Wisp Review/Early feedback

[(XBOX)Onyx Schnee]

Just now, deadstock said:

Absolutely.

The flower aesthetic is out of place with her current kit and I'm not a fan of how she places them, its a very slow playstyle.

Having beautifully animated flame effects like her 4, that orbit her would be far more preferable.  

on the topic of her 4, i love it.

 

i mean, it's heat....and a lot of posts here are complaining about it(side note, we need a language sense here that changes all curse words into -CLEM!-) but i personally love how her 4 looks and what it does.

[MagnumKnight]

38 minutes ago, deadstock said:

She's not designed to be a ghostly frame. Despite he name wisp being linked to ghost and will'o'the wisps, she is actually a portal based frame, according to the wiki and devstream. 

She opens portals connected to another dimension and projects different forms of energy from them as well as traversing between them. 

Her passive is her phasing between dimensions, hence her invisibility. 

Her 2 is her projecting an ethral version of herself with energy before traveling to it, via portals. 

Her 4 is literally a portal being ripped open and energy spilling out. 

Her 3 is more energy in an aoe, presumably summoned via portals. 

Only her 1 is out of place since she summons flowers. And as you said it is closely comparable to Vauban and titania's cycled and deployable abilities which are notoriously poorly designed. 

I believe the idea of a ghost based warframe was part of an earlier design, hence the name Wisp. But since then the concept ha change dramatically. 

do you have anything else to add other than trying to educate us on what she is now versus what honestly would have been, and what the community at large was hopefully expecting her to be and maybe  allowing us constructive conversation that could HOPEFULLY push for an even compromise? there's no saying that whisp can't use portals or what ever to do what we were hoping her to do, but we do expect some quality and consistency in that her abilities should still fit a certain thematic.

her flower pots should honestly be scrapped and maybe replaced with some kind of cc offensive ability, maybe fires a ball of plasma from a portal that on explosion, debuff/confuse and damage enemies, and unlike mirages discoball it doesnt do anything until explosion, and it doesn't bounce around, maybe make it move slowly? Seeing as whisps are sometimes believed to appear as balls of light, this would fit her theme and work with her abilities. perhaps make it slow moving and do to the enemies what Djinn does to them?

her two is fine, her 3 on the other hand, should be a buff, maybe an intangibility buff since that could work with portals, or some other kind of buff, just something to bolster her survival.

and finally her four, could still sorta work for a whisp, if they change it from the sun to the void, BUT the sun could still work, but it needs to hit harder than a truck because it is after all, the mother #*!%ing sun and it needs to be worth it.

Edited April 6, 2019 by MagnumKnight

[(XBOX)GearsMatrix301]

2 hours ago, DeltaPangaea said:

I don't know Evolve, so on a scale of 1 to Hildryn-Is-Literally-Zarya, how close is Wisp to Wraith?

About a 6

[(XBOX)Onyx Schnee]

1 hour ago, Maka.Bones said:

I do actually, though I'm not sure how they're going to link her "wisp" asthetic as a spirit, to the fire from her 4th. 

Maybe she's like a Firefox wisp or something

wisps, or will-o-wisps are fire spirits btw.

 

just saying.

 

that's why her 4 is fire based.

[Darena_Bryant]

After hearing how Wisp's skills work, I kinda felt that you guys had gotten a bit off theme with her in regards to how her abilities manifest. I had some ideas about them, so I figured I would put them here.

What I think you could do with Wisp to make her abilities fit more with her concept is to make her 1 summon actual wisps (like Cetus wisps, but each with a different appearance to represent what buff they give) that hover around her and convey those buffs to her. maybe even have those abilities shared with nearby party members within a certain distance.

This would also make her 3 more relevant, since the waves of damage it causes would overlap and increase the more wisps she had around her (up to 6). The balance for this is that summoning each wisp would either cost increasingly more energy-wise (possibly with a channeling drain), or impose some other weakness on her as a trade off, such as health or shields.

Each buff would affect an opposing thing: like if she has a health buff it would reduce damage or if she buffs shields, it would reduce energy, and vice versa. Getting them all out at once would require some effort, as the total cost of them all being summoned at once would be enough that someone souldn't just call them all out at once, but if she summons them all, then she'd be stronger over all than without any or only some of them. Keeping them all active at once would be a bit of a balancing act though, as she would need to keep some energy on hand to do so, but while she did, she would benefit her party and herself greatly.

As cheesy as it might sound, I feel like her 4 should open a portal to the Spirit Realm, or maybe to that part of the Void that reincarnated Vor and The Man In The Wall came from, releasing a swarm of spirits. These spirits would torment those around her by latching onto enemies and:

1. Confusing them into attacking nearby allies.

2. Doing damage over time, draining life directly, ignoring shields and armor.

3. Slowly drag enemies towards the portal. Any pulled into it are instantly killed. In the case of boss enemies or the like, they'd either be immune to the dragging, or take a certain amount of damage once in contact with the portal. A certain number of enemies (based on power strength) could be affected in this way, and once the portal closes, attached spirits would linger until the enemy they were attached to was killed.

I don't imagine the portal as having any positive affect on allies.

The spirits could be either simple will o wisps, or actual ghostly half tenno apparitions, similar to how Vor looks, just a trail of energy below the waist.

 

I'm not sure if these ideas are any good, but I feel like they're more 'on theme' with Wisp's ghostly seeming nature.

[Aldrr]

Gonna add my thoughts to the hat 🙂

#1: the idea that she can place down portals (reservoirs) that generate buff pickups (I'll just call these wisps too ^^) is a neat one.

• healing wisp: great, the frame has the means to regenerate health, independence, more viable for even solo plays
• CC wisp: awesome, enemies nearby get zapped and they can't attack you, especially useful against Infested, who prefer melee range
• speed wisp: faster map traversal (and penalty to enemy accuracy) 👍
• maaaaaybe add a fourth type that adds armor, or shields, or regenerates energy?

#2: basically a decoy, nice! Question is, how aggressively is the AI forced to follow the decoy? Does it only work on  a limited number of enemies, or everything in LoS immediately begin to track the decoy? It also helps with map traversal.

#3: Noticed that after the reservoirs were placed down they were... well, stationary, and the game has a lot of mobility involved. In their current form, the reservoirs are most useful when protecting an area (defense, mobile defense, interception). But from a distance, using #3 when you don't even know if it's worth it, just for one damaging pulse is... questionable(??)

Maybe a possible alternative: have Wisp's #3 teleport the reservoirs near her location, and turn them into mini turrets, that shoot projectiles, and send out the damaging pulse every couple seconds. When the ability expires, the reservoirs return to their original function (spawning "buff wisps") or disappear.

#4: Open a portal that links directly to the Sun, and channel superheated plasma forward as a particle beam?! What's not to like? 😂

Edited April 6, 2019 by Aldrr

[VVXRFRXME]

I love the fact DE admit vauban kit is out of content and need complete rework, then some minutes later, HEY LOOK at this cicle ability designed for Mobile defense and interception (Setup and Camp) ? Are you kidding me? i really feel insulted

 

i mean aside ivara 1 (ignore alam arrow) all other cycle ability are trash

[deadstock]

12 minutes ago, MagnumKnight said:

do you have anything else to add other than trying to educate us on what she is now versus what honestly would have been, and what the community at large was hopefully expecting her to be and maybe  allowing us constructive conversation that could HOPEFULLY push for an even compromise? there's no saying that whisp can't use portals or what ever to do what we were hoping her to do, but we do expect some quality and consistency in that her abilities should still fit a certain thematic.

her flower pots should honestly be scrapped and maybe replaced with some kind of cc offensive ability, maybe fires a ball of plasma from a portal that on explosion, debuff/confuse and damage enemies, and unlike mirages discoball it doesnt do anything until explosion, and it doesn't bounce around, maybe make it move slowly? Seeing as whisps are sometimes believed to appear as balls of light, this would fit her theme and work with her abilities. perhaps make it slow moving and do to the enemies what Djinn does to them?

her two is fine, her 3 on the other hand, should be a buff, maybe an intangibility buff since that could work with portals, or some other kind of buff, just something to bolster her survival.

and finally her four, could still sorta work for a whisp, if they change it from the sun to the void, BUT the sun could still work, but it needs to hit harder than a truck because it is after all, the mother #*!%ing sun and it needs to be worth it.

Just trying to be helpful, instead of you having to actually visit the wiki or watch the devstream, thought I would summarize, since there seemed to be a misconception of what wisp is. 

If you were expecting a spirit themed, ghostly frame then I'm afraid that ship has already sailed. 

When I first heard about her I expected the same and it was considered, but DE changed their mind, so now we have a portal based frame. 

[MagnumKnight]

8 minutes ago, deadstock said:

Just trying to be helpful, instead of you having to actually visit the wiki or watch the devstream, thought I would summarize, since there seemed to be a misconception of what wisp is. 

If you were expecting a spirit themed, ghostly frame then I'm afraid that ship has already sailed. 

When I first heard about her I expected the same and it was considered, but DE changed their mind, so now we have a portal based frame. 

And there is no saying that we all can't have discussion on what we, the fans would honestly like to see from her seeing as she isn't pushed out yet, we could still open up dialogue, and until she's actually playable in the game, there is no harm in voice concern. we already know and see what they made her into, we just want them to consider that there are other options than what they did to her. maybe her buffs might be good, but that doesnt mean we cant offer alternatives or maybe get them to see that putting buffs down like that is not, and will never be fun, the quiver style made vauban cumbersome and loathesome to use for much of the playerbase, and having to physically pick up her buffs makes her just as awkward and annoying as Titania. You telling us what she is now, isn't helpful, it's being captain obvious, and no one outside of southpark likes a captain obvious. so please, sit down, and with us, have constructive conversation.

Edited April 6, 2019 by MagnumKnight

[deadstock]

3 minutes ago, MagnumKnight said:

And there is no saying that we all can't have discussion on what we, the fans would honestly like to see from her seeing as she isn't pushed out yet, we could still open up dialogue, and until she's actually playable in the game, there is no harm in voice concern. we already know and see what they made her into, we just want them to consider that there are other options than what they did to her. maybe her buffs might be good, but that doesnt mean we can offer alternatives or maybe get them to see that putting buffs down like that is not, and will never be fun, the quiver style made vauban cumbersome and loathesome to use for much of the playerbase, and having to physically pick up her buffs makes her just as awkward and annoying as Titania. You telling us what she is now, isn't helpful, it's being captain obvious, and no one outside of southpark likes a captain obvious. so please, sit down, and with us, have constructive conversation.

I have voiced my complaints with wisp in multiple other threads, she's not perfect and I'm not a fan of half her kit. I wish she was more phantasmal than she has turned out.

You can ask DE to make her go through walls if you want. Or changer her name to Casper. I'm not stopping you and nothing I've said has suggested that. I simply stated that she is based around portals an energy projection. Unlike in previous concepts.

I don't see how that stomps on your desire to have her be more ghostly. Or prevents us from sitting down and having a constructive conversation. Its just available information for everyone who isn't aware of how she is currently. 

Unlike you there is a chance that someone else who visits this thread doesn't know. 

No need to get so passive aggressive.

[VVXRFRXME]

First i think the 1 & 3 ability need Some tweak or removed, as DE admit in the SAME stream vauban kit is out of content and need to be rework

 

 

but l'ets speak about the look of wisp ability:

 

1: totally out of context in my opinion Kit/and appearance , wisp was supposed to be Ghost themed frame then portal themed, and now? she is botanique themed frame? at least put a will o wisp or a lantern (orokin style) instead of this "flower"? look's like a bad PH 

2. look's good, fit both themed ghosty and portal, i just don't think why i would use this instead of bullet jump (unless with a decent range build the blind can affect a good amount of enemy)

3. the visual is ok, specially wisp animation, the synergy with 1 is fine, but the fact you must use her 1 in order to use her 3 , is not player friendly and bad designed, i think its should be a basic radial Aoe, AND if used with the 1, empowered  element or even combine to do another elemental dmg type 

 

4. this might look weird for a ghosty/ portal frame, but the fact she dont summon fire ball/sun but open portal to sun make sense , its well designed  not press 4 win, good looking, i just hope its does not deal heat dmg, (yes do you remember how trash is ember against armored or shielded enemy) make void dmg? (she use portal) or make it exalted and let us modding it this could even work for her 1/3 ability you could use a special build against each faction

Edited April 6, 2019 by Hex-Maniac

[TwilitAngel]

The whole portal thing is a bit off-putting to me, but it's whatever, DE likes to crush our expectations with randomness sometimes.
Being that she isn't a ghost/specter, I wonder what the explanation lore-wise how the frame ended up looking like that.
Being a portal frame, I see her 4 a bit more acceptable, but the 1 + 3 still seem like potential Vauban kit instead of hers.

[MagnumKnight]

1 minute ago, deadstock said:

I have voiced my complaints with wisp in multiple other threads, she's not perfect and I'm not a fan of half her kit. I wish she was more phantasmal than she has turned out.

You can ask DE to make her go through walls if you want. Or changer her name to Casper. I'm not stopping you and nothing I've said has suggested that. I simply stated that she is based around portals an energy projection. Unlike in previous concepts.

I don't see how that stomps on your desire to have her be more ghostly. Or prevents us from sitting down and having a constructive conversation. Its just available information for everyone who isn't aware of how she is currently. 

Unlike you there is a chance that someone else who visits this thread doesn't know. 

No need to get so passive aggressive.

It was less passive aggressive and outright aggressive and hostile and for that i do apologize but i think i saw you post the same thing in those other threads and honestly i do admit to losing my patience, and it just seems to feel of a defeatist attitude.Hostility isn't conducive to conversation, i know, and i apologize for my seething.that being said, honestly if enough noise is maybe DE will see and maybe, as it has happened in the past, make some changes that'll help her be far more fun.

[Genesix6]

I thought she was supposed to be a ghost frame. I mean she literally reminds me of ghostfreak.

And her ability doesn't reflect at all

Edited April 6, 2019 by Genesix6

[deadstock]

1 minute ago, TwilitAngel said:

The whole portal thing is a bit off-putting to me, but it's whatever, DE likes to crush our expectations with randomness sometimes.
Being that she isn't a ghost/specter, I wonder what the explanation lore-wise how the frame ended up looking like that.
Being a portal frame, I see her 4 a bit more acceptable, but the 1 + 3 still seem like potential Vauban kit instead of hers.

I would love to see a bit of lore behind her design as well, but I don't believe there is going to be any quest related to her parts, or back story which is a real shame. 

[Benour]

Its mashed up frame from apex/overwatch obviously. Her 4 is like from completely different frame/game. Cant wait to see everybody and theyr mother spamming her 4 like there is no tomorrow... 

Coolest thing about wisp is her passive. Yeah not hyped at all for this frame. 

IMMA FIRING MAH LAZOR. Just stupid imo. 

[MagnumKnight]

Just now, Benour said:

Its mashed up frame from apex/overwatch obviously. Her 4 is like from completely different frame/game. Cant wait to see everybody and theyr mother spamming her 4 like there is no tomorrow... 

Coolest thing about wisp is her passive. Yeah not hyped at all for this frame. 

IMMA FIRING MAH LAZOR. Just stupid imo. 

some one needs to S#&$post that face on whisps face pronto. it must be done for the lols.

[VVXRFRXME]

there is some "ghost" tenno or orokin i don't know on some Lua Tileset, they could be using this for your vision of her ult,

 

IMO her ult look good and fun, but for a portal/ghost themed frame we could have got better, like you say instead of opening a portal to the sun, she open one to the spirit realm or the void for unleash Ghost/Souls/will o wisp  W/e come from the Void or the Darkness 

[Vanille]

Her 4th is like that because of recent "meta". They even talked about it on stream. Do they want yet another full dps frame? full cc frame that they're trying to rework? Wisp is an okay ish support, cc and dps frame all in one, but master of none. That's fine. Not every warframe has to be have a full usueful kit in every single type of mission, that's why there is variety. She's gonna shine in less mobile modes, just like certain defensive frames, and that's not a bad thing at all, she's still gonna be viable on other mission types, just not as much as other frames focused for those.
The part I agree is, her 4th doesn't thematically fit her, the whole sun thing.

[deadstock]

16 minutes ago, Hex-Maniac said:

First i think the 1 & 3 ability need Some tweak or removed, as DE admit in the SAME stream vauban kit is out of content and need to be rework

 

 

but l'ets speak about the look of wisp ability:

 

1: totally out of context in my opinion Kit/and appearance , wisp was supposed to be Ghost themed frame then portal themed, and now? she is botanique themed frame? at least put a will o wisp or a lantern (orokin style) instead of this "flower"? look's like a bad PH 

2. look's good, fit both themed ghosty and portal, i just don't think why i would use this instead of bullet jump (unless with a decent range build the blind can affect a good amount of enemy)

3. the visual is ok, specially wisp animation, the synergy with 1 is fine, but the fact you must use her 1 in order to use her 3 , is not player friendly and bad designed, i think its should be a basic radial Aoe, AND if used with the 1, empowered  element or even combine to do another elemental dmg type 

 

4. this might look weird for a ghosty/ portal frame, but the fact she dont summon fire ball/sun but open portal to sun make sense , its well designed  not press 4 win, good looking, i just hope its does not deal heat dmg, (yes do you remember how trash is ember against armored or shielded enemy) make void dmg? (she use portal) or make it exalted and let us modding it this could even work for her 1/3 ability you could use a special build against each faction

That would actually be insanely strong if her 4 acted like a beam and modded using beam weapon mods. 

Everyone and their grandmother knows how strong beam weapons are atm after their rework. Having an exhaulted beam would be really unique. 

As well as stupidly powerful. 

 

Your post really succinctly highlights all the important aspects and shortcomings of wisps current design, at least in my opinion it does.

Good stuff.

Edited April 6, 2019 by deadstock

[Guest]

Still hate her 1. Would have prefered she just fire a CC ball of heat and radiation that burns and confuses people as it flies slowly forward (no final explosion). Ability wheels are annoying. Let her fire lots of them.

I kinda like the rest though. The 3 can be altered to simply detonate an area around the CC/damage balls and the 4 looks nice, actually. I am probably the only one who likes the four because Revenant's laser 4 disappointed me.

[Xhobract]

A commonly observed opinion when looking at reviews of some Warframe abilities like Revenant's or Garuda's 4th (state of first announcement, before the change) is that animation locking is always highly criticized (disables the parkour system, stops us from using our other weapons, etc...). While I personally like Wisps current 4, that is not to say we can't also make the people happy who, while liking to summon a freaking beam of the sun through a portal, would rather use their guns in the long run if having to choose between the two. So here's my proposal:

1. Keep the ability like it is right now as the base. Instead of completely replacing it with something different, give us the option to hold the 4th button input pressed after the initial summoning to ->
2. Make it deployable. A portal stays at the location of deployment that keeps firing the beam. Pressing 4 once from a neutral state would summon the beam as seen in devstream footage. Holding from neutral or while active would deploy and normal pressing again whether deployed or not would dispel it. How that deployment would exactly look like I'll outline in the following suggestions.

Personally wielding it should be incentivized by a faster damage ramp up compared to when deployed (it was somewhere stated that the damage against continuously attacked enemies will scale up IIRC.?). The most simplistic option to how deployment would look like is simply that the beam keeps firing from a portal in the direction the reticle was aimed at at the time. You could point it down a hallway that enemies keep coming from or use it perpendicular to enemies' direction to wall of wider areas.

Another more interesting way is inspired by Nidus' Link+Virulence interaction. While Nidus is linked to an enemy, Virulence also erupts from that enemy in the direction Nidus is aiming. So when you deploy Wisp's 4, it tries follow her aim and burn everything her reticle is aimed at. I say tries to because there propably should be a cap of how many degrees the beam can change direction per time interval to avoid having a giant erratically spasming laser on screen (Protect your eyesTM). Also, no self damage please :). I think that would be unique and also thematically fitting, and while I realise there's little hope any of this gets actually implemented I thank everyone who took the time to read this.

PS: Almost forgot: If not already the case, make here decoy usable while using her current 4th ability at the very least.

 

Edited April 6, 2019 by Xhobract

[MagnumKnight]

5 minutes ago, Datam4ss said:

Still hate her 1. Would have prefered she just fire a CC ball of heat and radiation that burns and confuses people as it flies slowly forward (no final explosion). Ability wheels are annoying. Let her fire lots of them.

I kinda like the rest though. The 3 can be altered to simply detonate an area around the CC/damage balls and the 4 looks nice, actually. I am probably the only one who likes the four because Revenant's laser 4 disappointed me.

god that sounds kinda fun. just her firing big sod off balls at enemies... honestly it would be neat if the balls did something similar to what Djinn does in making them come closer to the object... perhaps they get more damage the closer they are to it.

 

[Guest]

Just now, MagnumKnight said:

god that sounds kinda fun. just her firing big sod off balls at enemies... honestly it would be neat if the balls did something similar to what Djinn does in making them come closer to the object... perhaps they get more damage the closer they are to it.

That would be nice but DE never listens to us.

We are not allowed to have nice things. I am shooting off my mouth but you and I both know it won't happen 😂

[MagnumKnight]

1 minute ago, Datam4ss said:

That would be nice but DE never listens to us.

We are not allowed to have nice things. I am shooting off my mouth but you and I both know it won't happen 😂

god is that not just the truth... at the very least, as i stated earlier, if enough people grumble ATLEAST maybe something will change in her kit to not make her an ungodly mess... but lately DE seems to have this odd, horrifying trend of absolutely ignoring anything from players. i get sometimes somethings need to be ignored for progress to happen, but things like this, a closer eye on the community would be actually a good thing?