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Wisp Review/Early feedback

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1 minute ago, Benour said:

This frame should be called "mashed potatoes". Random skills/features mashed together.

Cant wait to see this huge ass laser in every mission, and i though simulor mirage was bad... 

DE we never intended to make nuke frames, proceed to make nuke frames.

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she is stealth when cast it, so enemy lost aggro , and invincible when teleport to it

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8 hours ago, peterc3 said:

Nothing like definitive statements on how awful a frame is to use when it isn't even out yet.

Which shows you didn't read it, since your comment is invalidated multiple times by disclaimers I've put throughout the thread:
A :

Quote

this will be really ranty and obviously all based on my opinion, so be warned.

B :

Quote

to me, as an outside viewer with no background information on her development outside of what you yourselves provide during the Devstreams

C :

Quote

Ok DE, I'm not saying the kit is terrible

 

As well as my complaints not going towards how awful or not the frame is to use, my complaints went majorly towards her design integrity, as seen with the very first line of the thread:

Quote

This isn't about her potential gameplay, it's about the presentation of her abilities in regards to what the frame is trying to be artistically, 

 

 

Also, I'm not asking for that either, at least not directly. As previously stated: It's about her visual representation. 

8 hours ago, peterc3 said:

Lots of people speaking about her abilities as if they have used her and not watched someone else play her, and not even in a situation with a serious player. People aren't asking for tweaks, but half her kit to be done over.

 

If her 1 was, let's say, a bunch of hands sticking out of the ground and her 3 would make those hands do something to cause the wave of damage to happen and her 4 wasn't a "portal to the sun" and instead a channeling of unnatural energies or something the likes, then it would have fit in just fine. 

Even with the portal theme, her passive, 1, 2 and 3 don't fit the portal theme, with the flower theme, her passive and 2 don't fit the flower theme, support theme, her 3 and 4 aren't support abilities, wisp theme, her 1, 3 and 4 don't fit the wisp theme, while visually, everything about the frame is shouting "imma ghost, be spooked".

The frame tries to be so many things at once instead of following a single theme and if you haven't noticed before, most of the popular frames follow a single theme consistently, be it Excalibur, the guy who is by name and gameplay all about hitting things with his sword, Mesa, where everything in her kit is about being a gunslinger or Ivara, where everything about her kit is centered around being the robin hood of Warframe.

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Posted (edited)
13 hours ago, Ver1dian said:

I feel her 1 will make or break her, not the buffs themselves, but the max duration and number, since if we can sustain a big number, coupled with her 3, will give saryns a run for their money in static missions.

You're comparing a small AoE stationary burst to... Saryn? ...What?

I think what you should compare her to is Octavia and her Mallet. She's the king of stationary missions, not Saryn.

 

12 hours ago, BombtailsTheFox said:

I feel her 1 will make or break her, not the buffs themselves, but the max duration and number, since if we can sustain a big number, coupled with her 3, will give saryns a run for their money in static missions.

16

Thanks for your constructive feedback! I was thinking of giving her the following stats:
- 400 Health
- 0 Shields
- 220 Armor
- 100 Energy
- 1.15 Sprint Speed

The absorb from the Ghost Flames would be infinite, so they'd consume shots until used up by using other abilities.

The 1 would scale according to how many Flames you have active at the time of cast. I should have added that, oversight on my part. The Corrosive Damage strips armor, the chance of stripping armor would work like Saryn's spores (the more strength you have, the more damage it deals and the higher the status chance).

The 2 has a DMG reduction cap of 75%, the same as Trinity's bless. Base DMG Reduction would be 50%.

The 3 deals medium amounts of Corrosive DMG, as stated above. It wouldn't be an instant nuke like Saryn's scaling spores, because that would simply be way too much. Ofc, it would be more efficient at killing large groups of enemies as long as corpses are nearby, but its primary use is its sustain, not the damage.

The 4 affects all enemies, as stated in my post. The sleep can, of course, be broken by other sources of damage. The damage isn't affected by whether or not the enemy is asleep. The ability would scale with power strength, but it would have a hard cap of 50% max HP damage (at around 300 power strength) and cannot be activated again before the burst of damage activates.

I wanted my concept to excel at high-level missions, survival being its best mode.

Edited by Flandre_Scarlet_
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2 hours ago, Hex-Maniac said:

hum i like the idea of "Ghost mode" make her viable late content, bc l'ets be honest, try to bring her her in arbitration survival grineer or corpus 30 min or more  if you don"t' camp, you will be dead at the first error, or aim bot spawn enemy (yeah i speak you naplam)

 

i was asking for an exhalted Beam for prevent elemental issues like ARMOR SCALING , but something like this will fit her well and give her more survivalbility + still focus to her first theme, and with another name could even fit portal theme

2 hours ago, Neptlude said:

Aye Ghost mode better

Glad you think so.

 

2 hours ago, Neptlude said:

Also if they really want to push the "portal" theme

her 1st skill should open portal like wormhole connecting 2 similar symbols together...

Something like the Wormhole from The Darkness 1 and 2 or the Bootic Power from mass effect comes to mind for such.

1 hour ago, greiff said:

My thoughts after reading few post and yours:

I still think her 1 should be a mobile instant cast of blessing or buff.... choose the buff with long press, then short press to release. If aim at nothing, self buff, if aim at ally, you buff them (heal, regen and speed), and if you aim at a foe, you do dmg to them (like the red buff will drain health, the blue buff with stun them, and the green buff will slow them) etc etc etc

I like her 2, but it needs to go faster, and longer duration. Also without repeating Titania's lantern of distracting foe, it should have an element of damage, say if it pass through a foe, it should do small amount of negative effect on them as well.... stun, life drain etc

Her 3 should be completely re-do. Think someone mention perhaps her 3 will instant blast her 1's blessing and do small aoe? say if she cast her 1 to an ally and a foe, by pressing her 3 it will just detonate those bless into a small aoe of the type.... So everything would be her waking time bomb?

Or her 3 will simply summon a black hole and suck foes in?

I like your "Ghost" idea for her 4: Goes into "phantom" mode, in a energy translucent state, with energy flares coming out of her. Her moving speed increase, and she can zip pass friends and foe. When she pass through a foe, she zap them with either a proc, a stun, or drain energy/armour; when she pass through an ally, it heals/take away proc, or buff them.

But having said that as we know Warframe at this stage, CC as a 4th ability on a frame is...less popular..... hence i thought if there are some damage in there might makes it more "functional"

 

Dont get me wrong, i agree her current 4 looks great, but just doenst fit her, and i guess perhaps DE were blind sighted (punds intended) by how pretty the animation looks 🙂

Yup!

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I've posted the same idea and feelings on my own topic, so yeah. Overall her powers don't fit and need an overall to make it more Ghost/Wispy like.

 

A lot of people liked my "Ghost" power, where she goes into her pocket world and can fly faster and deal with damage by touching or flying into mobs, bacily like Limbo's rift, but reverted in a way.

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Posted (edited)

Nah, I figured out Wisp's theme. Hear me out, guys.

Her actual theme is "Anime Waifu".

Now, before you throw all the insults like "weeb" and "lame", the explanation behind this is really simple.

Design wise - Wisp has the narrow shoulders and wide hips, like a girl from anime. Her bust size is in the right range as well.

The snaky movements and all, despite being fully corporeal ... Typical anime Lamia behavior.

Invisible on jumping? Hyperactive anime girl can glomp the protagonist from anywhere.

1st power - Ask yourself, what so weird about Giorno Giovanna.

2nd power - This one is obvious enough as the typical shadow clone/ Bleach Utsusemi

3rd power - Megumin Explosion/Fate rune magic/Mahouka active air mine.

4th power - Kamehameha/ Masterspark/ Kotori Meggido/Celica Arfonia Extinction Ray

Basically DE's aim is to make the most cliche animeframe over whatever serious concept. I mean it was so obvious but it didn't hit me from the start.

All your explanations are invalid now and she is perfect as she is.

I can't stop with the sarcasm and complaints, can I?

Edited by Datam4ss
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17 hours ago, Flandre_Scarlet_ said:

What makes him fun isn't just his kit, but also the ability to take any weapon you want to any mission in the game, regardless of enemy level

Aha... how is this NOT true for every single Warframe? Lol

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1 minute ago, (PS4)LoisGordils said:

Aha... how is this NOT true for every single Warframe? Lol

Well, if you want to get 1-shot, yes. Then it's true for every frame in the game. Can't use a weapon while you're dead, now can you?

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I don't worry about themes any more. Just make the frame not broken. 

Some of the early frames had an insect theme in addition to their "combat style". Mixing ghost with portal combat style isn't the worst match up they've had...

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8 hours ago, (XB1)Orcus Imperium said:

wisps, or will-o-wisps are fire spirits btw.

 

just saying.

 

that's why her 4 is fire based.

Yeah I actually just remembered that this morning too lol ^_^' (embarrassed)

 

Thanks though, just saying. 

 

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This frame looks nice and maybe her abilities would work well but nothing to do her ability design with ghosts or spirits. I am waiting for Flora since it was designed by mister pigman but it seems DE just lend one of her abilities and gave it to Wisp.

Sad because there is a lot of frame concepts with full ability sets and full models but yet they does not ask the permission to use an already built design and tweaking it to fit to the game but lend abilities from there, design from there and finally they make a mess.

I waited how this frame will be end but that is slightly dissapointing they have no idea what to make.

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16 hours ago, Circle_of_Psi said:

So, first of all, Wisp's design and her overall looks of her are great. The Floating and Feetless Frame, The Ghost/Phantom look is amazing. I just hope her walking/floating can work on all frames. but that's more than likely. 

Her powers, on the other hand, do need some change and overall tweaks. They are a great concept, but in terms of gameplay, don't quite fit the beach. Keep in mind I do share semi-same ideas to @CuteFoxyFox so props for him/her for sharing their own ideas.

 

Passive: Great!, perfect how it is, but perhaps had a small buff, so it has a tiny duration?

 

1. Reservoir: Cute Fox pointed out this quite well: stationary buffs that won't really help in any mission besides Defs/interceptions & Hijacks. Buff that require a player to backtrack is not gonna work in Warframe, no player will turn around from doing what they are doing to pick something up.  

New Reservoir: This now works semi-like Unairu Wisp, once cast the buff is applied to Wisp right away. Anyone with Affinity Range will also get the buff. However to prevent misuse or trolling players are able to remove the Buffs. They can Back-Dash. (Note: Due to her new 3, her 1st can be recast at any time, even if her 3 is used)

2.Light: Great power overall, However, a few QOL Fixes are needed.

New Light: The Travel Time is dependent on tap or held, Holding down will make it go longer and faster. a simple tap will make go shorter and slower. (Keep in mind, all will be faster then the dev stream shown). The Duration of the "Teleport" is much longer as well, giving players a chance to act on it before it vanishes. If the clone touches hostile, they will be stunned/damaged and have a Rad proc on them. If Wisp teleports with it, it explodes as she exits it and does a massive AoE knockdown. (Think of Biotic Charge from mass effect)

3.Harness: Like her 2, not useful outside the said missions. While allowing Wisp to blast them out herself is ideal. I think a new power is better.

New Harness (New Name: Seeker Swarm?/Harness Swam?): Wisp uses her Wisps as a projectile, they burst away from her and seek out targets and damages them and has unique debuffs on what Wisp is used. If Red is applied: It Leechs HP. If Blue is Applied: Weapons and Robots are disabled and leeches Sheilds. If Green is applied: Slows mobs down and leeches Engrey. 

 

Sun Portal: Belongs on Ember, nothing else to say about it. Fire Damage without something boost it is not useful and slows Wisp down (She's meant to be fast) and overall doesn't look right on her.

While I can't think of a "Great" replacement, I will just throw a few ideas.

4. Ascension: Wisp goes into "Ascension" mode, that acts like Maim, AoE damage of Rad. While in this mode her powers cost a bit more Efficacy, but deal more damage and last longer. She is much faster in this form as well. 

4. Ghost Mode: Pretty much her passive is always on. She travels into the Wisp Wold (into a Portal), works like Limbo's rift, but can't bring anyone into it. However, she can pass into mobs, that will deal damage

All I can think of, if you guys got better ideas, go for it.  

 

This is my overall feedback on her.

 

 

Psi.

I agree that her 4th is better suited on ember, but I wouldn't want her to have anything like main or limbo or what other warframes already have. 

 

Instead of making her 4th fire based, they should just change it to radiation or void based (make her harness the power of a quasar, instead of Sunny-D)

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Posted (edited)
52 minutes ago, (PS4)LoisGordils said:

Aha... how is this NOT true for every single Warframe? Lol

Because if you do that with most other warframes, you die in a second and that is that. I personally do not think that every frame has to be a tank master, but they should at least be sortie and arbitration viable, and with these stats, basically no survivability abilities and her kit suffering from a lot of Vauban's and Titania's issues (only Vauban at least has good CC) and making herself easy to hit with her ult... Yeah.

Basically, try going into the simulacrum as Revenant with a decent amount of lvl 110 corrupted, do NOT use his mesmer skin , use his ult and see how long you live. That is about how survivable Wisp is, only her beam is not even AOE but directed.

Then remind yourself of how annoying Titania's buffs are, and how unreliable decoy/charm abilities can be, and that is with abilities that actually stick around instead of being here this moment, gone the next.

Then think about how bad Vauban's traps are because they are stationary, and imagine having to use another ability that only procs damage from them. That type of thing works in MMO's (eg. Guild Wars 2, Scourge's sand shades) because of largely stationary enemies and in general less enemies at a time, but it does not work well in Warframe, which they admitted not even 10 minutes before when talking about why Vauban is due for a full kit rework.

Then add the fact that except for her 2 her other abilities are a complete flavour-fail, and you have the reason why I was so mad yesterday.

 

And as for posting it in GD... they have been ignoring feedback concerning frames (and on occasions weapons) for quite a while now, INCLUDING the design council, so it does not really matter where I post this.

 

Also here are some ideas I came up with in about 10 minutes for ways to fix some of the issues I see with her kit and how to fix the flavour, while still sticking as close as possible to DE's version even if I do not like it.

 

#1 : Keep it roughly the same, but change the flowers into small floating flames, and instead of having it be deployables make them hover around wisp and then split and attach themselves to allies withing a decently sized radius (so more like Oberons Rejuv); If they absolutely have to keep them as deployables, still make them into flames and give them a decently sized pick-up radius, eg. Oberon grasspatch, but unaffected by range, and make them drain-based instead of a timer.

 

#2 : One idea would be to make Wisp dash forward herself, and gaining intangibility (possibly percentage based) for a time after it, playing to the legends of will-o'-the wisps leading people astray. Current version is fine though.

 

#3 Get rid of it. It is the same design they are reworking Vauban for, why does this ability even exist?! To still keep it largely the same, have it pulse off of all frames that have the buffs on them , but I'd really rather have something that let's her survive in arbitrations and T3 sorties, be it a mist-cloak that gives damage reduction/chance to have attacks phase through her or a wide area CC+Damage ability,or something that makes her float so she becomes invisible via her passive.

#4 Depends. If her 3 gives survivability, reflavour it as channeling a ghostly flame instead of the sun, and make sure it scales decently. If she does not get additional survivability, get rid of it or add survivability onto it, because she becomes a sitting duck while using it.

 

Subject to change, as I said that was just ideas I could come up with within 15 minutes.

Edited by ShikiRen
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I pretty much completely disagree with everyone about her 1 btw. YOU CAN TAKE THE BUFF WITH YOU. If people can't wait one second to grab it, then they don't need it. Their fault, not wisp's

 

Every warframe Is starting to feel the same, because every warframe is doing a slightly different thing but in the same way.... Just with different colors. Your thread is basically asking to make her feel like every other warframe. 

 

I don't want that. 

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Im not thrilled about the visuals for the ultimate. I can see being easily frustrated when I get capped from something occluded on the left of the screen when I’m trying to fire at the right of the screen. The flare/portal/atomic fireball in front of the frame just looks like it will block too much visible real estate. 

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Posted (edited)

Why? Why do you guys want to turn her abilities into something that already exists?

 

Most of the negative feedback I read is "nah make this more like this other power, this warframe already has"

Why can't she just have her own thing? Like why is it such a bad thing that people need to "pick something up"? Lmfao

 

Most missions require you to stay in a general area... Even open world combat stays pretty static. So the things I'm seeing complaints about just seem like petty nitpicking to me. 

 

Please prove me wrong... Enlighten me... or at least come up with a change that a warframe *DOESN'T* already have. 

Edited by Maka.Bones
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I will be the wet blanket and say the 4 is awesome. It just is and makes Wisp into the Photokinesis frame I always wanted.

The 1 is the only problem because an ability wheel doesn't fit on a frame that is about mobility, breaking LoS and overall glass cannon behavior. Sure, the Tanky Rhino can stop to pick up the buffs, but not Wisp herself. Also, selecting the abilities is a pain. You have seen people ignore booben's 2. Because Booben cannot afford to take his own sweet time. This is a luxury only Ivara has.

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Posted (edited)
3 minutes ago, Datam4ss said:

I will be the wet blanket and say the 4 is awesome. It just is and makes Wisp into the Photokinesis frame I always wanted.

The 1 is the only problem because an ability wheel doesn't fit on a frame that is about mobility, breaking LoS and overall glass cannon behavior. Sure, the Tanky Rhino can stop to pick up the buffs, but not Wisp herself. Also, selecting the abilities is a pain. You have seen people ignore booben's 2. Because Booben cannot afford to take his own sweet time. This is a luxury only Ivara has.

Same about her 4

 

I actually like the variety, and change of pace that her ability wheel offers though

Wisp might still easily be able take the time to place & pickup buffs, if you're using her decoy effectively

Edited by Maka.Bones

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2 hours ago, Benour said:

This frame should be called "mashed potatoes". Random skills/features mashed together.

Cant wait to see this huge ass laser in every mission, and i though simulor mirage was bad... 

I can already see how they will "nerf" the laser brightness or something lol

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I just want her current Sun ultimate to be relocated on Ember and for her new ultimate to be an enemy-possesion type deal.

Is that too much to ask?

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I was honestly confused as to why they assigned Wisp to being a supposed "portal" frame when the rest of her kit doesn't seem to indicate that at all. She has magic flowers and ghostly phasing powers, and then all of the sudden she has a pocket portal to the sun. Uh, okay.

Aside from that she seems kind of... clunky. It's just a a Frankenstein's monster of ideas that don't mesh together. She has mobility advantages but also has abilities that encourages defensive stationary gameplay. She has a passive that makes her invisible in the air but her 4 glues her to the ground and makes her vulnerable.

I just don't understand what they're going for here. It's all a mish-mash.

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Posted (edited)
4 minutes ago, (PS4)LeBlingKing69 said:

I just want her current Sun ultimate to be relocated on Ember and for her new ultimate to be an enemy-possesion type deal.

Is that too much to ask?

I like her 4, and I wouldn't want *ANOTHER* possession type ability. 

 

Will-o-Wisps are fire spirits... Makes sense that her 4 is fire related. (But sunny-D does seem like something ember would've liked)

 

Ember and will-o-WISP could have really cool team synergy

Edited by Maka.Bones
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Posted (edited)

The only complaint that I've seen that is valid in my eyes is that her powers don't really fit the expected "Ghost" theme, (which is something that was never stated by DE, mind you).

When you think of her theme as pulling things through space to where she needs them, it makes a lot more sense. Also matches her visual "incompleteness". Personally, I always saw her design as being more "Eldritch" than "Ghostly".

5 minutes ago, (PS4)LeBlingKing69 said:

Is that too much to ask?

Considering the amount of animation work needed for such a thing, yes.

Edited by Corvid
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1 minute ago, Maka.Bones said:

Wisp can easily take the time to place & pickup buffs, if you're using her decoy effectively

You have seen how effective decoys are when there is no Invis. Saryn proves as much when nobody shoots her molt. Nobody shoots Chroma's pelt over shooting Chroma. Nobody shoots Loki's decoy if Loki is still waving his big stick around and going "atatatata!"

Yeah, Wisp can throw out her 2 and jump to go invis but the moment she lands to pick up the buff from the current 1 all the Crewmen and Lancers going to be "swiggity swaggity I am coming for that booty". It's ok on starchart but on things like Toxin Sortie or beyond you probably wouldn't want that when getting clipped by one bullet = dead.

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