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ShikiRen

Wisp Review/Early feedback

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Reworking vauban because of his stationary gameplay and releasing wisp...huh. 

Passive : amazing, invisibility mid-air means no enemy can target you.

1st ability : Trash, no matter how strong the buffs will be no one wants to deploy a reservoir pick up the buff then play tactically when you can just kill everything with good frames/weapons.

2nd ability: takes aggro, would have prefered a wisp ghost figure/illusion thing but that would be Loki decoy ... oh wait her 2 is basically loki's decoy with its augment. For me this ability is useless but can save you in a couple of situations.

3rd ability: trash, no one wants the strategic gameplay when the pace of the game is so fast.

4th ability: fun,cool, but trash. Unless you give Wisp an invulnerability or damage reduction in it using it in high-level would be suicide, also it restricts your movements...

So for me Wisp's kit does not make sens whatsoever with the ghost theme the frame has, outside of its passive all of the abilities except maybe her 2 feel like abilities with no sense, you are supposed to be a ghost that draws the power from the sun.... and plants reservoirs that give you buffs and can emit a radial wave of energy ?????????

I was so looking forward to wisp but i guess it's just MR fodder, oh also if you disagree with me just re watch the devstream, after showing off her abilities Rebecca never used 1-3 again, and used 4 just for the looks and her 2 for reallyyy easy parcour maneuvers (useless). I hope they completely rework her kit asap and i know it is hard to do but come on, you are telling me a whole team of people working on her abilities could not come up with better ideas in 8 hours ? 2 hours ? I saw the abilities and realized it was bad in less than 3 minutes -_- . 

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Posted (edited)

the only ability she has that is remotely ember like is the fire laser and then only because it does fire damage. 

 

Edit: they should change it to radiation just to ruin that for you

Edited by Solarsyphon

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For Reservoir, maybe it would be faster pace if all reservoirs can change their buffs on the fly when Wisp cycles through them, kinda like Venari's modes.

You just plop down reservoirs at key points and change the buff type as you need them.

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People(and devs) keeps saying portals portals but there are no visual portals. Its basically same as vauban's balls/trap and Octavia's stuff, are those 2 frames also a portal frame?

Passive Skill:

Has no connection to portals, its more of bending the light...

 

1st skill

The pods just appear in her hands, at least show a portal opening above and dropping it.

And if they want to keep pushing the "portal theme"; once 2 symbols are active those 2 pods will act as an actual portals allowiing players to travel between them like nova's wormhole(which is an actual portal)

The floating symbols tho fit in for a wisp theme

 

2nd skill

Again not an actual portal... (fits well tho as a wisp theme) 

 

3rd skill

Still not portals (I dont mind this skill tho)

 

4th skill

Muh sun beam?! Stretching the portal thing really thin, but again not visually a portal.

they could atleast add a visual portal where the beam shoots out of it. also since its the sun there should be a gravity pull going on...

 

Overall I really like her frame visually, but her skills does not show its a portal frame...

 

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Posted (edited)

i think they will change the fact the reservoir get put with warframe position, instead of crosshair aiming, after read ton of wisp thread and complain this is the main issue i see the most, with the design of flower pots, btw i d'ont remember but did they give a date for gas city/wisp release? if i remember correctly new war is in 2 month so they might go fast? perhaps its gonna be [DE]layed again

Edited by Hex-Maniac

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Nova and Limbo are more portal themed than the "Portal Frame"

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1 minute ago, Eklectus said:

Nova and Limbo are more portal themed than the "Portal Frame"

This

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Posted (edited)

while i enjoy her abilities i to am honestly baffled by her theme some how being portal and not having a single ability that does this.  

her 4th and 2nd ability look the most thematic and fun.

5 hours ago, (XB1)GearsMatrix301 said:

Just like Revenant.

 

inbound for the next frame being more wisp then wisp just like garuda was more vampire then revenant 

 

 

Edited by hazerddex
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On 2019-04-05 at 12:40 PM, ShikiRen said:

So, just saw the Wisp ability reveal and I have to ask : DE, are you even capable of learning from past mistakes?

 

Because Wisp has the absolute worst ability of every type, so bad that her PASSIVE is the best her kit has to offer.

#1 : Deployables which almost nobody likes, that also have to be collected like Titania's buffs which, guess what, almost nobody likes.

#2 : The worst type of cc and in the worst possible implementation for it. Coupled with a teleport which is useless since bullet ujmps do a better job.

#3 : A damage ability centered around her deployables, which not only goes COMPLETELY against the philosophy you decided on reworking vauban with, your damage abilities that are not the exalted type are notoriously bad.

#4 : And number 4, another take on the Revenant-ult-type which nobody effing likes because you are stuck in the animation not using anything else, the damage usually sucks, and you tried to put that ability on 3 of the last 4 frames for crying out loud.

On top of that, her stats mean she will be completely useless due to dying in 1 hit in anything above lvl 60.

 

 

who's this nobody you speak of?  speak for yourself not for others.

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As a minor suggestion I'd like the amount of enemies in the vicinity of the reservoirs to be displayed on the UI so you know how effective her 3 will be. That said I'd be very interested in how her 4 scales to higher levels.

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1 hour ago, hazerddex said:

who's this nobody you speak of?  speak for yourself not for others.

I mean Titania, the one being compared to in the post is used about 0.5% on average. Vauban, Titania, and Wukong all are the least used frames and each variously suffers from some problem that Wisp will also suffer from, causing them to be unpopular. Nobody is a hell of a statement but half of a percent is like margin of error type numbers. Nobody plays Titania to use her buffs, not even now. She literally has a functional 4 now, and for the longest time her energy pool made using the ability properly unfeasible. I have little doubt we will see her totems as often as you get fireball frenzy from an Ember: only at the beginning of a mission and only if you stick around. After that, who could be bothered? Are they going to be vastly better than dropping pizzas? 

1 hour ago, (XB1)SirMilkfiend said:

As a minor suggestion I'd like the amount of enemies in the vicinity of the reservoirs to be displayed on the UI so you know how effective her 3 will be. That said I'd be very interested in how her 4 scales to higher levels.

Like really? Do you suppose you are going to care when you can 4 them with the might of the sun? Bare minimum the set up of one totem 25 energy + one nova 75 energy=one ult 100 energy. You want all 3 buffs? that's 150 energy. Want to change where the ability damages from, another 25 energy. Why go through this effort when you can press 4 and turn to look at enemies? Go through a defense mission with Mirage, use only your 2 (sleight of hand) and defend with only that ability til round 5. Then reset and do the same thing with her 4(prism). Then come back and talk about having two nukes in a kit, one being based on where you drop a mine, and one being an aim able laser of doom. Fun bonus: Wisps ability will cost 50% more than sleight of hand.  

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12 hours ago, (PS4)wintersfrozen said:

It might be nice to see her 1 become dependent on location. Example where your aiming is where it will appear. Her 3 could also be centered on herself as the main target with secondary damage coming from the nodes of her 1. This might allow people to just use her 3 if they wanted or those wanting to utilize the set up of her 1 to stack damage in an area. 

Having her 4 do something to add to her kit and synergies would be nice. A possible idea that comes to mind would be to have it relate to her two in some way. (though I'm not sure how)

I was more talking about it being a cycle ability that requires a hold to cast.  Basically exactly like Vauban's minslayer ability.  I play with a controller and this cramps my hand to do repeatedly.  So that's my issue with her 1st ability.  My synergy idea for hitting her decoy with her 4 would be to have it cause the effect Whisp does when she teleports to her decoy.  But without teleporting to it.  So she'd cause her decoy to explode for a stun and blind.

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11 hours ago, Yousho said:

Literally none of her abilities apart from her passive seem to make any sense or have any cohesion at all. Judging by none of the recent frames actually being good...are DE just churning crap out at this point? 

Garuda and Hildryn are great...?

Baruuk is okay.

Khora and Revenant were the ones that weren't that good. What are you talking about lol?

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1 minute ago, (PS4)ArtPrince17 said:

Garuda and Hildryn are great...?

Baruuk is okay.

Khora and Revenant were the ones that weren't that good. What are you talking about lol?

10/10 this guy is high.

Khora and Revenant are actually not that bad. Especially Khora who is quite legit.

Garuda may appeal to those people who love pressing all 4 buttons all the time but she is clunkier than you think.

Hildryn is ... not even close to great. Having 1 excellent skill (her 2) does not make her good at all.

Baruuk is a mixed bag.

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I will start off with saying that i am not a fan of the current powerset we have seen for wisp, it seems like a cool powerset... But not for wisp. If it was put on a shamanistic themed warframe, or her 4 was put on ember instead, i would be all for it.

My vision for Wisp was always a "ghost" themed warframe, as such the abilities i'm about to suggest is themed around that, meaning a stealth/disruption oriented warframe.

 

Passive: Invisible while in the air (This is her current passive, and fits IMO)

1: "Ghost Hunt" Turn Wisp invisible, and cause her to drain a flat % of nearby enemies health pr second, working similar to Ivaras "pick pocket" skill, but draining health instead. meaning it deals damage and heals Wisp. The ability would be channeled, as for the health drain i'm thinking 1%/1,5%/2%/2,5%. I'm thinking the damage would not alert enemies either (But it "would" obviously alert nearby enemies if they see a corpse, as pr normal.) - This ability would give Wisp a bit of self sustain and some slow damage, but it keys into later abilities, and it also fits the theme of a ghost "hungering for life energy"

2: "Spreading Dread" Wisp slows enemies in an area around her, and make them vulnerable to damage. A duration based AoE debuff. It alerts enemies, and gives them a slow/damage vulnerability scaling with power strength. Also enemies inflicted with her 2 will take double damage from her 1. - I think this would help since being invisible she could position herself to hit many targets with this with relative little danger. 

3: "Spectral Journey" Wisp turns into a mote of energy (A Will'o'wisp) and rapidly zooms to where the cursor was pointed when the ability was used. Where she will fade into the wall/cealing/floor, similar to Hydroids puddle ability. While there she will be untargetable, and will slowly drain her energy. Holding down the aim button will cause her torso to pop out of her hiding spot, and allow her to cast abilities or shoot her guns, but it will also reveal her and make her vulnerable to damage as pr normal. If her 3 is used while aiming from a hiding spot, she will zoom to a new one and resume hiding there. If her 3 is pressed while inside of her hiding spot, she will leave the hiding spot. If her 1 is active enemies who walk close will have their health drained, and she will be invisible when aiming. - This ability is similar to how ghosts can normally phase through walls, and seems like it would make for a good mobility/defense tool with a "stealthy" feel, and with a silenced weapon it can allow wisp to stealthily take out many enemies, rather than relying on melee.

4: "Ghostly possesion" Similar to her 3, Wisp turns into a mote of energy and shoots at high speed at an enemy, upon impact wisp will take control of that enemy and "hide" inside them. Similar to her 3. Wisp can control the enemy's movement while in this state, and nearby enemies will not be alerted to her presence, she can walk through security doors without triggering them. from this form she can use her other abilities, using her 1 causes her only to drain health however, and does not turn the posessed enemy invisible, and her 2 will alert enemies, but not to her presence. pressing the aim button causes the enemy to raise their weapon, and Wisp's torso to appear hanging on to their back with her own weapon raised, aiming over their shoulder, if her 1 is used she will be invisible. This will alert enemies watching, shooting wisps's weapon also causes the posessed enemy to fire theirs. Pressing the melee button causes the posessed enemy to use its own melee attack. Pressing 4 while posessing an enemy will cause Wisp to burst out, Dealing a flat 50% health damage to the enemy she was posessing (scaling with power strength), if this kills the enemmy it also explodes in a radial damage AoE. - This ability to posess and control and enemy feels very "ghostly" to me, but it might be hard to program into the game. I however feel this is more fitting than a sunbeam.

 

I dont know if this will reach DE, but i hope it will, and i hope they will at the very least reconsider the skills they have currently given Wisp, as i feel they do not fit her overall look or theme at all.

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When I heard that we were getting a ghost frame I was glad to see this because this was a concept I wanted to see and I wanted it to focus around stealth and maybe damage, however, only her passive and her 2nd ability takes the idea of being stealthy.

Here are my opinions of each of her abilities and some suggestions for her the abilities.

·       All abilities can be used on the move

1st ability:

I like that you can pick and choose what buffs you want.

Suggestions;

·       When picking up wisps, make them visually translucent by the wisp`s energy colour looking like there are invisible, doing this will make it visually less annoying to look at.

·       Wisps should be shown on the screen as a (translucent) waypoint for allies to see to locate them and pick them up.

·       For the other buffs I would like to see an increase status chance buff (which works on weapons and warframe abilities), 100% viral buff (on weapons) and an increased range/ increase damage fall-off buff (range for melee & damage fall-off for guns).

·       Speed buff should also increase manoeuvring speed. (jumps, bullet-jumps, dodging)

·       The stun buff should have an 80% chance to stun enemies. It should also show the radius of the stun buff.

 

2nd ability:

I like this ability. It really fits her theme well and for the fact that you can also use it to be invisible as well.

Suggestions;

·       Make decoy agro 100% of the enemy’s attention.

·       Since it`s a ghostly decoy, make it be able to bypass closed doors, obstacles, grates, laser doors, enemies and magnetic doors and (if possible) wall

·       Teleporting refreshes her glide time.

·       This synergizes with some of the 1st ability buffs and changes its purpose. Speed buff can increase its movement speed, the viral buff will make it seek out enemies, infecting them with viral damage, the range buff in increase its stun range and the stun buff will open enemies up to finishers after teleporting.

 

3rd ability:

This ability synergising with the 1st ability is interesting and strategic however, I don`t know if it can be used without it synergising it with her 1st ability.

Suggestions;

·       When used with 1st ability, it can spread the following damage types;

- Health buff spreads toxin damage targeting their health.

- Speed buff spreads ice damage slowing enemies down or freezing them.

- Stun buff spreads electric damage stunning them in the process.

- Viral buff releases viral damage.

- Status buff releases corrosive damage which also makes them Susceptible to all damage types.

- range/dmg fall-off buff releases blast damage which will decrease damage done to allies the further they are from them.

·       You can use this ability by yourself and dish out the damage with whatever 1st ability you activated.

·       If you use the ability without activating any of the 1st abilities, it will do raw damage to enemies.

·       Using this ability in the air will change its functionality. If used in the air, it will revert alerted enemies into being unalerted.

 

4th ability:

I must admit, visually this ability looks nice, however, this ability doesn`t fit her theme, this is the only ability that reflects the “opening up portals” idea and this is something that fits revenant more than wisp.

Suggestions;

·       Make it to where you can aim while using it.

·       Make it leave behind a fiery trail for a short duration.

·       This ability synergises with 1st ability. This ability can move faster after picking up the speed buff, viral buff is added to damage, status buff increases the ability’s status chance to proc fire damage.

 

However if it was up to me, I would like to see a different 4th ability that fits her ghostly theme either she produces more spectres to fight alongside her, she turns into a bigger ghostly form where she fights using homing attacks, her claws and some other powers or better yet make her have the ability to possesses enemies where they each offer different stats e.g. heavy gunner gives increase fire rate, infested gives increased attack speed which can be used for stealth.

To end this off I think DE needs to go back and re-look at her abilities to make them fit her theme more. Her 1 is good but I hope the buffs are worth it and won`t turn out like Titania’s 2nd abilities which was and still is underwhelming, I like her 2, her 3 needs to do more than what I saw it do and IMO she needs a better 4th ability that fits her theme like some of the suggestions I made and I think she should be more of a stealthy frame.

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@Sekan I like it, you went the same way I did with my own suggested redesign. I do worry that while the flavor and utility is spectacular (new tools everywhere yay!) most would still be less than optimal most of the time. I like that you also wrapped the buff/debuff into an easy to use ability. Feels a little complex, but better than current. 

1 hour ago, (PS4)ArtPrince17 said:

Garuda and Hildryn are great...?

Baruuk is okay.

Khora and Revenant were the ones that weren't that good. What are you talking about lol?

Now for things like all this. It's almost not fair to lop them all in this boat. Sure mechanically speaking each has concerns, but by and large they have an image. Their abilities reinforce that image. Wisp doesn't even get that. Just watched a Khora carry team through 14 rounds arbitration. She is, at least good. Lost a lot of her thematic luster when they couldn't tie her to damage 3.0, sure, but as current she kinda reminds me of when whipspin was meta. Garuda and Hildryn are both welcome, if a few of their abilities leaves much to be desired. Revenant has some real issue in that he has the odd parts of some of the best frames but does none of it well enough to write home without a good amount of focus and effort. Barruk does some interesting stuff that turns out is not really the meta at the moment. He has an impressive skillset, they just don't wreck everything on screen in one button so I guess he doesn't appeal unfortunately.

Granted not sure how DE is supposed to respond to both: "Please don't make her 4 to win" and "Warframes are useless unless they press 4 to win". I mean that's all she basically has, a 4 that as long as they make it do similar damage to other nuke abilities, will probably upset a good number of players who have to wait for enemies to spawn to use their abilities. If that's all that is necessary then she will be great, and may explain the design philosophy that lead to her proposed abilities.

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1 hour ago, Datam4ss said:

10/10 this guy is high.

Khora and Revenant are actually not that bad. Especially Khora who is quite legit.

Garuda may appeal to those people who love pressing all 4 buttons all the time but she is clunkier than you think.

Hildryn is ... not even close to great. Having 1 excellent skill (her 2) does not make her good at all.

Baruuk is a mixed bag.

Hmm... difference in opinion. Revenant and Khora are both thematically all over the place. Bad wording on my Khora and Revenant thoughts. They used to be worse, however they're now okay. Khora has the problem of just having wasted ability slots (Ensare and Strangledome could just be one ability so we could have the whip, Venari shouldn't need to switch between modes) and Revenant is just super clunky (super clunky Thralls, Mesmer Skin is unreliable, and both of those aren't even thematic to Sentients).

Garuda is pretty good. All of her abilities support another aspect of Garuda, and all of them have great effects. Hildryn is also super powerful and basically has infinite energy. Great support, damage dealer, tank, and okay at crowd control. Not exactly sure where you're coming form with you stance on these two, but I have to disagree.

Baruuk would be much better if the meta was different though.

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@Datam4ss Making this quick so I can get to who the thread is about. Hildryn is my go-to for Arbitrations because ALL her abilities are great. 1 does the big hurt, 2 good for tanking or armor shredding, 3 is basically free better Phoenix Renewal and 4 is excellent CC that also generates energy!

The #1 important thing I don't want to have happen to Wisp is for her to get the Revenent treatment of the DE suddenly having to pivot towards a specific theme to only to get half-baked abilities. "But hey at least they make sense!" If DE can manage to release Wisp with thematic changes AND fun abilities then I'm all for it but I do want to play her as she is right now. I will however go into an ability breakdown of what changes I would make.

Reservoir: Let Wisp cast it at a distance and let the buffs be picked up from range, either with a ring to indicate range or let teammates shoot them to get buffs they don't already have! Honestly Titania should be able to shoot-to-receive her buffs as well, or have razor flies be able to grab them for her,

Light: I love it. Gimme an augment that makes it a Dishonored style blink though. Instant travel with a preview of where you'll land when held.

Harness: This one is weird. I think this is the big one that should be changed so pay this the greatest mind - Harness should summon little fire sprites(wisps, y'know)! Wisp gains a fire sprite for her and every reservoir active that attacks either where she's aiming or in a radius around her. How they attack is kinda like Summon Aery from League of Legends, you hit something, the sprite flies out and tackles that something or something near, then returns to the user. If you're not attacking they just go ham in a radius around you. They at least proc fire and if they tackle a flaming target it gets knocked down. Augment that makes Reservoir-spawned sprites either defend that Reservoir or they follow whoever has that buff.

Sol: This. Ability. Needs. To. Exist. I don't even care if it's on Wisp or not, it needs to be implemented. People complaining about it's lack of mobility can't seem to remember that if they want to kill things of the move: Pretty much every weapon IN THE GAME outclasses Warframe abilities in terms of damage potential, with the best abilities being Exalted weapons. I think that is a huge problem in Warframe that so few frames actually matter more than platforms to carry the real stars of the show, your Rivened up Arca Plasmor. That's all I have to say about Sol. It needs to be in the game no matter how it gets there. It's cool, it's powerful, it's fun. Pick any frame in this game, equip your scanner and just play using abilities and tell me if you had fun. Now pick a mission above level 40 and stop lying to yourself.

I think Warframes should be designed like there are no weapons except maybe their signature one in the game. If you can play and have fun without drawing iron than it's probably a pretty good frame.

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So just some early thoughts for improvement.

Her 1 is simple enough to fix. 

Have her 1 automatically give her the buff upon cast and have the reservoirs follow her around.

Her three explodes from her and these reservoirs placing and renewing the buffs on allies and herself.

This gives combo abilty to her 1,2, and 3 letting her bounce around the map blind and explode enemies.

Her 4, while cool as all hell already seems to have some movement restricting abilities to it and seem out of theme for her despite the fluff. The crunch simply Doesn't fit. Instead I feel like she needs something else.

My thoughts are to have something based on a combination of her first three. Where every current reservoir on her releases a ghost in separate directions that seek out enemies and explode on them for her 3's damage times the number of active reservoirs and blinding them. As with her 2 you can target them, hit 4 again and teleport to them.

As of her current form shes spread apart too many directions. She's slow and passive with her 1, mobile with her 2, and passive again with her 3. Her 4 then comes out of left field and makes her into nuker with no real synergy.

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On 2019-04-05 at 3:50 PM, ShikiRen said:

Wrong. That is what happens when people get lazy. A friend of mine came up with better frame concepts in 30 minutes. More synergy, more varied kit, a lot more usable and scales well into any content. *sigh*

Then why don't you and your friend apply to DE and take care of future Warframes development? It's sure easy to come up with an original idea that's fun AND effective without breaking the game, make a model that is within the game's aesthetic and that pleases 100% of the players, including the ones that think can make a better job, all that with a deadline. *sigh*

But I agree with you, Wisp's kit feels very similar to Revenant and Titania kit, just all over th place and not very rational, considering her theme and the game's "fast paced" action.
Placing stationary buffs that can be picked up, having to micromanage them and lock an ability to that is 100% a bad idea. Her 2 is a gimmick, not useless but there are indeed much better ways to make something with portal theme'd and more useful. Her 4 is where you can see, the team that developed her didn't lerned from Revenant and pre-release Garuda feedback and the past changes to kill "press 4 to win" tactics.

I can see her being a disappointment if she launches in that state, but you don't need to act like a pp and ditch their work like they came up with Wisp's concept out of nowhere. They are people just like us, and there is multiple examples that the teams is often fragmented. A Warframe concept is a conjunction of ideas and changes, see Khora's for example, she was supposed to be Spider or Web themed, then she turned into a IPS themed with an exalted whip, and now she's a cat sadomasochist lady.

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5 hours ago, (PS4)ArtPrince17 said:

Garuda and Hildryn are great...?

Baruuk is okay.

Khora and Revenant were the ones that weren't that good. What are you talking about lol?

Garuda is pretty cool, but I wouldn't exactly say she's great or even very good. Hildryn doesn't *do* anything, neither does Baruuk. Both just survive, and they don't even do that as well as some other frames who also bring more to the table. 

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9 hours ago, (XB1)Knight Raime said:

I was more talking about it being a cycle ability that requires a hold to cast.  Basically exactly like Vauban's minslayer ability.  I play with a controller and this cramps my hand to do repeatedly.  So that's my issue with her 1st ability.  My synergy idea for hitting her decoy with her 4 would be to have it cause the effect Whisp does when she teleports to her decoy.  But without teleporting to it.  So she'd cause her decoy to explode for a stun and blind.

I don't mind the cycle threw the different casts but I can see the issue. Lots of people hate the cycle from one to another hence why I suggested (perhaps it was a different thread) a preset. Each tower has the option to give the buffs 1-3 depending on the wisps you currently have on you. The order they would be given would be 1- heath, 2 -CC, and 3-Speed. Going to each would grant you the next buff in the chain or replace which ever buff had timed out.

That feels a bit lack luster of an ability to replace what her 4 currently is. (though I will say it does sound better then the stupid laser beam so there is that.)

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