Wisp Review/Early feedback

[(PSN)wintersfrozen]

17 hours ago, F8ted said:

@(PS4)wintersfrozen I was excited for it with Ivara. It sucks. Thought maybe it would add utility to Vauban. It did not. With Wisp, it's not even a choice. Optimally you would have all 3 buffs up all the time. That's 3 uses of the ability just to start the mission. You don't just get to pop cloak arrow when you feel like, you get to use all 3, consecutively, while your team waits for you to drop the buff. Kind of like World of Warcraft's Shaman totems used to be. That's it! That's where I've seen this kit before! It's WoW shaman complete with totems, astral projection, flame nova, and Lava Burst! At least WoW did eventually make them all drop at once, and shamans had like 20 abilities not 4... 

Hence why I suggested the concept of the ability granting a buff chain. It will grant heath, then CC then speed in that order. Any of her 1 can grant any in the chain rather then cycling threw to get from Heath to CC to Speed. This would still allow you to have all 3 buffs at a time, and it would allow you to go to any of the wisp pods to renew your buffs. It would just be in a chain. theoretically this would remove the need to cycle threw as all pods would provide the same and remove the much hated "hold to cycle" aspect that people have with Vauban. You would still need to "straggly place" your 1 but it would be less about doing so for the buffs and more for the benefit of using the 3.

The 3 could also be modified slightly to allow the damage to eminate not just from the 1 but also from wisp herself (treating wisp like she was one of the pods for sake of the ability). That way for those who do not like/understand her 1 can still get the use of the 3 (just at a non optimal damage design).

Never played W.o.W. I admit to having a lot of distrust for Blizzard as a company due to their lack of original ideas and a personal spite against W.o.W. for taking the player base of Everquest. (A pre-W.o.W MMO with a very similar game play) So unless their shaman is similar to Everquests (10 hot keys that you can put a verity of abilities, an additional spell side bar with another 10 spells all hot keyed) the joke is lost on me.

2 hours ago, (XB1)Knight Raime said:

Wasn't talking about changing her 4.  Was saying I want her to be able to shoot her 4 at her decoy to make the decoy blow up with said effects without forcing Whisp to teleport.  It's an added thing.  it's not removing anything.

I see then I would give it a hard pass. Her 4 IMHO needs to be removed and changed to match the rest of her.

[Ham_Grenabe]

I feel like there's something to the Hostile Warp idea of @DeltaPangaea's and dumping people into the nothing. Or having it rip them in half - metaphysically - halving their health/armor/everything and spawning a husklike spectre of them (that maybe focuses attacks entirely on them when spawned). Might be too powerful for a 2, if it's halving all defenses, but basically: she sends you to oblivion, you come back half what you were, and with a ghost of you that really doesn't like you trying to stick a knife in your throat.

Edited April 10, 2019 by Ham_Grenabe

[DeltaPangaea]

1 minute ago, Ham_Grenabe said:

I feel like there's something to the Hostile Warp idea of @DeltaPangaea's and dumping people into the nothing. Or having it rip them in half - metaphysically - halving their health/armor/everything and spawning a husklike spectre of them (that maybe focuses attacks entirely on them when spawned). Might be too powerful for a 2, if it's halving all defenses, but basically: she sends you to oblivion, you come back half what you were, and with a ghost of you that really doesn't like you trying to stick a knife in your throat.

Thanks man. Basically my thinking is that if she's meant to be a portal frame, the Void is a great opportunitythat it'd be a shame to waste. I mean the Void literally has ghosts in it, she's a ghost, portals to the void, etc etc.

[Ham_Grenabe]

5 minutes ago, DeltaPangaea said:

Thanks man. Basically my thinking is that if she's meant to be a portal frame, the Void is a great opportunitythat it'd be a shame to waste. I mean the Void literally has ghosts in it, she's a ghost, portals to the void, etc etc.

There are a lot of themes Wisp could play with (fiery things, candles, ghosts, etc.) - but the one that underpins the bulk of the will-of-the-wisp, fool's fire, portals and gates theme to me is the idea of getting lost. Will o' the wisps lead people to their doom in the swamps. Similarly, I feel like Wisp's thing should be getting people lost - in the void, in portals to nowhere (or elsewhere), in trying to find her when she becomes invisible.

Which is why to me, the Solar Kamehameha just jarringly does not fit. I just can't personally think of what to replace it with. 

Edited April 10, 2019 by Ham_Grenabe

[DeltaPangaea]

7 minutes ago, Ham_Grenabe said:

There are a lot of themes Wisp could play with (fiery things, candles, ghosts, etc.) - but the one that underpins the bulk of the will-of-the-wisp, fool's fire, portals and gates theme to me is the idea of getting lost. Will o' the wisps lead people to their doom in the swamps. Similarly, I feel like Wisp's thing should be getting people lost - in the void, in portals to nowhere (or elsewhere), in trying to find her when she becomes invisible.

Which is why to me, the Solar Kamehameha just jarringly does not fit. I just can't personally think of what to replace it with. 

If retooling it to be a torrent of void energy doesn't do it for ya, maybe a black hole? Wisp disappears and creates a black hole at her position for the duration of the channel. Nearby enemies are sucked in and disappear. They take damage as long as they're in the black hole, and if they die while inside it they just don't come back out. Although their items do. Possibly be capable of still moving slowly while a black hole, but eh. Details.

[Nyraxx]

21 hours ago, F8ted said:

I'm sincerely confused. Which post are we talking about here? Nothing in your content stream mentions Wisp before this. So I, or anybody else would have a hard time communicating about it. 

 

hello, my post was its own seperate topic, and I had responded to a comment there, but it got merged into this mega thread, it has left things a bit disorienting.

[F8ted]

7 hours ago, (PS4)wintersfrozen said:

Hence why I suggested the concept of the ability granting a buff chain. It will grant heath, then CC then speed in that order. Any of her 1 can grant any in the chain rather then cycling threw to get from Heath to CC to Speed. This would still allow you to have all 3 buffs at a time, and it would allow you to go to any of the wisp pods to renew your buffs. It would just be in a chain. theoretically this would remove the need to cycle threw as all pods would provide the same and remove the much hated "hold to cycle" aspect that people have with Vauban. You would still need to "straggly place" your 1 but it would be less about doing so for the buffs and more for the benefit of using the 3.

The 3 could also be modified slightly to allow the damage to eminate not just from the 1 but also from wisp herself (treating wisp like she was one of the pods for sake of the ability). That way for those who do not like/understand her 1 can still get the use of the 3 (just at a non optimal damage design).

Never played W.o.W. I admit to having a lot of distrust for Blizzard as a company due to their lack of original ideas and a personal spite against W.o.W. for taking the player base of Everquest. (A pre-W.o.W MMO with a very similar game play) So unless their shaman is similar to Everquests (10 hot keys that you can put a verity of abilities, an additional spell side bar with another 10 spells all hot keyed) the joke is lost on me.

I get what you are trying to do and I respect it. Though trust me, we will never see it used if it drops the buff on the ground. Also, if her 3 and 4 fulfill the same role (aoe damage) the one that is better will be used, and the other will be ignored. Admittedly, your suggestions would be better, but in such a way that admits it has a problem, but has sentimental attachment to the mechanic. There is nothing wrong with her buffing someone. It could even have the vases swirl around someone when it's in affect. It's already difficult to group everyone together to buff via PBAoE burst (warcry) when abilities can already reapply when someone is in range (vex armor). They could have the exact same numerical effect and people would choose the easier one to apply. 

Never WoW but Everquest huh? Yes of course the shaman was very similar, and had a mechanic whereby totems were dropped on the ground to give buffs just like Wisp. I know explaining the joke kills it but yeah those are all visually/mechanically similar abilities that exist on WoWs version of shaman. Can't help but think of this old treasure when you compared the two. Another ~10 minutes of rofling from nostalgia. 

Spoiler

 

 

1 hour ago, Nyraxx said:

hello, my post was its own seperate topic, and I had responded to a comment there, but it got merged into this mega thread, it has left things a bit disorienting.

Sorry, same thing happened to me, so now I am just commenting in this thread to keep the subject fresh. Lot's people have ideas. They are all somewhere in here now. The mod has caused a huge amount of confusion because it like, hasn't even been named the same thing over the last few days.

Edited April 11, 2019 by F8ted
Spoiler trouble

[(XBOX)Nightseid]

My first impression.

I like the synergy of the first and third ability, but that totem wheel looks confusing. 

I'm not entirely sold on the idea of having to stop and pick up stuff from totems, I would have prefer it was an instant area of effect ability.

The 4th ability looks amazing but out place when considering wisp's other abilities. Perhaps introduce an ability something that works with her totems or swap make her 3rd ability into the ultimate and create another utility ability, like FOG: create a dense cloud that decreases visibility (reduce accuracy) and provide stealth to crouching allies with the area of effect.

Since folks are plugging concepts, might as well plug my own:

 

[(XBOX)Knight Raime]

22 hours ago, (PS4)wintersfrozen said:

 

I see then I would give it a hard pass. Her 4 IMHO needs to be removed and changed to match the rest of her.

I'll just agree to disagree then so we can both move along.

[(PSN)wintersfrozen]

15 hours ago, F8ted said:

I get what you are trying to do and I respect it. Though trust me, we will never see it used if it drops the buff on the ground. Also, if her 3 and 4 fulfill the same role (aoe damage) the one that is better will be used, and the other will be ignored. Admittedly, your suggestions would be better, but in such a way that admits it has a problem, but has sentimental attachment to the mechanic. There is nothing wrong with her buffing someone. It could even have the vases swirl around someone when it's in affect. It's already difficult to group everyone together to buff via PBAoE burst (warcry) when abilities can already reapply when someone is in range (vex armor). They could have the exact same numerical effect and people would choose the easier one to apply. 

Never WoW but Everquest huh? Yes of course the shaman was very similar, and had a mechanic whereby totems were dropped on the ground to give buffs just like Wisp. I know explaining the joke kills it but yeah those are all visually/mechanically similar abilities that exist on WoWs version of shaman. Can't help but think of this old treasure when you compared the two. Another ~10 minutes of rofling from nostalgia. 

  Reveal hidden contents

 

 

Sorry, same thing happened to me, so now I am just commenting in this thread to keep the subject fresh. Lot's people have ideas. They are all somewhere in here now. The mod has caused a huge amount of confusion because it like, hasn't even been named the same thing over the last few days.

I do admit I would like to see the mechanic used as I feel it has a great potential that a lot of players simply refuse to acknowledge due to poorly implemented sets up such as Titanias' collect the buff from a single enemy in a sea of enemies who all look the same. However we have seen it collection buffs work on other frames like Octavia where you have to "collect" the buffs by preforming actions nearby. In part, it is really going to depend on the range of the vase's buffs. How close do you have to be to collect it and will vacuum aid in collection of the buffs? For smaller maps this could be a lot easer then fallowing around your entire squad like the support slave, tanks want you to be. (The ability would be the biggest boon in defense, interception and in some survival maps.) Maps where players are going to follow a pattern and move to certain locations more often then others. It doesn't seam to work too differently then when you put down any restore support items. People still have to collect those as well, and with the size of them they look pretty noticeable on the terrain so it won't just blend into the tileset. For larger maps or things like exterminate, Spy, rescue and sabotage she could easily be out shone by other frames but no frame is ment for all missions. Can they call be played on all missions types, sure but Good Ivara will outshine a good Rhino at spy, but the same Rhino can likewise outshine Ivara at Exterminate. 

Having the option to control your personal buffs and collect them as you see fit could be a boon to players who often complain about forced buffs (volts speed). People are lazy that is a given just looking at how many people refuse to play Limbo, Gara or Vauban due to their complexity. (and for me Gara is the simplest of the three). I have said it a few times but my opion on her 4 is that it should be changed to something else. I admit my suggestions for replacements are not overly well conceptualized but more just generalized alternatives for it at present. Embers will use world on fire vs fireball every time, the same way that Wisp's 4 would outshine her 3 but it doesn't make her 3 bad or her 4 bad, its just a bad combo having them both so close and so alike. Frame's with similar set ups in abilities (Embers 1+4, Volts 1+4, Frosts 2+4) all have their abilities on opposite ends of the range. The first one affects whatever it is I'm looking at (targeting) the second affects and area. People use the 4's more often because it affects more things. Wisp's 4 does kind of the reverse of that by being a targeted beam rather then an area of effect. So if the damage was the same and cost the same why would you ever use her 4?

Ya... In fairness Everquest came out like 4-5 years before WoW. I wasn't willing to drop all the work I had put into my characters when my friends started telling me about how much better Wow was. (forced 3rd person Vs optional 1st/3rd was not better to me). I don't recall a mechanic that matches that description but I wouldn't be surprised about it if Everquest had something similar. There were more then a few AoE buff spells that had to be applied to a singular character and would grant the boon to others in the area as well. But as far as I'm concerned managing those spells and your allies is part of being a good support. Though something Everquest had that made it easy to do was the ability to see your allies energy and buffs to know when you needed to recast. A mechanic that warframe lacks, making it harder (but not impossible) for supports to manage the rest of the team. But that's QoL UI change that likely won't happen any time soon.

[(PSN)LoisGordils]

11 hours ago, (XB1)Nightseid said:

I like the synergy of the first and third ability, but that totem wheel looks confusing

Lol, what synergy? Her 3 is simply another aspect of her 1. There is no synergy, since her 3 is non-existent and completely dependent on her 1

[Gawizard]

imo, her 4 is meh, its one of those "sound cool abilities" that would probably be lack luster after DE nerfs it 3 times, (see Ember) her other 3 abilities kinda makes her viable for stratergy play which is what ive been asking for in warframe. Less mindless shooting, more thinking before shooting. As the exploiter orb says "DPS Frames are akin to a simple beast, using violence and wrath to fix any matter" at leas thats what i hear.

[Gawizard]

also just saw what based god Pablo posted, 
i suggest you guys get to practicing.

[(XBOX)Nightseid]

2 hours ago, (PS4)LoisGordils said:

Lol, what synergy? Her 3 is simply another aspect of her 1. There is no synergy, since her 3 is non-existent and completely dependent on her 1

Hmm. Validate point had to re-watch devstream. For what ever reason I thought wisp herself also pulsed radial damage in addition to her reservoirs.

Edited April 12, 2019 by (XB1)Nightseid

[Cegrin]

2 hours ago, (PS4)LoisGordils said:

Lol, what synergy? Her 3 is simply another aspect of her 1. There is no synergy, since her 3 is non-existent and completely dependent on her 1

I have to echo this.  If one ability has no functionality unless a separate ability is active, then it shouldn't be its own ability.  A good contrast to this can be seen in Mag's Polarize ability.  Polarize has its own functionality in depleting enemy shields and armors, and restoring the party's shields, but it becomes more useful when it hits a Magnetized target.  See also Nidus's 2-4 abilities.  All of them synergize spectacularly well with Virulence, but they all have their own primary effects: crowd control, damage enhancement/mitigation, and healing. 

Compare this to Wisp's third ability, which by all indications has no independent functionality.  Frankly, I'm wondering if it can even be used if your totems are too far away.  This also actually touches on a secondary issue with the ability.  Warframe is a very fast paced game.  Even Defense and Interception missions see the players covering distances of hundreds of meters in a span of seconds, and those two mission types are in atypically small environments.  At the extreme end, missions like capture frequently see a total mission time of less than 3 minutes.  Even in longer matches such as survival, staying in one part of the map for a prolonged period of time is very much the exception rather than the rule (unless you're farming for rare drops with a pilfdroid).  And the effect of Wisp's third ability is to turn her stationary totems into short lived (one burst?) AoE turrets.  That suggests that the ability will have niche utility to begin with, and might even require more setup than the payoff is worth. 

Edited April 12, 2019 by Cegrin

[Vulmarrow]

Dear ShikiRen,

Please calm down. This game is for all types of people, people who enjoy CC, DMG, and everything else.

You cannot stereotype every warframe, for example,

On 2019-04-06 at 7:40 AM, ShikiRen said:

#4 : And number 4, another take on the Revenant-ult-type which nobody effing likes because you are stuck in the animation not using anything else, the damage usually sucks, and you tried to put that ability on 3 of the last 4 frames for crying out loud.

I thoroughly enjoy Revenant, his damage does not suck, and these types of abilities going on the last 3 out of 4 warframes shows that DE is experimenting.

Do not forget where Warframe has come from.

If you don't want to try something new,

then just leave.

[Phantom-6]

                Wisp is going to be, for the most part, a useless warframe.  While parts of her kit look pretty cool or have a very interesting concept to them, that alone won't make her even a decent tier frame.  At this point in time she's being relegated to the "mastery fodder" tier of warframes.  Let's break this all down.

                Her first ability summons reservoirs that provide various buffs.  Support abilities are perfectly fine in warframe.  While support abilities are fine, deploy-able abilities are not.  While they do have their uses in specific situations, they are mostly useless throughout most of the game as it currently stands and where it appears to be going.  This is the reason Vauban is getting reworked.  How effective the buffs are, or how much damage it does tied into her third ability doesn't really matter all that much.  Sure the buffs would be nice, but everyone has to go to that spot to get the buff.  Sure it may be useful in a mobile defense, defense or interception mission, the rest of the game there's no point to it, you won't be there long enough to utilize it and you'll have to keep moving them just to maintain those buffs and your team would have to get the buffs etc.

                Her second ability is in my opinion the best thing about her kit, granted that's not saying a whole lot considering the state of the rest of her kit.  This ability has some very interesting potential play making opportunities.  While the decoy aspect of this ability may not be the best form of CC in the game, that doesn't mean that it's not valuable.   The ability to teleport to the moving decoy after casting is what provides the interesting part to this, you send it out towards where you want to end up, do whatever (i.e. kill some mobs, grab a data mass, pick up ammo, etc.), and then teleport to it.  While it may not be the best in terms of pure mobility it gives us interesting ways to get things done.  The additional radial blind upon activating the teleport and the short invulnerability window means that even if there's a pesky bombard rocket about to give the decoy a bad headache just as we teleport to it, we'll be fine.  In my opinion this is a very interesting concept, you know, as long as the decoy doesn't get stuck on a pebble.

                Wisp's third ability makes perfect sense given that her first ability is what it is.  Tie in a little bit of damage to the deploy-able reservoirs and you could do some pretty interesting things.  The problem, however, is the same as it is with her first ability.  Although it may be useful in some situations, throughout most of the game it will be basically useless.

                Now for one of the coolest looking abilities in warframe, her ultimate.  Seriously who doesn't want to fry the eyebrows off their enemies with a solar flare?  Given that it does fairly decent damage, that increases the longer you are hitting a specific target, it could be a really fun ability.  There are problems with it though.  First of all there is the animation lock during channeling, which is a big reason why a lot of players don't like abilities like this, i.e. Revenant, but hey not everyone is going to like every ability in the game, that being stated I personally am perfectly fine with being locked into that animation as long as the eyebrows of my enemies are being significantly singed. The second problem with this ability is that it really doesn't feel like it fits with the rest of her kit.  I personally feel like this ability could be used on a rework for Ember, could be a lot of fun there, but on Wisp it just doesn't feel right.  Her first and third abilities are built around deploy-able reservoirs, her second is a distraction and movement ability and then there's this, the giant f*** off solar flare of doom cannon.  It doesn't fit, even if we ignore the glaringly obvious questions about if it really is a solar flare why is this room/ship/atmosphere still here? 

                If it really has to be a damage ability why not something like she summons a swarm of *insert lore and thematically friendly object/animal/thing* from *insert lore and thematically friendly place* that flies around and shreds everything.  In my personal example I thought it'd be really cool if she would summon a massive swarm of cetus wisps that fly around her and shred everything, I think that'd be cool and fun to use.  By the way make it a duration based ability, not a channeled.  Also not animation locked.  If it doesn't have to be a super damage ability why not make it support her other abilities or team?

                In conclusion, if the goal is to make her a supportive warframe that's only truly effective in defense type situations that's perfectly fine and she'll have a place in my arsenal.  I just feel like a better job can be done and still make a very wonderful and enjoyable frame even outside of those situations.

 

TLDR: Wisp is, as it currently stands, basically mastery fodder.

Edited April 12, 2019 by Phantom-6
Clarification

[Gawizard]

2 hours ago, Vulmarrow said:

Dear ShikiRen,

Please calm down. This game is for all types of people, people who enjoy CC, DMG, and everything else.

You cannot stereotype every warframe, for example,

I thoroughly enjoy Revenant, his damage does not suck, and these types of abilities going on the last 3 out of 4 warframes shows that DE is experimenting.

Do not forget where Warframe has come from.

If you don't want to try something new,

then just leave.

Imo experimenting isnt adding abilities with animation locks. experimenting is taking a hard counter to the DPS meta and making CC frames mean something (we'll save that for another thread) . Adding warframes with animation locks are kinda useless unless they did pre nerf banshee damage but now look at banshee, her 4 is a stagger fest while equinox just presses her maim and clean up shop for much less energy. If DE tried something new, then innate Damage Reduction wouldn't be a main part in every main and mini boss were fighting today.

[F8ted]

11 hours ago, (PS4)wintersfrozen said:

I do admit I would like to see the mechanic used as I feel it has a great potential that a lot of players simply refuse to acknowledge due to poorly implemented sets up such as Titanias' collect the buff from a single enemy in a sea of enemies who all look the same. However we have seen it collection buffs work on other frames like Octavia where you have to "collect" the buffs by preforming actions nearby. In part, it is really going to depend on the range of the vase's buffs. How close do you have to be to collect it and will vacuum aid in collection of the buffs? For smaller maps this could be a lot easer then fallowing around your entire squad like the support slave, tanks want you to be. (The ability would be the biggest boon in defense, interception and in some survival maps.) Maps where players are going to follow a pattern and move to certain locations more often then others. It doesn't seam to work too differently then when you put down any restore support items. People still have to collect those as well, and with the size of them they look pretty noticeable on the terrain so it won't just blend into the tileset. For larger maps or things like exterminate, Spy, rescue and sabotage she could easily be out shone by other frames but no frame is ment for all missions. Can they call be played on all missions types, sure but Good Ivara will outshine a good Rhino at spy, but the same Rhino can likewise outshine Ivara at Exterminate.

Okay so this is a pretty good point of comparison for a couple of my points. You can observe where you start justifying the ability for being difficult to use by describing a "Support Slave" placing these buffs in areas you presume your team will walk through, and again presume they will care to pick them up. This is a lot of presumption. Even Octavia is a perfect example: You view this as an interesting collection mechanic, satisfying your desire to have a few customizable buffs on one ability, but it is not. It is a passive point blank area of affect buff that simply works when your allies are in range. Even though there is an interesting "dance" mechanic to choose your buff, we have abused the mechanic it uses to determine how well people synchronize. Even further, it buffs what you are doing while you do it: you shoot gun to get gun buff, you jump to get movement buff, you crouch to get stealth buff. Wisp? You move to get attack buff, you move to get resistance buff, you move to get utility buff. No smart mechanic to allow people to focus on their own job, you force them to play your way. 

In addition, the last portion, is actually the most important part of this statement. Everyone needs to be able to run through the entire starchart. It would be nice if in some way everyone could be invited to fight Eidolons. While someone can outshine most of the rest in their "thing", "Specialty", "Identity" they should be able to complete any mission they face. It's not that I care, I have over 30 warframes. I can pick the best frame for every single mission. I realize not everyone has this option, and should be able to run their starter frame forever if it is their favorite. Yes this means Excalibur in spy, exterminate and sabotage. This is how it should be, especially since each warframe has 4 abilities. Many abilities are in need of help, and is likely the way to achieve this goal. 

11 hours ago, (PS4)wintersfrozen said:

Having the option to control your personal buffs and collect them as you see fit could be a boon to players who often complain about forced buffs (volts speed). People are lazy that is a given just looking at how many people refuse to play Limbo, Gara or Vauban due to their complexity. (and for me Gara is the simplest of the three). I have said it a few times but my opion on her 4 is that it should be changed to something else. I admit my suggestions for replacements are not overly well conceptualized but more just generalized alternatives for it at present. Embers will use world on fire vs fireball every time, the same way that Wisp's 4 would outshine her 3 but it doesn't make her 3 bad or her 4 bad, its just a bad combo having them both so close and so alike. Frame's with similar set ups in abilities (Embers 1+4, Volts 1+4, Frosts 2+4) all have their abilities on opposite ends of the range. The first one affects whatever it is I'm looking at (targeting) the second affects and area. People use the 4's more often because it affects more things. Wisp's 4 does kind of the reverse of that by being a targeted beam rather then an area of effect. So if the damage was the same and cost the same why would you ever use her 4?

Oh sure, the "forced" buffs that can be annoying and gameplay disruptive? Yeah those shouldn't even exist. I actually don't so much mind Volt's because it takes a good amount of resources to grief with it but I have had some bad experiences with Limbo's that make it their life goal to banish you at every opportunity. Limbo is not complex at all. Hit 4 hit 2, afk while your team screams at you to turn your abilities off. He then has a passive buff that dramatically increases his damage just for the hell of it. Vauban can likewise cause some interesting grief not only with bounce, but with Bastille holding enemies at their spawn location. It's like full slowva without the damage boost. Hell his vortex still lets him mop up a whole room and then ground finisher them all at once, which is mechanically incredibly powerful, he just has the same tool 5 times in the same kit, and then an entertaining but mechanically useless damage ability.

I am absolutely sure Wisp's 4 is going to outdo her 3. No one is going to put her totems all over the place to utilize strategically offensively if they have any illusions people are going to pick them up. Her 4 fulfills both roles perfectly: she looks in the general location of a group of enemies and turns on the sun. It targets a specific direction (frost's 2/Embe'rs 1/Volt's 1) and hits a wide area with AoE damage (Embers 4/Volt's 4/Frost's 4). It's not a radial burst centered on the caster, but rather you target where you would like the "caster" to be for the radial burst to be centered on. Most likely it will not have the same radius of effect at that point, but look at Ember's 3, does it look like that has Volt's/Frost's 4's range? Neither will Wisps 3. Also, not radiating from Wisp anyway, putting it in a weird comparative zone from the others. 

11 hours ago, (PS4)wintersfrozen said:

Ya... In fairness Everquest came out like 4-5 years before WoW. I wasn't willing to drop all the work I had put into my characters when my friends started telling me about how much better Wow was. (forced 3rd person Vs optional 1st/3rd was not better to me). I don't recall a mechanic that matches that description but I wouldn't be surprised about it if Everquest had something similar. There were more then a few AoE buff spells that had to be applied to a singular character and would grant the boon to others in the area as well. But as far as I'm concerned managing those spells and your allies is part of being a good support. Though something Everquest had that made it easy to do was the ability to see your allies energy and buffs to know when you needed to recast. A mechanic that warframe lacks, making it harder (but not impossible) for supports to manage the rest of the team. But that's QoL UI change that likely won't happen any time soon.

You can most certainly see your team's hp/energy/buffs to know when to recast. You have to turn it on in options but yeah, looks quite a bit like the system in Everquest. I 100% a change to HuD/UI that goes beyond looking pretty, but the design team needs someone willing to do the thinking on that which isn't as fun as designing a warframe. Definitely use this on my Trinity/Equinox/Nezha to keep people healthy. It's also not as though support isn't a wide ranging thing in warframe. Some warframes like Hydroid can go full "support slave" and heal, cc, damage, and boost loot while being relatively untouchable. I am not against a support type or even the idea that each warframe should be partially a "support type". Again, jack of all trades, then master of one. Each warframe should have synergy beyond their own kit. This is why despite removing the buff fountains from my suggested remakes (yes two because I want ghost/others want light) both included a buff ability that is helpful to every team, and then adds another layer to her kit too. They don't lock down your team's guns to do so, they don't force people to pick them up, both are interactive with the other players choices in a meaningful way, and don't change how people would play the game at all. Support forcing their tank to jump through hoops to be supported is not bad for the tank, it's bad for the support in every single game ever made. 

[Sekan]

Personally I would prefer Wisp to be "buffing" in the terms of wide area debuffs or damage vulnerability. But that's a personal preference 🙂

[(PSN)Technesiss]

I don't see Wisp being good unless she gets post release tuning. Her kit and her theme don't make sense. It's like Revenant all over again. 

[ShikiRen]

9 hours ago, Vulmarrow said:

Dear ShikiRen,

Please calm down. This game is for all types of people, people who enjoy CC, DMG, and everything else.

You cannot stereotype every warframe, for example,

I thoroughly enjoy Revenant, his damage does not suck, and these types of abilities going on the last 3 out of 4 warframes shows that DE is experimenting.

Do not forget where Warframe has come from.

If you don't want to try something new,

then just leave.

Oh, the irony. "If you do not want to try something new, just leave." I DO WANT them to try something new, which is my effing point. You even QUOTED it for crying out loud! How you can think that slapping basically the same ability on 3 out off 4 frames is "experimenting" and trying to do "something new" is beyond me. If copypasting an ability and just change a variable here or there( "nono this is not a spin, it is a straight beam! Totally different! And this is a spin with a lot less range, see?!") is something new, then every cookie clicker game where they just changed the falling speed of the cookies is something new.

And if they want to experiment with different versions of the same ability... well that is what the design team is for right? You'd assume they'd test multiple spins on the same ability until they find the one that works best instead of slapping each iteration of it on a new frame until they make something that is actually decent.

 

Also, if you had actually read through the thread you'd have seen I actually had calmed down and wrote out some ideas I had to make her better and still basically the same. But you saying "The same ability 3 times is trying something new!" just made me annoyed again. Also Revenants damage does not suck completely...true. Which is why they cranked up the energy cost to the moon after about a week.

 

Also, another thing that completely invalidates them trying "Something new" : Revenant's ult literally is a new attempt at making "World on Fire" abilities work...which is on one of the original frames. Totally innovative, there. And hey, if it had just been Revenant, I'd have no problem. My Problem with Revenant lies with other things. But then they almost gave Garuda the SAME ability, just melee ranged before they changed it. Now they give Wisp that ability, only it is a beam, so pretty much worse from the get-go. Only that Wisp's stats and other abilities do not lend themselves to an ability that makes her a sitting duck that dies in 3 seconds. Really, do what I said in another post : Try Revenant against a group of sortie 3 level corrupted/grineer gunners/bombards, and do not activate his mesmerskin. Then try and see how far you can go with your ult before dying. That is about what Wisp will feel like. Only her beam does not hit everyone around her, so enemies at her back can take her out in a second or two without being threatened.

So... yeah. TL,DR : I do want something new, slapping minimally changed versions of the same ability (which is based on the ult of one of the first frames) on 3 out of 4 frames is the opposite of something new.

Edited April 12, 2019 by ShikiRen

[EinheriarJudith]

of all the skills, im not looking forward to her 1. i dislike ability wheels and deployables that dont move on their own. this is a fast paced parkour game, and i dont know why DE thinks its ok to have anything be stationary.

even in the case of defense enemies spawn in different places and unless you are in a premade that has decided to stay in one spot and camp, players are gonna (as they always are in pubs) be all over the place. especially on defense that has moving person.

i dont mind her other 3 skills though. ive thrown theme out of the window when DE decided to ditch frame quests. these are just character cards now.

[LuckyCharm]

I'm okay with deployables, I really dont like the switchable skills though like wisps 1, vaubans mines, and ivaras quiver. They're clunky and slow when you're trying to do multiple in any reasonable amount of time. I'd much rather remove or combine a couple of wisps buffs and simply make make it a single cast. Then you can have the Hold as her 3 instead which would free up an entire new ability. 

I can see the 1+3 combo being strong defensively in interceptions etc where you have points to defend, but she's really lacking meaningful survivability besides the passive for invis when in the air. Taunts in this game are really rather pointless currently since they barely work if the enemy can still see you (see loki and saryn decoy/molt)  and the electic proc from the buff is worse than simply shooting enemies with your guns. 

I'm not that excited for her 2, it seems to be pretty much a nezha 2 which isn't really something I find ever useful when it's usually just as fast to run to the place. 

 

TLDR

Wisp is looking to be just another damage focused frame without any real meaningful way to stay alive if you're locked into animations like 4. 1+3 can be merged to leave a spare ability slot for something defensive

[Cerebrum123]

On 2019-04-05 at 8:11 PM, DLOArceus said:

Pretty sure that there's an option in...the options, that swaps that.

There is, it makes press use, and hold swap. However, this option doesn't work the same on all frames. Khora gets hold to use while press to swap while pretty much everyone else I've used gets the other option.