Wisp Review/Early feedback

[Aeon94]

1 hour ago, LuckyCharm said:

I'm okay with deployables, I really dont like the switchable skills though like wisps 1, vaubans mines, and ivaras quiver. They're clunky and slow when you're trying to do multiple in any reasonable amount of time. I'd much rather remove or combine a couple of wisps buffs and simply make make it a single cast. Then you can have the Hold as her 3 instead which would free up an entire new ability. 

I can see the 1+3 combo being strong defensively in interceptions etc where you have points to defend, but she's really lacking meaningful survivability besides the passive for invis when in the air. Taunts in this game are really rather pointless currently since they barely work if the enemy can still see you (see loki and saryn decoy/molt)  and the electic proc from the buff is worse than simply shooting enemies with your guns. 

I'm not that excited for her 2, it seems to be pretty much a nezha 2 which isn't really something I find ever useful when it's usually just as fast to run to the place. 

 

TLDR

Wisp is looking to be just another damage focused frame without any real meaningful way to stay alive if you're locked into animations like 4. 1+3 can be merged to leave a spare ability slot for something defensive

Well technically using 2nd ability instantly makes you invisible while shadow travels. So enemies don't see you. But agree she could use survivability options like evasion.

Edited April 12, 2019 by Aeon94

[(XBOX)Nightseid]

2 hours ago, LuckyCharm said:

I'm okay with deployables, I really dont like the switchable skills though like wisps 1, vaubans mines, and ivaras quiver. They're clunky and slow when you're trying to do multiple in any reasonable amount of time. I'd much rather remove or combine a couple of wisps buffs and simply make make it a single cast. Then you can have the Hold as her 3 instead which would free up an entire new ability. 

I can see the 1+3 combo being strong defensively in interceptions etc where you have points to defend, but she's really lacking meaningful survivability besides the passive for invis when in the air. Taunts in this game are really rather pointless currently since they barely work if the enemy can still see you (see loki and saryn decoy/molt)  and the electic proc from the buff is worse than simply shooting enemies with your guns. 

I'm not that excited for her 2, it seems to be pretty much a nezha 2 which isn't really something I find ever useful when it's usually just as fast to run to the place. 

 

TLDR

Wisp is looking to be just another damage focused frame without any real meaningful way to stay alive if you're locked into animations like 4. 1+3 can be merged to leave a spare ability slot for something defensive

Or have the reservoirs pulse automatically once they are deployed - providing allies the benefit and damage nearby enemies.

Leaving number 3 slot open for fog (group stealth)... fog makes sense with the wisps folklore.

 

[LuckyCharm]

1 hour ago, Aeon94 said:

Well technically using 2nd ability instantly makes you invisible while shadow travels. So enemies don't see you. But agree she could use survivability options like evasion.

Yeah i think my main issue with the shadow travel thing being her main invisibility other than her mid air passive is that while you're casting her 1, 3 or 4 you're a sitting duck with no protection and from the looks of 4 im not sure you'd be able to jump or cast 2 during it's animation which would negate any defenses you have at the time. Will probably have to play her to test it but it'd feel a little like baruch to me when you try to attack and his 1 instantly disables 

[Aeon94]

23 minutes ago, LuckyCharm said:

Yeah i think my main issue with the shadow travel thing being her main invisibility other than her mid air passive is that while you're casting her 1, 3 or 4 you're a sitting duck with no protection and from the looks of 4 im not sure you'd be able to jump or cast 2 during it's animation which would negate any defenses you have at the time. Will probably have to play her to test it but it'd feel a little like baruch to me when you try to attack and his 1 instantly disables 

Best thing DE can do is let Wisp keep altitude and momentum in air while casting Sol ( 4# ). So she can obliterate enemies with invis sun beam :d

[Birdframe_Prime]

I have been Scrolling... for 30 PAGES!!

Now, honestly, I just wanted to reply to a thread that was trying to come up with something that they would actually want to see from Wisp, not one that just beat on about how we don't like what we've currently seen. Unfortunately, that thread vanished to be smashed into here somewhere.

And honestly, I now just want to leave the ideas and go. This feedback is too long and I'm going to presume that DE aren't actually going to be paying attention by this point, because they certainly didn't scroll past the first few comments on threads about Zephyr to read the actual ideas instead of the innane 'my first post' threads about her...

So.

I just think that Wisp needs to benefit from being more Wisp like and less... everything else.

Her passive? I like it. Wisps are, in the fairy tales and some of the non-adapted legends, known to flicker in and out of sight, appearing in different places to mystify and confuse people. So situational invisibility? Right on the money.

Her 1... Well I can see where they're coming from, the concept is that she summons places where other Wisps gather, and that by bringing those lesser wisps with you they grant you buffs. But. It's too bitty. Too broken up.

If you're going to do a deployable buffing station, do just one at a time and make it useful. By that I just mean make a deployable, call it a 'grove' or something, and when allies pass through that, they gain all three buffs at once. Then you can deploy, say, three of those 'groves', and have there be a bonus for the multiple casts.

Having a single cast not give a player the full benefit of base ability is not good ability design. Having a bonus effect not related to the base effect available for more casting is a good function, though, and could be something like 'while standing inside Grove's small radius, recasting will instantly relocate Wisp to a previously cast Grove'. So if you're on a fast-paced mission, you cast one, everyone runs through it, you gain all the health, speed and CC buffs, and the whole team moves on.

Also useful for missions that like diverting, such as Spy. Place a Grove outside the Vault, navigate the Vault, cast a Grove inside and transport back to the exit instantly. Also works for Survival missions where you can put a Grove down in a place with the Life Support, then run around to find resources, kill more enemies and so on, maybe even camp in a corridor, and if you need to crack open a pod, you can use Grove to return.

Her 2... Unlike a lot of people here, I think her 2 is perfect. Especially after the update from Pablo to say that she gains damage mitigation when she teleports. Talk about an interesting ability for survivability. Double-tap 2 in order to blind and gain temporary invulnerability... Also, fits with the actual theme. A distracting light to lead unwary victims away. That's a Wisp, that's the idea there.

Her 3? Oh sweet mother of forced dependence. No. The ability needs to do something first, a base function. If it's going to be damage, then have it be something like a pulse of damage from Wisp herself, and then as a bonus, not as a requirement, if there are Groves placed, a lower range damage pulse comes from those as well. To scale it up base it on how many enemies are within range, so it deals more if you manage to group enemies up. (Why? Because I had an idea for her 4.) This way, when she presses 3, she deals radial damage as a base effect, and then on top of that, for additional Energy cost of placing a Grove, she gets another instance of damage from there too.

That's, again, basic ability design. You don't make the ability do nothing when pressed just because you haven't cast another ability first. If you want a direct example of this in game, look at Baruuk. Anyone who does not like using Baruuk (and I'm not one of those people) will point out that when they press 4, nothing happens. Not unless they spend time casting his 1, 2 and 3 in order to build up the meter for his 4. To those people, it sucks. And to Wisp players, not being able to cast 3 without casting her 1 will suck.

But it's her 4 I really want to change.

Steering an animation around is boring. I don't care how good the damage is, I don't care how good the animation is, if I have to steer another animation ability around after having it on Hildryn and on Revenant, and narrowly avoiding having it on Garuda, I am going to be upset.

The current iteration literally makes her current 3 redundant. Why would you go set up your 1 and then time the press of your 3 when you can just press 4 and walk around with it? It's old Ash Bladestorm all over again, where your 4 is literally better than all of your other abilities in any given situation. It's un-interactive and if the damage actually does scale up high enough to make a difference at the levels we want it to, then it's going to be stupidly over-powered at the levels it shouldn't be.

What we need is an ability that allows us to scale better, without direct damage and locked animation being the key components.

So I propose 'Lost Souls', where you press 4 to coat a large area of ground in 'fog' (the kind of fog that travellers get lost in and see Wisps), similar to Oberon's Hallowed Ground in height so it doesn't actually interfere with sight for us. Enemies on it will be stunned, whether they are within the cast range or pass into it, stunned enemies will be in an Unaware state while within Lost Souls until directly attacked or until an Objective is in direct line of sight. Enemies within Lost Souls take bonus damage from all sources, and double damage from her 3. Unaware enemies within Lost Souls will be drawn to any Grove that is placed within the range.

This means you have; 1. an on-cast or on-contact stun, which is useful no matter what. 2. Enemies that take bonus damage, also is useful no matter what. 3. A way for Wisp to group all enemies up around her Groves so that you can hit them with the max-damage from her 3rd ability, and it deals bonus damage because of it. 4. A psuedo stealth mechanic where you can cause a room full of Alert enemies to become Unaware, and then go to town on them with a melee or similar for it's own bonus damage on first hit.

In any situation it's useful, but has limits; if you try to cast it to prevent enemies from capturing an Interception point... not going to work, they'll wake up, see the objective, be alert and do things again. Same with a Defense or Mobile Defense. In Survivals, though, and Extermination, Sabotage, Defection, this would really useful.

Honestly...

It's just tweaks to her 1 and 3, but the change to her 4 is something I would genuinely want to see in game. We need scaling that works with what we do, not scaling single-point damage that just puts us into an animation state that we steer about.

I mean... tell me, DE, was it Destiny 2 that inspired this 4th, or was it that somebody had literally just finished reading The War of Three Worlds and thought 'the power of the sun through a portal split the moon in half, let's use that for a Warframe ability!', hmm?

[(PSN)thefallenloser]

2 hours ago, Birdframe_Prime said:

Now, honestly, I just wanted to reply to a thread that was trying to come up with something that they would actually want to see from Wisp, not one that just beat on about how we don't like what we've currently seen. Unfortunately, that thread vanished to be smashed into here somewhere.

My Wisp thread in a nutshell, lol. Kinda like these ideas. Not exactly how I'd like to see Wisp, but way better than what we have.

Edited April 12, 2019 by (PS4)ArtPrince17

[Birdframe_Prime]

1 hour ago, (PS4)ArtPrince17 said:

My Wisp thread in a nutshell

It was your thread kiddo ^^

[Lanzeroth]

On 2019-04-05 at 2:52 PM, YandereWaifu said:

no frame dies in 1 hit at level 60 hell even at lvl 100 smh (unless your just like standing still not moving)

 

May I note Saryn Specter for Sedna junction

[Gawizard]

14 hours ago, Birdframe_Prime said:

I mean... tell me, DE, was it Destiny 2 that inspired this 4th

Glad to know i wasnt the only person who saw it resembled a prometheus lens / Chaos Reach hybrid (or operator chest beams).

[Birdframe_Prime]

14 hours ago, Gawizard said:

Glad to know i wasnt the only person who saw it resembled a prometheus lens / Chaos Reach hybrid (or operator chest beams).

My over-arching worry with her 4? It'll be cool the first few times you press the button. It'll get you killed a few times after that because enemies will have you before you can kill them. It'll be boring and only ever used for killing CC'd enemies after a few weeks.

[F8ted]

1 hour ago, Birdframe_Prime said:

My over-arching worry with her 4? It'll be cool the first few times you press the button. It'll get you killed a few times after that because enemies will have you before you can kill them. It'll be boring and only ever used for killing CC'd enemies after a few weeks.

I'm actually fairly certain we are going to see the opposite. They got a lot currently wrapped in it, so much so that I see folks complaining it breaks balance. They have stated it will scale up in damage the longer it hits an enemy, besides the laser you direct solar flares seek nearby enemies. This in concert with her passive, which as long as you are airborne you are stealth, can lead to some pretty interesting combinations. Especially with something like tractor beam. With that in mind I am also one of the fairly vocal ones about changing her. I am not super sold on her just being another nuke the whole room type frame. I take much more exception with her other abilities. None of them will ever be used in their current state. Save maybe double-tapping 2 to activate radial blind+damage reduction. It will never be useful as a teleport or decoy. I'm also sadly sure that anyone defending the pick up mechanic will have an opinion change after they play it in game. No one has spent enough time slapping Titania buffs out of enemies to realize how truly fun it's going to be. 

This whole topic however is really getting me to think about the whole state of the game as far as abilities go. Just commented in another thread about "useless passives", with the majority of Warframes fitting this description. Most warframes have "trash" abilities that no one uses. The viability of a warframe is simply how good it's best ability is, and how easy it is to achieve it. This is kind of wrong from a design perspective, but clearly evident in the game. I think the problem lies far beyond Wisp's kit, and this issue is just highlighting it. 

[Nyraxx]

On 2019-04-12 at 2:53 AM, (PS4)Technesiss said:

I don't see Wisp being good unless she gets post release tuning. Her kit and her theme don't make sense. It's like Revenant all over again. 

whats the prob with revenant? His kit has nice synergy and his 4 is strong even at high levels

[Rankii]

I heard that her skills were originally different. She had a possession-type ability and a Limbo-like pocket world that gave buffs and transportation to her totems.

I would have liked those, since I'm sick to death of damage-dealing abilities that do nothing besides that. I have guns, why would I need something that overlaps that utility. Wisp losing her ghostly aspects in favor of an ability that relies on the pressnce of another ability, and a (let's be honest here) memetic "Da powah of da sun!" damage skill that will likely falloff in any high level play just don't have a good feel to them. Yes I know it scales. It sounds like that only applies when you stay on a target, and single-target skills in a hoard-shooter seems awful. And yes I've heard the rationalization that "it's a will-o-wisp so of course it's fire", but the connection to fire ends at the aesthetic and certainly doesn't translate logically to "Place a portal to the sun and use the fire as a weapon".

Honestly I wouldn't mind at all if they Pre-Reworked her. Take those flaming abilities and give them to Ember (lord knows the poor girl needs SOMETHING to feel like she matters), and make Wisp more ghostly in how she plays. Because she's looking like she's going to be Revenant 2: Son of Khora. And to doom a frame with such a unique aesthetic and movement to such a mediocre kit is criminal. I want something fun and this set doesn't look fun...less fun when we get full Wisp teams just spamming the 4.

[Rankii]

On 2019-04-12 at 11:26 AM, Birdframe_Prime said:

I have been Scrolling... for 30 PAGES!!

Now, honestly, I just wanted to reply to a thread that was trying to come up with something that they would actually want to see from Wisp, not one that just beat on about how we don't like what we've currently seen. Unfortunately, that thread vanished to be smashed into here somewhere.

And honestly, I now just want to leave the ideas and go. This feedback is too long and I'm going to presume that DE aren't actually going to be paying attention by this point, because they certainly didn't scroll past the first few comments on threads about Zephyr to read the actual ideas instead of the innane 'my first post' threads about her...

So.

I just think that Wisp needs to benefit from being more Wisp like and less... everything else.

Her passive? I like it. Wisps are, in the fairy tales and some of the non-adapted legends, known to flicker in and out of sight, appearing in different places to mystify and confuse people. So situational invisibility? Right on the money.

Her 1... Well I can see where they're coming from, the concept is that she summons places where other Wisps gather, and that by bringing those lesser wisps with you they grant you buffs. But. It's too bitty. Too broken up.

If you're going to do a deployable buffing station, do just one at a time and make it useful. By that I just mean make a deployable, call it a 'grove' or something, and when allies pass through that, they gain all three buffs at once. Then you can deploy, say, three of those 'groves', and have there be a bonus for the multiple casts.

Having a single cast not give a player the full benefit of base ability is not good ability design. Having a bonus effect not related to the base effect available for more casting is a good function, though, and could be something like 'while standing inside Grove's small radius, recasting will instantly relocate Wisp to a previously cast Grove'. So if you're on a fast-paced mission, you cast one, everyone runs through it, you gain all the health, speed and CC buffs, and the whole team moves on.

Also useful for missions that like diverting, such as Spy. Place a Grove outside the Vault, navigate the Vault, cast a Grove inside and transport back to the exit instantly. Also works for Survival missions where you can put a Grove down in a place with the Life Support, then run around to find resources, kill more enemies and so on, maybe even camp in a corridor, and if you need to crack open a pod, you can use Grove to return.

Her 2... Unlike a lot of people here, I think her 2 is perfect. Especially after the update from Pablo to say that she gains damage mitigation when she teleports. Talk about an interesting ability for survivability. Double-tap 2 in order to blind and gain temporary invulnerability... Also, fits with the actual theme. A distracting light to lead unwary victims away. That's a Wisp, that's the idea there.

Her 3? Oh sweet mother of forced dependence. No. The ability needs to do something first, a base function. If it's going to be damage, then have it be something like a pulse of damage from Wisp herself, and then as a bonus, not as a requirement, if there are Groves placed, a lower range damage pulse comes from those as well. To scale it up base it on how many enemies are within range, so it deals more if you manage to group enemies up. (Why? Because I had an idea for her 4.) This way, when she presses 3, she deals radial damage as a base effect, and then on top of that, for additional Energy cost of placing a Grove, she gets another instance of damage from there too.

That's, again, basic ability design. You don't make the ability do nothing when pressed just because you haven't cast another ability first. If you want a direct example of this in game, look at Baruuk. Anyone who does not like using Baruuk (and I'm not one of those people) will point out that when they press 4, nothing happens. Not unless they spend time casting his 1, 2 and 3 in order to build up the meter for his 4. To those people, it sucks. And to Wisp players, not being able to cast 3 without casting her 1 will suck.

But it's her 4 I really want to change.

Steering an animation around is boring. I don't care how good the damage is, I don't care how good the animation is, if I have to steer another animation ability around after having it on Hildryn and on Revenant, and narrowly avoiding having it on Garuda, I am going to be upset.

The current iteration literally makes her current 3 redundant. Why would you go set up your 1 and then time the press of your 3 when you can just press 4 and walk around with it? It's old Ash Bladestorm all over again, where your 4 is literally better than all of your other abilities in any given situation. It's un-interactive and if the damage actually does scale up high enough to make a difference at the levels we want it to, then it's going to be stupidly over-powered at the levels it shouldn't be.

What we need is an ability that allows us to scale better, without direct damage and locked animation being the key components.

So I propose 'Lost Souls', where you press 4 to coat a large area of ground in 'fog' (the kind of fog that travellers get lost in and see Wisps), similar to Oberon's Hallowed Ground in height so it doesn't actually interfere with sight for us. Enemies on it will be stunned, whether they are within the cast range or pass into it, stunned enemies will be in an Unaware state while within Lost Souls until directly attacked or until an Objective is in direct line of sight. Enemies within Lost Souls take bonus damage from all sources, and double damage from her 3. Unaware enemies within Lost Souls will be drawn to any Grove that is placed within the range.

This means you have; 1. an on-cast or on-contact stun, which is useful no matter what. 2. Enemies that take bonus damage, also is useful no matter what. 3. A way for Wisp to group all enemies up around her Groves so that you can hit them with the max-damage from her 3rd ability, and it deals bonus damage because of it. 4. A psuedo stealth mechanic where you can cause a room full of Alert enemies to become Unaware, and then go to town on them with a melee or similar for it's own bonus damage on first hit.

In any situation it's useful, but has limits; if you try to cast it to prevent enemies from capturing an Interception point... not going to work, they'll wake up, see the objective, be alert and do things again. Same with a Defense or Mobile Defense. In Survivals, though, and Extermination, Sabotage, Defection, this would really useful.

Honestly...

It's just tweaks to her 1 and 3, but the change to her 4 is something I would genuinely want to see in game. We need scaling that works with what we do, not scaling single-point damage that just puts us into an animation state that we steer about.

I mean... tell me, DE, was it Destiny 2 that inspired this 4th, or was it that somebody had literally just finished reading The War of Three Worlds and thought 'the power of the sun through a portal split the moon in half, let's use that for a Warframe ability!', hmm?

More people need to see this. It's a pretty on-the-mark explaination of most of the things wrong with wisp in her current form. Namely...she's about as Wisp-like as a molotov cocktail through into a flower shop.

[Birdframe_Prime]

10 hours ago, F8ted said:

I take much more exception with her other abilities. None of them will ever be used in their current state. Save maybe double-tapping 2 to activate radial blind+damage reduction. It will never be useful as a teleport or decoy.

Honestly I would say that her 2 is going to be my most used ability on her. I saw how enemies behaved on that preview, they literally left cover to chase it, while firing. The 'aggro draw' decoys have gotten so much better over time, and I actually feel like I can trust them. It's definitely going to be an ability I can cast and just gun down enemies that aren't paying attention to me.

You're right about the double-tap, that's definitely going to be a tactic, because I really want to see how far I can take an Immortality Blind function in terms of damage mitigation, but I think that her 2 is going to have far more utility in its current state than you give it credit for. Even when you're invisible, enemies will blind-fire at you, but if they're shooting at something else entirely, that's a decent survival function.

What I was talking about in my comment is that it doesn't matter how much damage it can deal, or even that it can deal damage to enemies around with those flares, it it's not killing enemies in less than a second, then you're at the point where their damage can do the same to you. And even using this in the air won't help that tactic because enemies will blind-fire in the direction of damage if it's sustained, plus it's not exactly a stealthy ability.

As I pointed out in an earlier comment, unless its initial damage numbers are high enough to stand up to Sortie level enemies (to kill them before they can shoot back), you'll start using it and you will die using it before a crowd of the enemy do. But if it is high enough to do that, then it's a low-level nuke that people will just steer around rooms like old Ember and ruin even their own fun.

Every single time DE introduce an ability like this, it walks that line. Wisp does not have any sustained way (like Revenant does) to mitigate damage while using this function. You can jump and turn invisible, but without your Aim Glide you fall to the floor again in only a second or so. Revenant also has a movement function while using his ability and Wisp apparently does not.

She will have all the problems of this type of ability and none of the advantages to make it work.

8 hours ago, Nyraxx said:

whats the prob with revenant? His kit has nice synergy and his 4 is strong even at high levels

The problem was that he didn't and it wasn't. He was released in a mess. Same as Khora before him.

DE had to do some serious patching and updating on both of them because in Khora's case they didn't change IPS and she didn't become the flagship warframe of those changes, and in Revenant's case, he was previewed as all Vampire with only Eidolon visuals and they chose to make him an even mix of both instead, meaning that his rather useful and powerful looking Mass Sleep (because Thralls was a timed thing, but spread everywhere, and all his Thralls could be put to sleep instantly with this ability) became a 'press 4 and steer around an animation with energy drain' ability. They only added the better damage mechanics at the last minute too. 

[Sekan]

6 hours ago, Rankii said:

I heard that her skills were originally different. She had a possession-type ability and a Limbo-like pocket world that gave buffs and transportation to her totems.

I would have liked those, since I'm sick to death of damage-dealing abilities that do nothing besides that. I have guns, why would I need something that overlaps that utility. Wisp losing her ghostly aspects in favor of an ability that relies on the pressnce of another ability, and a (let's be honest here) memetic "Da powah of da sun!" damage skill that will likely falloff in any high level play just don't have a good feel to them. Yes I know it scales. It sounds like that only applies when you stay on a target, and single-target skills in a hoard-shooter seems awful. And yes I've heard the rationalization that "it's a will-o-wisp so of course it's fire", but the connection to fire ends at the aesthetic and certainly doesn't translate logically to "Place a portal to the sun and use the fire as a weapon".

Honestly I wouldn't mind at all if they Pre-Reworked her. Take those flaming abilities and give them to Ember (lord knows the poor girl needs SOMETHING to feel like she matters), and make Wisp more ghostly in how she plays. Because she's looking like she's going to be Revenant 2: Son of Khora. And to doom a frame with such a unique aesthetic and movement to such a mediocre kit is criminal. I want something fun and this set doesn't look fun...less fun when we get full Wisp teams just spamming the 4.

^This.

[Benour]

@Rankii well written exactly how i feel about her. I call her mashed potatoes, mashed ideas together. 

Shes not even out and i hate her 4 already haha. This is literally first frame i feel like has no niche at all. But will see maybe DE will listen and surprise us (gave me hard times to not make any jokes haha). Love warframe and such but this wisp frame is all over the place. 

[VVXRFRXME]

well i hope they are actually reworking her kit, tbh its feel rushed , and random, the passif and 2 is good, other is trash, stationnary, out of place, and the ult sound like a meme skill, im really upset about how pathetic she look right now even if i don't have investigate her in some hours in simulacrum, but man... a thicc spooky ghost themed frame with a  gorgeous custom animation walk/sprint,end with a mastery fodder kit..

[Ichsuisme]

I like wisp’s deploybles. It's different, it's cool. Only change I’d like to see is to have a fear CC instead of an electric shock – there’s not many sources of fear. It’d be fun just to have it so the ability could stand out some more.

 

Her 2 is too quick for me; it’s the same issue I have with Nezha’s ring. I’d love it if her decoy could hover (in the air) for just two / three seconds at the end, unaffected by duration, for a larger window. Hovering in the air would be a nice way to tie in her invisibility passive, should you teleport to it.

 

Her 4 isn’t what I was expecting as DE was showing her off. With all the reservoirs, I expected more synergy with them. I expected something along the lines of the reservoirs each manifesting a wisp decoy that could pull /taunt enemies in closer – which would make her 3 even better. Recasting her 4 before the duration ended could cause the decoys to explode with the damage scaling on how much time was still left.. but nope – giant, solar-powered death ray.. idk, it just seems boring.

[YandereWaifu]

On 2019-04-13 at 12:38 AM, Lanzeroth said:

May I note Saryn Specter for Sedna junction

i never died to any specters and i was a mag starter soooo..... 

[Guest]

18 hours ago, Rankii said:

I heard that her skills were originally different. She had a possession-type ability and a Limbo-like pocket world that gave buffs and transportation to her totems.

I would have liked those, since I'm sick to death of damage-dealing abilities that do nothing besides that. I have guns, why would I need something that overlaps that utility. Wisp losing her ghostly aspects in favor of an ability that relies on the pressnce of another ability, and a (let's be honest here) memetic "Da powah of da sun!" damage skill that will likely falloff in any high level play just don't have a good feel to them. Yes I know it scales. It sounds like that only applies when you stay on a target, and single-target skills in a hoard-shooter seems awful. And yes I've heard the rationalization that "it's a will-o-wisp so of course it's fire", but the connection to fire ends at the aesthetic and certainly doesn't translate logically to "Place a portal to the sun and use the fire as a weapon".

Honestly I wouldn't mind at all if they Pre-Reworked her. Take those flaming abilities and give them to Ember (lord knows the poor girl needs SOMETHING to feel like she matters), and make Wisp more ghostly in how she plays. Because she's looking like she's going to be Revenant 2: Son of Khora. And to doom a frame with such a unique aesthetic and movement to such a mediocre kit is criminal. I want something fun and this set doesn't look fun...less fun when we get full Wisp teams just spamming the 4.

You know, what you are suggesting doesn't look fun at all and I am pretty happy she is not a Ghost Frame. That is a disgusting cliche ... and guess what, fun is subjective. Some people just don't wanna use guns all the time, because again, guns are boring to many. Not all, sure, but there are people who are like "ok lol guns boring".

If she is gonna be Revenant 2 and the daughter of Khora, ya know, I would be very happy because Revenant is not as bad as people make him to be and Khora is actually very usable.

To doom the photokinesis Katawa Shojo to your expectation of her is also criminal.

[F8ted]

39 minutes ago, Datam4ss said:

You know, what you are suggesting doesn't look fun at all and I am pretty happy she is not a Ghost Frame. That is a disgusting cliche ... and guess what, fun is subjective. Some people just don't wanna use guns all the time, because again, guns are boring to many. Not all, sure, but there are people who are like "ok lol guns boring".

If she is gonna be Revenant 2 and the daughter of Khora, ya know, I would be very happy because Revenant is not as bad as people make him to be and Khora is actually very usable.

To doom the photokinesis Katawa Shojo to your expectation of her is also criminal.

You know what I don't understand? Why you have this sort of claim over a frame named Wisp. Like, it's a hilarious joke but really that is what she should be. Look up any sort of definition, synonym and description of a Wisp. A disgusting cliche? What the hell are you talking about? Like in other games where it has a well established niche? There is one frame that has anything to do with ghosts in this game out of thirty-nine, and that's just to summon enemies after they are killed. There are more "shield" themed frames than ghost themed. Like glad you are getting one ability you like. Could have put it on Ember and no one would have complained. You are inherently biased against wisps initial theme, making any sort of objective discussion with you difficult. Strange how you go waggling bias around as if it weren't you guilty of it.  

[SkyWitch]

I'm worried that if they do decide to rework Wisp's abilities that they'll give her current 4th ability to Ember and decide that Ember is now "reworked". The last thing Ember needs is a slow, channeled, single-target ability that will almost certainly not scale higher than level 40 enemies. Sol looks amazing! But, I'd be really surprised if it's actually useful. 

[F8ted]

7 minutes ago, SkyCakeLight said:

I'm worried that if they do decide to rework Wisp's abilities that they'll give her current 4th ability to Ember and decide that Ember is now "reworked". The last thing Ember needs is a slow, channeled, single-target ability that will almost certainly not scale higher than level 40 enemies. Sol looks amazing! But, I'd be really surprised if it's actually useful. 

That's why it's a slow, channeled ability that hits a whole room and does in fact scale, if what the development team has said is still in place. Kind of like Banshees Sound Quake. Sure, she will be locked in one position, but what enemies? Hell, it was doing radiation procs in the reveal, which means it will also confuse any enemies not killed by the blast. If it takes effort to use it, I would be surprised.

[Rankii]

3 hours ago, Datam4ss said:

You know, what you are suggesting doesn't look fun at all and I am pretty happy she is not a Ghost Frame. That is a disgusting cliche ... and guess what, fun is subjective. Some people just don't wanna use guns all the time, because again, guns are boring to many. Not all, sure, but there are people who are like "ok lol guns boring".

If she is gonna be Revenant 2 and the daughter of Khora, ya know, I would be very happy because Revenant is not as bad as people make him to be and Khora is actually very usable.

To doom the photokinesis Katawa Shojo to your expectation of her is also criminal.

So you say that it doesn't look fun at all, then immediately say fun is subjective? The point is we have plenty of channeled damage dealing abilities. Revaenant has one, Garuda was going to have one, and there's plenty of ones that exist before (including ember, who could use a new one anyways). If you want to talk about "disgusting cliches" let's talk about that one. The game is also already flooded with damage-dealing frames and many less with skills focused around utility and especially ones with interesting or unique gimmicks. You may find guns boring, but there's already plenty of frames where you don't essentially need ones, like Nidus which also happens to be a remarkably strong frame with a unique gimmick. 

Also you seem to misunderstand or are likely intentionally ignoring why the comparison to Khroa and Revenat is relevant. It's not because they're bad, though I'm the only revenant I ever see in missions since they nerfed his 4, it's because their abilities have had dramatic changes that needed additional changes after their launch and much complaining on the forums, with Revenant even having a skill replaced with a big flashy damage dealing beam. Revenant had a mass sleep/vampirism for his 4, and Khora was supposed to be the shining star of the damage changes to Impact, Slash, and Puncture. The former's skill was changed and most of his abilities tweaked so that he's even usable, and the latter's damage gimmick and exalted whip were outright dumped. They aren't bad frames but they were rushed and underwent so many last-minute changes that it'd be laughable if it weren't so disappointing. 

It's clear there's a ghostly frame in there, with her passive and 2 showing the bits of the original intent, but with one ability being entirely reliant on another one being active, and one clearly being out of place and out of line with her look and style, you would have to be blind to not see it...which is probably why you mentioned Katawa Shojo: you can relate to it personally.