Birdframe_Prime Posted April 17, 2019 Share Posted April 17, 2019 1 hour ago, F8ted said: Now a lot of your comments seem to assume she cannot just also be wily and dodge some missiles and step out of sapper orbs, but some validly do propose that enemies exist and by sitting locked in an animation, even while mobile, can be a deadly level of inconvenient. You see, from experience of playing a lot of support frames and a heavy amount of a frame that only has to worry about AoE effects (Zephyr, if you didn't already realise ^^) I have to say that the nuker frames really don't have a lot of sway over things that appear and launch while they're casting. So, for example, the Bombard Rockets would be very hard to dodge if you were in a jogging-pace speed animation instead of with full movement faculties. Also, I know of very few abilities that actually directly damage Sapper Orbs before and sometimes after they begin their damage phase, and if that's in your way down a corridor and you're, just for argument's sake, using an ability that takes up half the screen with a giant flaring laser of sun energy, how likely are you to notice and not walk through a little circle of blue on the ground capable of reducing most frames to bleed-out in seconds? I mean... I've genuinely seen players walk around a corner into an Ancient Roar (which only has an effective range of about a meter or so) and die nearly instantly. Hazards like that are not always avoidable, and especially not so when you're in a locked animation as we saw in then DevStream. It really is the bane of an Oberon player's life to not only have to go pick up yet another downed team member, but also to have to wade through the multiple Sapper Orbs that they didn't even notice (usually in Operator mode, because, you know, logic). So that's personal experience of players using abilities that they think will be awesome and flashy, but then they don't notice that they're not killing everything before it kills them. 1 hour ago, F8ted said: Now I'm not saying you are proposing something preposterous like that. In fact, if reading your preferences it seems you believe in the viability of her 3. Now again I have nothing against a point blank area of effect ability. Actually, see, this is where I had my idea and really wanted to work with it. So, my original point was that abilities have to do something first, and then any 'synergy' or 'bonus' is extra for when you've put in additional casts to achieve that. So the current 1/3 combo is kind of useless, as the 1 is too bitty and compartmentalised, and the 3 literally has no function without the 1. My proposal was to take the idea of a 'buff banner' placement ability and use it in a more logical and ally-friendly way, and then give a bonus effect to the caster for having multiple casts. So her 1, I proposed to switch it to a limited number of 'buff banners' (that I dubbed 'groves') where all three buffs that Wisp currently applies are then applied just for coming into contact with it. I think that a placed location for buffing a limited duration can work in Warframe because of the many, many game modes that require durations of times spent in a single location, or backtracking, or even just outright camping. But if you have to cast three times just to get each individual buff effect, and then travel to all three totems to gain full buffs? Too broken-up, too fiddly. One location, run through it, you have buffs. Works even if you just cast one at the beginning of a Capture because, as shown, it features a speed buff too. The bonus is that Wisp could then transport between her 1 casts, her Groves, able to cast one in a location, go elsewhere, cast a second, and then jump back to the first is a mechanic that is completely unused in Warframe currently, and could create some great options for players in Survivals, Defection and so on (warping between the A, B and C points on Defection, particularly, would be very helpful). Limit the amount of Groves to 3, and you're then encouraged to put all three down in strategic places. Two simple effects; a buff for everyone and a transport for Wisp herself. But potentially, as I've said, very, very useful. Her 3, then, is where I'd take advantage of it a little. A radial damage burst, centred on Wisp, is the basic initial form of the ability. The scaling for the solo cast is that it deals multiplied damage for the number of enemies around you. Synergise that with her 2 by default so that you use the teleport/blind/invulnerability to get into the locaiton with the most enemies, temporarily stagger them so they can't move, and then drop a 3 for damage. Simple, clean, no mess and no fuss. Considering this combo to move into areas with impunity, you could even drastically limit the range, so that without dropping her Power Strength, you could not get an area nuke, just a Nova AMD bomb (speaking of, that's one of the most instantly damaging and fastest repeatable DPS functions in the game. On a 2 cast. Along with the single most damaging ability in game, if you use the correct weapon combo, of Magnetise on Mag's 2... high damage abilities appear wherever, my friend ^^). The bonus effect is that, as DE previewed, the effect also radiates from her placed 1 Groves. And each of them gets the same bonus, where the number of enemies within range boosts the damage to compensate. You only get the 3 groves, instead of the current 6 wells, but the potential is higher. A smart player would then see the combo where you could place these Groves tactically so that casting from the mid-point between all three would create a potentially much higher radius (a balance would be that the scaling isn't based on the overall ability range, but the enemies within the range of each radial point) of damage. But rarely is that going to be perfect. A smarter player would place groves within each others' radius and cast from within them to get four overlapping instances of damage that all share many of the enemies that multiply the damage. And that may be more likely on things like Defense or Mobile Defense rather than on a run-and-gun, but it's possible ^^ But then... this is where my whole idea for a new 4 came in. Back in the earlier comments, I proposed 'Lost Souls', an area of effect similar to Oberon's Hallowed Ground, but with some different functions that I have seen in game, but not used enough so far. So the proposal was to have a 4 that created a low-level carpet of fog (just like Hallowed Ground with its grass), that stuns on cast, applies a damage multiplier to them (a small one, like 20% affected by Strength) and can set enemies to the Unaware state. If, of course, they come out of the stun and they're supposed to be attacking a Defense objective? If they were attacking you? If you had a Rescue Target? They carry on. They retarget the objective and keep going. If, however, there are Groves within the area of Lost Souls? They come out of the stagger and are drawn towards the nearest Grove (think Djinn's Fatal Attraction, it only lasts a few seconds for each enemy, so make use of it where it's tactically best to place it). You can see where I'm going here, can't you? Enemies are drawn towards Groves and you can press 3 on the clustered enemies. To be a little cheeky, I also suggested that 3 deals double damage, not the regular damage modifier, to enemies in Lost Souls. That double-damage is so that, if you cast it for the stun, then cast 3 without placing groves down, you still get the bonus, you still get a better result. The damage multiplier is so that enemies can also be killed by allies just for being there. You don't even need her 1 or her 3 to get the damage, you can simply stun-and-gun. See? Effects as default, and then bonus effects for your other casts, if and only if, you put in that extra effort. Now, what I count as the best bit of all this, is that it keeps the first three abilities that DE wanted to give her, the ones they were so proud of, but in a more streamlined and potentially better form. It then gets rid of an animation-locked damage ability and makes for a wide area buff to everything you do and for your entire team to take advantage of too. It's that hybrid between Damage and CC that everyone really wants out of the game right now, the balance between utility and killing the enemy. What do you think? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
F8ted Posted April 17, 2019 Share Posted April 17, 2019 7 hours ago, Birdframe_Prime said: You see, from experience of playing a lot of support frames and a heavy amount of a frame that only has to worry about AoE effects (Zephyr, if you didn't already realise ^^) I have to say that the nuker frames really don't have a lot of sway over things that appear and launch while they're casting. So, for example, the Bombard Rockets would be very hard to dodge if you were in a jogging-pace speed animation instead of with full movement faculties. Also, I know of very few abilities that actually directly damage Sapper Orbs before and sometimes after they begin their damage phase, and if that's in your way down a corridor and you're, just for argument's sake, using an ability that takes up half the screen with a giant flaring laser of sun energy, how likely are you to notice and not walk through a little circle of blue on the ground capable of reducing most frames to bleed-out in seconds? I mean... I've genuinely seen players walk around a corner into an Ancient Roar (which only has an effective range of about a meter or so) and die nearly instantly. Hazards like that are not always avoidable, and especially not so when you're in a locked animation as we saw in then DevStream. It really is the bane of an Oberon player's life to not only have to go pick up yet another downed team member, but also to have to wade through the multiple Sapper Orbs that they didn't even notice (usually in Operator mode, because, you know, logic). So that's personal experience of players using abilities that they think will be awesome and flashy, but then they don't notice that they're not killing everything before it kills them. Actually, see, this is where I had my idea and really wanted to work with it. So, my original point was that abilities have to do something first, and then any 'synergy' or 'bonus' is extra for when you've put in additional casts to achieve that. So the current 1/3 combo is kind of useless, as the 1 is too bitty and compartmentalised, and the 3 literally has no function without the 1. My proposal was to take the idea of a 'buff banner' placement ability and use it in a more logical and ally-friendly way, and then give a bonus effect to the caster for having multiple casts. So her 1, I proposed to switch it to a limited number of 'buff banners' (that I dubbed 'groves') where all three buffs that Wisp currently applies are then applied just for coming into contact with it. I think that a placed location for buffing a limited duration can work in Warframe because of the many, many game modes that require durations of times spent in a single location, or backtracking, or even just outright camping. But if you have to cast three times just to get each individual buff effect, and then travel to all three totems to gain full buffs? Too broken-up, too fiddly. One location, run through it, you have buffs. Works even if you just cast one at the beginning of a Capture because, as shown, it features a speed buff too. The bonus is that Wisp could then transport between her 1 casts, her Groves, able to cast one in a location, go elsewhere, cast a second, and then jump back to the first is a mechanic that is completely unused in Warframe currently, and could create some great options for players in Survivals, Defection and so on (warping between the A, B and C points on Defection, particularly, would be very helpful). Limit the amount of Groves to 3, and you're then encouraged to put all three down in strategic places. Two simple effects; a buff for everyone and a transport for Wisp herself. But potentially, as I've said, very, very useful. Her 3, then, is where I'd take advantage of it a little. A radial damage burst, centred on Wisp, is the basic initial form of the ability. The scaling for the solo cast is that it deals multiplied damage for the number of enemies around you. Synergise that with her 2 by default so that you use the teleport/blind/invulnerability to get into the locaiton with the most enemies, temporarily stagger them so they can't move, and then drop a 3 for damage. Simple, clean, no mess and no fuss. Considering this combo to move into areas with impunity, you could even drastically limit the range, so that without dropping her Power Strength, you could not get an area nuke, just a Nova AMD bomb (speaking of, that's one of the most instantly damaging and fastest repeatable DPS functions in the game. On a 2 cast. Along with the single most damaging ability in game, if you use the correct weapon combo, of Magnetise on Mag's 2... high damage abilities appear wherever, my friend ^^). The bonus effect is that, as DE previewed, the effect also radiates from her placed 1 Groves. And each of them gets the same bonus, where the number of enemies within range boosts the damage to compensate. You only get the 3 groves, instead of the current 6 wells, but the potential is higher. A smart player would then see the combo where you could place these Groves tactically so that casting from the mid-point between all three would create a potentially much higher radius (a balance would be that the scaling isn't based on the overall ability range, but the enemies within the range of each radial point) of damage. But rarely is that going to be perfect. A smarter player would place groves within each others' radius and cast from within them to get four overlapping instances of damage that all share many of the enemies that multiply the damage. And that may be more likely on things like Defense or Mobile Defense rather than on a run-and-gun, but it's possible ^^ But then... this is where my whole idea for a new 4 came in. Back in the earlier comments, I proposed 'Lost Souls', an area of effect similar to Oberon's Hallowed Ground, but with some different functions that I have seen in game, but not used enough so far. So the proposal was to have a 4 that created a low-level carpet of fog (just like Hallowed Ground with its grass), that stuns on cast, applies a damage multiplier to them (a small one, like 20% affected by Strength) and can set enemies to the Unaware state. If, of course, they come out of the stun and they're supposed to be attacking a Defense objective? If they were attacking you? If you had a Rescue Target? They carry on. They retarget the objective and keep going. If, however, there are Groves within the area of Lost Souls? They come out of the stagger and are drawn towards the nearest Grove (think Djinn's Fatal Attraction, it only lasts a few seconds for each enemy, so make use of it where it's tactically best to place it). You can see where I'm going here, can't you? Enemies are drawn towards Groves and you can press 3 on the clustered enemies. To be a little cheeky, I also suggested that 3 deals double damage, not the regular damage modifier, to enemies in Lost Souls. That double-damage is so that, if you cast it for the stun, then cast 3 without placing groves down, you still get the bonus, you still get a better result. The damage multiplier is so that enemies can also be killed by allies just for being there. You don't even need her 1 or her 3 to get the damage, you can simply stun-and-gun. See? Effects as default, and then bonus effects for your other casts, if and only if, you put in that extra effort. Now, what I count as the best bit of all this, is that it keeps the first three abilities that DE wanted to give her, the ones they were so proud of, but in a more streamlined and potentially better form. It then gets rid of an animation-locked damage ability and makes for a wide area buff to everything you do and for your entire team to take advantage of too. It's that hybrid between Damage and CC that everyone really wants out of the game right now, the balance between utility and killing the enemy. What do you think? Okay then I had to go dig through the thread yet again to view your original post, but with information in mind, I think I can better comment. To be sure your version of an ult is impressive. Strong utility vibe coming from most redesigns and the ult. Perfectly cohesive with the rest of the kit you have designed. As you have just mentioned the synergy does render the combination more useful. Lowering the number of casts required for her 1 to be effective on it's own is great. Giving it a dual purpose as an enemy tractor beam to lure enemies to their deaths is visibly awesome. Kind of wish Lantern had such grace. I love that the idea of keeping enemies from being alerted was actually more widespread than I thought. A major downer any time you are trying to stealth is the loss of stealth affinity bonus. It may be a little presumptuous of me, but I would actually imagine this would allow one to kill enemies with abilities and maintain that bonus. That's spectacular. In addition having a room sized place able buff is significantly more ergonomic than otherwise, and that's exactly what you propose Lost Soul's does. If anything there is one major hangup I am having, it is very similar to your hangup over mine. I believe the absolute notion of having these totem buffs is absurd, and you believe having an animation locked channel ability is absurd. Both have proper places in the game in very rare, largely still useful abilities. Referencing Nidus for example, his Ravenous "Buff area" is quite a powerful ability. Mesa's Peacekeeper "Channel Lock" is basically the foundation of it's usability. We have both taken steps to reduce the initial concerns these types of abilities by their very nature possess. To make a place able buff do more than a place able buff is to increase it's viability. To make a channeled nuke do more than a channeled nuke is to increase it's viability. In both cases we still recklessly push back on the notion that they should not be included by putting very good reasons for them in the first place. Honestly perhaps the best option lies somewhere in the middle. It was part of neither of our concepts and created in a vacuum, but if we distill the parts I don't personally like from the 1/3 combo, and keep the parts to aim a nuke we could slap most of it on the one ability. Consider this: Create a well of darkness at target location. The well causes damage on impact and radiates damage every second for a duration. Allies that pass near the well gain buffs. Could still be a point for your 4 to draw enemies in, nukes a little more like you want it to, would largely be her 1/3 combined. No more channel lock. Also it would free up another ability slot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doommoose22 Posted April 17, 2019 Share Posted April 17, 2019 (edited) on most of your points, I disagree, I personally have always loved frames based around deployment abilities that involve thought for maximum effect. I understand the ire towards abilities like hers since the game revolves around gotta go fast, and think her ult should be a focal turret that once deployed stays in position and fires a beam towards the players reticle and acts as a channel ability, since shes gonna be squishy I don't see the point in giving her an ability that drastically lowers her movement capability. and vaubans main issue is not the fact that his skills are stationary, they are bad because they don't do enough damage or require you to precisely place mines in choke points for absolutely no payoff. Edited April 17, 2019 by doommoose22 typo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(XBOX)Knight Raime Posted April 18, 2019 Share Posted April 18, 2019 On 2019-04-16 at 1:16 PM, Lucian_Adrion said: Is it so bad that a frame does damage? Is it so bad that frame lacks utility? I ask these cause I really need to know why people are so mad over a frame that is not out yet. You know that frames are their own style of gameplay right? Much less of what it used to be in the past, frames today are more freeform in their usage and play style coming with their own mini game of sorts. I feel as though, and I say this with respect, many min maxers, i myself am one to an extent, just do not have fun with th game anymore. Frames are sought after for two reasons. Something interesting that varies up gameplay or something that replaces a current frame in value to vary up gameplay. If a frame does neither that's a bit of a problem. On 2019-04-16 at 1:16 PM, Lucian_Adrion said: Why is it only about how good a frame is? Why is that metric we measure on? Prehaps being spoiled by the designs of Nidus and Mesa have ruined the Warframe community to the point where we can not accept even a slight deviation from concepts like such. Take Khora for example. I feel that many still hate her and think she is bad but that is completely unwaranted. She is nigh unkillable in endgame levels. Has utility, cc, and damage that scales. Yet because she didnt have and exalted whip she consider bad only because of her meh release. Min maxers probally wanted to do spin to win on her. I would say Nidus spoiled us. Mesa isn't anything special design wise. She just feels fun because bullet hell. It just so happens that she also gets 90% DR with an ability that means her fun is also viable. That being said there isn't anything wrong with expecting close to the quality of frames Like Nidus. Khora's main hate is more how her pet is basically a glorified heal bot. Her being the first potential summoner kit and it not turning out that way is the painful part. The exalted whip being absent was a hot take hate. Once DE polished her up that disappeared. On 2019-04-16 at 1:16 PM, Lucian_Adrion said: Lets look at Gara. The secomd they nerfed the wall everyon forgot about her. Meanwhile, she still had infinite scaling damage and 90% that give that damage field to everyone with the dr as well. Also he first ability does made damage and is a hard cc. Did you know her fourth makes you do more damage to vitrified enemies and refreshes your 2?. Sure you dont really use her 3 but why was she thrown away? Gara was never really thrown away. She's always been considered good and a top pick. On 2019-04-16 at 1:16 PM, Lucian_Adrion said: Revenant Revenant Revenant. I am a huge advocate for this frame because of his one shot potential and his insane sustain making him, say with me, nigh unkillable. I feel that his pore is a garbage fire but his kit is sound and rather well designed. It is a closed system resource user and yes it is more efficient to use other frame but that's not the point of picking a frame yes? Our operators can heal us. Survival isn't an issue these days for even squishy frames. And there are far better synergistic ways that let people live forever. Mesmer skin is a slow cast 2 handed ground animation that doesn't offer anything gameplay wise to go along with it. That's real bad. On 2019-04-16 at 1:16 PM, Lucian_Adrion said: Garuda. Say it again! Nigh unkillable with massive infinite scaling dps tools in her kit and yet! People hate her and say she is bad. I am confused at this one in particular especially since i have started playing her even more. She is a monster when it comes to sustain and damage with some utility in there as well allowing you to use guns that you couldnt before because she adds slash! Garuda's problem is she fits absolutely no where. Her main selling point is forced slash procs. Please tell me one place where that is a desired thing to have. I'll wait. On 2019-04-16 at 1:16 PM, Lucian_Adrion said: Baruuk. ONE MORE TIME PEOPLE, nigh unkillable. Baruuk is well designed around his concept and evrrything in his kit makes sense. He just not played because people say he does scale but he does. He clears trash mobs well into the triple digits and if he slide attacks, can do the same for heavy units. He aslo offers alot of control with his ultimate. Again. Survival isn't and hasn't been an issue for several months now. The entire point of his kit is abusing it so you unlock use of his 4. His 4 doesn't feel worth the effort. If I wanted a mass killing 4 exalted I can go play exalibur. Only thing Baruuk has on him is tanky. Which excal doesn't even need. On 2019-04-16 at 1:16 PM, Lucian_Adrion said: The whole point im trying to make is that people are missing the essence of what warframe is. The warframes themselves. I played Nezha when he was "bad" and yet I never felt like he was bad at all. Sure i made post on the forum to ket some QoL things done but other than that i loved him deeply and played him because he was fun for me. I feel people have lost that thought. Warframe is not about having fun anymore. It is about how good a frame is and that to me is highly detrimental. But hey thats my two cents take it as you will When your game is based on grinding as efficiently as possible to have even some of the newer additions to the game "fun" isn't going to cut it. You can like these frames. but denying the fact that they could be a lot better only shoots the game in the foot later on. Because you're accepting mediocrity. Which means the devs are expected to do less. So we get less. 5 hours ago, doommoose22 said: on most of your points, I disagree, I personally have always loved frames based around deployment abilities that involve thought for maximum effect. I understand the ire towards abilities like hers since the game revolves around gotta go fast, and think her ult should be a focal turret that once deployed stays in position and fires a beam towards the players reticle and acts as a channel ability, since shes gonna be squishy I don't see the point in giving her an ability that drastically lowers her movement capability. and vaubans main issue is not the fact that his skills are stationary, they are bad because they don't do enough damage or require you to precisely place mines in choke points for absolutely no payoff. I wholeheartedly disagree. My main reason I don't play Vauban is because of his casting. I hate how it feels on a pad. It cramps my hands. And there is literally no way for me to tell if one of my mines went off unless i'm watching it. I don't care if the effects are not top tier. I hate having to constantly cycle and recast and babysit my mines. it's far less stressful to just ignore them entirely and only use bastelle/vortex. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stygie Posted April 18, 2019 Share Posted April 18, 2019 2 hours ago, (XB1)Knight Raime said: Frames are sought after for two reasons. Something interesting that varies up gameplay or something that replaces a current frame in value to vary up gameplay. If a frame does neither that's a bit of a problem. Revenant changes how you play and is completely different that most frames. Baruuk as well. And Garuda and Hildryn. So your first point is null. They also do provide value if you take the time to play them that is. I would say Nidus spoiled us. Mesa isn't anything special design wise. She just feels fun because bullet hell. It just so happens that she also gets 90% DR with an ability that means her fun is also viable. That being said there isn't anything wrong with expecting close to the quality of frames Like Nidus. Khora's main hate is more how her pet is basically a glorified heal bot. Her being the first potential summoner kit and it not turning out that way is the painful part. The exalted whip being absent was a hot take hate. Once DE polished her up that disappeared. Alright I can agree Venari is just a heal bot, however, she was never stated as a summoner. Expecting that was ludicrous at best so that reasoning is null as well Gara was never really thrown away. She's always been considered good and a top pick. No she wasn't. After the efforts of many youtubers and tenno who played her after the nerfs did ahe finaly get recognized as a good pick. Our operators can heal us. Survival isn't an issue these days for even squishy frames. And there are far better synergistic ways that let people live forever. Mesmer skin is a slow cast 2 handed ground animation that doesn't offer anything gameplay wise to go along with it. That's real bad. Please explain this? You dont have problems with Nova's null star casting(similar cast times nova is slightly faster) and yet her ability is weaker overall. Losing dr as the particles fly away while Revenant can recast, has full invincibility to enemies and self damage, and stujs enemies that shoot at him for a significant peroid of time and he can give it to allies. Also not everyone has operator arcanes so that reasoning gets thrown out as well. Is he perfect? No he is not. However, you give credit where credit is due. Garuda's problem is she fits absolutely no where. Her main selling point is forced slash procs. Please tell me one place where that is a desired thing to have. I'll wait. Wow. And here i thought we could have a civil discussion. Guess not. You are telling me and im sorry but i have to ask because you reasoning baffles me. You are saying that additional slash procs have no place in the game? The same proc that deal true damage that by passes sheilds and armor? The same proc that give additional damage for free? The same proc that increases dps? The same proc that garuda and make proc 100% the time off weapon shot even with weapons that dont have innate slash? See how ridiculous you sound?. Again. Survival isn't and hasn't been an issue for several months now. The entire point of his kit is abusing it so you unlock use of his 4. His 4 doesn't feel worth the effort. If I wanted a mass killing 4 exalted I can go play exalibur. Only thing Baruuk has on him is tanky. Which excal doesn't even need. Like i said, his own mini game. Also, you can play exc you are free to. But ill play Baruuk any other day of the week. Why? Cause his kit flows and makes sense. Excals kit? Hurr durr i press four and do some slide attacks for short range cc. Or i spam one only or spam 3 oh wait that got nerfed. And then there is the 2 spamers with coved lethality. How is that good? That is bland and on sided. There is no flow or consequence just one mimded boring stale gameplay. Baruuk offers more that Excal but takes a hit in the damage department because of his tanking capabilities. Filled with fallacy arent you? When your game is based on grinding as efficiently as possible to have even some of the newer additions to the game "fun" isn't going to cut it. You can like these frames. but denying the fact that they could be a lot better only shoots the game in the foot later on. Because you're accepting mediocrity. Which means the devs are expected to do less. So we get less. What you think mediocrity is creativity. But i get it. You want everything to be op op op. A ome track ticket to victory. I hope you some how remember that you are playing a game for fun. The devs are trying to get us to slow down and bit and play differently hut i guess if we are going to have people like you telling them that any idea they try is complete garbage because it cant clear lvl 200 heavy gunner is in one shot then im sorry but you are hopeless Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
F8ted Posted April 18, 2019 Share Posted April 18, 2019 @Lucian_Adrion You may want to fix that quote there, it's basically impossible to read like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(XBOX)Knight Raime Posted April 18, 2019 Share Posted April 18, 2019 2 hours ago, Lucian_Adrion said: Revenant changes how you play and is completely different that most frames. Baruuk as well. And Garuda and Hildryn. So your first point is null. They also do provide value if you take the time to play them that is. This is a re-occuring thing in your reply so i'll just state it here. Saying my points are null with following a flimsey statement does not make it so. If you can't properly counter a point i've listed in detail then don't bother responding to said point and move to one that you can do. 2 hours ago, Lucian_Adrion said: Alright I can agree Venari is just a heal bot, however, she was never stated as a summoner. Expecting that was ludicrous at best so that reasoning is null as well She might not have. But you're splitting hairs. The point is that her pet was meant to be a big part of her kit. That was one of the many things advertized about her in her development cycle. It ended up not being that way. Which is my personal major let down for her. But I still love her regardless. 2 hours ago, Lucian_Adrion said: No she wasn't. After the efforts of many youtubers and tenno who played her after the nerfs did ahe finaly get recognized as a good pick. I recall a backlash of her walls not being invulnerable anymore. Saying that they'd just take Frost. But iirc they didn't change much with her kit beyond that. So it's not like she flew under the radar. It was a heat of the moment anger episode. I don't ever recall her being called bad all around. Certainly not to the levels of Titania or Revenant. 2 hours ago, Lucian_Adrion said: Please explain this? You dont have problems with Nova's null star casting(similar cast times nova is slightly faster) and yet her ability is weaker overall. Losing dr as the particles fly away while Revenant can recast, has full invincibility to enemies and self damage, and stujs enemies that shoot at him for a significant peroid of time and he can give it to allies. Also not everyone has operator arcanes so that reasoning gets thrown out as well. Is he perfect? No he is not. However, you give credit where credit is due. Nullstar iirc can be casted in the air and is a one handed animation. Means more smooth transition in and out of the ability. Better is debatable. she has an augment that lets her gain stars back without having to recast. Which can be seen as an up over Revenant's mesmer skin. My complaint about the ability on him is it's terrible feeling via slow and stuck to the ground. And that it clashes with his kit. Making his passive impossible to proc and the main point of Reave (health/shield regen) pointless. 2 hours ago, Lucian_Adrion said: Wow. And here i thought we could have a civil discussion. Guess not. You are telling me and im sorry but i have to ask because you reasoning baffles me. You are saying that additional slash procs have no place in the game? The same proc that deal true damage that by passes sheilds and armor? The same proc that give additional damage for free? The same proc that increases dps? The same proc that garuda and make proc 100% the time off weapon shot even with weapons that dont have innate slash? See how ridiculous you sound?. Dunno why you're being so aggressive. Any of the top tier dps frames can kill enemies just fine without her slash procs. We can make our own melee weapons and secondaries which vastly out perform normal weapons and can kill level 200 enemies without the aid of Garuda. And all the top tier primaries can melt those same leveled enemies in nearly the same time as our custom made weapons without help. It seems you've misunderstood my point. I'm not saying her capability of forcing slash procs is a bad thing to have. I'm saying that I don't ever see Garuda being asked for. I am saying that our weapons alone can kill 200+ level heavy armored enemies without it easily. I am saying she doesn't really help any of the top pick dps frames because their lethality is already insane without her. Garuda isn't bad. She just isn't a meta pick. 3 hours ago, Lucian_Adrion said: Like i said, his own mini game. Also, you can play exc you are free to. But ill play Baruuk any other day of the week. Why? Cause his kit flows and makes sense. Excals kit? Hurr durr i press four and do some slide attacks for short range cc. Or i spam one only or spam 3 oh wait that got nerfed. And then there is the 2 spamers with coved lethality. How is that good? That is bland and on sided. There is no flow or consequence just one mimded boring stale gameplay. Baruuk offers more that Excal but takes a hit in the damage department because of his tanking capabilities. Filled with fallacy arent you? Baruuk's kit stumbles over itself. Lull's sleep effect is negated by his desolate hands when they hit them. His desolate hands doesn't give him consistent DR because they always fly at enemies unless you nuke your range. Which ruins lull. Not to mention elude doubles the range in which those daggers seek enemies. And giving them to allies doesn't give them DR. The best way to play baruuk is to nuke your duration and have high range so you can spam out your abilities to burn your erosion meter away. I wouldn't mind his abilities effects being secondary to their primary goal of burning meter if his 4 actually felt good to use at high level. But it doesn't against heavy armored enemies. His combos are cool. It sets his exalted aside as being a unique one and not just a damage ability. Unfortunately the cc is the worst kind being ragdoll which hurts both your teams and your own DPS. You really didn't need to bash on Excal. Not very mature of you. You didn't really counter my point about him. Just called him boring and insulted him. 3 hours ago, Lucian_Adrion said: What you think mediocrity is creativity. But i get it. You want everything to be op op op. A ome track ticket to victory. I hope you some how remember that you are playing a game for fun. The devs are trying to get us to slow down and bit and play differently hut i guess if we are going to have people like you telling them that any idea they try is complete garbage because it cant clear lvl 200 heavy gunner is in one shot then im sorry but you are hopeless I particularly like this statement the most. Because it really just sums up how you've approached this entire response. You've basically taken offense to someone disagreeing with you and then went out to personally attack the person when you could. You didn't really counter any point that was made. You attempted it once with the talk Of revenant's mesmer skin. The rest was just dismissive trash talking. I explained the negatives/perceived downsides to the frames you listed and attempted to explain why people have been increasingly critical about Warframes as of late. You can disagree if you want, i'm not here to try to convince you. Just to inform you since it genuinely seemed like you wanted to know the other half of this discussion. I'm not a min maxer. I don't play the most optimally. I was merely informing you of that side of the game. In their eyes if the gameplay isn't interesting enough to warrent playing or doesn't out right replace something currently being used then it's a failure to them. There is nothing wrong with that statement. It's just a different style of play. In my eyes i've always liked Khora, Gara, and Garuda. I initially liked Baruuk until I spend some good time with him. He's still alright. But overall he needs a lot of polish if I want to play him a lot more. The only two frames you've mentioned that I out right dislike Is revenant and Hyldrin. And i'll avoid going into why to not make this reply any longer than it already is. For the record those are the only 2 frames DE has ever released that i've genuinely disliked. With what I know of whisp I mostly like her current kit. My main issue being her 1. And that her 4 seems to be just a damage ability that leaves her rather vulnerable. I don't mind pure damage abilities if they're designed well. But it's getting a little tiring that DE (aside from Hyldrin) has been on a binge of having a damage ultimate lately. When those are almost always nerfed because they end up being too good. And then they end up not being worth the cost. But preference wise I always prefer synergy and utility above everything. So if her current 4 had some direct synergy with the rest of her kit it would be more palletable for me. I urge you to think a little more before you respond to me again. I really would dislike having to write you off and ignore further replies. But if you can't avoid making assumptions about myself and can't avoid trying to attack or dismiss me then you're a waste of time and energy. I rarely come on here anyway because I quit playing months ago. I don't need nor want to come back to poor responses such as yours. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stygie Posted April 18, 2019 Share Posted April 18, 2019 9 hours ago, (XB1)Knight Raime said: This is a re-occuring thing in your reply so i'll just state it here. Saying my points are null with following a flimsey statement does not make it so. If you can't properly counter a point i've listed in detail then don't bother responding to said point and move to one that you can do. She might not have. But you're splitting hairs. The point is that her pet was meant to be a big part of her kit. That was one of the many things advertized about her in her development cycle. It ended up not being that way. Which is my personal major let down for her. But I still love her regardless. I recall a backlash of her walls not being invulnerable anymore. Saying that they'd just take Frost. But iirc they didn't change much with her kit beyond that. So it's not like she flew under the radar. It was a heat of the moment anger episode. I don't ever recall her being called bad all around. Certainly not to the levels of Titania or Revenant. Nullstar iirc can be casted in the air and is a one handed animation. Means more smooth transition in and out of the ability. Better is debatable. she has an augment that lets her gain stars back without having to recast. Which can be seen as an up over Revenant's mesmer skin. My complaint about the ability on him is it's terrible feeling via slow and stuck to the ground. And that it clashes with his kit. Making his passive impossible to proc and the main point of Reave (health/shield regen) pointless. Dunno why you're being so aggressive. Any of the top tier dps frames can kill enemies just fine without her slash procs. We can make our own melee weapons and secondaries which vastly out perform normal weapons and can kill level 200 enemies without the aid of Garuda. And all the top tier primaries can melt those same leveled enemies in nearly the same time as our custom made weapons without help. It seems you've misunderstood my point. I'm not saying her capability of forcing slash procs is a bad thing to have. I'm saying that I don't ever see Garuda being asked for. I am saying that our weapons alone can kill 200+ level heavy armored enemies without it easily. I am saying she doesn't really help any of the top pick dps frames because their lethality is already insane without her. Garuda isn't bad. She just isn't a meta pick. Baruuk's kit stumbles over itself. Lull's sleep effect is negated by his desolate hands when they hit them. His desolate hands doesn't give him consistent DR because they always fly at enemies unless you nuke your range. Which ruins lull. Not to mention elude doubles the range in which those daggers seek enemies. And giving them to allies doesn't give them DR. The best way to play baruuk is to nuke your duration and have high range so you can spam out your abilities to burn your erosion meter away. I wouldn't mind his abilities effects being secondary to their primary goal of burning meter if his 4 actually felt good to use at high level. But it doesn't against heavy armored enemies. His combos are cool. It sets his exalted aside as being a unique one and not just a damage ability. Unfortunately the cc is the worst kind being ragdoll which hurts both your teams and your own DPS. You really didn't need to bash on Excal. Not very mature of you. You didn't really counter my point about him. Just called him boring and insulted him. I particularly like this statement the most. Because it really just sums up how you've approached this entire response. You've basically taken offense to someone disagreeing with you and then went out to personally attack the person when you could. You didn't really counter any point that was made. You attempted it once with the talk Of revenant's mesmer skin. The rest was just dismissive trash talking. I explained the negatives/perceived downsides to the frames you listed and attempted to explain why people have been increasingly critical about Warframes as of late. You can disagree if you want, i'm not here to try to convince you. Just to inform you since it genuinely seemed like you wanted to know the other half of this discussion. I'm not a min maxer. I don't play the most optimally. I was merely informing you of that side of the game. In their eyes if the gameplay isn't interesting enough to warrent playing or doesn't out right replace something currently being used then it's a failure to them. There is nothing wrong with that statement. It's just a different style of play. In my eyes i've always liked Khora, Gara, and Garuda. I initially liked Baruuk until I spend some good time with him. He's still alright. But overall he needs a lot of polish if I want to play him a lot more. The only two frames you've mentioned that I out right dislike Is revenant and Hyldrin. And i'll avoid going into why to not make this reply any longer than it already is. For the record those are the only 2 frames DE has ever released that i've genuinely disliked. With what I know of whisp I mostly like her current kit. My main issue being her 1. And that her 4 seems to be just a damage ability that leaves her rather vulnerable. I don't mind pure damage abilities if they're designed well. But it's getting a little tiring that DE (aside from Hyldrin) has been on a binge of having a damage ultimate lately. When those are almost always nerfed because they end up being too good. And then they end up not being worth the cost. But preference wise I always prefer synergy and utility above everything. So if her current 4 had some direct synergy with the rest of her kit it would be more palletable for me. I urge you to think a little more before you respond to me again. I really would dislike having to write you off and ignore further replies. But if you can't avoid making assumptions about myself and can't avoid trying to attack or dismiss me then you're a waste of time and energy. I rarely come on here anyway because I quit playing months ago. I don't need nor want to come back to poor responses such as yours. Fair enough. My apologizes for being rude. I understand why people think they are bad but i am a fierce defender of the frames. I could care less about DE but the frames speak for themselves. I am surrounded by meta hounds because I like to min max at it gets all too overwhelming at times. Let me be more specific. The reasoning I have with meser skin also comes from the fact that you can make more charges for youself by killing enemies with reave. Additionally, the pillars left behind by dead thralls well automatically enthrall enemies for you. It is a closed system like i said. I have had no problems using Revenant like that even in pubs but i disagree it is harder in pubs. Revenant's issue and I guess Garuda's by extension as well is that they are built around fighting alone and they don't really apply in teamplay at all. Baruuk is in the same fold as well. I was not aware that the dahhers do not give dr to allies i figured that is what would happen if they do so that needs to change. As for them flying away that is why he had damage reduction in the passive and the ult as well. Most of the time, enemies are not even shooting at me because i spam the sleep so much. As for what I said about excalibur, I will not recant. He is very basic in comparison to other frames and I get some people might like that but it is not my drift at all. Sure he has high dps but like you said that ain't alll that special. Partly the reason why i dont use Revenant's 4th ability at all. Also i would like to know. Why do you think Titania and Hildryn are subpar? I want to know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(XBOX)Knight Raime Posted April 18, 2019 Share Posted April 18, 2019 2 hours ago, Lucian_Adrion said: Fair enough. My apologizes for being rude. I understand why people think they are bad but i am a fierce defender of the frames. I could care less about DE but the frames speak for themselves. I am surrounded by meta hounds because I like to min max at it gets all too overwhelming at times. Let me be more specific. It's not like I think say baruuk is bad design. Heck I even wrote up in Revenant's megathread a way to make his current design work without massively retooling his kit. I just think the frames can be a lot better than what DE sticks us with, and it's frustrating when it seems like they ignore feedback even when they ask for it. At least as of late. 2 hours ago, Lucian_Adrion said: The reasoning I have with meser skin also comes from the fact that you can make more charges for youself by killing enemies with reave. Additionally, the pillars left behind by dead thralls well automatically enthrall enemies for you. It is a closed system like i said. I have had no problems using Revenant like that even in pubs but i disagree it is harder in pubs. As I mentioned before the thralls created by the pillars do not turn into pillars themselves upon death. This personally has killed Revenant for me. As I enjoyed using him to create a choke point full of pillars and guiding enemies into them. It's much harder to do that when you don't have control over your own thrall count. 2 hours ago, Lucian_Adrion said: Revenant's issue and I guess Garuda's by extension as well is that they are built around fighting alone and they don't really apply in teamplay at all. That's more about how they ended up. Not that they're designed for solo. Garuda certainly isn't. She just happened to be dropped into a sandbox where self sustain is too prevelant in a coop game. 2 hours ago, Lucian_Adrion said: Baruuk is in the same fold as well. I was not aware that the dahhers do not give dr to allies i figured that is what would happen if they do so that needs to change. As for them flying away that is why he had damage reduction in the passive and the ult as well. Most of the time, enemies are not even shooting at me because i spam the sleep so much. As for what I said about excalibur, I will not recant. He is very basic in comparison to other frames and I get some people might like that but it is not my drift at all. Sure he has high dps but like you said that ain't alll that special. Partly the reason why i dont use Revenant's 4th ability at all. I know that it's one of the reasons why he's given multiple sources of DR. I'm just not a fan of using an ability that I basically have no control over. If you'd like I can attempt to find my thread about suggestions specifically for Baruuk. Again doesn't really retool his kit. Makes what he has work. My point is that in my eyes I use Baruuk for his 4. If I wanted a CC tank which is what the rest of his kit is there are better imo choices for that. His 4 HAS the potential to make me want it over all other exalted weapons. It just doesn't feel that way currently. Where as excal's to me feels fine. and I don't need to build up to use it. I can just use it in conjunction with the rest of his kit. (only issue with excal for me atm is forced executions when enemies are blinded.) 2 hours ago, Lucian_Adrion said: Also i would like to know. Why do you think Titania and Hildryn are subpar? I want to know. Titania has a few issues. Her tribute buff is still very enemy dependent. The buffs themselves are not strong even post buff. One of the buffs (and effects of her 4) makes her harder to hit via an accuracy debuff. However some enemies don't care about that stat at all and will always hit. Her lantern still floats away too much despite their attempts to anchor it down. Her 4 doesn't get any pet benefits. The butterflies she creates has little interactions with her kit. And she has to constantly enter and exit her 4 to interact with the environment. I'm not a Titania main so I'm probably missing some buggy interactions with her. Hyldrin is just missing a bunch of qol. Her balefire seems pointless as an ability. It doesn't really do anything special which most exalteds do something different to warrent the extra cost for formaing them. My current guns hit harder than it does. So I see no point in using it. Shield pillage is inconsistently effective. Because it gives you shields on a 1:1 scale and is effected on your power strength and the amount of armor/shields the effected enemy currently has. This means at low levels, infested at all, and armor outside of end game will give you very little shielding. Which kinda sucks for a frame who's abilities require shields to use. Her 3 doesn't benefit her in anyway. Her 4 is a bit clunky movement wise. You equip two balefires but the second one is purely cosmetic. If we're forced to only use her balefire in her 4 that's un acceptable. Let her be able to rapid fire her shots with a RoF increase and charge up both when we're charging. At least with Hyldrin she's got a niche in that she ignores leeches which that alone is reason to play her sometimes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toppien Posted April 19, 2019 Share Posted April 19, 2019 ahhhhh when is she going to be released?! im tired of waiting ;A; Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sekan Posted April 23, 2019 Share Posted April 23, 2019 While the discussion seems to have died down, I do want to reiterate. Wisp in her current form is not a warframe the community at large is excited about, her frames appearance does not match her theme nor abilities, and they do not match eachother. People seems vastly disappointed that they are "not" getting a ghost themed warframe as her appearance would suggest, but are instead getting flowers and sun beams. We do like the ability set that's being shown, but it does NOT match Wisp. Her 4th ability being a big fire beam (sun beam I know...) seems to raise concerns similar to the concerns regarding Revenants 4, and Garudas original 4. And on top of that it would fit someone like Ember a lot more, seeing as she is based on fire, and a huge heckin fire beam seems... well... on theme. It also strikes a lot of us as odd that Vauban is getting a rework for being too stational (which we're not against, train face needs a rework), and Wisp will have 50% of her kit be, or be relying on, stationaries. Further more as was the case with Titania, buffs we have to pick up manually are likely going to be a miss. A lot of us has thrown ideas out for alternative abilities for Wisp (Myself included) and I think none of us would mind terribly if DE let themselves be inspired by the community. I am making this post so this discussion does not die out fully. This needs to be heard/seen before Wisp is fully released and any form of full kit rework becomes impossible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EinheriarJudith Posted April 23, 2019 Share Posted April 23, 2019 15 minutes ago, Sekan said: ~snip~ i dont care about theme. what i care about is not having stationary skills with an ability wheel. skill set needs to match the pace of the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(XBOX)Knight Raime Posted April 23, 2019 Share Posted April 23, 2019 1 hour ago, Sekan said: While the discussion seems to have died down, I do want to reiterate. Wisp in her current form is not a warframe the community at large is excited about, her frames appearance does not match her theme nor abilities, and they do not match eachother. People seems vastly disappointed that they are "not" getting a ghost themed warframe as her appearance would suggest, but are instead getting flowers and sun beams. We do like the ability set that's being shown, but it does NOT match Wisp. Her 4th ability being a big fire beam (sun beam I know...) seems to raise concerns similar to the concerns regarding Revenants 4, and Garudas original 4. And on top of that it would fit someone like Ember a lot more, seeing as she is based on fire, and a huge heckin fire beam seems... well... on theme. It also strikes a lot of us as odd that Vauban is getting a rework for being too stational (which we're not against, train face needs a rework), and Wisp will have 50% of her kit be, or be relying on, stationaries. Further more as was the case with Titania, buffs we have to pick up manually are likely going to be a miss. A lot of us has thrown ideas out for alternative abilities for Wisp (Myself included) and I think none of us would mind terribly if DE let themselves be inspired by the community. I am making this post so this discussion does not die out fully. This needs to be heard/seen before Wisp is fully released and any form of full kit rework becomes impossible. I'm sure DE has seen plenty of feedback by now. Just like they always do. It just depends if they actually plan on doing anything with it or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Birdframe_Prime Posted April 23, 2019 Share Posted April 23, 2019 6 hours ago, (XB1)Knight Raime said: I'm sure DE has seen plenty of feedback by now. Just like they always do. It just depends if they actually plan on doing anything with it or not. Let's all hope that this extended time between DevStreams has given them time to actually read and digest even some of it. The knee-jerk reactions are plentiful, and I think the gist of what most of us want are in there. But having this thread prominent on the Forums for another week or so between now and the next Stream may actually work out better. If they're coming looking for it, this Megathread has most of the thought-out and well-argued stuff. Even if they have to sift through a few bad ones to get there. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigBiermonster Posted April 24, 2019 Share Posted April 24, 2019 Everyone said it, the ability design seems lazy and boring, she will be another MR fodder frame no one uses. She is "playable" in a vacuum, but we have 40 other frames to pick from, in what mission type should I pick Wisp? why? because she's fun? she doesn't seem to be. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EinheriarJudith Posted April 24, 2019 Share Posted April 24, 2019 40 minutes ago, bigBiermonster said: Everyone said it, the ability design seems lazy and boring, she will be another MR fodder frame no one uses. She is "playable" in a vacuum, but we have 40 other frames to pick from, in what mission type should I pick Wisp? why? because she's fun? she doesn't seem to be. interception, Defense, Infested Salvage, SO/ESO, Arbitration variants of listed endless, Survival, etc. literally any frame can be used in any mode of play. people will use her i will definitely use just on the fact that she is not instant map press death (a completely boring style of play imo).people said revenant would be MR fodder too, and people still play him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Z-gestalt Posted April 25, 2019 Share Posted April 25, 2019 we thought it will be a ghost ,not a gardener,and DE give us a sun laser maker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VVXRFRXME Posted April 25, 2019 Share Posted April 25, 2019 Il y a 22 heures, EinheriarJudith a dit : interception, Defense, Infested Salvage, SO/ESO, Arbitration variants of listed endless, Survival, etc. literally any frame can be used in any mode of play. people will use her i will definitely use just on the fact that she is not instant map press death (a completely boring style of play imo).people said revenant would be MR fodder too, and people still play him. its like you said, banshee is still used, she is good for interception and defense, even ok for survival (silence & sonar) have a stealth ability and squishy exactly like Wisp in the current build, does she is still used? No Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Birdframe_Prime Posted April 25, 2019 Share Posted April 25, 2019 13 hours ago, ENparadox said: we thought it will be a ghost ,not a gardener,and DE give us a sun laser maker Weird how many people think of 'Wisp' and then say 'ghost'. I mean, I find it weird because the mythology and fairy tales around Wisps are actually pretty cool and the powers you can imagine from those are far more interesting than 'ghost' powers. The Will-o'-the-Wisp stories are everything from floating lights in the dark which are malevolent spirits seeking to lead a traveller astray, to guiding lights that lead a warrior to their destiny, and in very few stories are these ever good ends... But the key difference between a Wisp and a Ghost is what they do. A ghost haunts, has kinetic powers if it's a 'poltergeist' kind of ghost, and is known to condemn people to a bad end, but are so varied overall in how they do it that to theme a frame around being 'ghostly' is just really vague. A Wisp, however, is kind of specific. It's a spirit that only haunts natural places, dark place, like ancient woodlands or swamps, they flicker in and out of sight and don't stray too far away from their given 'grove'. Wisps are seen alone and in groups, and are normally never known to hurt their 'victims' themselves, but instead lead them to places where they get themselves hurt, either by a guiding light or by hypnosis. Wisps are thought, by a couple of accounts, to be enough like insects that they have a queen, or Wisp Mother, and that this one is much more powerful or in some way capable of hurting mortals. So a few stories speak of regular Wisps leading 'victims' to a Wisp Mother that then kills them... But mostly it's to a natural trap, like a bog or a pitfall, usually hidden by mist or fog. Now, Warframe doesn't really do a lot of abilities that lead enemies around, there's Octavia's Resonator, but... that's kind of its own thing. But we do have a couple of abilities that work really well at drawing enemies. A great example is the sentinel, Djinn with Fatal Attraction, hypnotising enemies and drawing them to the sentinel, only to then proc a Corrosive attack on them all. The less impressive versions are things like Decoy or Molt, that draw aggro instead of the player, and those also work well with frames that have a way of shaking off the targeting of enemies (as Wisp will have with this passive of hers). And placed traps in Warframe? Well, we've all seen Vauban, unless you're on a mission where your objective is to stay in one place and not kill the enemies too frequently... trap type abilities aren't too useful. A ghost is just too vague, but a wisp, now... if you look at Wisp as the 'wisp mother' concept, instead, you could get some really interesting abilities. Check my earlier comments, like on page 33, and you'll see kind of what I'm getting at here ^^ Placing a 'grove' instead of a weird plant thing, and the grove is both a buff-totem for allies and a teleport function for Wisp, changing out her power of the sun-laser-pointer thing for something that debuffs enemies to take more damage from all sources then attracts those debuffed enemies to her groves so that she can deal much higher damage to them from there... All sorts of functions related to fairy tale or folk-lore Wisps. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EinheriarJudith Posted April 25, 2019 Share Posted April 25, 2019 3 minutes ago, Birdframe_Prime said: And placed traps in Warframe? Well, we've all seen Vauban, unless you're on a mission where your objective is to stay in one place and not kill the enemies too frequently... trap type abilities aren't too useful. Placing a 'grove' instead of a weird plant thing, and the grove is both a buff-totem for allies and a teleport function for Wisp, changing out her power of the sun-laser-pointer thing for something that debuffs enemies to take more damage from all sources then attracts those debuffed enemies to her groves so that she can deal much higher damage to them from there... All sorts of functions related to fairy tale or folk-lore Wisps. as you know i dont care about theme, but your suggestion i would definitely like to see be implemented. if they release her with the 1 they showed it will be one of those abilities i completely ignore just like Quiver, Mine layer, Venari Command. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigBiermonster Posted April 25, 2019 Share Posted April 25, 2019 23 hours ago, EinheriarJudith said: interception, Defense, Infested Salvage, SO/ESO, Arbitration variants of listed endless, Survival, etc. literally any frame can be used in any mode of play. people will use her i will definitely use just on the fact that she is not instant map press death (a completely boring style of play imo).people said revenant would be MR fodder too, and people still play him. Rev is still being played? he is THE definition of a MR fodder frame, he doesn't do nothing particularly well, and his 4 is boring to death - Sounds a lot like wisp in my opinion. More so, I barely ever see Rev used anywhere, and i'm pretty sure that if DE will release updated frame usage stats, he will be at the buttom with Vauban, nyx, and the rest of the "just not good enough to pick" frames. A warframe should be unique enough to be picked over the other 40, not just be powerful (they all should be in my opinion), but interesting to play. Rev is powerful, his 4 is strong, no doubt about it, but his damage is not interactive, just press 4 and see the animation, it's boring. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VVXRFRXME Posted April 25, 2019 Share Posted April 25, 2019 (edited) il y a 21 minutes, bigBiermonster a dit : Rev is still being played? he is THE definition of a MR fodder frame, he doesn't do nothing particularly well, and his 4 is boring to death - Sounds a lot like wisp in my opinion. More so, I barely ever see Rev used anywhere, and i'm pretty sure that if DE will release updated frame usage stats, he will be at the buttom with Vauban, nyx, and the rest of the "just not good enough to pick" frames. A warframe should be unique enough to be picked over the other 40, not just be powerful (they all should be in my opinion), but interesting to play. Rev is powerful, his 4 is strong, no doubt about it, but his damage is not interactive, just press 4 and see the animation, it's boring. wukong is the perfect example for this, he is is immortal but that's all, nobody play this ape bc he don't bring something 'unique design' Btw wasn't planned gas city rework and wisp drop in couple of week (5 april devstream) we are near the end of the month i don't see any news of the update and the next devstream is not until 3 May d'ont tell me will need to wait 15 may to expect it? (cuz you know execpt 1 warframe 1 boss fight and a visual retexture of plain we got nothing this year in term of content) Edited April 25, 2019 by Hex-Maniac Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigBiermonster Posted April 25, 2019 Share Posted April 25, 2019 1 hour ago, Hex-Maniac said: wukong is the perfect example for this, he is is immortal but that's all, nobody play this ape bc he don't bring something 'unique design' Btw wasn't planned gas city rework and wisp drop in couple of week (5 april devstream) we are near the end of the month i don't see any news of the update and the next devstream is not until 3 May d'ont tell me will need to wait 15 may to expect it? (cuz you know execpt 1 warframe 1 boss fight and a visual retexture of plain we got nothing this year in term of content) lets hope gas city will be a part of a bigger update, maybe the new war? Did they say gas city comes out in April? i dont think so, Maybe they planned to release wisp but i dont think it will happen since we just has a mainline update Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VVXRFRXME Posted April 25, 2019 Share Posted April 25, 2019 for wisp reb get cut before finish her words to tell us her release date, but steve said later or earlier , gas city release might be couple of week im a veteran player and since the beginning of the year i have nothing to do (level up some mastery fodder), i just did the thermia event for the rewards, that's kind of shame to let alone one of the part of your playerbase for something like 4 months (i don't call arbitration update a real update for endgame bc actually it make it worse) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Birdframe_Prime Posted April 25, 2019 Share Posted April 25, 2019 27 minutes ago, Hex-Maniac said: im a veteran player How have you been here since 2013 and not gotten bored enough to have more than 60 posts or so on the Forums? I'm as tapped out of content as you are (although I do jump in for hunting those Ephemera now, and as cop-out as Aura Forma is, I still want it), I just make up for it in extreme Theory Crafting and Forum dwelling ^^ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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