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Wisp Review/Early feedback

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40 minutes ago, bigBiermonster said:

Everyone said it, the ability design seems lazy and boring, she will be another MR fodder frame no one uses.

She is "playable" in a vacuum, but we have 40 other frames to pick from, in what mission type should I pick Wisp? why? because she's fun? she doesn't seem to be.


 

interception, Defense, Infested Salvage, SO/ESO, Arbitration variants of listed endless, Survival, etc. literally any frame can be used in any mode of play. people will use her i will definitely use just on the fact that she is not instant map press death (a completely boring style of play imo).people said revenant would be MR fodder too, and people still play him.

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we thought it will be a ghost ,not a gardener,and DE give us a sun laser maker

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Il y a 22 heures, EinheriarJudith a dit :

interception, Defense, Infested Salvage, SO/ESO, Arbitration variants of listed endless, Survival, etc. literally any frame can be used in any mode of play. people will use her i will definitely use just on the fact that she is not instant map press death (a completely boring style of play imo).people said revenant would be MR fodder too, and people still play him.

its like you said, banshee is still used, she is good for interception and defense, even ok for survival (silence & sonar) have a stealth ability and squishy exactly like  Wisp in the current build, does she is still used? No 

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13 hours ago, ENparadox said:

we thought it will be a ghost ,not a gardener,and DE give us a sun laser maker

Weird how many people think of 'Wisp' and then say 'ghost'.

I mean, I find it weird because the mythology and fairy tales around Wisps are actually pretty cool and the powers you can imagine from those are far more interesting than 'ghost' powers.

The Will-o'-the-Wisp stories are everything from floating lights in the dark which are malevolent spirits seeking to lead a traveller astray, to guiding lights that lead a warrior to their destiny, and in very few stories are these ever good ends... But the key difference between a Wisp and a Ghost is what they do.

A ghost haunts, has kinetic powers if it's a 'poltergeist' kind of ghost, and is known to condemn people to a bad end, but are so varied overall in how they do it that to theme a frame around being 'ghostly' is just really vague.

A Wisp, however, is kind of specific. It's a spirit that only haunts natural places, dark place, like ancient woodlands or swamps, they flicker in and out of sight and don't stray too far away from their given 'grove'. Wisps are seen alone and in groups, and are normally never known to hurt their 'victims' themselves, but instead lead them to places where they get themselves hurt, either by a guiding light or by hypnosis. Wisps are thought, by a couple of accounts, to be enough like insects that they have a queen, or Wisp Mother, and that this one is much more powerful or in some way capable of hurting mortals. So a few stories speak of regular Wisps leading 'victims' to a Wisp Mother that then kills them... But mostly it's to a natural trap, like a bog or a pitfall, usually hidden by mist or fog.

Now, Warframe doesn't really do a lot of abilities that lead enemies around, there's Octavia's Resonator, but... that's kind of its own thing. But we do have a couple of abilities that work really well at drawing enemies. A great example is the sentinel, Djinn with Fatal Attraction, hypnotising enemies and drawing them to the sentinel, only to then proc a Corrosive attack on them all. The less impressive versions are things like Decoy or Molt, that draw aggro instead of the player, and those also work well with frames that have a way of shaking off the targeting of enemies (as Wisp will have with this passive of hers).

And placed traps in Warframe? Well, we've all seen Vauban, unless you're on a mission where your objective is to stay in one place and not kill the enemies too frequently... trap type abilities aren't too useful.

A ghost is just too vague, but a wisp, now... if you look at Wisp as the 'wisp mother' concept, instead, you could get some really interesting abilities. Check my earlier comments, like on page 33, and you'll see kind of what I'm getting at here ^^

Placing a 'grove' instead of a weird plant thing, and the grove is both a buff-totem for allies and a teleport function for Wisp, changing out her power of the sun-laser-pointer thing for something that debuffs enemies to take more damage from all sources then attracts those debuffed enemies to her groves so that she can deal much higher damage to them from there... All sorts of functions related to fairy tale or folk-lore Wisps.

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3 minutes ago, Birdframe_Prime said:

And placed traps in Warframe? Well, we've all seen Vauban, unless you're on a mission where your objective is to stay in one place and not kill the enemies too frequently... trap type abilities aren't too useful.

Placing a 'grove' instead of a weird plant thing, and the grove is both a buff-totem for allies and a teleport function for Wisp, changing out her power of the sun-laser-pointer thing for something that debuffs enemies to take more damage from all sources then attracts those debuffed enemies to her groves so that she can deal much higher damage to them from there... All sorts of functions related to fairy tale or folk-lore Wisps.

as you know i dont care about theme, but your suggestion i would definitely like to see be implemented. if they release her with the 1 they showed it will be one of those abilities i completely ignore just like Quiver, Mine layer, Venari Command.

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23 hours ago, EinheriarJudith said:

interception, Defense, Infested Salvage, SO/ESO, Arbitration variants of listed endless, Survival, etc. literally any frame can be used in any mode of play. people will use her i will definitely use just on the fact that she is not instant map press death (a completely boring style of play imo).people said revenant would be MR fodder too, and people still play him.

Rev is still being played? he is THE definition of a MR fodder frame, he doesn't do nothing particularly well, and his 4 is boring to death - Sounds a lot like wisp in my opinion.

More so, I barely ever see Rev used anywhere, and i'm pretty sure that if DE will release updated frame usage stats, he will be at the buttom with Vauban, nyx, and the rest of the "just not good enough to pick" frames.

A warframe should be unique enough to be picked over the other 40, not just be powerful (they all should be in my opinion), but interesting to play.
Rev is powerful, his 4 is strong, no doubt about it, but his damage is not interactive, just press 4 and see the animation, it's boring.

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il y a 21 minutes, bigBiermonster a dit :

Rev is still being played? he is THE definition of a MR fodder frame, he doesn't do nothing particularly well, and his 4 is boring to death - Sounds a lot like wisp in my opinion.

More so, I barely ever see Rev used anywhere, and i'm pretty sure that if DE will release updated frame usage stats, he will be at the buttom with Vauban, nyx, and the rest of the "just not good enough to pick" frames.

A warframe should be unique enough to be picked over the other 40, not just be powerful (they all should be in my opinion), but interesting to play.
Rev is powerful, his 4 is strong, no doubt about it, but his damage is not interactive, just press 4 and see the animation, it's boring.

wukong is the perfect example for this, he is is immortal but that's all, nobody play this ape bc he don't bring something 'unique design'

Btw wasn't planned gas city rework and wisp drop in couple of week (5 april devstream) we are near the end of the month i don't see any news of the update and the next devstream is not until 3 May d'ont tell me will need to wait 15 may to expect it?  (cuz you know execpt 1 warframe 1 boss fight and a visual retexture of plain we got nothing this year in term of content)

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1 hour ago, Hex-Maniac said:

wukong is the perfect example for this, he is is immortal but that's all, nobody play this ape bc he don't bring something 'unique design'

Btw wasn't planned gas city rework and wisp drop in couple of week (5 april devstream) we are near the end of the month i don't see any news of the update and the next devstream is not until 3 May d'ont tell me will need to wait 15 may to expect it?  (cuz you know execpt 1 warframe 1 boss fight and a visual retexture of plain we got nothing this year in term of content)

lets hope gas city will be a part of a bigger update, maybe the new war? 
Did they say gas city comes out in April? i dont think so, Maybe they planned to release wisp but i dont think it will happen since we just has a mainline update

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for wisp reb get cut before finish her words to tell us her release date, but steve said later or earlier , gas city  release might be couple of week

im a veteran player and since the beginning of the year i have nothing to do (level up some mastery fodder), i just did the thermia event for the rewards, that's kind of shame to let alone one of the part of your  playerbase for something like  4 months (i don't call arbitration update a real update for endgame bc actually it make it worse)

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27 minutes ago, Hex-Maniac said:

im a veteran player

How have you been here since 2013 and not gotten bored enough to have more than 60 posts or so on the Forums?

I'm as tapped out of content as you are (although I do jump in for hunting those Ephemera now, and as cop-out as Aura Forma is, I still want it), I just make up for it in extreme Theory Crafting and Forum dwelling ^^

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Theory Crafting in simulacrum and cheese strat, that's it, for the post i don't talk a lot its just bc wisp was themed on  ghost/will o wisp, and i love those spooky things, so i find interesting to  interact with others

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I don't see the problem people have with those channeled abilities, it's an ability type like any other. Don't use it if you don't like it, as simple as that. Don't tear down concepts others would really enjoy, just because you don't like it-- There isn't only one playstyle, keep that in mind--

I see a lot of complaining about her 1st being stationary, can we just like summon creatures from her wisp dimension that follows you/teammates or stay put when you decide?

I also see a lot of hate for the rest of her kit. First, WE HAVEN'T TRIED HER YET, so we basically have no information to build a proper opinion and/or provide proper feedback; Second, it's only hate for hate, no real solutions are proposed.

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2 hours ago, hy_im_death said:

I don't see the problem people have with those channeled abilities, it's an ability type like any other. Don't use it if you don't like it, as simple as that.

Okay, allow me to respectfully explain in a short few points of summary;

First, according to the preview and later tweets, when you use her 4, that's it, you're stuck using her 4 until you turn it off. This is pretty counter to the way that other frames and the rest of the game functions, disallowing the use of her other abilities, her mobility, her passive invisibility, weapons and Operator mode. It may even disable gear.

Second, according to the preview and the later tweets, this does not have any kind of support from her other abilities. When other frames, like Mesa and Revenant, use these kinds of abilities, they have things to support them, such as damage mitigation and crowd control that lasts for around 40 seconds or so in Mesa's case, or in Revenant's case a literal Invulnerability function and a movement skill that also restores health. Wisp currently has none of those functions, and without them the ability will (we know this from people experimenting with using Peacemaker after her 2 and 3 run out) leave her very much a target for the dozens of enemies that spawn at any given time. Basically, damage abilities are fine, as long as they're supported, and Wisp's is not.

Third, there are dozens of better functions in game than slapping on another drain ability that does direct damage. There have been a dozen suggestions in this thread alone. You'll have to excuse us for being shown something and immediately noting the flaws inherent in the concept and coming up with something better.

And yes, we did come up with better things, see below.

2 hours ago, hy_im_death said:

I see a lot of complaining about her 1st being stationary, can we just like summon creatures from her wisp dimension that follows you/teammates or stay put when you decide?

The stationary part of it is kind of debatable. Stationary abilities can work in Warframe because there are a lot (a lot) of game modes that involve staying in one area for at least a few minutes at a time. Such as Defense, Mobile Defense, Interception, Excavation, Defection, Infested Salvage and even the longer-run Survivals.

What's not desirable is how compartmentalised it is and the previewed method of then having to go to each different point to get the different buffs. You have to cast it three times just to get the full effects, and as we saw on the stream, individually those effects aren't particularly strong or desirable. This could be because of the lack of modding, but again, we can only judge based on what we've seen.

As a side note, from experience with the game and with Forum feedback, many players will be unhappy with there being a Speed Boost that they pick up, because many, many threads are started over time complaining about Volt's Speed boost and how they don't care that it's a buff, they want to be in control of how fast they're moving without other frames imposing that on them. So while the speed boost that Wisp currently grants is a pick-up that needs collecting, DE actually tried that with Volt's speed for a while, and players hated that too because Volt would just leave them where allies would have to pick them up anyway, such as doorways and narrow corridors.

Aside from that, unless the Health boost she offers is affected by modding significantly, it doesn't actually provide any mitigation of damage, so it's kind of just a layer of tissue paper on most frames, including herself. Then there's the CC aura, which is just a radial Electrical proc, which could be very strong as a melee function (Condition Overload could rejoice) or it could be such low range that it doesn't warrant using it. We don't know, but DE have not given us a lot of confidence...

2 hours ago, hy_im_death said:

I also see a lot of hate for the rest of her kit. First, WE HAVEN'T TRIED HER YET,

No, we haven't, but we've had a genuine demonstration. This is enough to form opinions and theorise on potential and on interactions. That's why this Forum Sanctioned Megathread was created, so that there's a convenient place for us to put our opinions and feedback so the Devs, who are looking for feedback on their newly previewed and demonstrated Warframe that's still in development, can read through it.

Whether they do or not, we can't tell, but that's the reason that the Moderators made it a Megathread.

On top of that, 'the rest of her kit' is kind of broad. Her two has actually been generally well received. Players think that the primary effect of it (the distraction) could be too weak to be worth using, and that's a fair opinion. But the secondary effect, which is the teleport with instant blind on enemies and functional invulnerability seconds (as tweeted by DEPablo) could be a function that seriously allows her to scale if it's affected by Duration, and that's actually been received quite well.

Meanwhile her proposed 3 quite rightly has been received negatively because DE has made the key blunder of not showing us if the ability has any kind of function when there are no instances of her 1 in use or in range. And, much like Vauban's traps, there is literally no way (not as shown) to guarantee that enemies will be in position to be hit with the ability effects.

Does the ability actually do anything if you press the button without having cast her 1 first? We don't know. But more than that, they have given her a 4th ability that deals direct damage, one that apparently scales up damage based on how much you hit the same enemy with it. Why would we even use the finicky, compartmentalised setup of her 1 and 3 combo when we can simply press 4 and burn them all down?

Except, as mentioned before, her 4 is not a function that's very well thought out for this frame when taken in context of the rest of her kit. So an effort needs to be made by DE, based on these flaws that we've seen, to improve the design further.

2 hours ago, hy_im_death said:

Second, it's only hate for hate, no real solutions are proposed.

And this is the part I meant earlier when I said 'see below'.

I have personally and definitively provided solutions and feedback on both this page and several pages of the thread ago, in full detail, with multiple solutions that have both a grounding in the proposed 'theme' and in actual game play mechanics. I have debated and discussed these proposals with other players since, with others also contributing their own ideas to the table and debating the usefulness of them overall.

I understand that the thread is over 30 pages long, and my feedback exists only from page 33 onwards, but that's because I took the time to read through 32 pages to ensure that what I wanted to say wasn't already explained or proposed first. Since you're replying in this manner, you haven't done that. Rather rude, I would think.

But please feel free to pop back to page 33, my comment starts with an amusing reference to Thor Ragnarok and a gif of Loki. Have fun and tell me what you think.

Until then, I'll just make sure we keep people coming in and bumping the thread to keep it on the front page in case DE really is reading.

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On 2019-04-13 at 12:26 AM, Birdframe_Prime said:

So I propose 'Lost Souls'

That idea is great, I like your opinion about the wisp, maybe the wisp and teammates can be invisible(not  general invisibility, this needs to be discussed) when they inside the fog .

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7 hours ago, Birdframe_Prime said:

Basically, damage abilities are fine, as long as they're supported, and Wisp's is not.

So, I didn't see the tweets but if her other abilities stay when they are deployed I do think her 4th ability is indeed supported by the buffs and CC they create.

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On 2019-04-13 at 12:26 AM, Birdframe_Prime said:

So I propose 'Lost Souls', where you press 4 to coat a large area of ground in 'fog' (the kind of fog that travellers get lost in and see Wisps), similar to Oberon's Hallowed Ground in height so it doesn't actually interfere with sight for us. Enemies on it will be stunned, whether they are within the cast range or pass into it, stunned enemies will be in an Unaware state while within Lost Souls until directly attacked or until an Objective is in direct line of sight. Enemies within Lost Souls take bonus damage from all sources, and double damage from her 3. Unaware enemies within Lost Souls will be drawn to any Grove that is placed within the range.

what about reduce the maximum HP and damage  of enemy units gradually ?
after a 10,000HP enemy unit stays in the fog for 10 seconds, the maximum HP becomes only 3000 , and the damage will be lower correspondingly .
this can improve the team's survivability.

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2 hours ago, ENparadox said:

after a 10,000HP enemy unit stays in the fog for 10 seconds, the maximum HP becomes only 3000 , and the damage will be lower correspondingly .

Those who fall into the fog will become confused and weak, and then die in the flash and illusion.

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3 hours ago, Shelusine said:

So, I didn't see the tweets but if her other abilities stay when they are deployed I do think her 4th ability is indeed supported by the buffs and CC they create.

The buffs may stay. But here's a questions I have to ask; without damage mitigation, what good is a few hundred points of Health to a crowd of enemies? Even if that Health boost she's giving herself and allies is modded incredibly high, even double health is still only a second or so if you're taking damage from high level enemies. What I mean by 'not supported' is that other frames that have abilities they cast and use in a similar fashion have 95% Damage reduction or literal temporary Invulnerability to stay alive while using it, plus they either have CC or mobility to keep themselves alive on top.

Without damage mitigation, such as her passive Invisibility (really good passive, actually, I'm in support of that), damage reduction, or wide area CC that's completely reliable, how is she going to stay alive long enough to bring that damage to effect? And the only answer is 'it's rocket tag', where you kill them or they kill you first, and since there's more of them than there are of you, guess which is more likely?

So, from what DE showed us with that preview... we don't actually have that support, see? ^^

On to my other conversation;

4 hours ago, ENparadox said:

That idea is great, I like your opinion about the wisp, maybe the wisp and teammates can be invisible(not  general invisibility, this needs to be discussed) when they inside the fog .

That's kind of the limitation here. Something that we don't want to create is another situation that players can exploit like Ivara's Noise Arrow, so if the ability is cast on its own, then the Stun is the only form of CC you will get, and everyone will have to just try and cope. But if a Grove is placed in the area, then you won't need to be invisible, enemies will stop shooting and be drawn to it like Djinn's Fatal Attraction (a very good form of CC, if you haven't tried running with Djinn yet, it's actually more useful than you'd think).

So you bypass the need for direct, conditional buffs to allies by instead debuffing the enemies.

2 hours ago, ENparadox said:

what about reduce the maximum HP and damage  of enemy units gradually ?
after a 10,000HP enemy unit stays in the fog for 10 seconds, the maximum HP becomes only 3000 , and the damage will be lower correspondingly .
this can improve the team's survivability.

Here I have to ask 'why?'

The reason I ask is that our weapons can easily deal 10,000 damage, if not all at once, then over a very short space of time. And level 160-165 enemies often have health far, far higher than that (I know that a level 100 Heavy Gunner has an effective health, thanks to Armour damage reduction, of over a million...) and we still kill them very, very quickly when we have the right setup.

But killing enemies faster is still part of the ability I proposed; enemies affected by it take bonus damage from every source. So instead of an arbitrary reduction in health on enemies, we can exploit the power of our existing weapons, the modding system and the more powerful sources of DPS in the game (abilities) to be dealing massive potential damage.

Basically, the 'trap' that Wisp is leading her enemies into in this particular case... is her team ^^ Although, thanks to the interaction it can have with her 1 and 3 in the proposal, that's not the only trap she can lead enemies into.

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Thank you for the time you took to explain this to me, I now understand properly the issues at hand.

Personally, I have waited a long time ro see an “energy beam” type ability and I would be sad to see that removed from the game. 

And I didn’t mean to be rude in any way, I’m sorry for that

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22 minutes ago, hy_im_death said:

Thank you for the time you took to explain this to me, I now understand properly the issues at hand.

Personally, I have waited a long time ro see an “energy beam” type ability and I would be sad to see that removed from the game. 

And I didn’t mean to be rude in any way, I’m sorry for that

Honestly, like a lot of people said, it'd be a great skill on Emebr. Combine that with bringing back Tank Ember and you go from the wide-range heating lamp to a beefy pinpoint blowtorch....but I don't think they'll ever touch Ember. Poor girl can't even get her actual deluxe skin, it's like she's doomed.

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54 minutes ago, Rankii said:

Honestly, like a lot of people said, it'd be a great skill on Emebr. Combine that with bringing back Tank Ember and you go from the wide-range heating lamp to a beefy pinpoint blowtorch....but I don't think they'll ever touch Ember. Poor girl can't even get her actual deluxe skin, it's like she's doomed.

I agree.

Let's make Ember great again!

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14 hours ago, Birdframe_Prime said:

The buffs may stay. But here's a questions I have to ask; without damage mitigation, what good is a few hundred points of Health to a crowd of enemies?

It depends on her base armor but I am a lot more interested in the CC. I mean, enemies that can't hit you to begin with are not a threat. If her CC potential is high enough there shouldn't be an issue. 

 

14 hours ago, Birdframe_Prime said:

if you're taking damage from high level enemies.

She'd have to take damage from 1h+ survival for that. While I am all for specs that helps for long runs, it'd be hard to make an argument about it

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9 hours ago, Shelusine said:

It depends on her base armor but I am a lot more interested in the CC. I mean, enemies that can't hit you to begin with are not a threat. If her CC potential is high enough there shouldn't be an issue. 

From what we saw it was a low range aura that zapped individual enemies, sort of like a worse version of Shooting Gallery. That's not a lot of potential that we've actually been shown.

But for context, you're talking to a player that regularly took a Silence Banshee to T4 during the crit-melee scaling days and later to Mot, on both where 3x damage is the norm. I can use stun CC and stun CC only in order to survive at points where a lot of players fall down. It functions, I agree with that, even if it's slightly low range (I typically run my Banshee with Neutral range or less to get the correct stun point to really use the Melee options I enjoyed most. (As a note, I did try out Naramon's invisibility, but I used that on frames that didn't have the kind of reliable way to place enemies into the Unaware state that Banshee could.)

Given that I'm aware of how good even the most basic of stun CCs can be, I'll be completely honest with you on this one: Unless you're free to move and apply that CC and use inbuilt damage mitigation such as rolling and dodging behind cover (or Wisp's proposed Invisibility while jumping, which I'm really looking forward to) it's useless.

Wisp, as she is, could get by with literally any one of her options. She could survive with her Aura CC, her distraction 2 or her Invisibility passive if she used normal Warframe mobility options in order to exploit those. While one would be enough, having all three of those to exploit with Warframe's mobility is a win. It's where you immediately remove two of those and remove Warframe mobility by fixing her into the animation we saw. That's where I take issue.

That's where you need damage mitigation in excess of what a stun aura can do. That's where you're going to get every single enemy around you firing and not have enough time to hose each enemy down before you've taken that damage.

See where I'm coming from on this? The frame as a whole has enough survivability. When you isolate it by giving it a fixed animation 4th ability, it does not.

10 hours ago, Shelusine said:

She'd have to take damage from 1h+ survival for that. While I am all for specs that helps for long runs, it'd be hard to make an argument about it

Actually no. Enemies are lethal to frames that don't have mitigation at surprisingly easy-to-access points. Snipers, shotgun enemies, techs and gunners, sapping orbs, flame throwers and napalm shots, even just combined fire. If you're in a situation where none of your mitigation works, you can die from just a Corrupted Crewman spawning in on you from an Axi Fissure and taking two shots. Just from an Axi Fissure mission. Those aren't considered high level unless you haven't gone above the Star Chart...

I say 'high level', and it's true. A level 80-100 enemy is (by the developers, not by most players) considered high level, and you can find those daily. But you don't need that.

A level 50 Scorch is lethal in seconds, even if you're running a frame with base tanky stats, due to how particle damage works. It will be unless you use mitigation functions like your Abilities or external sources of mitigation such as gear, Arcanes, Focus (and Focus Arcanes) and so on.

And again, it's easy not to take lethal damage in Warframe, as long as you have access to the functions that mitigate it. If you're put in a state where you can't access those? That's when you die very quickly and very easily.

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8 minutes ago, Birdframe_Prime said:

That's not a lot of potential that we've actually been shown.

I would agree with that but we honestly don't know the exact mechanic. No offense to Reb but she isn't the best at showing the "potential" of frames as such it's not like we can clearly say that the ability is indeed not supported because on paper she does have access to CC. That being said I surely am not trying to go against your intent which I guess is to warn DE.

 

13 minutes ago, Birdframe_Prime said:

If you're in a situation where none of your mitigation works, you can die from just a Corrupted Crewman spawning in on you from an Axi Fissure

"You can" Yes. The way you make that happen is very specific though... Taking Revenant example It means pressing the ability in situations that are uncalled for while not being geared for it to begin with. Point being that, realistically, as long as you know when to use such ability you are very unlikely to die and if you do it has more chances to be because of another mistake. And that's assuming that she is a very squishy frame to begin with. Do we even have access to her stats yet ? Because if her stats are close to even a frame like Garuda she already just can't die even at sortie level. 

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1 minute ago, Shelusine said:

Point being that, realistically, as long as you know when to use such ability you are very unlikely to die and if you do it has more chances to be because of another mistake. And that's assuming that she is a very squishy frame to begin with. Do we even have access to her stats yet ? Because if her stats are close to even a frame like Garuda she already just can't die even at sortie level.

You're assuming a lot here. Especially the concept that Garuda can't die at Sortie... I mean, yes, she has 300 armour and you're modding her for health and armour, but if you aren't moving, if you aren't using Dread Mirror, if you aren't mitigating damage using the functions that Garuda has like her health regen, she dies. Yes she does, and that's the point I'm making. (Also, yeah, Wisp's 'in progress' stats were there on the first reveal when Reb selected her, she has literally half the armour of Garuda, which is still pretty high for any of the caster frames at 150. That's enough to put her above 21 other base frames and above 13 Primes.)

But here's a fun point; since Garuda has Dread Mirror and Blood Altar (damage mitigation and health regen) on top of her high base stats, even if she had an animation based 4, that would be enough to support it. 

Wisp's CC is okay, as I said, but if she's floating around in a fixed animation, how does she effectively use it? 

Wisp's mitigation is okay, she turns invisible when she jumps, that's amazing for getting enemies to not shoot at you. But when she's floating around in a fixed animation, she can't jump. Even the tweets from Pablo say she can't.

Wisp's distraction is okay, she can literally decoy enemies away and then use a teleport to blind and make herself invincible for some time. She can't use it while in her 4, also confirmed.

Saying 'knowing when to use the ability' does not make the ability good. I'm a Zephyr player. I know when to use Tailwind. That does not make Tailwind a good ability. (I typed out an entire rant about the other abilities that are bad in Warframe that players can still use. But it went on as long as the rest of this comment, so I've cut it for time.)

A player can compensate for bad abilities and that's okay. But it still doesn't make the ability good.

When a frame is in development, and has been previewed to us the way Wisp has, this is the perfect time to take the abilities we can see as bad ideas and suggest good ones, better ones at least.

We should not need to look at an upcoming Warframe that's still being tweaked and has ample room for greatness and say 'oh well, I guess we'll have to work around that function, or ignore it completely so that we can use all the other functions'. We should be getting that function fixed, improved, or changed for another one that does work with the rest of her kit, that doesn't deny her options and doesn't present these problems that we have to work around like that.

Abilities do need limits, drawbacks, but they don't need logistical flaws that players need to compensate for by strategically not using the ability at all.

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