Wisp Review/Early feedback

[PsiWarp]

Reservoirs can sustain Motes' timers (the buffs) indefinitely if you stay in range. Hopefully can mod the range.

If you mouse over a Reservoir a circle appears. Not sure what that is, but I speculate that maybe 1) you can change a reservoir's type by looking at it and tapping 1 to cycle through, or 2) press 3 to blind enemies near the Reservoir you're looking at, or 3) press 2 to instantly teleport to the Reservoir you're looking at.

Sol deals Corrosive, Radiation and Heat damage with their procs.

Hope the new 3rd does more than just be a Radial Blind.

[VVXRFRXME]

il y a 18 minutes, Wyvern_WX-0-1 a dit :

I approve of butt frame, regardless of if they fix her or not. XD

there is already ivara for this

 

il y a 7 minutes, PsiWarp a dit :

Reservoirs can sustain Motes' timers (the buffs) indefinitely if you stay in range. Hopefully can mod the range.

If you mouse over a Reservoir a circle appears. Not sure what that is, but I speculate that maybe 1) you can change a reservoir's type by looking at it and tapping 1 to cycle through, or 2) press 3 to blind enemies near the Reservoir you're looking at, or 3) press 2 to instantly teleport to the Reservoir you're looking at.

Sol deals Corrosive, Radiation and Heat damage with their procs.

Hope the new 3rd does more than just be a Radial Blind.

thanks for the help

[Azamagon]

While there is more to be dealt with, I think one way to make her 2nd ability better as a decoy, is to have the lightwave periodically leave wispy orb decoys in its wake, which linger for a while. To put it graphically,

- is the travel of the lightwave
O is a wispy orb decoy

--------O--------O--------O--------O--------O--------O--------O

These wispy orbs could either last briefly but be immortal, or last a bit longer but have limitted health. They could also act as shockwave emmination sources for her 3rd skill! That means more synergy, more defensive options, overall more viability to the skill, speedier "on the fly" use of her 3rd ability and also a bit more of that "summon stuff through portals" kind of vibe she's supposed to have!

Edited May 3, 2019 by Azamagon

[Jfalz]

1 hour ago, (NSW)Kokojo said:

I'm really scared about her.
I'm getting a REALLY STRONG Revenant vibes from her....

I like Revenant 😞

[SkyWitch]

I'm a little sad that I have zero interest in a frame with Wisp's design. I know this is cringey, but I was a "Ghost-type Gym Leader" for a Pokemon boards several years ago. Twice... I enjoy ghost movies (horror or not). Ghost-like aesthetics are something that has always appealed to me. Was really excited when I saw Wisp initially and I don't really think I'm in the wrong for thinking/hoping we were getting a ghost frame. 

What Wisp is to me now is just a worse Revenant. Titania is my most played frame even though I have them all (aside Excalibur Prime), so I'm totally okay with playing a frame that isn't the best. I play Titania because I really enjoy her design and theme. She has her share of problems, but I can look past it for being a fairy. One of the things people complain about Titania is her buff system. Strange that they gave a similar system to Wisp. 

I do still disagree that her 4 would fit Ember. Not just because I don't think the ability will be fun to use. But, because I see Ember as more of a "wild fire" frame rather than having some overly concentrated beam from the sun. I could see how "sun" could be viewed as an upgrade of "fire" because they're both heat. The sun and fire are very different in how they work and react. Just doesn't seem like the right fit for Ember to me. Maybe I'm being too critical about it. I'd rather something more wild! 

The best thing coming from Wisp is her animation set. I'm going to MR Wisp, shelf her, then put her animation set on Titania because Titania should have gotten something similar. 

And! While I'm a little sad that Wisp isn't anywhere near to what I would have wanted, I'm glad some people will like her. I almost never read anything positive about Revenant and don't like him myself. But! He still makes people happy to play him. I assume Wisp will have a similar situation of just a small handful of players that like her (and some that like her for only her butt). That's fine, too. 

[Rankii]

2 minutes ago, SkyCakeLight said:

I'm a little sad that I have zero interest in a frame with Wisp's design. I know this is cringey, but I was a "Ghost-type Gym Leader" for a Pokemon boards several years ago. Twice... I enjoy ghost movies (horror or not). Ghost-like aesthetics are something that has always appealed to me. Was really excited when I saw Wisp initially and I don't really think I'm in the wrong for thinking/hoping we were getting a ghost frame. 

What Wisp is to me now is just a worse Revenant. Titania is my most played frame even though I have them all (aside Excalibur Prime), so I'm totally okay with playing a frame that isn't the best. I play Titania because I really enjoy her design and theme. She has her share of problems, but I can look past it for being a fairy. One of the things people complain about Titania is her buff system. Strange that they gave a similar system to Wisp. 

I do still disagree that her 4 would fit Ember. Not just because I don't think the ability will be fun to use. But, because I see Ember as more of a "wild fire" frame rather than having some overly concentrated beam from the sun. I could see how "sun" could be viewed as an upgrade of "fire" because they're both heat. The sun and fire are very different in how they work and react. Just doesn't seem like the right fit for Ember to me. Maybe I'm being too critical about it. I'd rather something more wild! 

The best thing coming from Wisp is her animation set. I'm going to MR Wisp, shelf her, then put her animation set on Titania because Titania should have gotten something similar. 

And! While I'm a little sad that Wisp isn't anywhere near to what I would have wanted, I'm glad some people will like her. I almost never read anything positive about Revenant and don't like him myself. But! He still makes people happy to play him. I assume Wisp will have a similar situation of just a small handful of players that like her (and some that like her for only her butt). That's fine, too. 

The movement is unique to wisp. Putting her animations on other frames won't make them float.

I was already sure but I'm sure that they do pretty much the opposite of what anyone wants at any given time.

[Horned_Fox]

Wsip: Can apparently open a portal to the sun requiring immense ammounts of power when you factor in the possible distances she could be from the sun (depending on the planet she is on) not to mention holding a portal open while also restricting how much "Sun" is coming through and to some "dimension" to summon useless buff flowers

Wisp: Apparently can not even open a single portal to get her across a room . . .

A kit that involves portals can be really cool just look at Wakfu's MMO. The Eliotropes have a really fun kit.

Dont say "portal frame" if you did not mean it.

Besides she looks and is named more in the way of a ghost type of frame, doesnt have but one ghost like ability . . .

Edited May 3, 2019 by Wyvern_WX-0-1

[(PSN)wintersfrozen]

1 minute ago, Wyvern_WX-0-1 said:

Wsip: Can apparently open a portal to the sun requiring immense ammounts of power when you factor in the possible distances she could be from the sun (depending on the planet she is on) not to mention holding a portal open while also restricting how much "Sun" is coming through and to some "dimension" to summon useless buff flowers

Wisp: Apparently can not even open a single portal to get her across a room . . .

A kit that involves portals can be really cool just look at Wakfu's MMO. The Eliotropes have a really fun kit.

Dont say "portal frame" if you did not mean it.

Besides she looks and is named more in the way of a ghost type of frame, doesnt have but one ghost like ability . . .

Passive and 2 seam more ghost like but for portal frame she is hard core lacking and for ghost frame again she is lacking. It's like they couldn't stick to a theme and are just throwing stuff on a frame with a nice butt in hopes people wouldn't care about it.

[(XBOX)WafflyLearner89]

I am kinda disappointment with the fact that DE has not made any changes or talked about the state of wisp. I know she is not out yet but do I need to remind people about what garuda looked like before she released. Additionally, the reason I worry is that once a frame is released on pc, beside some buffs or nerfs, that frame stays the way it is for months before it is even talked about.

While at this point I don't have specific abilities to replace certain slots, I had certain abilities in mind that I was expecting to be part of her kit.

-the ability to phase through walls or enemies while damaging enemies or stealing health and Armour

-a more consistent form of invisibility. Such as maybe instead or her passive being invisible only when airborne, she can turn invisible when bullet jumping, when on a zip line, wall-running, dodging or just in general, parkouring in any shape or form with the invisibility lingering for a few seconds unless she performs an action like interacting or attacking. Another idea is that whenever she uses her powers, she becomes invisible until she attacks or interacts. (this is just my own opinion and i may be the unpopular opinion but the passive could have more leeway.) 

-an ability that allows her to phase through walls or enemies like an actual ghost. when phasing through enemies, she could steal their health and armor and give it to herself with the health being permanent and the armor being temporary. would also allow her to phase though damage. (kinda like ghost from ant-man and the wasp https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F-E5ZXYkmkg )

-a way to control the specter from her 2 and allow for a more controlled teleport (kinda like reaper's shadow step from over-watch or nurse's blink from dead by daylight). would make it the first teleport that allows you to accurately teleport without needing portals, allies or enemies.

-an ability that sends 1 or 3 specters at enemies and strikes multiple targets at once might be good damage ability (got that idea from Anthem's interceptor and it's wraith strike  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QTqvLxxJsuk   Skip to 2:19 on video  and a wiki link for more detail https://anthem.fandom.com/wiki/Wraith_Strike )

 

I really don't like wisp's current state and hope that she gets a rework a few months from now. Even if I am one of the few that does not like the frame and the frame becomes popular, I am still bothered a lot by the fact that even though she floats when holding or running with the gun out, they STILL have not given the same treatment for melee. Why even bother with giving her a custom running animation if you don't even implement it when she has melee out. It is very inconsistent and drives me nuts. What happens when players use melee only? why bother with equipping an animation set. Is it really that hard to do it for melee? you guys did it for the guns but melee is where you draw the line? Really?

 

 

[Rankii]

5 minutes ago, (PS4)wintersfrozen said:

Passive and 2 seam more ghost like but for portal frame she is hard core lacking and for ghost frame again she is lacking. It's like they couldn't stick to a theme and are just throwing stuff on a frame with a nice butt in hopes people wouldn't care about it.

I still hold onto the rumor that Wisp had more ghostly portal abilties but they were too difficult to impliment so instead we got some placeholders for her 3 and 4. The beam seems so out of place it had to have been taken from somewhere else, and her 3 is yet another blind or something. There's pieces of the ghostly misdirection that wisps are known for being, but I wish they had tried harder to get it to the final product. Wisp seems butchered and on the operating table even as she's apparently almost "ready" to go out.

[VVXRFRXME]

il y a 28 minutes, SkyCakeLight a dit :

I'm a little sad that I have zero interest in a frame with Wisp's design. I know this is cringey, but I was a "Ghost-type Gym Leader" for a Pokemon boards several years ago. Twice... 

Hehe tape my name on google...

[VVXRFRXME]

Il y a 16 heures, (XB1)WafflyLearner89 a dit :

I really don't like wisp's current state and hope that she gets a rework a few months from now. Even if I am one of the few that does not like the frame and the frame becomes popular, I am still bothered a lot by the fact that even though she floats when holding or running with the gun out, they STILL have not given the same treatment for melee. Why even bother with giving her a custom running animation if you don't even implement it when she has melee out. It is very inconsistent and drives me nuts. What happens when players use melee only? why bother with equipping an animation set. Is it really that hard to do it for melee? you guys did it for the guns but melee is where you draw the line? Really?

i think its because putting line of code for primary,secondary,dual secondary, bow, ,kunai,spear, is easier and faster than coding melee with all those stance/animation idle

 

Edit : sorry for double post, i tought i was in edit mod

Edited May 4, 2019 by Hex-Maniac

[Azamagon]

15 minutes ago, Rankii said:

-snip- There's pieces of the ghostly misdirection that wisps are known for being -snip-

With just one small upgrade, it could be emphasized better though:

44 minutes ago, Azamagon said:

While there is more to be dealt with, I think one way to make her 2nd ability better as a decoy, is to have the lightwave periodically leave wispy orb decoys in its wake, which linger for a while. To put it graphically,

- is the travel of the lightwave
O is a wispy orb decoy

--------O--------O--------O--------O--------O--------O--------O

These wispy orbs could either last briefly but be immortal, or last a bit longer but have limitted health. They could also act as shockwave emmination sources for her 3rd skill! That means more synergy, more defensive options, overall more viability to the skill, speedier "on the fly" use of her 3rd ability and also a bit more of that "summon stuff through portals" kind of vibe she's supposed to have!

[(XBOX)WafflyLearner89]

1 minute ago, Hex-Maniac said:

i think its because putting line of code for primary,secondary,dual secondary, bow, ,kunai,spear, is easier and faster then code melee with all those stance/animation idle

You think? I am no programmer, but I don't think switching out one idle pose/animation with another should be that hard if it is already possible with a gun. Also it just flat out feels like they are favoring the guns more then melee on purpose. For wisp, it would just need to change the animation for the legs at least to make it look like she is floating at least.

[(PSN)wintersfrozen]

15 minutes ago, Rankii said:

I still hold onto the rumor that Wisp had more ghostly portal abilties but they were too difficult to impliment so instead we got some placeholders for her 3 and 4. The beam seems so out of place it had to have been taken from somewhere else, and her 3 is yet another blind or something. There's pieces of the ghostly misdirection that wisps are known for being, but I wish they had tried harder to get it to the final product. Wisp seems butchered and on the operating table even as she's apparently almost "ready" to go out.

The beam... I don't mind a good "praise the sun" joke every now and then but her 4 is so out of place it hurts. If they had dropped the portal aspect and gone ghost fire (such as will-o-wisps in traditional lore) I could sort of get by the fire aspect just make her 2 do fire damage when it moves threw an enemy, on top of distracting them, and suddenly it feels more like the theme. But a giant laser is still a giant laser no mater how you try to justify where its coming from. That would need an animation overhaul if they wanted targeted damage.

Want to keep the 4 then drop the ghost concept and just think with portals. Her 4 can stay, opening a portal to the sun is awesome for a portal frame. Her 1,2,3, and passive though will need some reworks. Want her 2 to still be a decoy? Ok have her open a portal ala Nova and have the enemies try to attack the portal version. Double tap to go threw the portal and appear on the other side. (not sure how to fix her 1, 3 and passive for this theme but I'm sure it can be done.) Point being show us the portals if shes the portal frame. Make us believe she is pulling these things out of somewhere else, not just some alt dimension cop out. It was cool for limbo, that doesn't mean you get to use it every time.

[(PSN)thefallenloser]

Yikes... DE hardly addressed the pages of feedback we gave for Wisp.

[Covenanthunter]

After the latest stream I am happy with her design. Hard to know how strong she will be without numbers and mods. Imo her 4 makes the frame I just hope the numbers match the awesome visuals.

A few positive changes I noticed on the stream:

• 2 being usable while channeling her 4
• Looks like 4 does corrosive, radiation and heat 
• She has some cc with her 3
• That health regen is insane

 

[(PSN)BenHeisennberg]

I gotta say, for being a stationary gameplay frame, Wisp handled that level 35 mission worse than I expected.  Little concerned.

[kimisanerd]

8 hours ago, Rankii said:

The movement is unique to wisp. Putting her animations on other frames won't make them float.

I was already sure but I'm sure that they do pretty much the opposite of what anyone wants at any given time.

actually, you get the idle animation float like titania idles, you just dont get the walking animation floats cus those are tied to wisp

[Birdframe_Prime]

Woah, woah, woah... guys...

I think here is where we have to re-emphasise that Rebecca is actually not so good at previewing frames.

Things I took away from the stream:

1st Ability. Because they covered up the UI with the screen we can't see if they've streamlined the casting. Except we kind of can. It seems like instead of having a wheel of 6 orbs that you can fill with up to six of the Mote wells (they're called Motes...) you can see that the ability just has the three symbols you cycle through. Speed, Health and CC.

I'm guessing that Wisp has been modded, because you see Wisp's health at the start of the round is 500, but the second that the Health buff is dropped, it goes up to 910. So that's either a build for about 182% Strength, or it's an additive flat value of 410, I'm going to have to say the latter, because you can't easily get 182% Strength without half-ranking some of your mods.

As a support ability on the 1 cast, that's not bad, giving a Valkyr, an Inaros, a Chroma, Mesa, Gara, any frame with high EHP or high damage reduction, this is actually pretty damn good actually. As a personal buff for Wisp with her stats? Passable. Just... passable.

The CC aura triggered off at a fairly decent distance, again, this one looks like it's been modded, rather than just improved, as throwing on a Stretch and Augur Reach would have accounted for the difference in range for that. I'm a little confused as to why this one is still here with the change to her 3 and the blind on her 2.

And the Speed buff... well it's a speed buff. I don't think anyone who hates Volt's Speed will like this one. But... I could be wrong, but did it give her a fire-rate buff too? It's the Hikou Prime, so I couldn't quite tell, but it seemed faster with the buff than before it.

The ability does seem to have the Wells on a placed duration, when Reb went upstairs to look at the 'blue' node, and then jumped back down to pick up the blue key, the Wells didn't appear to still be there. So running back into the radius refreshes both the placed item's duration and the buff duration. This could be a good usability buff here, but a function nerf too, because it means that re-casting will remove the old instance of each Well type, and move it to the new location, and it increases Efficiency because a single cast is then refreshable without recasts. The functional nerf could be that this means we can't just leave it on a point and get the effects from her 3 when we want it (which was one of the positive thoughts people expressed about the potential of her 3 being stationary) and if you don't remain at a location the Well ends and you have to re-cast.

2nd Ability. This one was pretty much unchanged, although has had an additional aspect. Something a lot of people in this thread missed when they were showing the Decoy portion originally was that Wisp does turn Invisible while the Decoy is in play. I noticed it this time, and went back to double check whether this was a buff or not... and no, it's there in the original. So while it's not as long of a duration as any other Invisibility in the game... it's actually an invisibility cast, with a teleport and invulnerability function built in.

The additional function is the auto-teleport, where if you hold the cast down, it goes faster and you can then release to teleport instead of having to tap and time it. I think this one is that little mobility buff that will really play in well to using this ability offensively.

3rd Ability. DAMMIT DE EXPLAIN!!

We saw a new animation and function for her 3, which was the radial blind. Without her Wells around it emanated from her, and... well, what did you think would happen when you give a frame Radial Blind? It's a good cast on Excal, it's a good cast on any frame. If she can now also do that remotely from her place Wells on top of the base cast, then it's going to be a good function.

Okay. Well. Sure. Still seems a bit sad that they took this function from the 2's teleport and put it here instead, but hey, that's alright as long as we have that function.

But right as Rebecca was going to actually explain it, she got overwhelmed by enemies and started panicking around and lost her train of thought, so they never actually explained it.

4th Ability. It... it's still there.

But. Important improvement: You can cast her 2 while in her 4.

This, my friends, is exactly what I was talking about when I said her 4th needed support from her other abilities. Because what does being able to cast her 2 mean? It means that you can freely turn invisible, decoy enemies away from you, and even teleport to the new location to gain damage mitigation!

This is it. This is what we needed. Not what we wanted, but what we needed.

I know that I strongly advocated for a new 4.

I know. And I still do.

But...

Here's the thing. If DE genuinely wants to keep this 4, which it seems they do, letting us cast 2 while using 4 is the support needed to make the ability work.

Along with the radial CC function, speed boost and health boost from her 1, this is... enough.

tl;dr

I'm unsatisfied with the frame as a whole, the concept is broken, the 4th ability is the wrong kind for this frame, but here's the thing: Now the frame functions.

As upsetting as it is to not get something like Lost Souls for her 4, now the 4 they've actually given her has the opportunity to work.

Direct damage, animation locked abilities need to have something that will allow them to work. The same way as walking about firing your gun can have results, but doesn't have the same result as firing your gun while using your other abilities and jumping/dodging in between, thus firing your ability laser without anything else doesn't have anywhere near the same results as having access to your other abilities and mobility.

Now that you have access to her most potentially powerful survival cast, and access to refreshable buffs? We're okay.

Oh, and a couple more things:

13 hours ago, (XB1)WafflyLearner89 said:

You think? I am no programmer, but I don't think switching out one idle pose/animation with another should be that hard if it is already possible with a gun. Also it just flat out feels like they are favoring the guns more then melee on purpose. For wisp, it would just need to change the animation for the legs at least to make it look like she is floating at least.

DE use the exact same skeleton and animations throughout so as to have a simple library to reference when setting up the peer-to-peer sessions for playing the game. Doubling up every animation in the game doesn't really help with that, and it's why they haven't actually done this to any other frame in the first place.

As for 'just changing the animation on the legs', yeah, no, that's not a thing. That's what I mean by 'doubling up' on the animations. These aren't live animations that you can adjust based on the positioning or specific frame, you would have to literally create a second animation for every single movement that is achieved in the Melee system. At a rough estimate that's... 73 stances, each with combos ranging from 3 to 6 moves (with some overlap, so call it 12 unique animations) making about 864 new animations there, plus weapon-type specific Air attacks (with some overlap let's call that 20 animations instead of 24), plus the regular animations such as Slams, Air Slams, Spin Attacks, Wall Attacks, Finishers for front and back for the different weapon types, Ground Finishers for the different weapon types...

And this is on top of run, sprint, shoot (different kinds of shoot), access console, pick up object, revive team member... you're looking at easily over 1000 Animations that would need to be redone entirely for Wisp.

It's genuinely not simple, my friend. I can't even accurately count the number of potential animations that would need to be redone and coded in to be used explicitly by Wisp. Even if you're discounting the basic movement ones.

Again, this is why they haven't done it for any other frame previously.

11 hours ago, Covenanthunter said:

• That health regen is insane

Don't forget, that could have been Reb's god-mode hacks, not strictly something Wisp was doing. While she may have health regen on her 1, I don't know if that's the strength of it.

7 hours ago, (PS4)BenHeisennberg said:

I gotta say, for being a stationary gameplay frame, Wisp handled that level 35 mission worse than I expected.  Little concerned.

And... no, Rebecca is just terrible at trying to multi-task previewing a new frame and playing a new game mode ^^ Modded well, with better modded weapons, this game mode will be interesting, but not as much of a challenge as Reb made it out to be.

[VVXRFRXME]

• Citation

  [PH] Sol Gate - Wisp tears open and sustains a portal to the sun to harness its destructive power. While sustaining the portal, Wisp focuses the solar flares into a primary beam with curving flares that deals continous  Corrosive,  Heat, and  Radiation damage per second with a high status chance to all enemies it touches; as long as the beams are in contact with a target, the damage per second is increased upon all targets in the beam's path. Press the ability key while active to deactivate this ability. 

   

don't forget the most important part about the dmg scaling issue of her 4, now this is not a problem anymore

Edited May 4, 2019 by Hex-Maniac

[Atsia]

Overall, I'm pretty ok with Wisp. She still has the thematic issues (I can barley justify the sun beam as kinda will-o-wisp) but everything looks like it'll actually be useful.

[(XBOX)GearsMatrix301]

1 minute ago, Atsia said:

Overall, I'm pretty ok with Wisp. She still has the thematic issues (I can barley justify the sun beam as kinda will-o-wisp) but everything looks like it'll actually be useful.

I think people just need to drop the Ghost theme idea. It’s not like Revenant where he is obviously supposed to be Eidolon but they made him something else. We all just assumed her theme to be ghost and we were wrong. The real theme issue is the portal frame in which she was described as (which honestly her visual design does look like something that would bring traveling through space portals) has next to no connection to her powers. Her 4 is the only one that has anything to do with portals, one in her hands one in the center of the sun (awesome use of space portals btw).

We need to stop claiming she’s a ghost frame and focus on the portal frame lacking portals.

[Atsia]

1 hour ago, (XB1)GearsMatrix301 said:

I think people just need to drop the Ghost theme idea. It’s not like Revenant where he is obviously supposed to be Eidolon but they made him something else. We all just assumed her theme to be ghost and we were wrong. The real theme issue is the portal frame in which she was described as (which honestly her visual design does look like something that would bring traveling through space portals) has next to no connection to her powers. Her 4 is the only one that has anything to do with portals, one in her hands one in the center of the sun (awesome use of space portals btw).

We need to stop claiming she’s a ghost frame and focus on the portal frame lacking portals.

Same, I pretty much dropped any ideas of a ghost frame the first time they showcased her. IMO, I (choose to) think DE meant letss opening portals and more the ability to summon stuff from her in little "wisp" dimension.  Her 4 completely shoots that in the foot, but whatever.

Edited May 4, 2019 by Atsia
ghost, not good

[Covenanthunter]

4 hours ago, Birdframe_Prime said:

Don't forget, that could have been Reb's god-mode hacks, not strictly something Wisp was doing. While she may have health regen on her 1, I don't know if that's the strength of it. 

While that could be I don't think that is the case. If you watch closely she dies a few times during the stream, but godmode restores her health to full. She has this happen once before she has health regen. Then she activates her buffs and gains +max health and the regen. Later she dies a few more times and her health is just restored to max when she hits 0. She may have turned on a health regen hack at the same time she picks up the health buff, but it seems more likely that is the effect.