Wisp Review/Early feedback

[CeejAttack]

4 minutes ago, kimisanerd said:

i might be one of the 10 people who are incredibly excited for wisp and will use her regularly, even if most people think she'll be bad

I'm with you on this one.  I'm very excited.  I think people are making some strong statements about wisp before even getting a chance to play her and see how she feels in mission.  

[EchoesOfRain]

1 hour ago, kimisanerd said:

i might be one of the 10 people who are incredibly excited for wisp and will use her regularly, even if most people think she'll be bad

I'm definitely excited for wisp, though I am a bit cautious. Definitely going to spend plenty of time testing her skills and voice out where I think she needs improvements. 

[F8ted]

1 hour ago, kimisanerd said:

i might be one of the 10 people who are incredibly excited for wisp and will use her regularly, even if most people think she'll be bad

 

1 hour ago, CeejAttack said:

I'm with you on this one.  I'm very excited.  I think people are making some strong statements about wisp before even getting a chance to play her and see how she feels in mission.  

Dudes, I'm glad for your enthusiasm but in any release there are going to be those who stand firm in support while against a tide of opposition. I've even seen a few defending the new Sonic movie. One begins to wonder if the appeal is simply to be contrary to the general opinion. See, if the Warframe is unpopular, those who still care to use it will be some of the few. Instead of a small army of new Wisps dominating every mission, only a small dedicated few will play her. It's like playing Titania or Vauban just to make sure no one is going to copy you. This is fantastic for those who feel like they get to play a way that isn't exactly flavor of the month, but terrible for the bottom line of the game. 

There is a reason why virtually every game that releases new characters makes them "over powered" to begin with, followed by some balance tuning. The hype of a new character release and the desire to own it quickly before being left behind is usually the driving force behind sales of these characters in any game. For Warframe, if they screw up Wisps release, they will have about a month to bring her up to par (in fact past it briefly for desirability) or she will never make any money. By then people will have a chance to watch others play her in mission, and unless they are doing better with Wisp than others are doing with like Equinox, there will be no reason to switch tactics. Effectively no bump for people to be like "hey Wisp is really good, if I want to do 80% damage l had better get her". No "Wow it's taking too long to farm her and I need her now so I'm going to buy her straight out". 

So in short, you guys will be an integral part of her being changed, and in the end, buffed. Someone has to play her to show everyone where she lies on the effectiveness scale. For every mission a dedicated Wisp player embarks on, they will show 3 people how effective she is next to their main. It will not take long.

[Horned_Fox]

On 2019-05-05 at 10:57 AM, Birdframe_Prime said:

I think that a lot of the player base will not agree with you. Frames are all balanced, unmodded, to take on level 30 content (it's why they level up to 30) according to DE. With modding, frames are able to take on much higher content, and again, this is according to DE.

Where that might be the intention, I think a lot of the player base will disagree with you mostly because I have been around the block a few times. I have been in multiple large guilds in the past and have been playing the game since early on. As you start to get towards level 50-60 certain frames, if not modded towards mostly staying alive, will  die quickly. Mirage is one, ember, Khora (though she has CC if she takes too much fire or someone is killing your 2 target before it can propagate). Of course the Caveat to this is that they are supposed to be able to kill things, which keeps them alive because the enemy is dying first. However in most cases this does not hold up because depending on the frame they start to fall off as early as lvl 30 (START. This does not mean things wont die, it just means that you will start to notice a big decline). 

Not only can wisp (which was presumably modded [she had 500 base health and 400 or something base shields] ) not do a level 35 mission soio which mind you, would be a feat for some of the previously mentioned frames [again this does not mean they could not do it, it just means at best it would be rough] ), but her Kit does multiple things wrong that they said they did not want to do. It's 4 locks you into it so you cant do anything else (though you can move, so that is a plus), but her 2 encourages you to stay in one place (the buffs). Now I know there are plenty of comparable abilities currently in game, but that does not make it right. Also consider that they spent a good half a year working on nerfing the likes of Ember, and Mesa, and Mag for those very same reasons. all of those frames had abilities that either were "press 4 to win', encouraged you to stay in one spot, or both. 

Now I do not, personally, have an issue so much with abilities that encourage you to stay in one area (I do not like "press 4 to win") as long as the game play is engaging. They said they wanted to make the game more active, and I do not disagree with that notion either. Not only that, this kit is no where near a "portal themed" warframe or a ghost themed warframe.  

[Cephalon_Onyrix]

She is very similar to summoner from Doom

 

They look similar and they have simmilar abilities

Wisp can summon her "vessels" and summoner summons demons

Wisp sends waves of energy on the ground and summoner also does that

Wisp teleports and summoner also teleports(or moves very quickly)

So yeah...

Edited May 14, 2019 by foxy228

[Birdframe_Prime]

2 hours ago, Wyvern_WX-0-1 said:

Not only can wisp (which was presumably modded [she had 500 base health and 400 or something base shields] ) not do a level 35 mission soio

Again, this preview was a preview only.

This frame cannot be judged fully on this because 1; the person playing it is known to be easily distracted and has had a very poor record of performance when, specifically, previewing frames in the past. And 2; there is a very good chance that this preview was intentionally played a little worse to encourage the idea that this new game mode they were also showing off was a hectic and challenging game mode.

Wisp was not struggling. Wisp was barely being played.

But more on the actual point here:

My response to you was specifically geared around the comment you made of 'most frames struggle at level 30', which you even back up when you say level 50-60 that frames will start to die if not modded well. And my specific response was that while DE believes unmodded frames can handle level 30, the players have proven time and again that this is just the beginning value, even when unmodded.

A modded frame does not struggle at level 30 unless the player themselves struggles. We have literally too much power for those basic levels in this game.

But I do find it interesting that you swerved this back on to Wisp, and then... as if you haven't read any of this thread barring my reply to you... repeat the exact same points that everyone else, including me, argued for weeks.

Well done. You're up to speed. Congrats for joining us on the same page there.

Also, do check your little attempt at ego there, I joined in the same month as you, I've run clans and alliances, I'm a product of the long-run metas from the Void Key era, and I can match any anecdotal evidence you bring to the field in that regard. Not only that, I've spent time actually teaching players to play this game, showing them budget setups, actual tactics, and ways to enjoy the game before they get a maxed out Vitality or similar. So I know exactly what I'm talking about when I point out what unmodded frames can do.

Next though:

11 minutes ago, foxy228 said:

She is very similar to summoner from Doom

No, you stop that! Bad tenno!

Do not make me want to carve up the new Warframe with a chainsaw.

That's only supposed to happen when I play her and I'm proved right about her abilities being terrible.

Stop it.

[Horned_Fox]

1 hour ago, Birdframe_Prime said:

Wisp was not struggling. Wisp was barely being played.

Rebb was using every ability wisp had, I wouldnt call that "barely being played". We (as a community) are also more intelligent than what you try to insinuate. We can tell she is not paying full attention. However, we can see how effective wisp was when her abilities were being used. The radial blind was only mildly effective at CC, she has two utility abilities that do not contribute to damage, and one damage ability that was struggling to kill level 35's (not to mention not touching the amalgum enemies). There is not the excuse of "well rebb was distracted" with the demonstration because Wisp's kit is  very one dimensional. As in her 4 you turn on and aim in the general direction, and the buffs you just keep returning to to refresh. The radial stun you just use occasionally. Nothing in her kit takes effort or is interactive (other than the aoe stun commng also from your buff stations, but that does not count and is not even substantial if it did). Which is the main problem with her kit. I also dont buy your conspiracy that they wanted to make the game mode look harder. I would not call failing a mission multiple times over something that builds hype. 

[Birdframe_Prime]

1 hour ago, Wyvern_WX-0-1 said:

Rebb was using every ability wisp had

She cast her survival ability (which grants invisibility at base, but also creates invulnerability after a teleport, which she only used once) only around 5 times in the entire mission, she used 4-5 instances of her buffs, she used the new 3 precisely 3 times and failed to even explain what it does now, and missed 50% of her shots with that 4, and the shots she did place rarely, if ever, aimed effectively at more than one enemy at a time (when they've said it has punch through to hit multiple enemies in a line to scale up the damage faster).

Not only that, there was barely any use of in-air invisibility either.

That is what any player would call 'barely being played'.

But you seem to be missing the point here: Have you not read how disappointed I am with the kit? I have provided multiple, exceptionally long posts about the topic. You are arguing something that I have already argued. My opinions on this kit are exceptionally well documented in this thread, and your insistence on repeating my own points back to me is ridiculous.

For somebody claiming to be part of the intelligent Community, your reading comprehension could use a little work.

[Horned_Fox]

5 minutes ago, Birdframe_Prime said:

She cast her survival ability (which grants invisibility at base, but also creates invulnerability after a teleport, which she only used once) only around 5 times in the entire mission, she used 4-5 instances of her buffs, she used the new 3 precisely 3 times and failed to even explain what it does now, and missed 50% of her shots with that 4, and the shots she did place rarely, if ever, aimed effectively at more than one enemy at a time (when they've said it has punch through to hit multiple enemies in a line to scale up the damage faster).

Not only that, there was barely any use of in-air invisibility either.

That is what any player would call 'barely being played'.

But you seem to be missing the point here: Have you not read how disappointed I am with the kit? I have provided multiple, exceptionally long posts about the topic. You are arguing something that I have already argued. My opinions on this kit are exceptionally well documented in this thread, and your insistence on repeating my own points back to me is ridiculous.

For somebody claiming to be part of the intelligent Community, your reading comprehension could use a little work.

She kept refreshing her buffs (so she was using it more than you want to make it seem like), Her 4 is A GIANT LAZER FROM THE SUN and is wide enough to hit most of the stuff she was aiming at with it. Even if it is that picky with its aoe then that is just another thing to add to the list (I dont think it was that picky) because no group of enemies are going to be that grouped up. Her 3 she stated was like a radial blind and it did not even seem to do anything when she did use it. She did not use passive (in-air invulnerability) because Wisp has no means to stay in the air other than aim gliding, and that would get tedious and annoying. The point is that the abilities were not "being under utilized" as you claim. No, she was not using them constantly, but they also did not have much use. 

Think of it this way, Mesa 2 would be vastly less useful if she did not also have 4. Yes you could still use 2 by itself, but it greatly benefits her 4 in a way that makes it valuable. Wisp's abilities dont do that. Her radial blind and buff stations work together, but they dont benefit each other. This is because the aoe ability seems to be useless and it does not kill anything. It did nothing to stop the enemies from damaging the objective for more than a few seconds. 

[Birdframe_Prime]

1 minute ago, Wyvern_WX-0-1 said:

Her 4 is A GIANT LAZER FROM THE SUN and is wide enough to hit most of the stuff she was aiming at with it

So why was she missing so much?

1 minute ago, Wyvern_WX-0-1 said:

Her 3 she stated was like a radial blind and it did not even seem to do anything when she did use it.

Her 3 previously was radial damage. What we saw from the DevStream was a stun that could have been a blind, but when Rebecca said the words 'so when you use her 3', she was immediately distracted and didn't finish the sentence, we don't know what it actually does.

Likely to be disappointing. But again, how do we know if it's not being actually previewed?

3 minutes ago, Wyvern_WX-0-1 said:

he did not use passive (in-air invulnerability) because Wisp has no means to stay in the air other than aim gliding

Warframes can literally jump, double jump, aim glide, wall bounce to refresh and effectively use that passive of hers to stay invisible for a comparative time to Loki if necessary.

4 minutes ago, Wyvern_WX-0-1 said:

No, she was not using them constantly, but they also did not have much use.

She was using the 4 constantly, and she was using it badly. The abilities that could be actually useful out of her kit (and I say could in a loose term), were not used more than I can count on one hand for each.

How is that not under-utilised?

Even with as disappointed as I am in the abilities as they stand, I'm fairly sure that any one of us playing that mission instead, with even a modicum of attention, would be mowing down enemies of that level, even with damage reduction penalties. If that radial blind also emits from her 1's placements, for example, we might not need the range and could instead tactically place them to segment off the enemies whenever we press. If her 2 grants a guaranteed state of invulnerability on teleport, we can tank massive instances of damage with ease. With that invisibility option it literally doesn't matter that she can't stay in the air, we can blink in and out of sight with actual movement and never have to take damage in the first place in a more mobile game mode.

As I said, my views on what these abilities are and do is very negative.

But I've played enough Warframe to see and attempt to exploit the functions that I've seen so far. I can at least be hopeful that, even if she's only a C Tier frame, I can make her work.

[Horned_Fox]

3 minutes ago, Birdframe_Prime said:

 

She literally said they moved her blind from her 3 to the stun. if you want to have to jump around like a monkey (B hop, effectively) in order to utilize an ability, then be my guest. you have contradicted yourself a fwe times, and your ignoring what I am saying. SO I am not going to discuss this further with you. 🙂 

[Birdframe_Prime]

4 minutes ago, Wyvern_WX-0-1 said:

you have contradicted yourself a fwe times, and your ignoring what I am saying.

Show me where, and no, I'm contradicting you. Ignoring you would be not replying.

You're the one that's claiming, against video evidence, that what we had was an actual example of how any of us would play this frame. And worse, you're claiming that the poor showing we had is representative of how well that frame will perform overall.

And all of this debate spawning off of your utterly ridiculous comment of frames 'struggling' at level 30.

If anything, I'm glad you're going to stop this, because you were never trying to partake in a discussion in the first place.

[Xyhon]

Revenants 4 is not "bad" in terms of damage etc, it's bad by design. It is the same as it was with press 4 Ash, Press 4 Banshee, Ember, and so on. This is just lazy design. Lately, they had few interesting ideas that went sideways (Garuda - because making it almost melee frame with better claws than Valkyr is always bad, Hildryn with wtf is this 4th even supposed to be, and now this - Wisp who even is not a wisp). Really, they have themed frames earlier, for ex Saryn, Oberon, etc. Now they release Wisp which would suppose to be opposing and complementing Oberon's abilieties, but noo, closest thing we got to a "wisp" is Titania. This is just screaming lazy design again. And again. Making her almost stationary because why not, in a game about mobility. It's almost as the same mistake made with Hildryn - second Mag treatment, making her strongest against 1 faction, and totally useless against infested, because she can't get use her skills on them properly to instigate overshields except for Sentinel/other players help.

 

[selig_fay]

il y a 17 minutes, Xyhon a dit :

Hildryn - second Mag treatment, making her strongest against 1 faction, and totally useless against infested

She has good control against infected. Toxin only problem, and antinoxinn prime can solve this problem. Hildryn, is one of the few frames that really feel good.

[selig_fay]

Il y a 16 heures, moostar95 a dit :

Agreed, i #*!%ing love this frame. She gave me hope that some of these newer frames can be good if de takes their time to design. Been maiming her since release and this is coming from a guy who is picky with frames. Even more so with the new ones. I didn't like any of last year's frames at all. Mag is my 2nd main frame. I don't know why I have fun with frames with shield powers so much. 

No, she has problems, like I don't understand why they made 3 abilities able to deal damage to enemies. This is a good support, but a senseless waste of shields on a weak damag. I hope they at least make an augment that adds something cool like resistance to toxin or statuses but removes that flaw. He's infuriating. 

But this topic is about Wisp, my opinion - if buffs will not be skanirovaniya with the level of the enemy is another garbage, like Titania. Yes, she has a curious second ability and a passive ability, but the rest looks like a waste of energy.

[Birdframe_Prime]

4 minutes ago, zhellon said:

if buffs will not be skanirovaniya with the level of the enemy is another garbage

First, I genuinely worry about your grammar and how much your auto-correct is getting involved...

But what's to scale about her buffs? We don't know how much health her red buff gives when you mod her well, or whether it comes with health regen too (or if that was just the dev-hacks), but we did see it add around 410 points of health in the preview. It doesn't seem much, but remember that this is a 1 ability, so it's going to cost only 25 Energy or less... give that buff to a frame that's already tanky, or give that buff to a frame that's incredibly squishy, and they'll appreciate it. In fact, everyone would appreciate that buff except possibly the min-maxed Garuda players... That's actually not a bad buff. On Wisp herself... that may not be so good. She may not have the damage reduction necessary for that buff to be anything more than a placebo.

But the other two are a straight speed buff, and a CC aura. What about those can actually scale with the enemy? Why would you even want them to?

[selig_fay]

il y a 34 minutes, Birdframe_Prime a dit :

But the other two are a straight speed buff, and a CC aura. What about those can actually scale with the enemy? Why would you even want them to?

 

The problem is that this is a negligible increase already at the levels of 60+. Without additional resistance or mechanics, this increase is simply useless. Let's get something straight. Buff Trinity increases your effective hp in 4 times. Gara or Baruuk or Nezha in 10 times. These buffs in addition to the resist, give other bonuses. 

СС aura - maybe she'll be useful. It may be. It will not replace a full CC frame. And I doubt it will be effective enough, because. Sorry, I love Titania and I don't believe in miracles. Just accept it as a fact.

[Birdframe_Prime]

2 hours ago, zhellon said:

The problem is that this is a negligible increase already at the levels of 60+.

Yeah, but not if you actually have those resistance mechanics, which is why it's a team buff. You use it to give other frames better health too.

Wisp already has an inbuilt mitigation function in her passive, which is possible to exploit with even less cost than a Loki. People seem to be getting a little put off by the way that they may have to actually use parkour and aimglide to get the most out of it, but just jumping and being airborne is an incredibly easy thing for any Warframe.

On top of that she has invisibility and a decoy and literal invulnerability on her 2.

In the one sense, like all frames with invisibility, the added health pool is there to deal with AoE effects, auras or accidental shots while moving. In a specific case, it's to be able to survive a basic bleed, toxin or fire proc by having enough time to mitigate the damage by other means, such as using that 2 to be invulnerable for some or all of the rest of the proc. In another sense, it's also totally unlike a stealth frame because instead of using the invisibility to actually move without being seen, it's used as a mitigation factor too, by making sure that the enemies have to retarget or can't target her when she's using either her passive or her cast.

Then, when you factor in that her 1 also has the CC element (again, I don't know how you can scale a CC with enemy level, the whole point of CC is that it's independent of enemy level and is just as effective whether the enemy is level 10 or level 10,000) which should, in theory, prevent enemies from getting too close in the same way that Mesa's 2 can, although more along the lines of having a fully charged Vauban Tesla strapped to you...

And then the other buff is... speed. Again, how would this scale, it just makes you faster. Even Volt, who has speed as a literal ability on its own, doesn't scale his speed.

More importantly, why expect any scaling at all on a fixed-effect 1st ability buff? No frame with a buff ability that low on the energy-cost spectrum scales. In point of fact, I just went through the roster; no frame has a team buff ability on the 1 cast. You take what you get as far as I'm concerned.

[selig_fay]

@Birdframe_Prime I don't mind if you're right. Invisibility in the air is a really great passive ability.  And I really like her 2 ability, which in fact replaces the whole Loki with one button. But I'm really afraid that her 1, 3 and 4 abilities will be outright garbage, which is created only to burn excess energy. It looks cool, Wisp creates a miniature base. But I still have the feeling that all of her abilities, including her passive ability, were made in a hurry, and because of this we get only 2 hits out of 5. In General, need to look. The description is not impressive, that's my opinion.

[Circle_of_Psi]

 

 

 

On 2019-05-08 at 11:49 PM, (PS4)wintersfrozen said:

-snip-

I agree. however, if DE to turn into another AAA game, it won't survive long enough to see the end of the day, just look at that the Gaming Community has done to the others (EA/Actiction/Bethsa) etc. Even the law got involved at this point, not a great day for Gamers lately

"Right now they are focused on getting players to come back every day to play." how much money can we get from those players or how much money can we get from players who can't play that X amount. 

This is the part that I understand your fears on. There has been plenty of proof of this, such as you brought up a Hyldrin, was only buyable for a certain time, etc. I highly doute they'll make us pay for "DLC" due to like I said above Warframe won't live long enough to see how it works out. People forget DE is a small company, once the players go, that's it. Not like EA or so, where they can just keep ripping money off poor souls or (the loyalists, to put it nicely).

I understand your fears and respect them, but given how much things have blown up lately, this is a VERY dangerous thing to try. So try not to worry too much.

[Xyhon]

On 2019-05-14 at 11:44 PM, zhellon said:

She has good control against infected. Toxin only problem, and antinoxinn prime can solve this problem. Hildryn, is one of the few frames that really feel good.

She can do jack S#&$ to replenish shields and get overshields which are her base def. Really, toxin is not a problem when you can cast and remove status.

[selig_fay]

il y a 5 minutes, Xyhon a dit :

She can do jack S#&$ to replenish shields and get overshields which are her base def. Really, toxin is not a problem when you can cast and remove status.

This is a problem for my build, designed for flight. Although I have about 190% resistance to the toxin in the air. Eat this, toxic ancients.

[(PSN)wintersfrozen]

11 hours ago, Circle_of_Psi said:

I agree. however, if DE to turn into another AAA game, it won't survive long enough to see the end of the day, just look at that the Gaming Community has done to the others (EA/Actiction/Bethsa) etc. Even the law got involved at this point, not a great day for Gamers lately

"Right now they are focused on getting players to come back every day to play." how much money can we get from those players or how much money can we get from players who can't play that X amount. 

This is the part that I understand your fears on. There has been plenty of proof of this, such as you brought up a Hyldrin, was only buyable for a certain time, etc. I highly doute they'll make us pay for "DLC" due to like I said above Warframe won't live long enough to see how it works out. People forget DE is a small company, once the players go, that's it. Not like EA or so, where they can just keep ripping money off poor souls or (the loyalists, to put it nicely).

I understand your fears and respect them, but given how much things have blown up lately, this is a VERY dangerous thing to try. So try not to worry too much.

The issue is that while DE is still too small to be considered for the triple A tittles (esp in the MMO industry) but its not as small as it used to be. DE no longer falls into the indie space as those are typically handled by teams under 50 let alone the 200 that DE has. So they are still in a grey area of where to place them comparison wise.

I don't imagine DE will force players to pay for up coming content (new war or any open worlds etc.) but I think grind walls and time gaited items are going to be our new norm and that saddens me to a degree. Things like Nightwave will force players to come back every day or miss out on exclusive items, gear and general MR fodder. Again it comes down to a desire to boost numbers which can look impressive but without content to back it up it will lead to burn out and a drop in numbers.

It's likely that Wisp and other new frames will have a similar time gait before a general "free" release While it does disappoint me I think it wouldn't be too impactful on the general player base. If someone is going to grind for a new frame they will grind regardless, if they want to purchase it a few days to try it before everyone else they will do so.

The catch though is with type of mindset the frames we will see released may diminish in creativity and overall quality in favor of more options and faster release speed. Wisp could be seen as an example of this "quantity over quality" design. There is a large split on her overall design and abilities and the lack of acknowledgement during the last Dev stream really sunk home for a lot of people. It's possible that because of how the players were split DE thought it best to ignore the criticism or that the changes would set back wisp's release and the release of the gas city. (something that I would be fine with but others would not).

I suppose the easiest way to explain my hesitation right now would be to look at the past year with DE and examine everything they have done and wonder what the goal for the future would be. The company has faced some backlash recently and hasn't handled themselves in the fashion that we have come to know them. A lot of dismissive responses feel like the new norm and while DE is under no obligation to respond to any critism or concern, they have in the past conducted themselves in a way that was incredibly admirable. The recent issues brought to the for front of critism though have not received the same admirable conduct as before.

I suppose my worry comes down to 3 things. 1) What deal is DE trying to make behind the scenes that would need number boosting. 2) Can DE look to the critism with a fair light or will all critism be tossed aside or viewed as an attack unless requested by the company. (See nightwave thread by mods). 3) How long will the game survive as we know it in its current state? (no more quest frames, quests take years between, more and more grind walls added, etc.)

[selig_fay]

il y a 3 minutes, (PS4)wintersfrozen a dit :

Things like Nightwave will force players to come back every day or miss out on exclusive items, gear and general MR fodder

Nightwave will be redesigned. I believe that on the contrary, they should strengthen the nightwave, because it can't get any lower, players literally do not have to do anything to get rewards. In two weeks, I earned 8 nightwave ranks, and I didn't do anything specifically for that.

[(PSN)wintersfrozen]

31 minutes ago, zhellon said:

Nightwave will be redesigned. I believe that on the contrary, they should strengthen the nightwave, because it can't get any lower, players literally do not have to do anything to get rewards. In two weeks, I earned 8 nightwave ranks, and I didn't do anything specifically for that.

This is a bit off topic form the wisp conversation so I have spoilered it.
 

Spoiler

 

Nightwave split players and continues to do so.

You made 8 ranks in 2 weeks congratulations. No one in my clan got above rank 10 during the entire time it's been going. The difference comes down to player skill, time allotment and the challenges themselves. Everyone in my clan are all over the age of 25 with families, jobs, college and other commitments that keep them from being able to devote the time nightwave requires. The average play time for my clan is about 1-3 hours per week per person. That time is split up into 10 minute sections here and there, maybe an hour or so if they're lucky. We are by no means elite players looking for challenges, but rather mostly causal players wanting to enjoy a space ninja game.

The point of nightwave was to make everything from alerts available at all times for players to enjoy. This was something that people in my clan should have loved however nightwave does that by making the currency needed to buy things locked to a season and further locked behind minimum rank 3. The challenges are all more time consuming then a single alert was and not all challenges are created equal. At the start of nightwave several people I knew just gave up and said "call me when the new war or rail jack drops". That isn't good.

I can find a Ayatan Treasure 1-3 5 minute runs with little effort. Some people couldn't get the 3 required for 1 challenge let alone 5. Those without Tenno can't really do the eidolon captures. If your not far enough in fortuna's grind then you can't really take on the orbs. No sorties for the tenno less, no kuva for the tenno less. No arbitrations for those who haven't unlocked everything. Nightwave's main goal was to replace alerts, Yet the alerts were simple things for little to no skill and little to no time for items basically required to continue playing the game. They also gave items new/casual players need to get better so they could in time experience those 2+hour survival runs.

As a band aid for the above challenges we got things like kill 100 enemies, jump a few times, go help clem, etc. But these were after a major backlash from players with little time or little skill and even then they didn't show up till over halfway through. Nightwave does not need to be harder/more grind intensive unless it is going to cater solely to the hard core players. At which point a lesser version of night wave or the return of alerts needs to happen for the casual and new players to enjoy. Aura mods, credits, niatan etc. are needed by newer players far more then elite/vets.

Don't missunderstand I fully believe there needs to be harder content in the game with challenges and rewards meant for the best of the best to enjoy but I do not want casual or new players to suffer because it takes something they need and locks it behind this new challenge with odds stacked against them.

Had nightwave not removed alerts and was soley just a place to get alt heads and cool nightwave limited time exclusives (and the umbra forma because no new player needs that) I doubt people would care nearly as much as they do. If every challenge completed yielded creds that don't expire at the end of a season I doubt people would complain as much. If alerts ran in tandem with nightwave so you could still get your credits, oxium, galum, niatan, argon crystals, arua mods etc. people might not complain as much. But none of that happened and that is why nightwave needs to change. Not to make it harder but more inclusive because it removed vital things for none-elite players. Or at the least those vital things for non-elite players needs to be as accessible (or more) then they were before for the sake of new/casual players.

 

 

Edited May 16, 2019 by (PS4)wintersfrozen