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ShikiRen

Wisp Review/Early feedback

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Revenants 4 is not "bad" in terms of damage etc, it's bad by design. It is the same as it was with press 4 Ash, Press 4 Banshee, Ember, and so on. This is just lazy design. Lately, they had few interesting ideas that went sideways (Garuda - because making it almost melee frame with better claws than Valkyr is always bad, Hildryn with wtf is this 4th even supposed to be, and now this - Wisp who even is not a wisp). Really, they have themed frames earlier, for ex Saryn, Oberon, etc. Now they release Wisp which would suppose to be opposing and complementing Oberon's abilieties, but noo, closest thing we got to a "wisp" is Titania. This is just screaming lazy design again. And again. Making her almost stationary because why not, in a game about mobility. It's almost as the same mistake made with Hildryn - second Mag treatment, making her strongest against 1 faction, and totally useless against infested, because she can't get use her skills on them properly to instigate overshields except for Sentinel/other players help.

 

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il y a 17 minutes, Xyhon a dit :

Hildryn - second Mag treatment, making her strongest against 1 faction, and totally useless against infested

She has good control against infected. Toxin only problem, and antinoxinn prime can solve this problem. Hildryn, is one of the few frames that really feel good.

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2 hours ago, zhellon said:

She has good control against infected. Toxin only problem, and antinoxinn prime can solve this problem. Hildryn, is one of the few frames that really feel good.

Agreed, i #*!%ing love this frame. She gave me hope that some of these newer frames can be good if de takes their time to design. Been maiming her since release and this is coming from a guy who is picky with frames. Even more so with the new ones. I didn't like any of last year's frames at all. Mag is my 2nd main frame. I don't know why I have fun with frames with shield powers so much. 

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Il y a 16 heures, moostar95 a dit :

Agreed, i #*!%ing love this frame. She gave me hope that some of these newer frames can be good if de takes their time to design. Been maiming her since release and this is coming from a guy who is picky with frames. Even more so with the new ones. I didn't like any of last year's frames at all. Mag is my 2nd main frame. I don't know why I have fun with frames with shield powers so much. 

No, she has problems, like I don't understand why they made 3 abilities able to deal damage to enemies. This is a good support, but a senseless waste of shields on a weak damag. I hope they at least make an augment that adds something cool like resistance to toxin or statuses but removes that flaw. He's infuriating. 

But this topic is about Wisp, my opinion - if buffs will not be skanirovaniya with the level of the enemy is another garbage, like Titania. Yes, she has a curious second ability and a passive ability, but the rest looks like a waste of energy.

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4 minutes ago, zhellon said:

if buffs will not be skanirovaniya with the level of the enemy is another garbage

First, I genuinely worry about your grammar and how much your auto-correct is getting involved...

But what's to scale about her buffs? We don't know how much health her red buff gives when you mod her well, or whether it comes with health regen too (or if that was just the dev-hacks), but we did see it add around 410 points of health in the preview. It doesn't seem much, but remember that this is a 1 ability, so it's going to cost only 25 Energy or less... give that buff to a frame that's already tanky, or give that buff to a frame that's incredibly squishy, and they'll appreciate it. In fact, everyone would appreciate that buff except possibly the min-maxed Garuda players... That's actually not a bad buff. On Wisp herself... that may not be so good. She may not have the damage reduction necessary for that buff to be anything more than a placebo.

But the other two are a straight speed buff, and a CC aura. What about those can actually scale with the enemy? Why would you even want them to?

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il y a 34 minutes, Birdframe_Prime a dit :

But the other two are a straight speed buff, and a CC aura. What about those can actually scale with the enemy? Why would you even want them to?

 

The problem is that this is a negligible increase already at the levels of 60+. Without additional resistance or mechanics, this increase is simply useless. Let's get something straight. Buff Trinity increases your effective hp in 4 times. Gara or Baruuk or Nezha in 10 times. These buffs in addition to the resist, give other bonuses. 

СС aura - maybe she'll be useful. It may be. It will not replace a full CC frame. And I doubt it will be effective enough, because. Sorry, I love Titania and I don't believe in miracles. Just accept it as a fact.

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2 hours ago, zhellon said:

The problem is that this is a negligible increase already at the levels of 60+.

Yeah, but not if you actually have those resistance mechanics, which is why it's a team buff. You use it to give other frames better health too.

Wisp already has an inbuilt mitigation function in her passive, which is possible to exploit with even less cost than a Loki. People seem to be getting a little put off by the way that they may have to actually use parkour and aimglide to get the most out of it, but just jumping and being airborne is an incredibly easy thing for any Warframe.

On top of that she has invisibility and a decoy and literal invulnerability on her 2.

In the one sense, like all frames with invisibility, the added health pool is there to deal with AoE effects, auras or accidental shots while moving. In a specific case, it's to be able to survive a basic bleed, toxin or fire proc by having enough time to mitigate the damage by other means, such as using that 2 to be invulnerable for some or all of the rest of the proc. In another sense, it's also totally unlike a stealth frame because instead of using the invisibility to actually move without being seen, it's used as a mitigation factor too, by making sure that the enemies have to retarget or can't target her when she's using either her passive or her cast.

Then, when you factor in that her 1 also has the CC element (again, I don't know how you can scale a CC with enemy level, the whole point of CC is that it's independent of enemy level and is just as effective whether the enemy is level 10 or level 10,000) which should, in theory, prevent enemies from getting too close in the same way that Mesa's 2 can, although more along the lines of having a fully charged Vauban Tesla strapped to you...

And then the other buff is... speed. Again, how would this scale, it just makes you faster. Even Volt, who has speed as a literal ability on its own, doesn't scale his speed.

More importantly, why expect any scaling at all on a fixed-effect 1st ability buff? No frame with a buff ability that low on the energy-cost spectrum scales. In point of fact, I just went through the roster; no frame has a team buff ability on the 1 cast. You take what you get as far as I'm concerned.

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@Birdframe_Prime I don't mind if you're right. Invisibility in the air is a really great passive ability.  And I really like her 2 ability, which in fact replaces the whole Loki with one button. But I'm really afraid that her 1, 3 and 4 abilities will be outright garbage, which is created only to burn excess energy. It looks cool, Wisp creates a miniature base. But I still have the feeling that all of her abilities, including her passive ability, were made in a hurry, and because of this we get only 2 hits out of 5. In General, need to look. The description is not impressive, that's my opinion.

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On 2019-05-08 at 11:49 PM, (PS4)wintersfrozen said:

-snip-

I agree. however, if DE to turn into another AAA game, it won't survive long enough to see the end of the day, just look at that the Gaming Community has done to the others (EA/Actiction/Bethsa) etc. Even the law got involved at this point, not a great day for Gamers lately

"Right now they are focused on getting players to come back every day to play." how much money can we get from those players or how much money can we get from players who can't play that X amount. 

This is the part that I understand your fears on. There has been plenty of proof of this, such as you brought up a Hyldrin, was only buyable for a certain time, etc. I highly doute they'll make us pay for "DLC" due to like I said above Warframe won't live long enough to see how it works out. People forget DE is a small company, once the players go, that's it. Not like EA or so, where they can just keep ripping money off poor souls or (the loyalists, to put it nicely).

I understand your fears and respect them, but given how much things have blown up lately, this is a VERY dangerous thing to try. So try not to worry too much.

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On 2019-05-14 at 11:44 PM, zhellon said:

She has good control against infected. Toxin only problem, and antinoxinn prime can solve this problem. Hildryn, is one of the few frames that really feel good.

She can do jack S#&$ to replenish shields and get overshields which are her base def. Really, toxin is not a problem when you can cast and remove status.

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il y a 5 minutes, Xyhon a dit :

She can do jack S#&$ to replenish shields and get overshields which are her base def. Really, toxin is not a problem when you can cast and remove status.

This is a problem for my build, designed for flight. Although I have about 190% resistance to the toxin in the air. Eat this, toxic ancients.

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11 hours ago, Circle_of_Psi said:

I agree. however, if DE to turn into another AAA game, it won't survive long enough to see the end of the day, just look at that the Gaming Community has done to the others (EA/Actiction/Bethsa) etc. Even the law got involved at this point, not a great day for Gamers lately

"Right now they are focused on getting players to come back every day to play." how much money can we get from those players or how much money can we get from players who can't play that X amount. 

This is the part that I understand your fears on. There has been plenty of proof of this, such as you brought up a Hyldrin, was only buyable for a certain time, etc. I highly doute they'll make us pay for "DLC" due to like I said above Warframe won't live long enough to see how it works out. People forget DE is a small company, once the players go, that's it. Not like EA or so, where they can just keep ripping money off poor souls or (the loyalists, to put it nicely).

I understand your fears and respect them, but given how much things have blown up lately, this is a VERY dangerous thing to try. So try not to worry too much.

The issue is that while DE is still too small to be considered for the triple A tittles (esp in the MMO industry) but its not as small as it used to be. DE no longer falls into the indie space as those are typically handled by teams under 50 let alone the 200 that DE has. So they are still in a grey area of where to place them comparison wise.

I don't imagine DE will force players to pay for up coming content (new war or any open worlds etc.) but I think grind walls and time gaited items are going to be our new norm and that saddens me to a degree. Things like Nightwave will force players to come back every day or miss out on exclusive items, gear and general MR fodder. Again it comes down to a desire to boost numbers which can look impressive but without content to back it up it will lead to burn out and a drop in numbers.

It's likely that Wisp and other new frames will have a similar time gait before a general "free" release While it does disappoint me I think it wouldn't be too impactful on the general player base. If someone is going to grind for a new frame they will grind regardless, if they want to purchase it a few days to try it before everyone else they will do so.

The catch though is with type of mindset the frames we will see released may diminish in creativity and overall quality in favor of more options and faster release speed. Wisp could be seen as an example of this "quantity over quality" design. There is a large split on her overall design and abilities and the lack of acknowledgement during the last Dev stream really sunk home for a lot of people. It's possible that because of how the players were split DE thought it best to ignore the criticism or that the changes would set back wisp's release and the release of the gas city. (something that I would be fine with but others would not).

I suppose the easiest way to explain my hesitation right now would be to look at the past year with DE and examine everything they have done and wonder what the goal for the future would be. The company has faced some backlash recently and hasn't handled themselves in the fashion that we have come to know them. A lot of dismissive responses feel like the new norm and while DE is under no obligation to respond to any critism or concern, they have in the past conducted themselves in a way that was incredibly admirable. The recent issues brought to the for front of critism though have not received the same admirable conduct as before.

I suppose my worry comes down to 3 things. 1) What deal is DE trying to make behind the scenes that would need number boosting. 2) Can DE look to the critism with a fair light or will all critism be tossed aside or viewed as an attack unless requested by the company. (See nightwave thread by mods). 3) How long will the game survive as we know it in its current state? (no more quest frames, quests take years between, more and more grind walls added, etc.)

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il y a 3 minutes, (PS4)wintersfrozen a dit :

Things like Nightwave will force players to come back every day or miss out on exclusive items, gear and general MR fodder

Nightwave will be redesigned. I believe that on the contrary, they should strengthen the nightwave, because it can't get any lower, players literally do not have to do anything to get rewards. In two weeks, I earned 8 nightwave ranks, and I didn't do anything specifically for that.

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31 minutes ago, zhellon said:

Nightwave will be redesigned. I believe that on the contrary, they should strengthen the nightwave, because it can't get any lower, players literally do not have to do anything to get rewards. In two weeks, I earned 8 nightwave ranks, and I didn't do anything specifically for that.

This is a bit off topic form the wisp conversation so I have spoilered it.
 

Spoiler

 

Nightwave split players and continues to do so.

You made 8 ranks in 2 weeks congratulations. No one in my clan got above rank 10 during the entire time it's been going. The difference comes down to player skill, time allotment and the challenges themselves. Everyone in my clan are all over the age of 25 with families, jobs, college and other commitments that keep them from being able to devote the time nightwave requires. The average play time for my clan is about 1-3 hours per week per person. That time is split up into 10 minute sections here and there, maybe an hour or so if they're lucky. We are by no means elite players looking for challenges, but rather mostly causal players wanting to enjoy a space ninja game.

The point of nightwave was to make everything from alerts available at all times for players to enjoy. This was something that people in my clan should have loved however nightwave does that by making the currency needed to buy things locked to a season and further locked behind minimum rank 3. The challenges are all more time consuming then a single alert was and not all challenges are created equal. At the start of nightwave several people I knew just gave up and said "call me when the new war or rail jack drops". That isn't good.

I can find a Ayatan Treasure 1-3 5 minute runs with little effort. Some people couldn't get the 3 required for 1 challenge let alone 5. Those without Tenno can't really do the eidolon captures. If your not far enough in fortuna's grind then you can't really take on the orbs. No sorties for the tenno less, no kuva for the tenno less. No arbitrations for those who haven't unlocked everything. Nightwave's main goal was to replace alerts, Yet the alerts were simple things for little to no skill and little to no time for items basically required to continue playing the game. They also gave items new/casual players need to get better so they could in time experience those 2+hour survival runs.

As a band aid for the above challenges we got things like kill 100 enemies, jump a few times, go help clem, etc. But these were after a major backlash from players with little time or little skill and even then they didn't show up till over halfway through. Nightwave does not need to be harder/more grind intensive unless it is going to cater solely to the hard core players. At which point a lesser version of night wave or the return of alerts needs to happen for the casual and new players to enjoy. Aura mods, credits, niatan etc. are needed by newer players far more then elite/vets.

Don't missunderstand I fully believe there needs to be harder content in the game with challenges and rewards meant for the best of the best to enjoy but I do not want casual or new players to suffer because it takes something they need and locks it behind this new challenge with odds stacked against them.

Had nightwave not removed alerts and was soley just a place to get alt heads and cool nightwave limited time exclusives (and the umbra forma because no new player needs that) I doubt people would care nearly as much as they do. If every challenge completed yielded creds that don't expire at the end of a season I doubt people would complain as much. If alerts ran in tandem with nightwave so you could still get your credits, oxium, galum, niatan, argon crystals, arua mods etc. people might not complain as much. But none of that happened and that is why nightwave needs to change. Not to make it harder but more inclusive because it removed vital things for none-elite players. Or at the least those vital things for non-elite players needs to be as accessible (or more) then they were before for the sake of new/casual players.

 

 

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@(PS4)wintersfrozen

I didn't talk about the bigger grind, I said the trials were too easy to do. Yes, by itself, to stand an hour is difficult. But at the end, of this hour you don't do anything special. You need more tests, which are really tests, for example, to pass the espionage mission being secretive and not using any abilities. Large part that is proposed now can be done with closed eyes.

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From what I understand, Whisp/Wisp is meant to be a mobile, agile frame that is good at subterfuge and foiling the enemy; at least that's what I hear the original ideas were, much like Revenant being an "eidolon frame".

Yet again though, they've gone completely off the track (as with revenant).

 

Her 1 makes her stationary and her 4 makes her almost immobile while also being a bloomin' sun laser.... yeah, so much for mobility and subterfuge.

Would have been a better idea to give the "cryopod defense objectives" those abilities and make it a playable entity, at least it would fit the theme.

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4 minutes ago, zhellon said:

@(PS4)wintersfrozen

I didn't talk about the bigger grind, I said the trials were too easy to do. Yes, by itself, to stand an hour is difficult. But at the end, of this hour you don't do anything special. You need more tests, which are really tests, for example, to pass the espionage mission being secretive and not using any abilities. Large part that is proposed now can be done with closed eyes.

Again I would say it depends on the player. A new player is going to have a harder time getting all spy vaults without alarms then a vet. A casual player might not be able to get 3 treasures and star them up where as a hardcore player knows all locations and can have it done in a blink of an eye. Someone who is just trying fortuna for the first time today wont be able to fight the orbs where as someone who has been playing it since launch might know how to take them down within a matter of minutes. What is easy to one person isn't to another.

Most people don't look to a child learning their ABC's and expect them to read Homers "The Iliad" then belittle them for not being able to read it let alone understand the complexities of it. Perhaps there is a cognitive dissonance among gamers that driving to be the best means not having to acknowledge that we were not always as skilled as we are today. That however is something game developers do have to look at because catering to one player base and this incudes making trials that you, yourself, might not find hard but others might.

I wont deny the game needs more challenge for those who crave it but nightwave, as a replacement for alerts, is not the place for it. Perhaps the new mode that Wisp theoretically will be locked behind might be able to provide that challenge you clearly crave without the need to remove content that less intensive players need to progress threw the game.

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il y a 3 minutes, (PS4)wintersfrozen a dit :

Again I would say it depends on the player. A new player is going to have a harder time getting all spy vaults without alarms then a vet. A casual player might not be able to get 3 treasures and star them up where as a hardcore player knows all locations and can have it done in a blink of an eye. Someone who is just trying fortuna for the first time today wont be able to fight the orbs where as someone who has been playing it since launch might know how to take them down within a matter of minutes. What is easy to one person isn't to another.

Well, it's actually solvable. Of course it is quite difficult, such as the generation of tests, depending on the statistics of the account (time spent in the game). Yeah, we're getting off the subject.

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I didn't care for revenant but I think garuda and hildryn are pretty cool and made well enough. 

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So the Warframe Profile for Wisp came out, and I gotta say, her 3 looks better than I expected. It stuns enemies, and when an affected enemy is killed the damage they took travels to another enemy in the form of a small ball of light.

 

I'm glad her speed buff affects attack speed too, but I'm unsure if it affects fire rate and/or reload speed.

Also, it seems like the shock reservoir can electrocute enemies that come into range of it, if I saw correctly. Still useful for interception and defense

 

I'm a bit more hopeful for her. I hope her 3 can be cast while her 4 is active though...

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Will you look at that, she does spawn her one from a portal. I guess she does somewhat for the portal/dimensional theme they said she was.

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So ,

as per

 

"

Breach Surge
Open a dimensional breach to overwhelm nearby enemies and cause them to release aggressive Surge sparks when damaged.

"

Sure all abilities are new but this one seems to have changed.

Definitely better than the earlier radial damage of the reservoirs , so a welcome addition.

but is it me or is it just sounding like a reversed smite of Oberon or rank 0 pax seeker arcane?

Smite is single target on cast but the projectile hits multiple enemies. Seeker targets 4 enemies for headshots if you land a headshot. 

This one (looks like) is an area cast but then projectiles target single enemies (at least as per the video).

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Hu... Does Wisp has ANY synergy between the spells of her kit, now ?

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I honestly liked the original 3rd ability.  Seemed cool to not only have a buff, but a strategic defensive tool, as well!  I was looking forward to it.

The 4th ability I'm not a fan of.  It looks cool, just don't think it fits the theme.  Don't know why this went from a Wisp frame to a Portal frame all of a sudden.

Would have been cool to give her Revenant's original 4th, which was that mass sleep.  Feel like it would have fit the theme of Wisp better.  Could even give Sleeping enemies a radial "buff" to players, or something.  Or make THEM into explosives, like her 3rd was....

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