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ShikiRen

Wisp Review/Early feedback

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I'm... really starting to think they might just have different teams entirely in charge of mechanical kit design and appearance/theme, and just mash two things together at random. First the buff woman with absolutely nothing in her kit relating in any way to strength and instead entirely being about non-biological defenses, and now the ghost frame with... giga sun beam??

Still, I'll try her out. It's certainly cool as hell to portal to the sun, though her other abilities sound a bit sketchy. We'll see.

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2 hours ago, Gabbynaru said:

And that's useful where exactly? Everything in normal gameplay (up to sortie 3) dies in one hit without any buffs, so just cause the numbers are higher doesn't mean the ability is of any use, when with or without it they still die in one hit. So with that in mind, I'd have preferred to see them ripped to shreds, cause that's more entertaining than a bigger number behind the scenes.

Endurance runs.

Also no, the impact damage of her 1 makes it ineffective against armor and the higher the enemy level the higher the armor so higher the damage resistance. Sortie level armored enemies will require a significant amount of damage from her 1. So having a slash proc that completely bypasses that armor is very helpful.

I was sad to see the blender mode be replaced too, but the functionality of her current 4 is more than enough compensation for an ability where the only thing we knew about it was “AOE Damage”

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i don't get why people make threads like this. at the very bottom of the screen during a Devstream it says "Dev build" this means anything and everything you are watching is subject to change, the demonstration is just to show you the basics of what the ability does: actual stats, Utilities and Synergies are added later on, usually via a hotfix. you'll never actually knowhow good, mediocre, or bad she is at each aspect of Warframe until you actually play her. yet every time a new frame gets shown there's always a few that say "ugh, it's trash". maybe you're right... but how will you know until the frame is actually released?

honestly looks and sounds pretty decent to me on paper. bear in mind that this is frame #40.. we are past the point of frames overlapping with things like Invisibility, AoEs and high DPS ults. there aren't really any more original abilities left to put in, and every frame typically needs to have at least one DPS, one Survival skill and a half-decent CC just to be considered usable nowadays, so you're probably gonna find that every new frame fits this kind of basic formula, but with different effects and animations.

you know you can always just use a frame simply because you like them, right?

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Well, in the devstream, DE have talked about the way the design warframes nowadays and that made it really evident what the problem is. Instead of striving for quality, they're striving for a large quantity of warframes. This makes for honestly forgettable warframes that aren't very well-designed. Most 'good' warframes have one roll to fill (dps, tank, stealth), but the latest ones are all 'general use' frames, which aren't very useful in a game like this.

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2 hours ago, SRBvuk22 said:

 

Forth ability is just press2win,even worst than revenent, as his other abilities were at least decent.

AHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHA Revenants abilities AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH decent? AAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA. Gr8 joke 10/10.

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11 minutes ago, Riger82 said:

Bwahahaha. So does Mesa's 4 😛

"Press 4 to win" is reserved to volt, equinox, and other 1 button nukers. 

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I was deeply amused by it.  I was thinking she'd be more smoke and deception based, like some weird hybrid of Ivara and Limbo. 

Then I saw her deployables and thought, "Huh, Starcraft Frame". 

Then Reb talks about how if you could teleport/make teleport gates, why wouldn't you harness the POWER OF THE SUN!?

Me:. . . Wait, what, hold on-

Wisp: I'MA FIRIN MAH LAYZOR!!!

. . .

Clem but it looked cool, at least. 

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her 2nd is not good just looks cool it will go the way of decoy from loki. not really used that often.

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Just now, Mister_Sneeze said:

but I see her being too much of a hassle to most pubs to even deal with. I would much rather have a frame that could clear a mission without having to stop what they're doing to pick a buff back up. it'll also feel crappy for the person giving the buffs to constantly chasing that player making sure that when the buff runs out that the next one is right next to them creating an annoying situation for the wisp player. i think she'll be just fine in defensive missions types but then again you can just run sayrn, or any other mass damage frames to clear the room and progress faster.

From what it looks like she is meant to be more of a mixture of support and CC. Defense and interception missions are where she will shine for sure. Survival may also be a possibility as most plays just hole in a room or two and bounce back and forth so dropped her pods in those two rooms should be fine. She doesn't seam meant to be the main CC or support but more for a team that doesn't have both of those covered she could step into either role and fill it. And most people don't being in support characters to spy, capture or exterminate to she should be fine.

Characters like Sayrn are ment to be high damage and high DPS Crowd control is a different aspect. CC is meant more to pull a group to your DPS/Tank or away from them when they need healing. comparing her to Sayrn makes about as much sense as comparing Rhino to Titania. They are in two different categories that can overlap depending on builds but aren't meant to compete with each other in a team dynamic. 

No buff is permanent. Supports all have to chase the team or make the team come to them. Really its going to come down to a lot of players who don't play support having to learn what it means to be a support player with Wisp. Trinity and Octavia are more what I'm looking at when I say support VS Chroma. To get Octavia's buffs you literally have to be next to her and do things in accordance to the music. If your not close enough then you wont get the buffs. Titania's buffs you have to collect (though tribute isn't really worth the casting due to how bad the buffs are). Gara can buff allies but they have to be right on them when they do otherwise the buff just goes to Gara. It's really only in cases Chroma or Volt where they boost their party when they boost themselves and even then you have to be within a range to receive the boost.

Speaking of Volt I think the speed buff is going to be the only buff people have a problem with. Second to limbo Volt is one of those frames people bow out when they see. Solely because people don't enjoy a forced speed buff. I don't think they should get rid of it though but they will want to implement a way for people to remove that particular buff should they pick it up on accident.

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31 minutes ago, Ikyr0 said:

this is what happens when you cater to a bunch of nubs. "DE CAN I HAS MORE FRAHMES?" sure, here you go. pay meh. *distributes half-baked content*

How is making content catering to new players? Would you rather have no content and have another drought?

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40 minutes ago, Campaigner said:

Press 4 to win? It requires aim. 

They’re basically saying it’s another “press 4 for big damage attack that restricts some movement and requires minimal input from the player, like Danse Macabre”.

Which I have to agree with. I like the idea of a big sun beam laser cannon, but it needs to be more than just a straight forward beam of fire damage.

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1 hour ago, Methanoid said:

Announces Vauban rework
Proceeds to make another Vauban'alike deployable frame.

giphy.gif

No facepalm can describe my feelings about this. Same with talks about melee.

owmzp.jpg

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I agree with you on the fact that people need to learn to be more civil when giving feedback in general. By that I mean don't call-out devs by name and harass them. Saying that abilities of an unreleased warframe are "hot garbage" or "this is poop" and then explaining why it is "hot garbage" helps them change/tune the frame before release.

Also, please don't use "its a free game" as an excuse. If it free for you then that just means that someone else paid for you. (i.e; the people that buy prime access/plat and the like)

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35 minutes ago, YandereWaifu said:

thats what i mean like why would you stand still if you know enemies will do high damage if you do. though i shoulda said what i meant better tbh. 

I always move i swear nullifiers just have aimbot it’s only them

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1 hour ago, Aeon94 said:

4# I find her 4th quite interesting , as it feels like Solar version of Destiny 2's Chaos Reach and feels so good to watch it.

That made me think if Wisps Ult didn't use energy but instead charged up from running. Kind of like the Geomags.

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Let me start out with the following: This isn't about her potential gameplay, it's about the presentation of her abilities in regards to what the frame is trying to be artistically, additionally, this will be really ranty and obviously all based on my opinion, so be warned.

TL;DR at the bottom

So, Wisp's abilities, the ghost frame, have been showcased on Devstream today and I've got to say, I'm terribly disappointed in what most of her kit's design ended up being like.

Starting out with... 

  •  Wisp's Passive
Quote

Wisp turns invisible while airborne.

While this is certainly one of her more ghostly aspects, how exactly is invisibility while airborne specifically fitting the theme of ghosts and apparitions. Invisibility in itself can be linked to them by the classic trope of ghosts being able to turn invisible at will or mostly staying invisible altogether, but that's the point: *they are capable of constantly being invisible whenever they please*.

I'm not saying we should get another frame with a "tap ability and turn invisible" type of deal, but it certainly should trigger in a manner that is more intended and should make the player feel like they're haunting their targets, instead of being a glorified game of peek-a-boo.

  • Wisp's first ability, Reservoir:
Quote

Wisp can cycle through different buffs which, when planted, spawn a flower that continuously provides buffs to whoever steps onto it.

Ok now, the Invisibility is pretty ghostly, but how exactly are flowers related to ghosts? Isn't Wisp the ghost frame, with her name being a reference to will-o-wisps, you'd expect her kit to deceive and misguide unites, instead, she plants buffing flowers as if Wisp is the botanist frame, Oberon's best friend.

Nothing about this ability is playing into her name's origin or visuals and feels like it was meant for another frame entirely since buffing allies nor flowers are things that really go in line with what the frame visually tries to be.

  • Wisp's second ability, Light:
Quote

 Wisp sends out light in the shape of her towards a direction which draws in enemy fire, Wisp can recast the ability before it ends to teleport to the light's location, stunning nearby enemies.

Surprise, but, nothing to complain about here. This ability is perfectly fitting into her kit and the will-o-wisp theme, which is light that deceives the viewer or in this case, makes the enemies think it's Wisp herself.

While I personally think that a fear CC would have been fitting the theme more, some form of utility had to be added, otherwise, the ability would have been underperforming.

  •  Wisp's third ability, Radial Effects (because it wasn't named):
Quote

All of Wisp's Reservoirs will pulsate out a single wave that causes damage to enemies struck.

Ok, this plays into her first ability, which, as I've already established, isn't fitting her theme at all. Not to mention how boring, campy and simplistic the ability is, but that aside, the ability would have made a great fit for a flower/botanist frame, which places down flowers that buff allies, but damage all enemies that dare to get close to them, like a rose with thorns.

and finally...

  • Wisp's fourth ability, Sol:
Quote

Wisp create's a portal to the sun to harness its energy and shoot it towards the enemies.

What even, a portal to the sun that burns enemies? For a portal frame, a space frame or the previously mentioned flower/botanist frame, this ability would have made sense, but for a ghost? Why is this ability in her kit?

Look, for a flower frame, this could have had some great synergy with all it's flower related abilities, where it could empower the flowers placed down already, buff allies struck (because we all have a happy day with the sun being out) and burn enemies hit, a support and damage wombo-combo that has synergies with the flower theme of the frame, but Wisp isn't that frame.

Ok DE, I'm not saying the kit is terrible, some aspects certainly need some work (like the lackluster 3) but this is the correct kit for the wrong frame and I'm more than just flabbergasted that this kit made it into this frame, considering a previous statement made by you, related to Garuda, where you have the ideas but not the time.

If you do have the ideas, then how come there were no ideas to find to create a proper ghost frame that follows through with the theme given to it, because to me, as an outside viewer with no background information on her development outside of what you yourselves provide during the Devstreams, it looks like you ran out of ideas and just had to scrap together and fit in whatever ability ideas you had left, hence the title of this thread.

  •  To conclude:

You can keep the abilities, use them for another frame later down the line that is centered around them and fits the theme, but Wisp certainly isn't that frame and I really wish she would get a makeover to make her a frame that fits the deceiving, haunting ghost theme that was given to her by her visuals and name.

TL;DR:

Spoiler

Watch me rant for way too long about things that probably won't get changed anyway.

 

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I think her kit is just fine.

 

Place some reservoirs around the defense target, spam 3, profit.

Or fire off her 2 and use the extra second to give yourself that health/healing buff.

Or just fire her 4 and yell "PRAISE THE SUN!".

 

I mean, I've seen people complain that her 4 doesnt fit the kit. Reb said she "placed a portal next to the sun and uses it to summon the beam" or something. Sounds good to me. There's your portal magic. Now go enjoy it before they nerf it.

 

Really, just because she can't nuke the whole place in the blink of an eye, or CC the whole map and the planet next to it doesn't mean she sucks. I hate how people around here whine about things they didn't even get to use yet. Not to mention that we didn't see what mods Reb was using in the stream, so there's no guarantee she's weak. Maybe the only mods she was using were health/shield mods. At least I don't recall anyone mentioning the build used.

 

 

At the very least, I think we all can agree that a death beam like her 4 nice to look at. And I like fancy death beams. Goes well with my eyes.

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I like her 1-3 but I feel her 4 is so out of place it should be a meme. Like even Reb seamed to have a hard time justifying it in the stream other then "it looks cool".

 

I seriously want to know how we went from a ghost frame to "praise the sun" in a single warframe.

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She's the first frame I'm actually hyped for in ages. As a Loki Starter who loves my sly boi, she has a Trickster-Offensive toolkit and I like it.

Shush. This frame is taylor made for me, not other people.

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I'm 90% sure Wisp is inspired by Wraith from Evolve.

  • Same movement animation
  • Wisp's 2 is like Wraith's Warp Blast
  • Wisp's 4 has a similar orb effect to Wraith's Supernova 
  • Wisp goes transparent, like Wraith when she drops a decoy
  • Even their body shape is the same (just minus Wraith's extra arms)

Maybe it's just what happens when people try to make a "ghost" character.

On a more relevant note, I'm just happy to see a Warframe with a different playstlye. 

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To answer most of your concerns: Space "Ghost-like" Entity

 

I've never heard DE claim that Wisp is straight-up a "Ghost" or that her design is "Ghost". They've mentioned "Portals", they've mentioned "Her own little Dimension", but never "Ghost" that I've recalled.

 

There you go. Not a Ghost. Your concern about her powers not fitting the Frame are over. Glad to help.

 

EDIT: And yes, I'm aware they said "Sorta a Will-O-Wisp design" before, but that was during initial planning for the Frame, and not in these final stages they've eventually reached.

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Mix-n-match old frame powers to make a new frame is the trend. Scott said it just now in the devstream.

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I, for one, would really like Valkyr to have her real kit made, that of cats. I don't know how DE has gone this long while throwing lies at the player. Her visuals are clearly cat-like so I don't know how she could possibly have the kit she does. It can't be that my view of her theme is wrong or incomplete.

DE would never listen to me.

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