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JackHargreav

I'm satisfied with Warframe

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There are so many negative threads I just had to make this one.

Warframe changed a lot. And improved a lot. I could write a really long list about all the changes since it's release. How different damage worked back then, how awful the parkour system was (Do you remember that one grineer vent that was nightmare to get up to?), how useless melee was (Except for movement. I'm thinking about coptering.). The list just goes on. 

Right now we have a lot more. We got new tilesets (and tileset parts). The open world areas are so nice to just go around and appreciate how beautiful they are. I like to just go and take a walk on the Plains or in Vallis. Or just K-driving around in them. Just chilling. They also pack a variety of missions instead of just having one type. Mixing thing up.

I like the melee system we have. It's nice and fluid for the most part. (And DE is planning on improving it.) The weapon designs, the warframe designs, the deluxe skins are really #*!%ing nice too. I could go on forever about all the good things about the game. Warframe is the best free to play game imo. Sure it's grindy sometimes (Very Grindy), sure it has some problems (balancing and scaling issues for example) but the game improved so much I can't really be mad at it. Overall this game beats most pay to play games out there. Both in content and fairness.

I know many ppl don't like change but I'm fine with it. I can always just adapt to the new "meta" since the game is fun for the most part.

Edit: I should explain this because many ppl took my intentions in the wrong way. I DO NOT think that only praises should be on the forums and everywhere else. Criticism and feedback IS important. However sometimes It feels good to chill out a little bit, and appreciate what we have.

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2 minutes ago, JackHargreav said:

I can always just adapt to the new "meta" since the game is fun for the most part

I think this is the key to enjoying a game like Warframe and its something that is apparently way too difficult for a lot of people to wrap their brains around.

Far too many players get fixated on the "meta" and when it changes, or if a meta bit of gear gets changed, they get their panties in a bunch and REEEEE about how the devs have "broken the game".

I also think a lot of people have forgotten that games are meant to be fun...not a job.

 

The devs know the game isn't perfect and needs work in some areas...they even tell us this in the dev streams. But any changes tend to take quite a bit of time. Just requires some patience...something else a lot of people seem to lack.

 

For a F2P game Warframe isn't bad at all...and a lot better than some I could name.

 

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I am too. It's a little off-putting to see so much anger and so many griping. I mean, the developers are only human. Making things is hard, and Warframe is an amalgam of so many fluid processes built up over the course of 6 long and dedicated years. If anything, I'm incredibly impressed every new update implemented doesn't cause the whole system to collapse! That's some amazing dedication from the developers to keep things running as smoothly as they do with each iteration. Thank you for letting some positive input balance the scales a little bit, it certainly helps my own angst regarding this game and the community by a good margin. 😄

Sure, there's problems and balancing issues, but with a game this long in-the-making, it's kind of inevitable. The new Melee system took a bit of time to re-bind my keys to feel nice, but afterwards I'm feeling way more smooth in my shifts between cutting up bad guys and Battacor'ing them when a Gram Prime just doesn't cut it fast enough. It feels like my whole arsenal is actually being used, instead of just sticking to my primary the whole time. The open worlds are amazing, the characters and lore is brilliantly written, and the future holds a lot more exiting stuff with more polished iterations. It's clear they are listening to us. (And with all the controversy surrounding Nightwave, I'm sure Season 2 will be worked on very hard.)

This game is a very fluid thing, full of change, and it's honestly really fun to spend my days adapting to each update. It's amazing to remember how it was when I logged in as a baby excalibur for the first time, and my adventure to a tanky Frost Prime nowadays. It's honestly thrilling when each update drops, however small it may be. 

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I loved the game for thousands of hours until nightwave, haven't been really playing since it's launch, now I'm logging in daily, do the redundant task and log off. Same with the monday reset.

I'm really thinking about quitting the game after 7.5k hours (4.5k mission time) because nightwave leaves an awful taste in my mouth..

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3 hours ago, JackHargreav said:

There are so many negative threads I just had to make this one.

It's called critique and it's what allowed warframe to have all those great changes you speak of.

Nothing moves forward if all you say is praise. Complacency and censoring the critics are slow-killing poisons.

Edit: And then this Jinzanami guy comes in and tries to disprove me with their toxins. Oof.

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2 minutes ago, HugintheCrow said:

It's called critique and it's what allowed warframe to have all those great changes you speak of.

Nothing moves forward if all you say is praise. Complacency and censoring the critics are slow-killing poisons.

There is a great difference between criticism and whining. If you flip out because on ability got nerfed that is just whining. And that happens a lot of times. Stating that the game is straight up garbage because there was a new system put in is also not criticism. Not by my standards at least.

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6 minutes ago, (XB1)Cubic Clem said:

I loved the game for thousands of hours until nightwave, haven't been really playing since it's launch, now I'm logging in daily, do the redundant task and log off. Same with the monday reset.

I'm really thinking about quitting the game after 7.5k hours (4.5k mission time) because nightwave leaves an awful taste in my mouth..

I think that is just because of the mentality that FlusteredFerret wrote. Take the game as a game. Not a job. If I find my self frustrated I just remind myself that it's just a game. It doesn't have any effect on my life (not much at least). Same with Nightwave. I have a weak. I do the task when I feel like it.

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1 hour ago, JackHargreav said:

I can always just adapt to the new "meta" since the game is fun for the most part.

I wish more Tenno shared this mentality, but everyone is different.

Part of the fun for me is finding my own “meta”, you can do so many fun/silly/unique things with builds.

Some Nightwave challeges have been a blessing in disguise for me, like finding all caches in three missions or finding syndicate medallions. I’ve forgotten how neat some of the tilesets actually are because nine times out of ten, everyone wants to get things done and rush to extract.

Melee changes were hard for me to get used to at first, but I adjusted and feel like I’m doing better for it. Feel like it’ll be smoother once 3.0 is rolled out all the way, stance changes and whatnot.

Out of all the negativity I’ve seen in General Discussion lately, which is fine because criticism/feedback is how things are improved, this thread is a breath of fresh air. 

All in all, I’m pretty excited for the future of Warframe considering The New War and Railjack are on the way. 2019 seems kinda hype. Not to mention Equinox Prime Access just began a few days ago? My life is complete, I am that easy to please.

Thanks for sharing!

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15 minutes ago, EquinoxPrime said:

Some Nightwave challeges have been a blessing in disguise for me, like finding all caches in three missions or finding syndicate medallions. I’ve forgotten how neat some of the tilesets actually are because nine times out of ten, everyone wants to get things done and rush to extract.

Y'know? As iffy as the system is (I just want my Umbra Forma...!), this is also true. It reminded me of so many mechanics I just skipped by, like the Halls of Ascension, Syndicate Medallions, and fun of scouring an entire tileset for those glittering cache crates. I even forgot about fishing and conservation once the Orb Mothers reared their bulbous heads. It's nice to remember that all this other stuff exists. It's not just eviscerating hordes of armored clones and expensive robots, there's other fun things Tenno can do, too. 

And the future, with orbiter-size ships we can DRIVE and SHOOT stuff with, taking down capital ships and clearing the skies... and the epic First Arc Finale with The New War... I'm so exited to see what our trips to interplanetary space and the Tau Ceti system brings us. These updates look BIG. Like, bigger than Fortuna. I'm so excited!!

1 hour ago, JackHargreav said:

There is a great difference between criticism and whining. If you flip out because on ability got nerfed that is just whining. And that happens a lot of times. Stating that the game is straight up garbage because there was a new system put in is also not criticism. Not by my standards at least.

Hard, Atlas-solid agree with your philosophy, mate. There's constructive criticism, there's even hard criticism, and then there's just angrily griping about everything en masse. There's so much negativity on the forums these days (though a good chunk of it is grounded in good reason!), it sort of gives me angst and stress about actually engaging here anymore. You're entitled to provide input, but also... the game is free, and gamedev is a really hard thing to do, and needs a lot of people and time to be done right. DE is run by human beings, not some... Cephalon collection that can constantly produce perfect results 100% of the time (though Cephalons have their flaws, too, as endearing as some may be). Have patience, give things a chance, and hey, sometimes after a bumpy start, you can come out of an update way better than when you started. I am a sword-swingin' MACHINE now with Melee 2.9-repeating. It's good to voice displeasure with things, but... being an angry mob is just unproductive, and also just rude. You gotta' keep the scales balanced with positive and negative feedback, and be constructive about it rather than screaming "The game is bad so I'm never playing again bye losers!" over and over. And think about how all that negativity can affect the developers, too. I'm sure they're working hard, and only negative responses to their hard work probably stresses out a lot of the team we never really see. 

Sure, Nightwave has issues, but it's clear it has strong points (no more constantly checking my phone for Niatain!) and a lot of effort went into this system. Plus, it's pretty synergistic when it shines. 😄 I may be easily exited, but the prospect of what the next version may be now that the Devs are WELL aware of the flaws this system has... I'm excited to see when that is released, too!

1 hour ago, JackHargreav said:

I think that is just because of the mentality that FlusteredFerret wrote. Take the game as a game. Not a job. If I find my self frustrated I just remind myself that it's just a game. It doesn't have any effect on my life (not much at least). Same with Nightwave. I have a weak. I do the task when I feel like it.

Another intense agree here. You're coming off as a really nice fellow, Jack! 😄

Games are meant to be a means of unwinding and having fun. Sure, we have fun in different ways, as we all are individuals. But... sometimes you're not really enjoying yourself by being obsessed with metagames and grinding for items until you cry. And sure, you may actually have fun that way, but I, among many others, are super casual. Getting angry over how things may be enjoyed differently or how others can have fun is just counterproductive and rude. Calm down, remember that this is a game played by over a million different people, all with different ideal builds and ways they enjoy the game. Sure, things can be improved upon to appeal to as broad an audience as possible, but that's also very tricky to design and implement. Someone, somewhere, is always going to be as angry as physically possible with every change. (That's just how any update of any system works these days, methinks. "We made it so that this input of keys on our website doesn't make your CPU overheat anymore. Rejoyce!" "How dare you! I needed that heat to stay warm and save on heating! I made a macro for that keybinding! How dare you let me freeze in my own home! Argh!") 

Some of us are casuals, some of us are hardcore, but all of us should try to go with the flow at least a *little* more. Adapt to changes, see things from multiple angles, and voice concern while... not amassing into angry hordes over things that aren't such a huge deal. Fixes will come. New frames, like Wisp and Hydryn, will one day have someone figure out how to metagame them well... and again and again. This game is super-duper fluid and changing, and that's why I love it. I can always come back to it and never feel burnt out.

(And seeing Nightwave not as a list of chores and more like a "Hey, you *can* do this while out doing other things and get some nice stuff" helps me feel less stressed, too. At least for the time being. I have my own qualms about it, but this ain't the place for that, and enough people have made the point already.)

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2 hours ago, HugintheCrow said:

It's called critique

That it is a blatant strawman and you know it. Most of what you're labeling as 'crtitique' is in fact people jumping on the forums and cussing out and bashing the devs without even providing any actionable information. And that's assuming they're even intelligent enough to put it in the correct sub forum.

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2 hours ago, (XB1)Cubic Clem said:

I loved the game for thousands of hours until nightwave, haven't been really playing since it's launch, now I'm logging in daily, do the redundant task and log off. Same with the monday reset.

I'm really thinking about quitting the game after 7.5k hours (4.5k mission time) because nightwave leaves an awful taste in my mouth..

I don't quite understand it. So you're quitting the game because you now have to do things every day? But you wouldn't quit if you had nothing to do? Wha...

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In any establishment customers who complain if dissatisfied intend to return to the establishment. Customers who are silent have no intentions of returning, and customers who praise will always stick around. Whether negative or positive, they are all feedback. HugintheCrow, you will get a lot of opposition just because out of nothing at all, it is the way I realize things work here on these forums, I however agree with you. If a customer is whining/minging/binging/complaining/and the incredible list goes on to demerit their feedback, it is still feedback, and if people are dissatisfied doesn't mean they should be ignored or be quiet like most have implied. 

3 hours ago, HugintheCrow said:

It's called critique and it's what allowed warframe to have all those great changes you speak of.

Nothing moves forward if all you say is praise. Complacency and censoring the critics are slow-killing poisons.

 

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12 minutes ago, -QUILL_PETER- said:

That it is a blatant strawman and you know it.

Nope, but this is:

12 minutes ago, -QUILL_PETER- said:

Most of what you're labeling as 'critique'

 

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They aren't "negative" threads (well, mostly). They're criticisms of development decisions that members of the community don't like, and they're part of the reason that the game is as good as it is. If nobody bothered to complain about any of the stupid crap DE has done over the years, the game would be in a much worse state, if it was still running at all.

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Just now, FlyingDice said:

They aren't "negative" threads (well, mostly). They're criticisms of development decisions that members of the community don't like, and they're part of the reason that the game is as good as it is. If nobody bothered to complain about any of the stupid crap DE has done over the years, the game would be in a much worse state, if it was still running at all.

Look. I stated this before. Criticism is NOT bad. It's needed. It's important. But crying for something like "That one arcane doesn't apply to that one ability" and not providing any valid points against the change is hardly a criticism for example. Also sometimes It doesn't hurt to pet the devs in the back so they don't feel like we are all hostile never satisfyable A-holes. And again I'm not saying that we always should pet them in the back. Give them feedback. But be a little bit more considerate. They also have feelings. 

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17 minutes ago, FlyingDice said:

They aren't "negative" threads (well, mostly). They're criticisms of development decisions that members of the community don't like, and they're part of the reason that the game is as good as it is. If nobody bothered to complain about any of the stupid crap DE has done over the years, the game would be in a much worse state, if it was still running at all.

Yeah. Part of the reason the game is so good, is because people continuously post their "critique" in the general discussion sub-sections of the forum where the devs will never read them and where they are therefore completely ignored. This is indeed what makes the game great: that so much of the so-called critique never actually reaches the devs ears.

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3 hours ago, JackHargreav said:

There are so many negative threads I just had to make this one..

Because most people only ever venture to the forums when they are irritated about something. Sooooooo most of the threads are going to be more on the negative side by proxy. 

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Just now, Oreades said:

Because most people only ever venture to the forums when they are irritated about something. Sooooooo most of the threads are going to be more on the negative side by proxy. 

Well actually you have a point there.

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I think, overall, it's important to keep in mind that the things not being discussed are things the playerbase is probably pretty happy with- at least, that's how I've always operated. I can't go in and say "X is Great!" because if I do, with this game, I'll rapidly find myself writing a ten page paper. That said, I think you're right in that occasionally we  probably do need to tell DE what they're doing right, instead of just laser focusing on the things we don't like. 

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- Forum post about how positive feedback is important, too, and how hostility can be tiresome when it's so prevalent and unbridled.

- Responses outside of a few honest gems are full of angrily providing counterarguments in similar tone (overreacting, belittling, and more...) to the countless posts aside this one.

H'oh boy. In hindsight, should have seen that one coming from a mile away. It's about a balance of input (and also not joining a mob that collapses into an angry horde). Criticism is valued, but what actually is criticism and not... just being angry... that's complicated and nuanced, as the line can be very, very thin. The fact that people are even angry just about... not being angry sometimes is mildly worrying, if not just unsettling to witness. Nothing wrong with feeling the way you feel about things, but also... maybe look at things with a more open mind (and also, maybe after a glass of water and a few deep breaths). Why are y'all arguing over this...? Nothing wrong with trying to spread a little positivity in light of a recent, immense and very angry backlash. If the devs see it or not, at least someone will. I may be a "sensitive wuss" or however you may disregard my thoughts, but... it makes for interacting with this community difficult when you know everything you say will immediately garner some hostile counter-response. 

And, of course, remember that you initially paid nothing to be a part of this experience, that making things this complicated is obscenely difficult, and that these things take a little time. I know if I had hundreds of people responding to everything I do with absolute hatred and "harsh criticism", I'd be a bit upset about it. It may be part of their jobs to handle these things, but I'm sure lightening up and... well, actually letting them know that despite This Thing Being Bad, their efforts are actually appreciated, probably at least helps someone at their desk in DE feel a bit better. (Also, I think they've gotten the point by now with so many threads about Nightwave being disagreeable. No need to beat a dead horse.) Plus, it's just... nice to be nice once in a while. Sure, being angry and vocal gets you seen, but when so many people are being vocal to the point where it bleeds into the realm of... not really needing to be so angry about it, it can really wear people down. Like I've said before: you gotta' balance things. DE ain't flawless, but they do a lot of good stuff, and clearly put effort into what they design. 

... Anyway, it's clear that this is striking a lot of nerves, for... some reason, and this is turning out to be a lot more complicated among a view of many than previously thought. 

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I'm also mostly satisfied with Warframe, though I'll still call out bad design like the Wolf, and the issues with Nightwave not feeling rewarding enough to actually bring myself to want to do it.

Many times people's complaints are at least semi-valid here, other times not so much (still can't figure out what the overall complaint is about Wisp) but still both sides have their right to exist.

Overall its all about finding a balance between criticism and contentment, neither can be to severe as they will cause wild confused change and stagnation respectively.

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Honestly, watching the game evolve and change and grow is a huge part of the reason I keep playing. It's exciting. I love running up a wall, headshotting a few enemies and cutting another three in two with a single strike as much as anyone else (spines are fun to look at!), but having watched this game go from what it used to be to what it is now has been breathtaking.

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3 hours ago, HugintheCrow said:

It's called critique and it's what allowed warframe to have all those great changes you speak of.

Nothing moves forward if all you say is praise. Complacency and censoring the critics are slow-killing poisons.

The other side of that coin being listening to all the negative critiques and changing everything constantly which is by comparison a fast acting poison. Balance in all things and what not. 

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1 minute ago, Aldain said:

I'm also mostly satisfied with Warframe, though I'll still call out bad design like the Wolf, and the issues with Nightwave not feeling rewarding enough to actually bring myself to want to do it.

Many times people's complaints are at least semi-valid here, other times not so much (still can't figure out what the overall complaint is about Wisp) but still both sides have their right to exist.

Overall its all about finding a balance between criticism and contentment, neither can be to severe as they will cause wild confused change and stagnation respectively.

Ppppreee-sicley, my good fellow! (And yeah, Wisp... I'll garner the responses with actual thought once she's actually published. Those buff nodes seem very interesting to play around with! And SUN PORTAL.) Angry responses are important, since people being dissatisfied ain't ever a good thing, but too much and it sort of becomes hard to really pick out the valid critiques from the ones that really aren't worth anyone's time in the sea of vitriol. Plus, so much hostility can scare people off, for a lot of reasons. Positivity is important to let people know that their efforts are valued, as well as... well, that despite the thing sucking, 10% of that thing is actually okay and worth keeping. But too much of that makes things stale and stagnant, and... well, too quiet. Go with the current when possible, and fight the current when it really needs to be (not when you're just getting your feet wet). I've written some pretty extensive reports on the Orb fights, but I made sure to at least note that  parts of Profit-Taker and Exploiter were actually brilliant and worth keeping, as well as noting that things could be better. Things are okay, and the effort that went into them is clear and appreciated, but they could be improved.

This game, this project, is constantly evolving. Things are going to break and be unpleasant. Some things people don't like will probably be around to stay. (I mean, I have a lot of issues with Eidolons in particular, but I may as well buckle up and learn to live with them.) You could argue that's an allegory for life in its entirety, but I'm no life coach. Other things that people rightfully voice complains about (Dammit, Wolf!) are probably going to be changed in a future iteration. 

Just be patience and keep things balanced. For both your mental health as well as the many faces of DE we never see. I'm sure somewhere, there's an office full of notes on Nightwave responses and what the next version of that may be. Many people testing out the new ideas and doing their best to figure out how to make it work. A lot of things people say they may hear, but also realize that it's not going to work. That the update may bring some things we'll need to deal with and adapt to, or just walk around. 

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