Passive Health Regen

[(XBOX)Avant Solace]

We've been in a situation like this before: We're playing with a squishy Warframe (Mag, Nyx, etc) and just got done clearing out a hoard of enemies. You're now low on health and not having any luck getting health orbs; so now you're playing more cautiously. Everything is going fine until a stray Toxin or Slash proc hits you. Your health counts down: 10, 4, 2, DEAD. If only you had on a Rejuvenation aura.

Spoiler

Really it doesn't make sense as to why Warframes can't just naturally regenerate health. They're Infested super-humans crammed full of mythologically advanced technology. The fact they can't heal the occasional scrape or ding without outside aid is baffling.

Ideally Warframes should be able to heal themselves at the tiniest of increments. Not enough to actively heal a good chunk of health between fights, but just enough that the occasional flesh wound will patch itself up after a minute or two. Like (+1 hp / 2 sec) or something.

Thoughts?

EDIT: I've been seeing a lot of comments saying it will "make the game too easy". I'm just gonna throw down some math to offset these argument.

The average Warframe has 300 health at rank 30 with no supplemental mods. If they were given health regen of 1hp per 2 seconds, it would take ~10 minutes to fully regenerate their health from near death. I personally cannot think of any situation in which a player would be on the defensive for 10 solid minutes without health orbs dropping. The focus of this entire argument is that small amounts of chip damage should not spell death.

Edited April 9, 2019 by (XB1)alchemPyro

[(XBOX)GearsMatrix301]

There are a handful of weapons that heal, health pads, healing frames, and a sentinel mod. We don’t need to give every Warframe passive healing.

[CoreXCZ]

No. -1

[(PSN)wintersfrozen]

There is plenty of gear to up your health or regen it mid mission. If you don't want to customize your builds and play style for your heath then just add a heath restore to your gear wheel and drop it when you need it.

Passive health regen on all frames makes healing frames a sort of mute point.

[(XBOX)Avant Solace]

1 minute ago, (XB1)GearsMatrix301 said:

There are a handful of weapons that heal, health pads, healing frames, and a sentinel mod. We don’t need to give every Warframe passive healing.

Fair point, but that's just a band-aid solution (pun not intended). Players Shouldn't need to modify their builds just to handle the occasional scuff or toxin. Really this is more for people who are early/mid-game. By late game nearly everyone has the capacity to heal themselves within seconds via arcanes and whatnot.

[Zelmen]

Just now, (XB1)alchemPyro said:

via arcanes and whatnot

ugh... They need to make swapping arcanes easier like they did for focus trees. Why can't we have loadouts for Operators that can be selected rather than focus trees in the arsenal.

[Ikusi_Prime]

From a frustration standpoint, I agree, there isn't a lot of ways to regenerate health if you aren't a frame that has self-healing and you aren't late enough in the game to have access to mods like Life Strike, Healing Return, Medi-Ray, etc., to keep you topped off. Not every frame has the right polarization for Rejuvenation in their aura slot and in most situations Corossive Projection is just better. A very slow, out of combat heal would be a nice QoL improvement for early game players without really impacting late game so much. I'm thinking along the lines of like, 1 health every 2 seconds if you haven't taken damage in the last 3 seconds. It's not going to sustain you through a fight or even between fights, but it helps keep you out of the red and is better than  nothing when you have no other way to heal. 

[(NSW)Agent-10]

24 minutes ago, (XB1)GearsMatrix301 said:

There are a handful of weapons that heal, health pads, healing frames, and a sentinel mod. We don’t need to give every Warframe passive healing.

Those things not being so easily accessible in the early game.

Just a passive heal rate of three at max would help solve the times where one can just be bled out by numerous slash or toxin procs.

[Birdframe_Prime]

Honestly, my friend, the fact that Health doesn't regen is actually kind of the point.

It literally forces you to grind up the answers to that. There are simple gear items that you build in batches of 10 and the blueprints are available just for getting the right rank in the Syndicates. There are Warframes with Abilities that either directly restore health, or generate health orbs. Then there are Arcanes that can do the healing for you under situations. And finally you even have Focus, where you can literally spec your player character into a healer that can make your frame temporarily invincible while it heals up 75% of their max health.

It's pretty much the only form of progression that sticks. You have nothing early game, you only get health gear from mission rewards. But then as you go, you get more and more resources, access to the gear, access to the frames, and then access to the arcanes and finally the full Focus schools.

You worry about health in the early game, you never notice it in the late game. That's, as I pointed out, kind of the point.

[CoreXCZ]

48 minutes ago, (XB1)alchemPyro said:

Fair point, but that's just a band-aid solution (pun not intended). Players Shouldn't need to modify their builds just to handle the occasional scuff or toxin. Really this is more for people who are early/mid-game. By late game nearly everyone has the capacity to heal themselves within seconds via arcanes and whatnot.

And why players should be freed from need to modify their builds? We already have to modify our builds to make abilities stronger, make frame more tanky. Mods are meant to compensate our weaknesses as well, it's just up to each individual if he/she will take advantage of it or not. Modifying our build is important part of game, you will either do it or you will suck. It's interesting you're mentioning Mag and Nyx, two frames which are literally avoided by most players today.

Aura's are most of the time used just to get more mod capacity, just sometimes they become important and there's a need to have a specific one (Corrosive Projection, etc.). That's a sad truth I realized long time ago.

 

Edited April 8, 2019 by CoreXCZ

[(NSW)Agent-10]

Mag and Nyx being mentioned and avoided very likely because of how susceptible they are to status damage than say a Rhino who becomes immune to the sort.

I really like what they do, but they are way too squishy for how the game works IMO. Having lots of shields don't do much good if it offers no damage resistance with something like Grineer slash procs eating away at the smaller health pool a lot in Mars. That was always a pain.

It may not be an issue on PC, but it's not so easy to find public games on the Switch. There will be times that you'd have to go solo into a mission only to have the problems that the OP described occur. A passive health regen, even if it's minor, can allow better breathing room for the early game while not breaking anything of the late IMO. Health orbs are just too rare to be relied on as much as the mods and gear that can help heal the player is obtained much later in the game or at a hefty cost.

[(XBOX)GearsMatrix301]

Oh yeah, forgot the big one. The Rejuvenation Aura exists.

[SanicTheGreat]

Well, putting passive regens will make the players (especially the new ones) think that this game is so easy. May be hard for others, yes, but that's the fun part of it.

 

Back in the old warframe days, players only have 4 revives per day. It made us think (or maybe it was just me) to play better or to get gud. So we had no choice but to leave no bleeding out players behind.

Edited April 9, 2019 by SanicTheGreat
I suck at english dang

[Teridax68]

I think a lot of people seem to be missing the point that all these mods, gear items, frame powers, weapons, arcanes, etc. are not immediately available to newer players, who are affected the hardest by a lack of baseline health regeneration. It's all very nice to talk down from one's MR 27 pedestal to all other players and tell them to get good or whatever, but the reality of the situation is that Warframe is a game where the player's health gets easily damaged, whether due to excessive enemy damage and numbers or Toxin/Slash procs from attacks that are difficult or impossible to dodge, but where the player is not innately given adequate tools to recover their health: health orbs are extremely rare and weak, whereas all the options need to be obtained first. It's even worse for newer players who haven't done much multiplayer yet, because whereas in groups there's at least the option to revive downed allies, running out of health in solo play means death (and enough deaths means failure, which is going to be more common for players still familiarizing themselves with the game). The current state of the game is dysfunctional in this respect and all the more discouraging to newer players: as such, it would be to the game's benefit if it added at least some small amount of regenerating health for the sake of newer players, even if this regen does nothing for veterans in environments full of bursty enemy damage. To ask the player to grind up to a point where they are no longer dysfunctional is not only silly in itself, but a massive gamble given that many new players simply do not go that far into the game when the new player experience is so poor already.

Moreover, the very fact that there are so many options to self-heal I think also suggests a degree of band-aiding: considering how it's not all that uncommon for players to equip at least one self-healing option, e.g. Healing Return, Medi-Ray, Magus Repair, etc., this suggests that there is in fact a degree of compensation for a mechanic that is lacking, and could benefit everyone. The fact that the most popular frames right now are either massive nukers (who can kill everything before they can take damage), or tanks who typically have tons of self-healing (e.g. Inaros), this itself suggests an overall metagame that doesn't really seem to favor frames that can't take care of themselves, besides maybe Chroma, who becomes good only in missions where players are almost certainly advanced enough to have access to healing tools. For all the posturing about the plethora of options at our disposal, it may in fact be beneficial to diversity, not detrimental to it, if we eased some of that pressure for sustain by giving frames innate health regen.

Lastly, I think there is a degree of hypocrisy here to condemn health regen when shields regenerate, and nobody seems to take issue with them: over time, the differences between health and shields have eroded, because shields get destroyed far too quickly, and have in turn made our health the part of our life bar that often gets exposed the most often in proper combat (unless you're a squishy frame, in which case you're likely getting downed even with shields up). Arguing that shields and health have meaningfully different gameplay roles in the game's current state has no bearing on reality, as evidenced by the meta of health-based tank frames, and by the largely failed experiment that was Hildryn, the game's only shield-based tank frame, who also happens to be the least-suited for late-game content. As such, not only would I personally advocate to give frames health regen in pretty much the same amounts as shield regen, I'd say remove shields entirely, and maybe even armor, and instead give us pure health bars that regenerate out of combat, with overshield effects still granting non-regenerating bonus health or the like.

[(XBOX)Avant Solace]

8 hours ago, (XB1)GearsMatrix301 said:

Oh yeah, forgot the big one. The Rejuvenation Aura exists.

"You want to heal back the occasional Slash or Toxin proc?"

"Yes?"

"Then slap on this Aura mod. You'll likely need to use a Forma and you won't be able to use any other Auras."

"But... My build needs a different Aura."

"Don't worry. Its for the sake of build diversity!"

Forcing people to shoehorn in equipment just to offset the occasional chip damage is the enemy of build diversity.

[Guest]

You know, I would be supportive if you talked about passive energy regen ... with the total and complete wipe out of Energy Pads, Energy Orbs and Arcane Energize. Yes, to use the classic mana regen bar so there is no more infinite channeling either.

I wouldn't mind a health regen even if it meant taking out health pads and Arcane Grace.

[LuckyCharm]

I feel like there should be a little base hp regen on frames, but it should be turned off when effected by slash or toxin. Alternatively A fast hp regen would be good for out of combat regeneration. (assuming you can stay out of combat long enough) 

Just a little thing that lets you take a breather and heal up a little mid mission while not actively engaged with fighting enemies. Its usually during fights with enemies that you die and should mainly be from enemies and hazards. Not getting 1shot from 50hp because opening a bunch of crates didnt yeild a healing orb.  

(i know that theres plates and healing frames but most of those are best suitied for in combat heals) 

[(PSN)jamdjedi]

No as other have stated there are many weapons with a heal to them as are mods. -1

[(XBOX)GearsMatrix301]

2 hours ago, (XB1)alchemPyro said:

"You want to heal back the occasional Slash or Toxin proc?"

"Yes?"

"Then slap on this Aura mod. You'll likely need to use a Forma and you won't be able to use any other Auras."

"But... My build needs a different Aura."

"Don't worry. Its for the sake of build diversity!"

Forcing people to shoehorn in equipment just to offset the occasional chip damage is the enemy of build diversity.

The reason you’re asking for passive health regen is for new players. Where the majority pick Excalibur. Who doesn’t have a aura polarity.

There’s also health orbs.

Edited April 9, 2019 by (XB1)GearsMatrix301

[Verytis]

Some form of healing is often essential for nearly everything besides short duration missions. Healing has become part of the general player's kit and we often take it for granted. 

Turning it into an actual part of the standard package for all frames would help new players. It'd also make squishy frames slightly better, but only up to around mid levels.

The difference between frames with dmg reduction abilities, and those without, is massive when we look at things that run around with 90% dmg reduction if not outright ignore it. One can jump around while the other sits behind cover to avoid getting shot down in seconds.

Overall I'm in favor of the idea.

Edited April 9, 2019 by Verytis

[Cibyllae]

4 hours ago, Teridax68 said:

-snip-

if we dealt with it back then, they can deal with it now.

[Teridax68]

2 minutes ago, Cibyllae said:

if we dealt with it back then, they can deal with it now.

"If I had to suffer, everyone else has to suffer too!"

[Cibyllae]

5 minutes ago, Teridax68 said:

"If I had to suffer, everyone else has to suffer too!"

exactly, it breeds better players, which means less complaining about non-issues on forums. Less clutter, and more focus on threads that actually matter.

 

edit: Do you think Sekiro needs an easy mode?

Edited April 9, 2019 by Cibyllae

[Teridax68]

1 minute ago, Cibyllae said:

exactly, it breeds better players, which means less complaining about non-issues on forums. Less clutter, and more focus on threads that actually matter.

Or, alternatively, it makes for a worse game, loses players that could otherwise have become positive members of the community, and leaves an inherent dysfunction that constantly has to be papered over, itself lowering build diversity. The hypothesis that lack of health regen has only allowed some higher breed of player to become part of the game and its community is directly disproven by you.

[Loza03]

18 hours ago, (NSW)Agent-10 said:

Those things not being so easily accessible in the early game.

Just a passive heal rate of three at max would help solve the times where one can just be bled out by numerous slash or toxin procs.

Power Progression.

You start out weak and get access to more healing options as you progress, a significant power-up.