Are people actually okay with Garuda?

[MixtheBlender]

The change to her #4 is the single most disappointing alteration to her. Some people may like it, but not me. The cool whirling blades ability is gone forever. I didn't even get to try it. People say her new #4 is used to take on high level enemies with slash, but in reality she lacks good defense option to let her safely charge her ult. I often have to get bullet spray in the face to use it (same problem with Hydroid btw). Her #3 healing is so weak she can't save anyone not even herself. Her 1 is just a poor front shield where as frames with good defense ability like Nezha's warding halo gives 360 degree protection. Let's not lie to ourselves, how many actually use her in sortie? I have plenty fingers left if you want me to count how many I actually saw.

Edited April 8, 2019 by MixtheBlender

[kyori]

Ya she is not ok for high level. It require good skill to play her solo in high level. Of course there won't be problem playing high level in squad because there are always others to revive Garuda. lol

Her design look is one of the better ones but her abilities.... meh.

[GinKenshin]

6 minutes ago, MixtheBlender said:

Some people may like it, but not me.

I don’t see why that’s an issue for this frame....

 

the 4th charges faster if you use casting speed mods, and you can cast it in safe spots in the map since it gets through walls. Personally I use it as a low-mid lvl cleaner, especially in defense. With her dmg buff passive, it does work 

 

you mean her 2nd, and if you find it weak then cast it on multiple enemies that are close, the healing stacks iirc. The healing is affected by strength too iirc 

 

the shield is meant to soak and then dish damage, it’s not entirely for protection. If it soaks dmg in 360 then it’s just broken 

 

when did seeing frames in sortie mean they’re good or not seeing them mean they’re bad? 

 

Youre either not using her right and shes just not your kinda frame. Either way it’s on you, and you’re measurements are just silly 

[Gabbynaru]

11 minutes ago, MixtheBlender said:

The change to her #4 is the single most disappointing alteration to her. Some people may like it, but not me. The cool whirling blades ability is gone forever. I didn't even get to try it.

Thank you! See, people thought I was crazy when I said the blender was better, but no, the community decided to ruin her before even giving her a try. So now she just sits in my arsenal collecting dust. Instead of having a cool murder machine, like she was advertised to us, she was shipped with some pathetic buff "ultimate" that is only useful in very specific situations, instead of having something that's useful everywhere. Shame. She looked like a great replacement for Mirage pre-release, but she shipped in a state that that I can only describe as existence for existence's sake. She exists. Great, what can she do? Single target killing? Mirage it is then!

#BringBackTheBlender

[(XBOX)Knight Raime]

I do.  Her swirling blades looked cool but it was just a boring damage ability like Revenant's.  I'm not fond of damage ults.  I like having utility/effects that go along side damage.  Yes her current ult is visually boring.  But the fact that she can force slash procs for everyone is the amazing aspect of it.  I never have struggled to set up her in end game content.  Though I will admit if you're trying to be the main damage dealer via forced slash procs and dunking with blood ball it gets tedious.

Really, I just don't think her old ultimate really complimented her kit.  It just felt like a stand alone ability.  Her current ult fits right in with her kit.  Garuda's real problem is that she just doesn't fit anywhere.  She's just a cool idea frame.  You're better off picking any other frame if you're looking for support.  And it's honestly so easy to have insane damage by yourself these days that the concept of forcing slash procs isn't as required in gameplay.  Individual power would have to be scaled back for her to be someone you would go to for a team pick.  (something i'm all for.)  That being said her old 4 doesn't solve her current problem.  So bringing it back doesn't help Garuda.  So I can't agree with asking for it back.

[NinjaZeku]

Yeah, I kinda have a hard time finding a reason (other than novelty) to use Garuda over other Frames.

But, this one point here I found very strange indeed:

28 minutes ago, MixtheBlender said:

Her #3 healing is so weak she can't save anyone not even herself.

The most common build suggestion I've seen for Garuda is to get Strength (at least close) to 200%, for the Slash proc boost on her 4.

With such a build, you'd be healing ~50% of your max Health every second, from just one Blood Altar, of potentially three.

As a frequent perma-Squad-Renewal Oberon user, and with my go-to build providing "only" 60 Health per second,
that 50% (if not 150%) seems incredible, not least considering my Oberon / buffed Squad has been doing just fine in e.g. Sorties.

Basically, my point is, her healing strength is kind of the last point of attack I would've chosen 😛

Or, maybe I misunderstood you and you were talking about how the small-ish healing range isn't exactly amazing,
because now that I'll certainly agree with, DE seems to have a real fear of being overly generous in that regard
(aaaah Blessing and Renewal having infinite range, those were the days lol).

[(XBOX)GearsMatrix301]

She’s the best frame that came out of 2018.

[(XBOX)WafflyLearner89]

in all honestly, I think her main problem is her passive. when you get to high levels, you DO NOT want to be low on health while attacking. No amount of damage is worth staying at low health.

I think she should have a new passive that I would call "Blood maiden" 

Spoiler

Garuda takes damage from enemies (including status effects) and converts it into bonus damage and ability strength. Max bonus is 400%. Not affected by being healed.

I have a few options on how the passive would work:

Option 1 would have Garuda needing to take a large amount of damage to rank up bonus damage and ability strength. Rank 1 would be 100%, rank 2 would be 200%, rank 3 would be 300% and rank 4 would be 400%. Rank up would be permanent. This set up could make it that her passive makes her as strong as her enemies. On earth, her passive would be non existent but in the void levels her passive would rank up to max within a few seconds due to the large damage output.

Option 2 would have Garuda take damage that increases her bonus damage and strength at either a fast or slow rate but would decay overtime, forcing her to stay in the fight to keep her passive up. Not sure what the specific numbers would be, but would need to be enough that max bonus could be used for a bit outside of the fight, but not to the point where it can last for a minute without taking damage.

other than that and some minor animation adjustments, she would be great (though would be nice if her talons could have her own stance but that just MY opinion.....)

[(PSN)Hopper_Orouk]

it's ok, i thought i'd see someone who would be on the opposite side of the conversation

the reason her ult was changed was because it looked dull and lazy and too much like revenant's 4 

second, the warframe is not for everybody...she's exactly like banshee a high risk high reward warframe that requires a lot of movement to survive, but unlike banshee she has a bit of defense in her kit, now how many people use banshee or banshee prime? very few even though she's one of the best damage dealing and support warframes

i love garuda because she's a self sustaining warframe, very capable on high levles, yes she requires a lot set ups and synergies, but it's very rewarding, she's also one of the few warframe who makes every weapon viable and deadly 

 

tbh she's the best new warframe released in 2018 

Edited April 8, 2019 by (PS4)theHOPPER243

[GPrime96]

I’m one of those Players who use her in every Sortie and even higher in the Void (lvl 150+ Mot - 280 Ani is the highest i’ve reached there). The reason i mostly use her in the Void because 1. I love that Tileset the most for Survivals and 2. Grineer is a big Weakness for Garuda. The Weakness is not Armor because her damage can scale so high, lvl 270 Corrupted Heavy Gunners can bleed out in one hit while they are still affected by her 4, it’s how Grineer ignore her Shield with Enemies like Napalms, Hyeeka Masters, and Scorches. Bombards, Nullifiers, Different Crewmans, those kinds of enemies can’t ignore her Shield which makes her useful in the Void even though the enemies there are stronger than normal. One of the things i love about her is how i can play her as a DPS Frame with all of her Abilities used or a Healer/Support with her 2 and 4 for the Squad, Operatives, Crew Memebers in Defection, Pets, and other Allies like that while keeping Energy up with her 3 + 2.

But, the thing she focus a lot on is being a heavy Caster. She actually don’t need Weapons to kill enemies since her 1 and 4 does the killing and her 2 + 3 does the Sustaining while her 1 block the Damage from the enemies (although it does require you to be more careful with it.) while being directional with your LOS. She got a Option to make the damage from your Weapons turn into Slash with her 4 though so she don’t have to be full caster which means she can be versatile if you know how to play her that way. She’s not as easy to use as, lets say, the Meta Frames.

Edit: Forgot to say this about Garuda, her 4 affects Ally’s Damage too and her 1 can be casted on Invincible Bosses. The damage for her one also gets gained from the cast too.

Edited April 8, 2019 by GPrime96

[Yousho]

Haven't the past 3-4 frames been basically just bad at content beyond the starchart? 
They're all cool concepts, I just wish they were better. 

[Xepthrichros]

1 hour ago, Yousho said:

Haven't the past 3-4 frames been basically just bad at content beyond the starchart? 
They're all cool concepts, I just wish they were better. 

Partly because these days the community hates on any idea with potential to be efficient at elite sanctuary onslaught, or is able to participate in 3x3 tridolon meta

[YazMatazO]

Actually, Garuda possesses one of the most fun and balanced designs in the game. DE should have been going with that from the beginning. 

She takes some imagination and skill, but can be quite reliable, even later in the game. Her healing is more potent the lower health you have, and you have up to 3 totems. With umbral set, Adaptation, and Arcane Guardian she isn't too squishy, but you have to manage damage stacks at the same time, if you don't want to get one shot. Her mirror is good, and it can also dish a lot of dmg, without it becoming a crazy room wipe. 

Too bad they only started doing frames like her so late. 

[Guest]

I use her as a hard support built around her 4, with 2 and 3 to keep my energy up. She works fine for almost all content up to Sortie that way but I need a DPS buddy. Never liked the damage portion of her 1 so I tend to ignore it.

That being said, although some people love Garuda a lot, I personally have no love for her and find her clunky. I am not the kind of guy who can appreciate her playstyle if one wants to get the most out of her. You may say she is like Banshee, but no, Banshee can hide behind crates to pop out and shoot. Garuda cannot if you want her to DPS.

[000l000]

Her kit isn't bad but DE should get rid of channeled powers, it's clunky as hell especially with a controller or on console. Her 4 should be cast at full power instantly and throwing the [1] dread heart is painfully slow. A clunky channeled impact only and not much precise attack with such a complicated mechanics isn't working fine.

Garuda is a fast frame and should definitely have a smooth gameplay, every power should be usable on the run and not on a static state, spending hours to channel.

It's more a convenient QoL than real balance issues though, such mechanics kill all the fun in the long run but her whole kit works really fine. She doesn't have survivability issues either if properly modded and geared. Even her 4th doesn't need much power strength since she can rely upon the slash proc effect more than its raw damages - With the right weapon it can deal huge damages to highly resilient opponents !

Edited April 9, 2019 by 000l000

[Xepthrichros]

The damage buff from her passive could use a slight buff. Instead of increasing damage in direct proportion to her missing health, and losing the buff benefits immediately once health is restored, the boosted damage buff should linger a bit, maybe for 10 seconds. So that she can take advantage of it more without having to cower into cover or hang around her healing altars, and so allowing a bit more aggressive gameplay.  

[(PSN)RazorPhoenix970]

Not every frame has to suit everyone's tastes or expectations. I hated the blender, it was the most unimaginative idea I'd ever seen. Seeking Talons on the other hand is a concept never seen before and ties well with her theme, BLOOD.

The most common cry I see pertaining to Garuda is "there's no reason to pick her", to which I say "you pick her because you want to not because you have to." She is loads of fun to play if you enjoy a more active "jump around all over the place" style. It's all a matter of personal preference and whether her playstyle and kit appeals to you the player.

If she struggles surviving at higher levels that's fine, there are other frames who can do that. If you feel her higher level damage setup is too slow and gets you killed, there are things called walls and jumping otherwise pick another frame who can brazenly run and gun (or cast) through hordes of enemies. It's the choice you have, no one is forcing you to like Garuda or even main her.

Her 1 is firstly a damage battery, a bomb secondly and lastly a protective shield. I used to compare it to Volt's shield until I realised their differing purposes and design intentions. Her 2 isn't a be-all-end-all heal ability, it requires assessing the damage output of the enemy and appropriate altar stacking so that you lessen your chances of dying.

 

[Teridax68]

I don't think Garuda's perfect, per se, but she's coherent, functional, and quite fun to play, which is more than can be said for quite a few other frames. Personally, I think there may also be a question of lowered standards, given that the last few frames that got released have all disappointed in some way (Khora and Revenant are confused messes, and Baruuk woefully underdelivers on a gameplay fantasy that may be impossible to achieve). I also think it was great that they scrapped her old 4, because it looked like Danse Macabre 2.0., and I'd rather keep the number of abilities that disable most of the player's actions to a minimum.

With that said, I do have a few criticisms of her current state:

• Dread Mirror is overloaded, whereas Bloodletting does comparatively little. Garuda's 1 is by far the most complicated 1 ability out of any warframe's, and would still be even if it limited itself to a dash + kill + directional shield combo, let alone its blood orb. It feels kind of clunky to charge the orb after activating the shield, and in this respect I feel Bloodletting would likely work better if it drained Garuda's health directly to throw out balls of blood.
• Dread Mirror's lack of baseline damage is weird. The initial strike should deal damage equal to one strike of her Talons, in addition to its instant kill threshold.
• Garuda's Talons are boring, uninspired weapons that don't really do anything for her except add flavor. It'd be nice to have some sort of unique gameplay effect to tie it into her kit, even if the weapon itself need not be spectacular.
• No ability should make an enemy invulnerable, and Blood Altar is no exception. If the target takes damage, they should simply release more blood for faster healing (which would turn it fully into Trinity's 1, but then virtually nobody uses Trinity's 1 anyway).

So not the biggest complaints in the world, I just think there's a tiny bit of clunkiness that could be addressed, plus her innate weapon is a bit disappointing at the moment. Other than that, as far as frames go, she's pretty decent I'd say.

[Birdframe_Prime]

14 hours ago, MixtheBlender said:

The cool whirling blades ability is gone forever.

And here is kind of your issue.

The ability looked cool, but was just another 'press 4 and steer animation around', and that doesn't make for a good ability. Danse Macabre is like that and it's one of the most boring 4th abilities for its results, and yes that is counting the fact that it has adaptive damage types and also has the option to cast Reave for more mobility.

Then you have Hildryn's 4th, which is another 'press and steer animation', the only difference is that it's a base CC ability instead of damage, and you can cast her 1 while you do it instead.

And now they're even giving us the same thing with Wisp, her 4th is just an aimed version of 'press and steer animation' with the option of better damage if you don't nuke the target immediately.

These are not functional designs. They look cool, but they are pretty much cop-outs on the design front, since they are even less interactive than basic running around and shooting, they're completely based around the visuals, not on actually making the Warframe better as a whole. At least with Garuda, her 4 is a priming tool that has not only a massive scaling damage buff to herself and allies, it also then creates a direct interaction with her 1 if you mod for it (at 201% Strength you guarantee that her blood ball triggers that Bleed proc, and the ability then becomes incredibly powerful).

But let's be short about this:

14 hours ago, MixtheBlender said:

Let's not lie to ourselves, how many actually use her in sortie? I have plenty fingers left if you want me to count how many I actually saw.

First, anecdotal evidence is useless, your personal experience is inherently biased and the people you're playing with / public with may choose to play differently the very next game.

Second, the people that are actually using her don't take her to Sortie because they're the ones in the multi-hour Survivals actually enjoying the scaling power she has, not trying to complete little bitty ten/twenty minute runs of level 100 or so. Despite the difficulty level of the enemies, even Sorties are bite-size play, and if that's what you're judging Garuda on... you're not going to enjoy her as much because that's not where she shines.

It's like saying 'I'm trying to farm Captures and Frost sucks, his kit is useless and I never see other Frosts on Capture missions so that backs up my point' or 'I'm trying to complete a load of Infested missions, and Zephyr's kit is practically useless against the Infested, she sucks at it and I never see Zephyr players in Infested Defense missions, so that backs up my point'.

Frames are not all good at the same thing, and they are allowed to be bad at other things. Garuda has a very powerful kit as she is, and that kit is not always applicable to everything you're trying to slot her into. That is why we have other frames that are particularly good at those other things instead.

[auxy]

I use Garuda in sorties. Pop dread mirror and go to town with the Imperator Vandal. It's a blast.

With that said, I almost never use her 4.

Frames having a less-useful ability or 2 isn't that unusual. Do people get a lot of use out of Trinity's 1? Chroma's 1 (or 4?)
What about Mesa's 1? Hydroid's 2? Excal's 3? Gara's 3? Valkyr's 3? Nekros' 1? Zephyr's 2?

I'm not saying these powers are useless. Garuda's 4 isn't useless.
My point is that having a weak or underpowered ability, even if it's the frame's 4th ability, doesn't "ruin" the frame.

Garuda's base stats are underappreciated I feel.
Did you know she has 300 base armor? This puts her below only Valkyr, Atlas, and Chroma.
She also has 270 energy, which puts her behind only Baruuk, and the prime versions of Saryn, Chroma, and Volt.

Her passive ability synergizes nicely with her third ability, which in turn means she has effectively unlimited energy thanks to her second ability.
Her first ability is one of the only things in the game that can no-sell attacks with no real limitations beyond duration.

Her 4th ability... eh. It's never going to kill things as fast as I can with my weapons, so I don't see why I'd bother.
Do I wish she had a better 4th ability? Sure. I also wish Hildryn didn't look so silly while using her 4th ability.
Or that Trinity's 1 wasn't so redundant. Or that ... you get the idea.

[Cibyllae]

You're actually just wrong. Why? Because you don't know how slash procs work. How do slash procs work? First off, they scale with crit. What does that mean? It means if you hit for 100 dmg, your bleed proc does 35 damage. If you crit and do 200 dmg, your bleed proc does 70 dmg. Okay, let that sink in for a second. Not only do slash procs scale with crit, they ignore armor.

So no, her other ult was not in any way better or was going to be better. You would have spun around for 5 missions and been bored of the frame and gone back to frames that were actually affective. Please stop trying to take what little frames that are affective against high level content we have. 

Edited April 9, 2019 by Cibyllae

[BallisticSalsa]

Her 4 is incredible.

It goes through most of the environment causes auto slash procs regardless of weapon and is another large CC in her arsenal of small scale ones.

Slash procs are done of of every damage source meaning even ember can make someone bleed.

So yes she is one of my favorite frames in many many ways.

[Chaemyerelis]

She's actually very good imo, its just that she requires alot of quick thinking input from the player vs these other op frames that don't require much thought. Hence the term "set and forget" skills.

With that said she could still use some small buffs to her abilities. For example not requiring 200 str for the bleed, maybe morehp from her 2 or a wider shield  from her 1.

Edited April 9, 2019 by Chaemyerelis

[Hellmaker2004]

Her Number one skill scale with enemie damage and health, it also oneshot any foes under 40% Health with some restrictions, mostly because they are immune to Warframe abilitys.

You can also use her four in combination with a Saryn on the team, since Garudas four will shoot trough walls.
Spore will deal damage, every tick of spore will add a bleed slash. Bleed deals true damage and stacks, meaning it ignore all armor, armor types and shields. This heavily implies that the bleeding proc will be on the high end of probability to kill, and the spore will not. If a target with spore is killed by anything other than the spore, the spore is spread. Win win for everyone.

 

Her fourth skill is a tool not supposed to do the murder itself, but set enemies up for other tricks / tools, if all you are doing is using her four and then feel dissapointed by the result then that is on you. Use it together with teamates AoE, or your own AoE. A pro tip is that If you use her fourth skill, then her first skill you can deal massive amount of damage in a average area that ignore line of sight. Garudas main problem is not that she is bad, but that she is wasted on lower level content.

My only complaint at this moment, would be the dread mirror not being far away enough or programed to block foe with AoE attacks, sure it will decrease the damage you take, but at to high level content that wont matter.

[NinjaZeku]

3 hours ago, Chaemyerelis said:

requiring 200 str for the bleed

I mean, you don't actually *need* a 100% Bleed chance, this is not a Slash Shotgun type situation, a bit under 100% will do just fine.

Like, many swear by using Hunter Munitions on weapons that don't even reach 100% Crit Chance,
so you have a less than 30% chance to proc Bleed and yet that's apparently fine,
but for some reason, on Garuda, it's all or nothing from pretty much everyone talking about her 4, it's ... quite baffling.

3 hours ago, Chaemyerelis said:

maybe morehp from her 2

Sorry but, again with that? How much Health per second do you need?

If anything, something that helps reduce / avoid damage besides her indeed somewhat meager frontal shield would be nice,
maybe [warning, random idea that's probably terrible incoming] something like ...

Casting the Dread Mirror projectile into a Blood Altar zone will charge up that zone
and now provide damage reduction of ... let's say 75%, with this effect lasting until
(75% of) enemy damage has used up all the projectile damage (or BA runs out).

It's no full substitute for a "proper" defensive ability like Snow Globe for protecting objectives,
and it's of limited use in more mobile mission types, but I think something like this would be a useful addition to her kit.