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MixtheBlender

Are people actually okay with Garuda?

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Yeah, I kinda have a hard time finding a reason (other than novelty) to use Garuda over other Frames.

hard to argue with this cause its 100% truth. 

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My only problem with her is how her 4th is not an instant AoE ability... Constantly pressing 4 and waiting for the circle to widen is SO annoying... And it's only the direction you're facing. 

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I don't see how Garuda is bad.

She has Damage Reduction via her Shield, she can generate energy, she can generate health and she can generate slash procs.

What more do you want?

 

 

 

note: I didn't read any comment in this thread lol

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i like garuda and her kit a lot.  I enjoyed leveling the frame but I don't play her because I don't want to invest too much into a non prime frame at this point.

i imagine quite a few players are like me.  spending 6 forma on a frame and then doing the same on the prime variant isn't appealing anymore after having done it so much.  so most new frames are sitting in my arsenal waiting for primes. the available prime frames in the game can handle all content so waiting isn't an issue .

I feel like for all who have gone my route,  it results in misrepresentation of how good or popular a frame is.  the new frames aren't bad,  we're just not using them to save forma.

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5 hours ago, TaylorsContraction said:

i like garuda and her kit a lot.  I enjoyed leveling the frame but I don't play her because I don't want to invest too much into a non prime frame at this point.

i imagine quite a few players are like me.  spending 6 forma on a frame and then doing the same on the prime variant isn't appealing anymore after having done it so much.  so most new frames are sitting in my arsenal waiting for primes. the available prime frames in the game can handle all content so waiting isn't an issue .

I feel like for all who have gone my route,  it results in misrepresentation of how good or popular a frame is.  the new frames aren't bad,  we're just not using them to save forma.

I can kinda see it if a frame has been out for a while but honestly, is it that much of a hassle to forma a frame a bunch when their prime wont happen for almost 2 years. Even much more recent frames wont get a prime for another year at best.

I understand umbral forma more in its current state, while i personally put my in the moment enjoyment more than the hassle later down the line since by the time most frames i like now get a prime ill have 3 umbral forma ready, its too limited for people to want to spend willy nilly.

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1. All frames can be built tanky with the synth set/health conversion synergy, adaptation, arcane guardian and magus repair now. Tanky frames can be made insanely tanky.

2. All frames are sortie viable, even on tougher enhanced damage sorties, for players with even middling parkour skills and map awareness who are team players. Wish people would stop with this particular "benchmark."

3. Khora was the best frame released in 2018, not Garuda. Gas CC/SC stat stick + 2 +1 or just 1 alone is ridiculous and scales way up with the augment. Then there's the massive crowd control on Khora from the 2 and 4 and the option to build her for a very high DPS loot farmer compared to Nekros and Hydroid. Opinions are opinions, but this one is probably an objective fact. Buffed Khora is the strongest, most versatile and utility-rich frame released since Gara by a mile. Fun factor is subjective, but would wager more players find Khora has a much higher fun factor than Garuda to boot. Spending the time to build out a Khora was a no-brainer, not bothering with Garuda for the time being. Haven't fully built out a Baruuk or Hildryn yet, but not real excited about those and Garuda is still a distance behind either.

4. To the actual topic, haven't played much Garuda, but in a game with so many frames and builds that can scale up to lvl 200 mobs that kill very fast and buff damage directly, what is the point in extra slash procs in an ult? Can't think of a situation when a plain old buff Roar Rhino wouldn't be preferable. IMO her ult should be a 2 or 3 skill not an ult. The healing pylon skill is lackluster among other healing options and especially given Magus Repair. The mirror is a weaker, less versatile version of Volt's shield with no team utility. The heart toss is a gimmick with too much windup. In a game with so much energy flowing around, I'd rather have an energy generating frame like Nekros or Nezha, etc. in the team that throws off energy for the whole team. Again little team utility on that skill. So what's the overall utility? Slash procs and pylon HOT healing? Meh IMO. Low-middling team utility, little CC and average to below damage with a weak ult. Garuda needs more IMO. Of course any frame works, and to many, fashion frame and fun factor outweigh raw power. This is reasonable in an easy, casual game like WF, but in an objective power/utility comparison, Garuda is sitting on the bench.

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7 часов назад, Kylo. сказал:

I don't see how Garuda is bad.

She has Damage Reduction via her Shield, she can generate energy, she can generate health and she can generate slash procs.

What more do you want?

 

 

 

note: I didn't read any comment in this thread lol

so, 1,2 and even 3 ability - just for surviveability. So...why not pick wukong for this? or inaros? or valk? where survivability is in one skill, and  not in 3/4.... 

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Her 4 adds Slash Procs to any damage you deal.

 

That means stuff like Discharge will stack crazy bleeding on anything affected by Talons.   I mean....that is pretty sick....  And this effect is unique to her.   

Forced bleed procs no matter what kind of damage you deal....that is a good ult.  Real good.  For both Solo and Teamplay.  

 

[edit]

Now, if Saryn was not as OP, Garuda + Saryn would be a pretty top tier combo.  Viral constant damage + Bleed? Yes.

But, unfortunately, DE love to make frames so "independent", that it absolutely negates any possible teamplay.  And that makes any support type frame feel like sht.

Even Trin is not really needed anywhere apart from Eidolon runs these days.

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Garuda's an odd one.

Ideally, build her with Flow, Quick Thinking, and Armor.  Massive damage reduction going into you energy pool, which you can refill instantly with health into an ability.  It's very ingenious, and her heal-aoe enemy draining ability heals you much more rapidly the less health you have.  Impale an enemy, then tap the health-to-energy ability a couple of times while in blood siphoning range, full energy just like that.  Her passive also rewards staying at low HP, so her kit is very synergistic.

If there's any problem I have with her survivability, it's that she's low on AoE hard CC, and QT still staggers you often.  She really needs immunity to QT stagger built into her passive, or the stagger just removed from QT entirely since its raison d' etre no longer exists.  Her shield is great.  It's not 360, but it's also not just a buffer or reduction.  It's complete immunity to damage coming from that direction.  Play smart, play like a wallflower.  Hug that wall good and hard.

Her new ult is in my opinion much, much better than the old one.  The old one was basically just another version of Ash's boring Bladestorm.  The new one is not only more interesting, but it synergizes perfectly with her huge AoE charge blasts as well.

Garuda has two problems.  One if her intentionally designed lack of AoE CC to compensate for her ability to do massive AoE bleeds.  The other is the stagger from Quick Thinking, which really, really shouldn't exist.

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I actually feel garuda is one of the better designed warframe. The past few frames for all their flaws feel like they are trying to tone down the easy access to extremely powerful utility and clearing.

Though for all the things i like she does have her problems.

1. Cast speed is way too low. I can understand that they have a lot of risk and reward for garuda but the cast speed just leaves you too vulnerable when everything you do suffers from it. It mostly just feels bad when you want to quickly set things up to offset the more risky moves since you cast a lot.

2. Other frames are still super easy to play. This makes what garuda does obsolete. None of what she does is inherently bad, its quite strong, kts just inefficient. I love her but never really want a garuda with me in a team comp because there are other frames that can just do the whole healing and damage thing in a more benefitial way. Only time shes neccesary is at levels so high youd have to be insane or so content starved to want to regularly attempt it.

3. If slash procs every get a change in how they work to make them less effective she will lose a significant amount of power. On the same note enemies who are bleed immune just shut you down damage wise.

So yeah, for efficiency sake shes not the greatest option by any means. But her playstyle is unique and well madrein a way that has me engaged more than any warframe ive played up to this point. I rarely end up using 4 abilities on a warframe so when one comes out that works so well with all 4 abilities I find it much more exciting.

First off, he whole set gives you what you put in and then some. Most other warframes you just use your abilities for whatever their general purpose is and they do what they are supposed to. Garudas abilities reward vigilance and understanding and managing risk.

You have enough armor to easily tank light units but you always have to be on the lookout for heavies. For the first time in a while i felt like i was using spatial awareness and listening for enemies to keep myself alive. Focusing on proper threats to take them out first so you can resume the carnage is something i like. Also just telling melee units to shoo and watch them keep walking into my shield is always a riot, wolf is just standing there flailing away 5 feet away like im pushing him away at an arms length as he tries to awing at my body fruitlessly.

With your heal, especially when stacked, you can survive so much more than jist your raw ehp can handle with proper use of your shield. Some might get worried as their hp drops but the higher healing on low HP can allow you to stay in the fight so much longer if you can properly understand how powerful that boosted low hp heal is and stay calm. Quick thinking whether built for it or not is a great failsafe.

Her 4th is one of my favorite ability for the sheer amount of interactions and outside the box thinking you can do with it. Since bleed is strongest with super high pure base damage as well as critical hits you can do so much weird stuff. Operator paired with garuda can be quite amusing, mark a whole crowd of enemies and pop out operator, spit 2 proppa nukes, let the 9k base and crit obliterate enemies with no self damage to you since its considered from the operator and not the frame.

Other things like thunderbolt/concealed explosives can actually be quite okay turning your ult into a buff that lets you clear enemies. My personal favorite though is acid shells. 15 meter explosion that damages an enemy with a bleed proc coming from a hit thats 45% + 450 base is dang strong and enemies killed from acid shells bleed spreads acid shells too!

This just gives garuda so much versatility in your arsenal so long as enemies can be bled. An operator with that burst fire prism basicslly lets you run any array of short range weapons since you can pop out and use that burst fire for massive bleed within 60m. The opticor beam works well too. If all we got was that horribly mundane aoe blender shed be nowhere near as interesting overall. It really speaks to who plays this warframe when thats the kind of ability they want for her over what we got.

Her passive is pretty solid too. Its multaplicative and a generic damage increase so even 50% can scale bleeds really high from weapons or warframe abilities. I do wish you could more regularly take advantage of it like giving you a boost for the lowest your hp was within X seconds so you can whip your health to 0 and get back up so you can do some burst. Hitting 2 hp is already a sharp risk as is since you cant sit next to too many blood altars without being unable to hit 2 hp.

I just find her extremely enjoyable and very survivable if you take the time to get decent at using her abilities. Sure you can do way more with many warframes by just hitting a button but theres still room for warframes that require a more thoughtful approach which reward you for being able to play with the entire kit effectively.

Nothing feels better than being in a narrow 1 way hallway and just mowing down enemies with a huge machine gun as they physically cant do anything to get tou.

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I'm very happy with her.

IMHO, the key to her are Natural Talent and Quick Thinking, ~200% Power Strength, rest of the mods to taste and the mission you want to go. Then it's about juggling your health, energy, and distance to your enemies depending on the situation. (There are other builds to maximise her 1 nuke for example, but I haven't really tried those.)

Also, she has so many mobility tools as long as there are enemies around, nothing compares to it. Ever tried flying with her 4? Or using your 3 for a ground slam (press RMB first)?

Another tip: bring a Radiation weapon and use it on a Blood Altar. Serves as a distraction in addition to being a health fountain.

 

She's definitely not very beginner friendly, but the playstyle she enables is really unique, and I'd rather have her be a niche pick than turned into something boring.

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On 2019-04-08 at 3:27 PM, MixtheBlender said:

The change to her #4 is the single most disappointing alteration to her. Some people may like it, but not me. The cool whirling blades ability is gone forever. I didn't even get to try it. People say her new #4 is used to take on high level enemies with slash, but in reality she lacks good defense option to let her safely charge her ult. I often have to get bullet spray in the face to use it (same problem with Hydroid btw). Her #3 healing is so weak she can't save anyone not even herself. Her 1 is just a poor front shield where as frames with good defense ability like Nezha's warding halo gives 360 degree protection. Let's not lie to ourselves, how many actually use her in sortie? I have plenty fingers left if you want me to count how many I actually saw.

I absolutely love Garuda. I think she's all around well balanced. I've used her on every mission type from lvl 5 thru well over 100.. even keeping myself and my cat alive throughout. Lol the razorback event is going on right now on xb & her weak poor little front shield😉 can damn near 1 shot the razorback. What I think 😤 is maybe learn the frame & get a better understanding of what it's about before running here to complain. Have you used this frame? Or are we just saying what "other people" are sayin.?

Cause what I know is from My experience with this frame & can say my success can be counted on both hands and feet.

 

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1 hour ago, Annnoth said:

I actually feel garuda is one of the better designed warframe. The past few frames for all their flaws feel like they are trying to tone down the easy access to extremely powerful utility and clearing.

Though for all the things i like she does have her problems.

1. Cast speed is way too low. I can understand that they have a lot of risk and reward for garuda but the cast speed just leaves you too vulnerable when everything you do suffers from it. It mostly just feels bad when you want to quickly set things up to offset the more risky moves since you cast a lot.

2. Other frames are still super easy to play. This makes what garuda does obsolete. None of what she does is inherently bad, its quite strong, kts just inefficient. I love her but never really want a garuda with me in a team comp because there are other frames that can just do the whole healing and damage thing in a more benefitial way. Only time shes neccesary is at levels so high youd have to be insane or so content starved to want to regularly attempt it.

3. If slash procs every get a change in how they work to make them less effective she will lose a significant amount of power. On the same note enemies who are bleed immune just shut you down damage wise.

So yeah, for efficiency sake shes not the greatest option by any means. But her playstyle is unique and well madrein a way that has me engaged more than any warframe ive played up to this point. I rarely end up using 4 abilities on a warframe so when one comes out that works so well with all 4 abilities I find it much more exciting.

First off, he whole set gives you what you put in and then some. Most other warframes you just use your abilities for whatever their general purpose is and they do what they are supposed to. Garudas abilities reward vigilance and understanding and managing risk.

You have enough armor to easily tank light units but you always have to be on the lookout for heavies. For the first time in a while i felt like i was using spatial awareness and listening for enemies to keep myself alive. Focusing on proper threats to take them out first so you can resume the carnage is something i like. Also just telling melee units to shoo and watch them keep walking into my shield is always a riot, wolf is just standing there flailing away 5 feet away like im pushing him away at an arms length as he tries to awing at my body fruitlessly.

With your heal, especially when stacked, you can survive so much more than jist your raw ehp can handle with proper use of your shield. Some might get worried as their hp drops but the higher healing on low HP can allow you to stay in the fight so much longer if you can properly understand how powerful that boosted low hp heal is and stay calm. Quick thinking whether built for it or not is a great failsafe.

Her 4th is one of my favorite ability for the sheer amount of interactions and outside the box thinking you can do with it. Since bleed is strongest with super high pure base damage as well as critical hits you can do so much weird stuff. Operator paired with garuda can be quite amusing, mark a whole crowd of enemies and pop out operator, spit 2 proppa nukes, let the 9k base and crit obliterate enemies with no self damage to you since its considered from the operator and not the frame.

Other things like thunderbolt/concealed explosives can actually be quite okay turning your ult into a buff that lets you clear enemies. My personal favorite though is acid shells. 15 meter explosion that damages an enemy with a bleed proc coming from a hit thats 45% + 450 base is dang strong and enemies killed from acid shells bleed spreads acid shells too!

This just gives garuda so much versatility in your arsenal so long as enemies can be bled. An operator with that burst fire prism basicslly lets you run any array of short range weapons since you can pop out and use that burst fire for massive bleed within 60m. The opticor beam works well too. If all we got was that horribly mundane aoe blender shed be nowhere near as interesting overall. It really speaks to who plays this warframe when thats the kind of ability they want for her over what we got.

Her passive is pretty solid too. Its multaplicative and a generic damage increase so even 50% can scale bleeds really high from weapons or warframe abilities. I do wish you could more regularly take advantage of it like giving you a boost for the lowest your hp was within X seconds so you can whip your health to 0 and get back up so you can do some burst. Hitting 2 hp is already a sharp risk as is since you cant sit next to too many blood altars without being unable to hit 2 hp.

I just find her extremely enjoyable and very survivable if you take the time to get decent at using her abilities. Sure you can do way more with many warframes by just hitting a button but theres still room for warframes that require a more thoughtful approach which reward you for being able to play with the entire kit effectively.

Nothing feels better than being in a narrow 1 way hallway and just mowing down enemies with a huge machine gun as they physically cant do anything to get tou.

Well said 👍👍

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On 2019-04-16 at 1:47 AM, (PS4)ErydisTheLucario said:

i personally wish her passive was different. what good is a damage buff if you have to be near death, and its rendered irrelevant when she starts healing herself. most people play her as a tank anyway, which i can get behind, but her passive doesnt really help in any situation unless you like dying all the time. thats just my thought on her.

Well, that's why you build Flow and Quick Thinking.  You have an ability that you can tap once or twice to bring your HP to 2 nigh instantly.  She's an energy tank more than a health tank IMO, due to her passive and all of her kit's synergies.  Damage going into QT is only taking 1 energy for every 2.4 damage, which is ~58% reduction if you think of it that way.  Then you have armor it has to get through to even hit QT.  Her energy pool isn't huge, but a Primed Flow, QT, and Steel Fiber will make it go quite a ways.  Less than 14% of the damage done will be converted into damage on you energy pool, even after your health is depleted.

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15 hours ago, Melanholic7 said:

hard to argue with this cause its 100% truth. 

The Wukong mains have found their way into the thread. Ecks dee.

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On 2019-05-19 at 2:18 PM, Kainosh said:

Her 4 adds Slash Procs to any damage you deal.

 

That means stuff like Discharge will stack crazy bleeding on anything affected by Talons.   I mean....that is pretty sick....  And this effect is unique to her.   

Forced bleed procs no matter what kind of damage you deal....that is a good ult.  Real good.  For both Solo and Teamplay. 

Her 4 can work on Equinox's Maim. I noticed it during a run at Mot that was near two hours and my Friend was one shotting lvl 200 - 300+ with Maim when he was playing Equinox and the enemies was affected by Seeking Talons. But it's brutal when combined with the blood Orb of Dread Mirror since it can one shot even at lvl 330+.

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Yep, im super okay with it. Actually I'm more happy with current ultimate

Her old ultimate is just a boring "Ultimate to Win" and "lazy frame"

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18 hours ago, Melanholic7 said:

so, 1,2 and even 3 ability - just for surviveability. So...why not pick wukong for this? or inaros? or valk? where survivability is in one skill, and  not in 3/4.... 

1 is also damage, 2 also heals your team, 3 is energy not survivability?

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54 минуты назад, Kylo. сказал:

1 is also damage, 2 also heals your team, 3 is energy not survivability?

well,i was answering to a other guy thought where he describes her skills like this "wow,1 so much def, wow 2 so much sustain, wow 3 free energy", where 1 is clunky def tool, 2 is not bad heal, but it neglects her 3 - cause u either use good heals = u dont need energy (u are using low cost skill anyway) for surviving through quickthinking,or you are using energy quick thinking as mayb surviveability tool - so ur 2 and 3 are just one skill,which helps u just to be like  Wukong with his one skill... 

____

I mean,dont get me wrong - her skills are...useful? but there are alot other BETTER frames options.

Other frames will do same job but much easier (dont need to turn ur 1 shield to oneside,to block enemies, while u can play Inaros and be shield urself; dont need to smash and balance with 2 and 3 just to have healthpool,while u can be just invurnable with Valk ulty and her quickthinking too; no need to make slow ult casts to add some dmg to targets,when u can just press ur AOE buff for whole squad with Rhino...)

Myself - im playing her cause i like her look, esp with Tennogen skin. And her claws are pretty decent too,with right mods. But anyway, its not the best frame to choose, if u want to make effecient pick. She is worse then plenty of other frames. 

____

(on the other side - she is like more tanky Oberon with heal,some dmg boost but with no status immunity. I dunno what is better - tanky body and some bleeds buffs or status immunity to squad, less tanky frame and deleting enemy armor. I guess Oberon is still > Garuda in supporting. But she also heals more (i guess?cant remember her numbers)...

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4 minutes ago, Melanholic7 said:

Other frames will do same job but much easier (dont need to turn ur 1 shield to oneside,to block enemies, while u can play Inaros and be shield urself; dont need to smash and balance with 2 and 3 just to have healthpool,while u can be just invurnable with Valk ulty and her quickthinking too; no need to make slow ult casts to add some dmg to targets,when u can just press ur AOE buff for whole squad with Rhino...)

 

Firstly, you are just naming frames that can do one of the things.

Secondly at higher level the slash procs are way better than Rhino's Damage buff.

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1 минуту назад, Kylo. сказал:

Firstly, you are just naming frames that can do one of the things.

Secondly at higher level the slash procs are way better than Rhino's Damage buff.

i dunno,at which levels? like at 180 level enemies im fine with rhino buff just to oneshotting (at least killing in one second) groups of enemies in arbitration with nice range melee attacks. Why do u need slashes?o_O 

anyway, thats just my thoughts, i dont want to tell "she is S#&$, im the only smart here, close thread", its more like "for me she is weak choice,cause other frames can do better for any mission"

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23 hours ago, xmegarockx said:

i hate charge ability!

 

The most succinct description of her problems. 

This adds clunk and clunk is something she can do without. Remove that and she's a lot more playable. She still has an issue of being tied to her altars, but you can't have everything and they're flexible enough with some forethought. 

The other issue is a shield that doesn't block all that well. As has been pointed out, if there's AoE involved, you'd better be somewhere else because you can't block it. 

Cut the cast times in half, fix that shield, and she'd be in a far better place. 

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On 2019-05-19 at 5:10 AM, Kylo. said:

I don't see how Garuda is bad.

She has Damage Reduction via her Shield, she can generate energy, she can generate health and she can generate slash procs.

What more do you want?

 

 

 

note: I didn't read any comment in this thread lol

It's less that she's bad in an obvious way.  It's more that she doesn't have a place in a team.  Majority of weapons in the game are capable of killing 150+ heavy armored enemies.  and pretty much any DPS frame is capable of killing just fine without her slash procs.  It's kind of like Harrow's situation.  Fairly good frame all around.  But if their allies are capable of self sustaining they don't have much place in the team.

She's a fun frame not a farm frame.  Not a meta frame.  She just exists.  Some people are okay with this.  Those who have an issue with her typically are not.

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44 minutes ago, (XB1)Knight Raime said:

It's less that she's bad in an obvious way.  It's more that she doesn't have a place in a team.  Majority of weapons in the game are capable of killing 150+ heavy armored enemies.  and pretty much any DPS frame is capable of killing just fine without her slash procs.  It's kind of like Harrow's situation.  Fairly good frame all around.  But if their allies are capable of self sustaining they don't have much place in the team.

She's a fun frame not a farm frame.  Not a meta frame.  She just exists.  Some people are okay with this.  Those who have an issue with her typically are not.

What you are saying is, she is perfectly fine, unless you are a meta whore, because allies are not capable of self sustaining.

Gotcha.

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