What challenges are acceptable?

[Kaotyke]

Weeklies challenges should be in the range of "Log into the game".

Elite Weeklies should be "Walk forward 1 meter".

Dailies should be "breathe".

And we would still get people complaining that its too hard.

[Test-995]

2 minutes ago, (PS4)Pauloluisx said:

Why is it bad? Why shouldn't you learn that certain types of damage are better for specific enemies? Because most of the time I'm on an Enhanced Shield Sortie I'm surrounded by low and high mastery people (no kidding, like 80% of the time) and they have a hard time killing the Corpus. Because they apparently don't know that Magnetic is specially for those situations. And what's the trade-off? All you have to do is swap out that toxin mod on your build for an ice one, so that instead of the beloved corrosive you have magnetic.

And even for nightwave purposes it's just that swap-in/swap-out, do a couple of missions like relics, low level, and boom. Done. "With x element" is still viable in my book, and if people can't be bothered to use the build tabs they so much ask for that's not DE's fault.

Because it's tedious and we could fighting grineers for entire week?

Changing build is pointless effort anyways.

[(PSN)Hikuro-93]

4 minutes ago, Test-995 said:

Because it's tedious and we could fighting grineers for entire week?

Changing build is pointless effort anyways.

Define "tedious". Because as I stated on my other comment that word is thrown around as if it was a fact. Because challenges with friends are tedious, 1h runs are tedious, kill x enemies in general is tedious, kill x enemies with x damage is tedious, doing ESO is tedious, doing sortie is tedious, scanning plants is tedious, doing bounties is tedious... Absolutely everything is tedious/diffucult to someone. Which takes us to my core point: "No challenges are allowed".

[Vox_Preliator]

25 minutes ago, Gabbynaru said:

It's not "Do a few missions", it's "Do a few missions THIS SPECIFIC WAY". I have no problem with "Do 5 spy missions", "Do 10 fissures" or whatever, but when they specify to do something a specific way, that's when the system can piss off. Same for "challenges" that rely on RNG (Ayatans and Amber Stars that never drop) or that make me use my own bloody resources for no good reason.

Oh and, you may play relics and invasions, I generally am not. But once again, since those challenges don't specify S#&$ like "Play 5 Corpus VS Grineer Defense invasions", I'm fine with them, cause Phorid exists, so I ain't wasting my time when I could be doing something a lot more productive and profitable.

You keep talking about how terrible Nightwave is, but these issues you keep bringing up were, if anything, worse with Alerts.  "For this reward, do this specific mission and only this mission, and also right now, not later, now.  Or miss it, and never see this helmet for another five months."

You say you don't mind "just play the game" missions, but this week alone we had "Three Captures," "Ten Nightmare," "Ten Fissures," "Nine Invasions," and "Three Sorties," all of which are "just play the game."  Three of these can be of whatever mission type, including Capture which would count towards two challenges at once.  Sorties are nearly always worth doing.  Ayatan Stars are plentiful just by occasionally breaking crates and opening lockers (which finishes another daily) as you pass by without slowing down as you play, and sculptures are guaranteed from Maroo and decently likely from Sorties, which again should really be done anyway, plus just keeping an eye out for them in missions.  Mining and Fishing are deviations from "just playing" but they're also like fifteen minutes max to finish both of them at the same time.  "Collect Rare Mods" is almost entirely passive, and even then a round of the Index takes care of that.  That leaves the "Kill with element" missions, which don't require anything except swapping out one or two mods before heading out to do whatever, and the "Use three forma" mission, which is dumb.

So one out of thirteen missions right now are unreasonable, and three out of thirteen are anything other than extra rewards for just playing the game  And skipping those would still net you all of Nightwave's rewards.

Edited April 9, 2019 by Vox_Preliator

[Highlord83]

The challenges aren't bad at all. Its the stupid B.S. way all the material people are actually be interested in are under a mo ntain of time limited grinding.  Were the Forma, Unbral Forma, and potatoes on the "stuff" tab and purchasable with Wolf Creds, and all the grind gear and sigil stupidity replaced with more creds, itd be great for everyone.

Instead, DE decide to make Nightwave a massive grind fest to appease the basememt dwellers.

[Test-995]

Just now, (PS4)Pauloluisx said:

Define "tedious". Because as I stated on my other comment that word is thrown around as if it was a fact. Because challenges with friends are tedious, 1h runs are tedious, kill x enemies in general is tedious, kill x enemies with x damage is tedious, doing ESO is tedious, doing sortie is tedious, scanning plants is tedious, doing bounties is tedious... Absolutely everything is tedious/diffucult to someone. Which takes us to my core point: "No challenges are allowed".

Kill x enemies in general is not, almost every missions need at least 1 kills. (even though "kill 30000 enemies" would be tedious, just too much.)

But kill x enemies with x damage is tedious, you have to fix build(that you usually don't have to)for just that challenge.

With friend is tedious, not every person have friend. 1h runs are tedious, just too time consuming. ESO is tedious, only nukers love those. sortie is tedious, it takes time and bit kinda rather a little harder. scanning plants is tedious, since it's nothing to do with "normal" warframe gameplay... that is mostly killing enemies. doing bounties is tedious, not every person loves open world.

Almost everything is tedious or difficult to someone, but literal "play a game" and "login" shouldn't be problem for players.

 

[(PSN)Viveeeh]

I think Nightwave is good because it teaches newcomers and reminds the others what things can they do in Warframe.

For example, I can't even remember when I did vault runs for the last time, but I did the last week and remembered how fun they were. Even went in solo when my squad left. 

New players learn they can forma stuff (reading Players helping players this is not that self explanatory for everyone), mod for different elements, do bounties, etc. They get to know their possibilities.

Sure, vets find the challenges meant for newbies tedious, and this is understandable. They are angry, because they do these simple tasks anyway, for the shiny new exclusive rewards. Nightwave needs extra hard challenges, which could only be done by the most skillful players, for a ton of points. The elite weeklies aren't elite enough. Others could reach lvl 30 completing the acts we have now.

Edited April 10, 2019 by (PS4)Viveeeh
Corrected a typo (better late than never)

[Test-995]

2 minutes ago, Vox_Preliator said:

You say you don't mind "just play the game" missions, but this week alone we had "Three Captures," "Ten Nightmare," "Ten Fissures," "Nine Invasions," and "Three Sorties," all of which are "just play the game." 

I'm sorry my warframe is only about ESO, those nightmare/fissure/invasion/sorties are not "play the game" for me.

[Mez999]

I don’t understand the angst against the damage types. I logged on today with kill 150 enemies using blast and the 150 enemies using corrosive. I modded my Arca Plasmor for both and completed it passively during the Sortie. I then swapped it back to my usual set up. It wasn’t exactly difficult and didn’t disrupt my gaming. 

The other challenges push me to explore or revisit parts of the game I don’t usually play and I don’t mind that. 

Using resources isn’t ideal (Forma) but I look at the positive - I hesitate forma’ing usually because I want my strongest weapons and don’t have a lot of time to level them back up. This encourages me to do that. 

The biggest and single most important point though - we have a CHOICE. You only need 60% and nobody is forcing you to do this. I’m confused why people are using the word “forced”. You can see the rewards, you know the general things on sale in cred offerings. It is up to you if you want to participate. 

What would be acceptable? Drop the friends requirement to be honest as it is a pointless exercise. Possibly look at doing challenges similar to Riven challenges. I just unlocked a Riven by making 11 headshots at 100m. It at least encouraged me to use a bit of skill and patience rather than “gaming by numbers” and blitzing through a level. A more difficult version of this would be nice for elite challenges. 

Although as indicated above, you’ll never make everyone happy and some people are incapable of getting it or seeing the positive in something. 

[DoTengri]

* Nothing that depends on you being able to login (almost) every day. ppl do have jobs/family/stuff that may restrict their playtime to only a few days per week.

Like 5 sorties in a week - stuff like that you simply can not get done during a weekend because of artificial restrictions/limits of mission availability. That's really a no-go.

 

* Nothing that is based only on "luck"/rng.

Like getting x statues to socket in a week. Definitely a no-go, too.

 

 

[(PSN)Hikuro-93]

8 minutes ago, Test-995 said:

Kill x enemies in general is not, almost every missions need at least 1 kills. (even though "kill 30000 enemies" would be tedious, just too much.)

But kill x enemies with x damage is tedious, you have to fix build(that you usually don't have to)for just that challenge.

With friend is tedious, not every person have friend. 1h runs are tedious, just too time consuming. ESO is tedious, only nukers love those. sortie is tedious, it takes time and bit kinda rather a little harder. scanning plants is tedious, since it's nothing to do with "normal" warframe gameplay... that is mostly killing enemies. doing bounties is tedious, not every person loves open world.

Almost everything is tedious or difficult to someone, but literal "play a game" and "login" shouldn't be problem for players.

 

But that's still mostly an opinion. Because if I am giving my own personal opinion on this matter, with no regards to what others might like or not, then the only thing I'd remove is the forma one, and reduce the sortie and bounties one. Maybe even remove the "farm gems/fish" because I dislike that. I even like the friends on because it gives me an excuse to team up with dear alliance mates. I also like the 1h/4wavers because I can just have some dumb fun with loads of enemies. But that's me, and I can't force others to like what I like, and hate what I hate.

Hence what I said previously. I only see DE removing the challenges that don't have much logic to them, such as the friends one, despite me enjoying it.

[Test-995]

2 minutes ago, (PS4)Pauloluisx said:

But that's still mostly an opinion. Because if I am giving my own personal opinion on this matter, with no regards to what others might like or not, then the only thing I'd remove is the forma one, and reduce the sortie and bounties one. Maybe even remove the "farm gems/fish" because I dislike that. I even like the friends on because it gives me an excuse to team up with dear alliance mates. I also like the 1h/4wavers because I can just have some dumb fun with loads of enemies. But that's me, and I can't force others to like what I like, and hate what I hate.

Hence what I said previously. I only see DE removing the challenges that don't have much logic to them, such as the friends one, despite me enjoying it.

Well, you can't deny "killing a enemy" is logically impossible to be hated... oh nvm, some people could do only trading and love to being pacifist.

I think it's basically worse version of event, that you can grind in day 1/2 and never touch it again... unlike nightwaves that you have to do 60% of those every week.

[Gabbynaru]

2 minutes ago, Vox_Preliator said:

You keep talking about how terrible Nightwave is, but these issues you keep bringing up were, if anything, worse with Alerts.  "For this reward, do this specific mission and only this mission, and also right now, not later, now.  Or miss it, and never see this helmet for another five months."

You say you don't mind "just play the game" missions, but this week alone we had "Three Captures," "Ten Nightmare," "Ten Fissures," "Nine Invasions," and "Three Sorties," all of which are "just play the game."  Three of these can be of whatever mission type, including Capture which would count towards two challenges at once.  Sorties are nearly always worth doing.  Ayatan Stars are plentiful just by occasionally breaking crates and opening lockers (which finishes another daily) as you pass by without slowing down as you play, and sculptures are guaranteed from Maroo and decently likely from Sorties, which again should really be done anyway, plus just keeping an eye out for them in missions.  Mining and Fishing are deviations from "just playing" but they're also like fifteen minutes max to finish both of them at the same time.  "Collect Rare Mods" is almost entirely passive, and even then a round of the Index takes care of that.  That leaves the "Kill with element" missions, which don't require anything except swapping out one or two mods before heading out to do whatever, and the "Use three forma" mission, which is dumb.

So one out of thirteen missions right now are unreasonable, and three out of thirteen are anything other than extra rewards for just playing the game  And skipping those would still net you all of Nightwave's rewards.

Right, but you're forgetting something. With the old alert system, you did that 1 mission, then and there, and you got that helmet. Nightwave? Well, you gotta do challenges to get at least 30k worth of rep for that 1 helmet. Many, many missions, and for what? A goddamn helmet? I'd rather farm the plat, it's way faster.

Oh and lucky you with your Ayatan Stars. I'm still getting 1 Amber Star per day (if I'm lucky). That's apparently my quota. There's like 1 sculpture per week from Maroo (not enough for the challenge), and the sorties are so diluted with useless rivens these days that seeing a statue from it is an event worth celebrating for me. Once again, challenges that rely on RNG are not challenges. They're bullish*t. RNG is not a challenge.

You're also forgetting that there are people out there who just enjoy 1 mission (not type of mission, one mission. Yeah, I saw people saying they only play Hydron or stuff like that). I'm in the camp of only playing 1 type of mission, spies, which I find extremely enjoyable. Everything else is a deviation that I may not actually enjoy, especially if it wastes my time. So while this week has been rather fine (bar the Formas and the RNG reliant Sculptures), there have been challenges in the past weeks that have been absolutely horrible. And heck, even if I'm fine with these deviations, at the end of the day they're still wasting my time and not giving me anything for my efforts. And no, they're not challenging. None of these "challenges" have been challenging. But they're wasting my time, and that's a serious issue. Yeah, Warframe is a time-sink. But in the past it allowed me to choose how and where to sink my time. Nightwave takes that away and gives nothing in return. And for that it can piss off.

[wargthewarg]

I hope that when Nightwave finishes DE will show us statistics on the following devstream of what challenges were most commonly not completed.

 

[TARINunit9]

1 hour ago, (XB1)FISTO ROBOT0 said:

so I was wondering, what is acceptable? What challenges are okay?

Here's my take on it: any challenge that requires you to use up a limited resource is not acceptable.

"Use three forma". Forma are so limited in this game that DE charges us plat for them. No I don't care that I stocked up 100+ forma back in the days of Void keys, this is a huge pet peeve of mine

"Socket three ayatans". You are only guaranteed one ayatan a week, and any more than that is dependent on RNG. We should not be doing sorties begging for the ayatan reward, that is tremendously backwards

"Gild one modular item". NO. This is just flat-out NO in my book. No no no no no. I should not have to buy a weapon slot for Nightwave

[Test-995]

2 minutes ago, wargthewarg said:

I hope that when Nightwave finishes DE will show us statistics on the following devstream of what challenges were most commonly not completed.

 

Actually it doesn't matter, we do every challenge and that is the reason why we complain.

 

[(NSW)Sk0rp1on]

1 hour ago, (PS4)AllOrNothinDays said:

...More than that and you have to ask what was the point, you took away things that helped new players and made it so some of these "challenges" can't be completed by them? ok....

 

 

This is a good point. If alerts were more commonly used by lower level players, it’s pribably OK to keep Night Wave pretty low level too. 

Still, they wanted to make a Battle Pass that encouraged daily activity by all players so they kinda rolled that and alert rewards all into one.

i suspect that another reason behind Nightwave is to encourage people to try out game modes they never participate in.  Personally, I completed a few quests and did thing like the Orikin derelict that I normally wouldn’t have. 

Anyways, it’s been an interesting test, at least. Hopefully they can find something that will make more people happy.

[(PSN)Hikuro-93]

52 minutes ago, Gruiz said:

"Headshot 10 times in row with bow"

I like this one, as someone who plays bows for fun. Good idea!

[wargthewarg]

14 minutes ago, Test-995 said:

Actually it doesn't matter, we do every challenge and that is the reason why we complain.

 

I decided that I would not torture myself so I have not done the challenges I can't bring myself to do. Then there's the challenges people couldn't do (like Orb Mother).

Even if it was 90%+ of all challenges being completed I'd be interested in the stats. Because that would also prove that DE can keep all these challenges pretty much unchanged because the majority is willing to suffer them if the reward is unique enough.

[(PSN)Hikuro-93]

46 minutes ago, Highlord83 said:

and all the grind gear and sigil stupidity replaced with more creds

To this day I still don't know what most sigils are for, since the only useful and mandatory ones are the syndicate sigils. I can also understand the other cosmetics but those could have easily been wolf cred store stuff, with us having more wolf cred to spend from the 10k reward table. I hope DE fixes this by next season, from (truly) illogical challenges in general, to truly useless rewards and correcting where they come from, and delivering more wolf creds because of newbies. 

[(NSW)Sk0rp1on]

All this feedback really makes me wonder if psychologists have studied reward structures and how it might apply to warframe.

Maybe completing 1 sortie out of 5 isn’t very satisfying in the context of Night Wave because you don’t really get anything, it’s just i one step along the way.  If this is true, then the rewards every 10000 points compound this because completing a whole challenge might not get you to the next reward tier.

Makes me wonder how many trained psychologists a company like Tencent employs to study their player base.  

 

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Zelmen said:

Only thing I think most hate are being forced to player with others (in an online game...)

Yeah, that is type of challenge I dislike the most. I'm very anti-social, but I do play with other players every time tho. The thing is, I use pub matchmaking, and that requires zero social skills and no talk at all. Everyone just joins the game, play however they like, complete the mission and leave. Easy and simple.

What I don't like about that challenge is having to interact with others and ask them if you can add them. If the challenge said "play 1hr survival on public matchmaking, with a friend OR a clanmate", I'd be totally cool with it.

[(XBOX)FISTO ROBOT0]

2 hours ago, Gabbynaru said:

Define reward. Cause I have yet to feel like I've been rewarded by Nightwave, and it's been 6 bloody weeks. After all the work this PoS system asked me to put it, all the time it asked me to waste, if that Syandana and Armor set ain't better than Riv Elite, I'm gonna be even more pissed than I am now, and if you follow my post history, you'll see I'm pretty goddamn pissed at Nigthwave.

Sheesh.... can we take this down a few notches, it’s just a game, and you’re getting free stuff... 

[Gabbynaru]

15 minutes ago, (XB1)FISTO ROBOT0 said:

Sheesh.... can we take this down a few notches, it’s just a game, and you’re getting free stuff... 

Time is not free.

[(PSN)Hikuro-93]

Just now, Gabbynaru said:

Time is not free.

It is optional, though.