What challenges are acceptable?

[Test-995]

1 hour ago, Zilchy said:

 

....

OOPS, somebody screwed up. Maybe you just really can't be bothered doing the challenges and are making excuses.

lul i'm just saying almost everything can be tedious FOR SOMEONE.

i'll do all the nightwave anyways, it's not that big deal FOR ME.

Edited April 10, 2019 by Test-995

[-CdG-Zilchy]

1 hour ago, (PS4)Zero_029 said:

Been there. Done that. Got torn to shreds by the Jackals...ahem...I mean...folks who think Nightwave is "Just Fine as it is. In fact we need more 1hr challenges & etc.".

But I am still trying to beat it into DE every chance I get. As I've got 6 newbies under my wing...their reaction & opinion over Nightwave has helped me keep my "veteran" mindset in check & has kept me very objective with all the chaos going on in Warframe.

@Zilchy
I know that those sound "easy" but one reason why Nightwave is getting such a rough reception is due to the "chore" feel challenges have.
While some members such as yourself (no offense) desire challenges that are balls to the wall hard, make em sweat, or back breaking in challenge, to the bulk of the community those challenges are a chore.
Systems like Nightwave have to thread the line between chore & fun, while remaining accessible.
DE found that the Hydrolyst & Profit Taker Challenges were NOT accessible in any way to a larger (than anyone on these forums will care to admit) percentage...bah...lets be blunt. The Majority of the Community. (Which spurred lots of the backlash as it was literally an "Impossible challenge")

Additionally, when Challenges disrupt gameplay, force specific playstyles, or turn a fun romp into a teeth grinding ordeal. The game ceases to be fun.
While veterans (such as us) might not mind it to an extent, to the bulk of the community who are use to the significantly less disruptive (gameplay, immersion, & ftime investment) Alert system, such challenges push them away from the game, burn them out on the game, & in the long run negatively impact the game.
Not saying what you desire is "bad". Just we have to constantly ask: "What is disruptive to the overall experience & what isn't."

As I read thread after thread after thread after thread after thread of Nightwave complaints.
The bulk of them all fall under 1 category: "Disruption of the Gameplay Experience"
IE: "My fun was halted/interrupted due to ___.", "I could no longer do ___ because I have Nightwave's ___ to worry about."

Nightwave has to walk cautiously. As once game's feel like a job (which some challenges do...) players start leaving in droves.
Many of Warframe's competitors are having this issue. (The Destiny 2 franchise especially.)

I'm rambling at this point. Hopefully I made sense. Not enough sleep, too many 12hr shifts, and not enough coffee at the time of this posting.

I understand everything you say and my own ideal of nightwave is to have easy, instructional learning curve challenges for new players like killing with different weapon elementals, opening lockers, doing certain mission types etc so that they learn. Then I'd have medium level for everyone to do, accessible for everyone but not too time consuming. Then I'd havea few elite challenges that are still accessible to new players WITH SOME EFFORT. And then I'd have just 1 or 2 filthy hard challenges per week for the ones who want to push the skill curve, I'm talking lvl 1000 enemies, endurance or time trial tests etc things that are actually difficult to complete, even for a pro player. 

I'd also award more wolf credits in earlier tiers and for the prestige ranks after 30 I'd award kuva since it's more likely that vets are going to reach that stage and it's literally the only thing vets will never say no to more of.

And you know what annoys me beyond measure? Like you cannot comprehend how angry it makes me... despite catering for everyone in that setup, despite making sure that new players can get enough standing for everything, people will STILL COMPLAIN. And you know why? Because the one or two really hard challenges per week are too hard for most players despite not even needing the standing to complete Nightwave, they will say it's "unfair" and "biased" towards vets because they can get more standing. The entitlement annoys me more than you can imagine. Regardless of how much you please them you can never also please the ones who actually want a challenge cos they'll cry about it because the truth is, they only care about themselves and f&#k everybody else.

And it's because of that attitude I've stopped caring about what they want or think. Warframe is becoming stupidly easy with every salty tear on the forums, they're ruining the game more and more.

Edited April 10, 2019 by Zilchy

[WindigoTG]

14 hours ago, (PS4)Pauloluisx said:

Because they apparently don't know that Magnetic is specially for those situations. And what's the trade-off? All you have to do is swap out that toxin mod on your build for an ice one

You are doing it so, so, SO wrong, I can't even...

 

Spoiler

There's not one, but _two way better and more effective damage types for these situations.

 

[(PSN)Hikuro-93]

12 minutes ago, WindigoTG said:

You are doing it so, so, SO wrong, I can't even...

 

  Hide contents

There's not one, but _two way better and more effective damage types for these situations.

 

If you say so, I'll believe you. I still like how magnetic solves my problem, and fact is I still see lots of people struggling with it so they don't know about magnetic or other combinations. I also dislike Toxin and Gas for those missions, my dude. But I hope you know I'm still right. Because barging in and claiming "wrong" does not qualify as an argument.

Edited April 10, 2019 by (PS4)Pauloluisx

[Lutesque]

1 hour ago, Zilchy said:

And you know what annoys me beyond measure? Like you cannot comprehend how angry it makes me... despite catering for everyone in that setup, despite making sure that new players can get enough standing for everything, people will STILL COMPLAIN. And you know why? Because the one or two really hard challenges per week are too hard for most players despite not even needing the standing to complete Nightwave, they will say it's "unfair" and "biased" towards vets because they can get more standing. The entitlement annoys me more than you can imagine. Regardless of how much you please them you can never also please the ones who actually want a challenge cos they'll cry about it because the truth is, they only care about themselves and f&#k everybody else.

You do realise that after Rank 30 you get more Wolf Creds right ? 

That means more Nitain and Potatoes.... which new players need WAAAAAAAAY more than vets.... so yeah.... we have to do every single challenge and capture every Fugitive and Delete that tanky bastard off the face of the earth.

 

[-CdG-Zilchy]

3 minutes ago, Lutesque said:

You do realise that after Rank 30 you get more Wolf Creds right ? 

That means more Nitain and Potatoes.... which new players need WAAAAAAAAY more than vets.... so yeah.... we have to do every single challenge and capture every Fugitive and Delete that tanky bastard off the face of the earth.

 

Yes that's why I stated that lower ranks should be where the wolf credits are. Because that's where newer players are more likely to get to. Veteran players on the other hand will easily blow past rank 30 and have no use for wolf credits, what am I gonna do with them? Add another potato to the pile? Gimme kuva, it's literally the only resource I always want more of.

[-CdG-Zilchy]

6 minutes ago, (PS4)Pauloluisx said:

If you say so, I'll believe you. I still like how magnetic solves my problem, and fact is I still see lots of people struggling with it so they don't know about magnetic or other combinations. I also dislike Toxin and Gas for those missions, my dude. But I hope you know I'm still right. Because barging in and claiming "wrong" does not qualify as an atgument.

He's mainly referring to toxin damage on account of the fact that it bypasses shields and corpus generally have an itty bitty little health bar so they die pretty much instantly.

[(PSN)Zero_029]

13 minutes ago, Zilchy said:

I understand everything you say and my own ideal of nightwave is to have easy, instructional learning curve challenges for new players like killing with different weapon elementals, opening lockers, doing certain mission types etc so that they learn. Then I'd have medium level for everyone to do, accessible for everyone but not too time consuming. Then I'd havea few elite challenges that are still accessible to new players WITH SOME EFFORT. And then I'd have just 1 or 2 filthy hard challenges per week for the ones who want to push the skill curve, I'm talking lvl 1000 enemies, endurance or time trial tests etc things that are actually difficult to complete, even for a pro player. 

All good ideas. The only issue is the filthy hard challenges. How much standing would you reward? If it's more than say the "WITH SOME EFFORT" challenges then there will be no end to the salt. "Unfair Advantage", "Gating off Content" etc posts...
I know there is a tiny sub section of the community that would love those challenges. But once again we must ask ourselves...are such challenges healthy for the game overall?

 

29 minutes ago, Zilchy said:

I'd also award more wolf credits in earlier tiers and for the prestige ranks after 30 I'd award kuva since it's more likely that vets are going to reach that stage and it's literally the only thing vets will never say no to more of.

This is something that has BOGGLED my mind throughout Season 1.
Newbies can only handle so much of Season 1's badly designed challenges. So why would DE not front load the rank ups with creds?
Hell ALL Seasons should have the currencies be more plentiful up front. As that ensures new players can access the rewards/content designed for them.
Should be Creds every other rank up with small things like Forma packs, Endo (like 20k) mixed in until say rank 15. Then it should be pure veteran rewards: Kuva, Captura, Syandana, armor, emotes, Umbra Forma, etc.

As for your last point.
There is no pleasing everyone. It's a rough balance for devs to walk as well.
I completely see your point of view & trying to be objective I completely see why DE cannot implement those challenges.
In truth the "Unfair Advantage" complain is valid. With "seasons" like this those we'll call them "veteran only" challenges would add up far too quickly and we'd soon see "pay to catch" features as people would ironically demand it. Which then makes it all pay to win (many other games with a form of battlepass ended up added this) which then invalidates the point of the vet challenges if you think about it.

I'm mixed on the whole: "Warframe is too easy" argument.
I've never known Warframe to be Dark Souls/Demon Souls/Bloodbourne hard to begin with. I've played it off & on for years. It use to be just...well...frustrating due to poor mechanics, bad rng, & repetitiveness if anything. Plus some Free to Play BS (Plat for revives & etc)
Yet that seems to be what veterans desire. Yet they also do not want to not be nerfed/weakened in any capacity, when those very games are tough because the player is so dramatically underpowered (for the most part) in comparison to the enemies.
I think over the years DE has just lost control of player power growth. Yet they need to help players feel more powerful with each major update to give some form of progression to them.
I know Steve has mentioned them wanting to retune/rework multi-shot & status. (Which would DRAMATICALLY reduce player power. Potentially to where even level 100 enemies become serious threats once more.)
I dunno...we're somewhat off topic when we get into power creep/difficulty discussion...

[Lutesque]

Just now, Zilchy said:

Yes that's why I stated that lower ranks should be where the wolf credits are. Because that's where newer players are more likely to get to. Veteran players on the other hand will easily blow past rank 30 and have no use for wolf credits, what am I gonna do with them? Add another potato to the pile? Gimme kuva, it's literally the only resource I always want more of.

Actually given that Rivens further increase effectiveness of weapons then New players are going to want those just as much.... literally anything with Gameplay implications is going to be unfair to new players.... all Items past Rank 30 should Cosmetic. Give those vets something to show and make everybody jealous. 

 

[(PSN)Hikuro-93]

5 minutes ago, Zilchy said:

He's mainly referring to toxin damage on account of the fact that it bypasses shields and corpus generally have an itty bitty little health bar so they die pretty much instantly.

Yes, I know, and he's right. But I dislike single-element damage and as such I use magnetic. All fair, but my original point referring to magnetic for enhanced sorties was "kill x enemies with y damage" can be good for players to try elements out and finding out what they are good for, on another discussion. Besides the commenter did not even state the obvious, which was indeed Toxin as I also stated in my reply, to state a hollow and unhelpful remark.

Edited April 10, 2019 by (PS4)Pauloluisx

[AndyBeans]

15 hours ago, (XB1)FISTO ROBOT0 said:

Hi Tenno! I seem to notice that literally every week of nightwave I see posts saying “this is so stupid, why do I have to (insert challenge player doesn’t want to complete)” so I was wondering, what is acceptable? What challenges are okay? Because while there’s been challenges I don’t like, I’ll simply not do them. So what challenges are left? Just simple quests like shooting or melee kills? I’m curious what type of quests you’d like to replace all the ones the community is complaining about.

I don't think you'll get any clear pattern regarding acceptability, except that people don't like change and resent any attempt to introduce something new. A few times I've started the week cursing about some of the challenges, only to find that they were actually quite easy, and the activity/content it introduced was actually quite fun.

I still find fishing and mining a bit pointless though, despite loving survival/farming type games.

[-CdG-Zilchy]

Just now, (PS4)Zero_029 said:

All good ideas. The only issue is the filthy hard challenges. How much standing would you reward? If it's more than say the "WITH SOME EFFORT" challenges then there will be no end to the salt. "Unfair Advantage", "Gating off Content" etc posts...
I know there is a tiny sub section of the community that would love those challenges. But once again we must ask ourselves...are such challenges healthy for the game overall?

 

This is something that has BOGGLED my mind throughout Season 1.
Newbies can only handle so much of Season 1's badly designed challenges. So why would DE not front load the rank ups with creds?
Hell ALL Seasons should have the currencies be more plentiful up front. As that ensures new players can access the rewards/content designed for them.
Should be Creds every other rank up with small things like Forma packs, Endo (like 20k) mixed in until say rank 15. Then it should be pure veteran rewards: Kuva, Captura, Syandana, armor, emotes, Umbra Forma, etc.

As for your last point.
There is no pleasing everyone. It's a rough balance for devs to walk as well.
I completely see your point of view & trying to be objective I completely see why DE cannot implement those challenges.
In truth the "Unfair Advantage" complain is valid. With "seasons" like this those we'll call them "veteran only" challenges would add up far too quickly and we'd soon see "pay to catch" features as people would ironically demand it. Which then makes it all pay to win (many other games with a form of battlepass ended up added this) which then invalidates the point of the vet challenges if you think about it.

I'm mixed on the whole: "Warframe is too easy" argument.
I've never known Warframe to be Dark Souls/Demon Souls/Bloodbourne hard to begin with. I've played it off & on for years. It use to be just...well...frustrating due to poor mechanics, bad rng, & repetitiveness if anything. Plus some Free to Play BS (Plat for revives & etc)
Yet that seems to be what veterans desire. Yet they also do not want to not be nerfed/weakened in any capacity, when those very games are tough because the player is so dramatically underpowered (for the most part) in comparison to the enemies.
I think over the years DE has just lost control of player power growth. Yet they need to help players feel more powerful with each major update to give some form of progression to them.
I know Steve has mentioned them wanting to retune/rework multi-shot & status. (Which would DRAMATICALLY reduce player power. Potentially to where even level 100 enemies become serious threats once more.)
I dunno...we're somewhat off topic when we get into power creep/difficulty discussion...

I think it is healthy for the game because it keeps the longer term players interested. Let's be realistic, most of these entitled twits will leave the game after rushing their MR and getting bored having been spoon fed the entire game due to their whining. Off to ruin another game with forum complaints, leaving the dedicated players with a lesser game, rinse and repeat. So offer something for the better players. Hell it doesn't have to be standing although I see no reason at all why it shouldn't be, I'm sick and fed up of this BS attitude of it being unfair cos they're new... So what? They never would've survived gaming in the 90s let me tell you, those games didn't offer apologies, just a nice big middle finger hoisted high in the air on your screen saying GAME OVER. I don't believe new players SHOULD have access to simply everything that a dedicated player of 5 years has. EARN IT, that's a foreign concept to most millenials it seems. 

[-CdG-Zilchy]

3 minutes ago, (PS4)Pauloluisx said:

Yes, I know, and he's right. But I dislike single-element damage and as such I use magnetic. All fair, but my original point referring to magnetic for enhanced sorties was "kill x enemies with y damage" can be good for players to try elements out and finding out what they are good for, on another discussion. Besides the commenter did not even state the obvious, which was indeed Toxin as I also stated in my reply, to state a hollow and unhelpful remark.

All good points.

[(PSN)Hikuro-93]

1 minute ago, AndyBeans said:

I don't think you'll get any clear pattern regarding acceptability, except that people don't like change and resent any attempt to introduce something new. A few times I've started the week cursing about some of the challenges, only to find that they were actually quite easy, and the activity/content it introduced was actually quite fun.

I still find fishing and mining a bit pointless though, despite loving survival/farming type games.

As someone who loves variety and the ocasional challenge, this is the saddest part for me. I hope they keep adding different challenges, even if that's unlikely due to all the mindless backlash... 😞

[-CdG-Zilchy]

4 minutes ago, Lutesque said:

Actually given that Rivens further increase effectiveness of weapons then New players are going to want those just as much.... literally anything with Gameplay implications is going to be unfair to new players.... all Items past Rank 30 should Cosmetic. Give those vets something to show and make everybody jealous. 

 

And that's the problem right there. Why should a brand new player just hop straight in and expect everything. You don't start a new job and demand to be the boss, GTFO, earn your way. I miss old games where there was no apology, no holding your hand, just GAME OVER on the screen.

 

[Tellakey]

The amount of strawman going on here on the part of those who like Nightwave...

[Bagadyr]

You can swap mods on ignis to get desired damage type and play quick round of SO. Its the easiest way to complete these challenges. 

When it comes to radiation dmg, using oberon ground also counts. 

[Lutesque]

2 minutes ago, Zilchy said:

And that's the problem right there. Why should a brand new player just hop straight in and expect everything. 

 

Because thats how it was designed. Its got poor gating, tutorials and uneven difficulty spikes so you need  everything... perhaps they should fix that so your Progression doesn't come crashing to a stop just because you don't have one Mod or Frame.... but then how will they get paid ? 

7 minutes ago, Zilchy said:

You don't start a new job and demand to be the boss, GTFO, earn your way.

Uhm.... do you really need soneone to explain the difference to you between a Job and a Game ?

8 minutes ago, Zilchy said:

I miss old games where there was no apology, no holding your hand, just GAME OVER on the screen.

Then go back and play them... nobody has an issue with you being stuck in the past as long as you leave Current games out of it. 

 

[-CdG-Zilchy]

10 minutes ago, Lutesque said:

Because thats how it was designed. Its got poor gating, tutorials and uneven difficulty spikes so you need  everything... perhaps they should fix that so your Progression doesn't come crashing to a stop just because you don't have one Mod or Frame.... but then how will they get paid ? 

Uhm.... do you really need soneone to explain the difference to you between a Job and a Game ?

Then go back and play them... nobody has an issue with you being stuck in the past as long as you leave Current games out of it. 

 

Except it wasn't designed like that, not at all. If you'd been there at the beginning you would know this. 

It's a reference, nothing more. And you know that.

I do play those as well but Warframe was never an easy game to get into and that's not a bad thing. It's a bad thing for some. They can go and find something more accessible to them. Stop ruining the game that we've enjoyed for years please.

[SneakyErvin]

The only 3 I'd prefer not seeing are "with friends or clan mates", "gild a modifiable weapon" and "use 3 forma".

The friends/clanny thing adds nothing to the challenge, it is just pointless fluff that realy doesnt change a thing. The 3 forma thing just feels punishing and counter productive. They give you 3 forma for going through the tiers then wants you to spend the same amount of forma, likely on nothing that you need atm. Same goes for gilding, we all get to a point where we've done all the gilding we want.

If anything, the forma and gild tasks should be retroactive if they are to stay, because they arent just gameplay things, they simply have you waste resources on nothing. This season I've lost as many forma as the tier rewards have given out and there are still weeks to go before nightwave is over. Luckily I had the option to use the forma on some things I needed atm, but I wont be doing those tasks again.

[(PSN)Zero_029]

1 hour ago, Zilchy said:

I think it is healthy for the game because it keeps the longer term players interested.

This is one of those "Both sides are right & wrong" arguments. Long term players are great for subscription games in particular. Free to Play games however tend to fluxuate with long term players as they are generally set up/strong enough/skilled enough/knowledgeable enough well enough to circumvent/avoid spending money on the game. Which is ironically bad for the game as it's revenue suffers.
Additionally, no matter how much new content a product provides, the long term players do & will eventually burn out & leave. Who will replace them if the new players feel unwelcome?
At the same time, without long term the players the game can quickly fall out of favor, and lack of word of mouth could cause it to dry up. Additionally, the long term players (hopefully) help usher in the new waves of players.

1 hour ago, Zilchy said:

Let's be realistic, most of these entitled twits will leave the game after rushing their MR and getting bored having been spoon fed the entire game due to their whining.

My experience has shown me otherwise. More players leave from frustration of being unable to progress and/or feeling perpetually unable to catch up to relevant content. When the track seems too long they choose to stop running it.

1 hour ago, Zilchy said:

Off to ruin another game with forum complaints, leaving the dedicated players with a lesser game,

Now you're just being bitter. I understand your frustration but many games (Warframe included) would not be where they are without the valid complaints they've received.

1 hour ago, Zilchy said:

Hell it doesn't have to be standing although I see no reason at all why it shouldn't be, I'm sick and fed up of this BS attitude of it being unfair cos they're new... So what?

Due the nature of the rewards being available for a limited time it does matter. As instead of things being a level playing field, it becomes perceived as "favoritism".
You may view it as "So What?" but unfair is still unfair.
That said. There are games that do exactly what you desire. But they also offer the ability to "Pay to Skip/Complete" such things to those who cannot complete such challenges.
If you're ok with that being an option then you might get your wish. Don't say that's unfair to those who bother to complete it. Playing Devil's Advocate: "So what if they pay to complete it?"
The "pay to progress" bs is often how many games manage to dodge this issue/avoid having to balance things too close to the line.
My gut tells me that you would not like a system where a new/casual player can just drop some materials or miniscule amount of plat to "clear" one of these Filthy Hard challenges you desire.

1 hour ago, Zilchy said:

They never would've survived gaming in the 90s let me tell you, those games didn't offer apologies, just a nice big middle finger hoisted high in the air on your screen saying GAME OVER.

True.
Society has also changed. Games like those shockingly do not fit in today's time crunched society.
Your comment reminds me of my days in Everquest and similar games. (Lord, how I forgot how much of a job those games became...)
Games that now a days clash heavily with modern schedules and struggle to keep their identity (as well as player retention) whilst trying to conform to modern conventions.

You can look at some failed modern games that tried to emulate that era & well...they couldn't keep players, retain new players, and eventually struggled to pull in new players. The dedicated players were there yes. But they can't keep a game afloat by themselves.

Long term players unfortunately just are not "enough". For DE to deliberately lock out an extreme majority of players from challenges would honestly not behoove them in the long run.
Hell as I've said many times. Nightwave already did this with Hydrolyst & Profit Taker, debatably the 1hr Kuva Survival, & it did not go well.
Wasn't a matter of folks wanting a hand out either. Folks literally could not do them. 

[BlizzardMamba]

I don't want to write much but I dislike most of the Nightwave chores. Nothing is 'challenging', sometimes it coincides with what I like to do and I don't mind but mostly It reminds me of how incredibly boring some of this game is. I don't want to revisit unrewarding, boring and/or old content. Before Nightwave I haven't been to the derelict in years and I remember why.

Next time pls. just let me spend money. The armor doesn't even really work with my color scheme.

Edit: Also considering Nightwave is obviously meant for newer players they should be able to clear it with relative ease.

Edited April 10, 2019 by BlizzardMamba

[Lutesque]

3 hours ago, Zilchy said:

Except it wasn't designed like that, not at all. If you'd been there at the beginning you would know this. 

LoL.... I was there at the beginning... we all were.

3 hours ago, Zilchy said:

It's a reference, nothing more. And you know that.

You bet I did and you should know better than to compare gaming to working.... some of us already do that and just want to have fun at the end of the day. 

3 hours ago, Zilchy said:

I do play those as well but Warframe was never an easy game to get into and that's not a bad thing. It's a bad thing for some. They can go and find something more accessible to them. Stop ruining the game that we've enjoyed for years please

 

Warframe isn't difficult to play.... its merely difficult to understand.... its cryptic... not Challenging.... this this a very big difference from how games used to work back then.... for starters the excessive padding and RPG Elements weren't rampant back then as they are now...

Once any game goes down this Route it literally cannot be difficult because all the developers do is adjust The enemies Health and Damage.... look no further Than the Wolf for a perfect example of that....

If you want a challenging experience then pick a game that doesn't use an Abstract Progression System....

[-Temp0-]

Everything that doesnt involve "friends" or "clanmates" is fine.

I absolutely NOT wasting extra time to get through 50 bodies friendlist and could not be bothered to pester people and bribe to play with me in this exact time in this exact mission for exact lenght. Yeah this concept is so stupid I cant even. Every activity or mission that cant physically be completed solo is trash.

Edited April 10, 2019 by -Temp0-

[FlusteredFerret]

6 hours ago, Zilchy said:

I understand everything you say and my own ideal of nightwave is to have easy, instructional learning curve challenges for new players like killing with different weapon elementals, opening lockers, doing certain mission types etc so that they learn. Then I'd have medium level for everyone to do, accessible for everyone but not too time consuming. Then I'd havea few elite challenges that are still accessible to new players WITH SOME EFFORT. And then I'd have just 1 or 2 filthy hard challenges per week for the ones who want to push the skill curve, I'm talking lvl 1000 enemies, endurance or time trial tests etc things that are actually difficult to complete, even for a pro player. 

I'd also award more wolf credits in earlier tiers and for the prestige ranks after 30 I'd award kuva since it's more likely that vets are going to reach that stage and it's literally the only thing vets will never say no to more of.

And you know what annoys me beyond measure? Like you cannot comprehend how angry it makes me... despite catering for everyone in that setup, despite making sure that new players can get enough standing for everything, people will STILL COMPLAIN. And you know why? Because the one or two really hard challenges per week are too hard for most players despite not even needing the standing to complete Nightwave, they will say it's "unfair" and "biased" towards vets because they can get more standing. The entitlement annoys me more than you can imagine. Regardless of how much you please them you can never also please the ones who actually want a challenge cos they'll cry about it because the truth is, they only care about themselves and f&#k everybody else.

And it's because of that attitude I've stopped caring about what they want or think. Warframe is becoming stupidly easy with every salty tear on the forums, they're ruining the game more and more.

Well said and I think you hit the nail on the head.

No matter what DE do, some players will ALWAYS find something to complain about. 

 

As I said on another thread, there are those who feel that if devs don't tailor games specifically to cater to them, then they've failed. Those that are too dense to realise DE are trying to cater to the widest audience possible, therefore there are always going to be things they don't like, or aren't suited to their play style...whatever.

 

Even after its been pointed out REPEATEDLY that we don't even need to do all the challenges to hit max rank in the time allotted.

 

Just falls on deaf ears.

 

Guess some people just live to create drama...

 

Edited April 10, 2019 by FlusteredFerret