RIP Hydroid

[DerGreif2]

19 hours ago, Lutesque said:

RIP Hydroid ? 

Is this the same Hydroid that can become invincible and Drowns level 140 Bombards in 14 Seconds ? 

If not then I agree.

What a nice scenario you have here... would be a shame if the missions where different...

 

Hydroid is played because of loot... that it. Same with Nekros.

[TARINunit9]

2 hours ago, Softballbryan said:

Khora is very good... she controls the battlefield and has good damage... she has saved many a sortie in my experience...

4 hours ago, Acersecomic said:

You're not very good if you think Khora is not very good.

She is insane. Her 1 kills even armored lvl 160 corrupted gunners in a few casts, fodder just gets wiped out, her 2 is nice CC that groups enemies for her 1 to scale up really fast, her 3 is ookeeeyish, her 4 is just utter domination, nothing gets away from its crazy range, resulting in safety for Khora and her allies.

Khora is mad, yo. Almost easy mode. Just because she isn't Limbo of CC or Saryn of DPS doesn't make her not good. Khora is a beast and you should give her more attention, if only to dispel your delusions about her. No, you didn't test her extensively or enough, if you did you'd know how good she really is.

Let me put it this way: the Khora on our team in the Sortie Defense last night (Eximus Stronghold, for those of you who didn't do it) was not exactly proving you two correct. Her Whipclaw was taking 2 to 3 casts to kill level 100 Heavy Gunners, her Strangledome was nowhere near big enough to control the entire battlefield, and her Ensnare wasn't any more amazing. She was pulling her weight for the first nine waves, but no more than that, and once the Nullies appeared on wave 10 they shut her down almost entirely (she and I were stuck spamming ground slam on the Nullifier + Ancient Healer pairs so the rest of our team could get rid of the Bombards with Arca Plasmors)

Am I being negative? Yes, but in the world of science claims require evidence

I'll concede she's not bad, but you have a long way to go to convince me she's any better than average. Boilerplate. Run of the mill. More powerful than a Frost with Ice Wave Impedance

Edited April 11, 2019 by TARINunit9

[(PSN)Onder6099]

49 minutes ago, Oreades said:

Well if they're killed by strangledome then they where killed while being held by strangledome and should be effected by the mods added drop percentage.

I will kill same enemy with 5 Strangledomes, I will get 1x drop only, not 5x drop (if I overlooked 65% chance), right?

[Softballbryan]

11 minutes ago, TARINunit9 said:

Let me put it this way: the Khora on our team in the Sortie Defense last night (Eximus Stronghold, for those of you who didn't do it) was not exactly proving you two correct. Her Whipclaw was taking 2 to 3 casts to kill level 100 Heavy Gunners, her Strangledome was nowhere near big enough to control the entire battlefield, and her Ensnare wasn't any more amazing. She was pulling her weight for the first nine waves, but no more than that, and once the Nullies appeared on wave 10 they shut her down almost entirely (she and I were stuck spamming ground slam on the Nullifier + Ancient Healer pairs so the rest of our team could get rid of the Bombards with Arca Plasmors)

Am I being negative? Yes, but in the world of science claims require evidence

I'll concede she's not bad, but you have a long way to go to convince me she's any better than average. Boilerplate. Run of the mill. More powerful than a Frost with Ice Wave Impedance

Interesting, both runs of the final sortie saw my Khora keep the  Target alive as her 3 kept it healthy. Her 4 kept the field under control so that others around me had time to destroy the enemy. Her 2 grouped enemies so that we could provide damage and assist Nidus as he finished them off. She proved herself adequate in battle at that level for me last night. I have plenty of evidence from my past missions as well. Just her ability to stop the enemy while rezzing Tenno alone....

Edited April 11, 2019 by Softballbryan

[TheGrimCorsair]

46 minutes ago, DerGreif2 said:

What a nice scenario you have here... would be a shame if the missions where different...

 

Hydroid is played because of loot... that it. Same with Nekros.

Just by baddies like you. 😄

[TARINunit9]

Just now, Softballbryan said:

Interesting, both runs of the final sortie saw my Khora keep the  Target alive as her 3 kept it healthy. Het 4 kept the field under control so that others around me had time to destroy the enemy. Her 2 grouped enemies so that we could provide damage and assist Nidus as he finish them off. She proved yourself adequate in battle at that level for me last night. I have plenty of evidence from my past missions as well. Just her ability to stop the enemy while rezzing Tenno alone....

I've got mixed feelings on what her 4 was doing for us, because as I said she WAS pulling her weight. For context we were backed up into that corner where Interception tower C was, so the enemies were coming at us from two different floors. Her 4 could easily lock one down and let us shoot the other. And her 3 was NOT cutting it against Fusion Moas, I am sorry to say, we had to use a Trin instead

[Acersecomic]

45 minutes ago, TARINunit9 said:

Let me put it this way: the Khora on our team in the Sortie Defense last night (Eximus Stronghold, for those of you who didn't do it) was not exactly proving you two correct. Her Whipclaw was taking 2 to 3 casts to kill level 100 Heavy Gunners, her Strangledome was nowhere near big enough to control the entire battlefield, and her Ensnare wasn't any more amazing. She was pulling her weight for the first nine waves, but no more than that, and once the Nullies appeared on wave 10 they shut her down almost entirely (she and I were stuck spamming ground slam on the Nullifier + Ancient Healer pairs so the rest of our team could get rid of the Bombards with Arca Plasmors)

Am I being negative? Yes, but in the world of science claims require evidence

I'll concede she's not bad, but you have a long way to go to convince me she's any better than average. Boilerplate. Run of the mill. More powerful than a Frost with Ice Wave Impedance

Uh wow, nullies and ancient healers, yes, because other abilities work so well on them hahahhaa. Get a grip, man.

And do tell me of other frames that have damaging abilities that can rip apart high level enemies with their 1st ability, not just one but multiple in a more than adequate aoe, an ability that can also be spammed due to low cost and speed of casting, as well as being able to scale intensly with both an augment and melee rivens.

Khora is amaizing. Even my 40% strength build can wreck sht.

Do not call yourself on science when citing second-hand random sources, science feels ashamed.

P.S. Nullies are very easy to spot, that's why you have high firerate weapons to pop the bubbles. A frame is not just its abilities, but the player as well.

[Oreades]

1 hour ago, (PS4)Onder6099 said:

I will kill same enemy with 5 Strangledomes, I will get 1x drop only, not 5x drop (if I overlooked 65% chance), right?

If DE set everything up correctly only one Khora would actually effect the drop so killing an enemy attached to multiple strangledomes should be like killing an enemy attached to a single strangledome.

That said the tried and true Nekros desecrate should still work on the bodies for additional chances.  

Edited April 11, 2019 by Oreades

[Xzorn]

21 hours ago, Lutesque said:

RIP Hydroid ? 

Is this the same Hydroid that can become invincible and Drowns level 140 Bombards in 14 Seconds ?

 

Naw, it's the one that can become invincible and drown lvl 1,400 Bombards.

....this game has gotten so weird when something that scales infinite is just meh.

Octavia going lvl 2,000 Solo; It's Thursday lets nerf Ember.

[TARINunit9]

1 hour ago, Acersecomic said:

And do tell me of other frames that have damaging abilities that can rip apart high level enemies with their 1st ability, not just one but multiple in a more than adequate aoe, an ability that can also be spammed due to low cost and speed of casting, as well as being able to scale intensly with both an augment and melee rivens.

Garuda's 4, Saryn's 1, a theoretical bugfixed version of Frost's 4, Excal's 4 w/ augment, Volt's 4, Nova's 2, Mesa's 4, Nidus's 1, Ash's 1 and 4, Inaros's 1 to an extent. Several of these are better than Khora at dealing with Ancient Healers, and another group of several of these are significantly less screwed than Khora when the Nullies show up

I am not convinced Khora is anything more than "adequate". You're going to have to throw more than "git gud" at me

[Lutesque]

5 hours ago, DerGreif2 said:

What a nice scenario you have here... would be a shame if the missions where different...

 

Hydroid is played because of loot... that it. Same with Nekros.

Exactly... and the bulk of missions in War frame is all about that loot.... Pretty common scenario I would say.

[(NSW)Evilpricetag]

His 1 remains in effect against nullifying unless they nullify him directly. Destroying bubbles and cci'ng all day. 

[Strikerays]

Will DE make him a rework or at least a little change on his 3, 2 and how str scales on his 4?

[aswitz87]

10 hours ago, DerGreif2 said:

What a nice scenario you have here... would be a shame if the missions where different...

 

Hydroid is played because of loot... that it. Same with Nekros.

His prime is a pirate! What other reason does one need?!

Oh and looks great, and has decent kit (artillery works well up into the low hundreds) and does have the added bonus of extra loot.

[BlindStalker]

16 hours ago, z3us32610 said:

They recently patched the Nekros + Hydroid exploit. It says in the patch notes "... the dead can only give so much!" So unless they forgot to patch the same thing with Khora's new Augment, it seems each corpse will only yield one extra drop.

Wasn't that only the Chesa Kubrow's augment 'Retrieve' that got patched like that?

Quickly reading off the wiki it says 'Update 24.6 - Chesa's new Retrieve functionality can no longer stack with Des ecrate and other looting Augments (Pilferdroid/Ore Gaze). This was creating some unintended double dips from a single corpse - the dead can only give so much!'

So I think Hydroid and Nekros can still stack. The big question I'm wondering though is, can Khora's augment steal from the silver grove spectres? I hope DE remembered that, because that was the reason why Chesa's augment got fixed in the first place. I hope they just decided yes or no for Khora's augment and didn't forget about the issues caused by Chesa in the first place.I'd rather know now, then later.

Edited April 12, 2019 by BlindStalker

[Lutesque]

9 hours ago, Xzorn said:

Octavia going lvl 2,000 Solo; It's Thursday lets nerf Ember.

Oh god... poor Ember.... what did she do wrong ? Nothing.... yet they knee capped her anyway... now Itzal is next on the chopping block.

[HorridaMessor]

Meh, still not gonna bother to change from my Despoil Nekros for loot faming

[Cubewano]

11 hours ago, Xzorn said:

 

Naw, it's the one that can become invincible and drown lvl 1,400 Bombards.

....this game has gotten so weird when something that scales infinite is just meh.

Octavia going lvl 2,000 Solo; It's Thursday lets nerf Ember.

Strange how? This game doesn't revolve around that level of content, and thus things that make that level of content broken don't matter. 

Ember caused more impairment to content that people actually played, which is why she got attention.

[Xzorn]

15 minutes ago, Cubewano said:

Strange how? This game doesn't revolve around that level of content, and thus things that make that level of content broken don't matter. 

Ember caused more impairment to content that people actually played, which is why she got attention.

 

You mean beside the fundamental flaw in something that scales forever in an RPG-style game which removes the need for progression. ie Covert Lethality. Literally 1 mod on any dagger and enemies of any level die. Why rank or use other mods? Why get a better dagger? Things like that remove the purpose of character building.

Warframe has regressed over the years in attempts to hide these horrid design choices by making it all about killing hordes of enemies with no thought and no repercussions in these 5 minute spam repeatedly missions that are more about time investment than anything else and it's not even fun time investment.

When you make something do X damage you're cutting off the game's future progress though new gear, harder enemies, pretty much everything... Unless of course you make those new enemies immune to such effects which just shines a spotlight on the dumb design decision that's been made.

In reality the level of enemies has become irrelevant in Warframe. Lvl 50, Lvl 300, lvl 2,000. Doesn't matter because we can defeat them thanks to those poor design choices which DE hides from players. The content is just baited. It has nothing to do with the core game. It's just what DE uses to get players to avoid seeing those flaws. The genius of it all is they've convinced players to grind of these things to get more powerful for an end result of nothing.

[(PSN)Onder6099]

12 hours ago, Oreades said:

If DE set everything up correctly only one Khora would actually effect the drop so killing an enemy attached to multiple strangledomes should be like killing an enemy attached to a single strangledome.

That said the tried and true Nekros desecrate should still work on the bodies for additional chances.  

Nvm, I will test it by myself.

As for Nekros, he is more for Survivals while Khora for Defense. With Khora I will go with Hydroid or Ivara, imagine Ivara standing in the middle of Strangledome, casting Cloak arrow on Allies and Noise arrow under feet while in Prowl.

[Cubewano]

1 hour ago, Xzorn said:

 

You mean beside the fundamental flaw in something that scales forever in an RPG-style game which removes the need for progression. ie Covert Lethality. Literally 1 mod on any dagger and enemies of any level die. Why rank or use other mods? Why get a better dagger? Things like that remove the purpose of character building.

Warframe has regressed over the years in attempts to hide these horrid design choices by making it all about killing hordes of enemies with no thought and no repercussions in these 5 minute spam repeatedly missions that are more about time investment than anything else and it's not even fun time investment.

When you make something do X damage you're cutting off the game's future progress though new gear, harder enemies, pretty much everything... Unless of course you make those new enemies immune to such effects which just shines a spotlight on the dumb design decision that's been made.

In reality the level of enemies has become irrelevant in Warframe. Lvl 50, Lvl 300, lvl 2,000. Doesn't matter because we can defeat them thanks to those poor design choices which DE hides from players. The content is just baited. It has nothing to do with the core game. It's just what DE uses to get players to avoid seeing those flaws. The genius of it all is they've convinced players to grind of these things to get more powerful for an end result of nothing.

Because this is a horde based game, and that's a single target mod. Large scale combat games generally don't take a great deal of precedence in making each enemy durable, it's dealing with the quantity that is typically the challenge, with most enemies being a pushover individually. There's a reason still nobody uses daggers, and Ash, the frame that combos perfectly with the mod is barely mid tier in value. 

That said yes this game has regressed in complex player enemy interactions for general combat, it isn't remotely tied to something so passable as cover lethality, or really any single target tools, but it has regressed all the same. Risk is fleeting, and enemy threat is at an all time low, with entire hordes dying well before they're even in eye shot these days. 

 

 

 

[Acersecomic]

16 hours ago, TARINunit9 said:

Garuda's 4, Saryn's 1, a theoretical bugfixed version of Frost's 4, Excal's 4 w/ augment, Volt's 4, Nova's 2, Mesa's 4, Nidus's 1, Ash's 1 and 4, Inaros's 1 to an extent. Several of these are better than Khora at dealing with Ancient Healers, and another group of several of these are significantly less screwed than Khora when the Nullies show up

I am not convinced Khora is anything more than "adequate". You're going to have to throw more than "git gud" at me

Actually I don't throw git gud at anyone. That phrase and mentality is straight up retarded. Garuda's 4 is shayte unless you pair it with extremely high alphas or low level enemies, Saryn is in a league of her own, Frost's 4 stops being a wipe early in the hundreds, you cannot compare exalted weapons to a simple cast ability, Nova's 2 is solid no complaints there (except you can't influence the ability to Khora's degree, Mesa's 4 is in the same category as Excal, Ash's 1 strips armor, it does not do 100.000 plus damage on a cast, Inaros's 1 still requires you to pair it with a weapon. All of this applies to all other examples.

Khora's 1 can and shouldbe applied to abilities like Ember's 1, Excal's, Volt's 1 etc, be ause they are mechanicaly same. Khora still outdos these by a mile and more because of how it scales, how it works, its augment etc. But you know what Khora can do? Whipclaw the bubble drone 😉

 

[Oreades]

7 hours ago, (PS4)Onder6099 said:

Nvm, I will test it by myself.

As for Nekros, he is more for Survivals while Khora for Defense. With Khora I will go with Hydroid or Ivara, imagine Ivara standing in the middle of Strangledome, casting Cloak arrow on Allies and Noise arrow under feet while in Prowl.

I'd like to imagine Ivara being useful or more I'd love to imagine people letting Ivara Prowl things but it's really hard to imagine people being patient enough to let her prowl anything with the fast paced nature of Warframe. 

It still perplexes me why they nerfed prowl to a single Ivara and then acted like they where doing Ivara a favor and that now she would be accepted into loot groups.... When the only place people would really put up with prowls slow return rate was when the group was four Ivaras slowcrawling a level. lol

[TARINunit9]

3 hours ago, Acersecomic said:

Khora's 1 can and shouldbe applied to abilities like Ember's 1, Excal's, Volt's 1 etc, be ause they are mechanicaly same. Khora still outdos these by a mile and more because of how it scales, how it works, its augment etc. But you know what Khora can do? Whipclaw the bubble drone 😉

 

The first part I agree with, because Ember's 1 is just so terrible, and Frost's 1 and Volt's 1 are only good for telling an enemy to shut up while you finish reloading. The last part, let me let you in on a secret: that's not unique to Khora. Many frame abilities can damage Nullie drones, and many more can pop Nullie bubbles. Propperly spaced, a Valkyr Hysteria slide attack will take Nullie bubbles down nicely. Khora is only unique in that she can aim it better

[Xzorn]

7 hours ago, Cubewano said:

Because this is a horde based game, and that's a single target mod. Large scale combat games generally don't take a great deal of precedence in making each enemy durable, it's dealing with the quantity that is typically the challenge, with most enemies being a pushover individually. There's a reason still nobody uses daggers, and Ash, the frame that combos perfectly with the mod is barely mid tier in value. 

That said yes this game has regressed in complex player enemy interactions for general combat, it isn't remotely tied to something so passable as cover lethality, or really any single target tools, but it has regressed all the same. Risk is fleeting, and enemy threat is at an all time low, with entire hordes dying well before they're even in eye shot these days.

 

The game wasn't always a horde shooter and it's becoming more of a big boss anime fighter at this point.

You're arguing how the game is played which varies heavily. I'm arguing how the game is designed.

Players don't use single target instant kills because AoE instant kills work as enemy opposition never came up to match player performance. If it had, you would see more value in those things and how broken their design truly is. You said "This game doesn't revolve around that level of content " where I propose the level range has no meaning. You're basing comparison on the readily available level range. What I'm saying is we have the tools to deal with the highest level enemies this game can produce.  Roll credits.

DE is just hiding this fact through massive time sinks. If we could jump to lvl 9,999 right away it would be easy to convict them of such poor design. Instead they've resorted to cheating their own rule book with immunity because the game's core mechanics no longer do their job.