[DE response inside] Please revert Emissive Texture changes introduced in U24.7.0

[NightmareT12]

UPDATE: Check Rebecca's post here.

UPDATE #2: Check my post here so you can understand what was tried to be accomplished and how this all works.

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ORIGINAL POST:

The change introduced in Update 24.7.0 has absolutely destroyed the look of the Warframes, regardless of whether you use Default colors or Custom colors.

The way the emissive changes have been introduced make the emissive textures have some kind of "two layers", so the light gets amplified, meaning the light feels much more "dilluted" and looks worse all in all, unless you put in a very dark color.

But the true disaster itself is on Default colors. (Now before anyone asks why, I think of Warframe's art design pretty highly and I am absolutely in love with it -- Primes being at the top of it, where the major deciding factor on buying Prime Access is simply because of how good these are designed).

So I read the patch notes and I was afraid. But I logged in, and it was even worse:

The secondary is somehow white always, it wasn't even taken into account by the defaults, nor respected the original artist intention.

If you want a better comparative, this was Equinox Prime merely 10 hours ago:

Now, both defaults:

Now, both selected energy color (same as "Before" pic, using Equinox's energy from Tenno II, which is also Prime default):

You should be able to see the extra "light" making it look extra blocky. It's even worse on other frames like Valkyr or Banshee. I cannot at all recreate the previous look. At all.

I'm going to go ahead and guess that because most people will want their custom colors (always the custom colors first), and because this has already gone through, I will be out of luck. But this single, small change has absolutely invalidated all my Prime Access purchases, all my Platinum purchases and one of my core reasons to come and to keep up with this game for so long.

I cannot see a single way to fix this beyond a revert, because no matter the tweaks, it's not possible to make the textures look good without reverting them, or having to take an incredible patience to touch up the whole Warframe library (how many frames do we have between each Prime and each base, 50-60?)

But damn, now I can't look at a single Warframe without thinking "This is wrong".

I know you guys did this out of pure good will, but as that song goes, the road to hell is paved with good intentions.

Sorry if that sounds extra frustrated to anyone, but after the absolute hopelessness that you can feel when you see bugs piling up and never being fixed, and then seeing what one of your favorite aspects of Warframe getting what one considers a bad change that will most likely stay, it's pretty hard to swallow.

Edited April 15, 2019 by NightmareT12
Changed title post merge

[Prexades]

I absolutely agree. The changes  are bad and seriously messing up color choices. It even defeats the purpose of a primary and secondary color, as the colors just blend together to form a new primary color. It also messes with un-forma-ed frames, as it blends the users selected color with a default white.

I really, really prefer the system back as it was before this hotfix.

[WhiteMarker]

U25.7?
Did you come back from the future?

[AVAQ]

Basically i have the Limbo Limina skin, but i didnt forma him, so i dont have access to the secondary energy. This update made it so his dangling bits are secondary energy only, and im forced to forma if i want to properly fashion a skin i paid 225p (well 150p) for.

 

As you can see, i put the purple energy everywhere, but the dangly bits insist on being blue.

 

A simple solution to all of this would probably be simply removing the secondary energy being locked behind a forma. It was stupid in the first place imo to set it like that.

Edited April 10, 2019 by AVAQ

[NightmareT12]

3 minutes ago, WhiteMarker said:

U25.7?
Did you come back from the future?

Thanks for pointing it out, I totally did.

PS: Teshin was the dad all along.

[Prexades]

Agreed, the change should be reverted ASAP.

[Casardis]

Not only is it really weird and inconsistent, sometimes the Secondary almost completely overtakes the primary.

 

EDIT: Bonus, even pets are bugged by this change.

Edited April 10, 2019 by Casardis

[(XBOX)YoungGunn82]

OOF. Big oops there. Hope they fix it before it comes to console. Thanks for posting @NightmareT12

[Valiant]

Slightly confused by all this secondary emissive colour stuff. Does it affect the glow or what?

Properly scratching my head here.

[Casardis]

Just now, Valiant said:

Slightly confused by all this secondary emissive colour stuff. Does it affect the glow or what?

Properly scratching my head here.

When you forma a weapon or WF, you get accessed to a "secondary energy color" customization, which affects how the emissive. At launch, it only affected syandanas, melee weapon trails, WF powers and projectile trails. However, recent update made it so it affects even the energy dots on WF and weapons (as seen in my pictures above).

However, there's lots of bugs and inconsistencies with it right now, which you can see illustrated both by OP and other people in this topic.

[NightmareT12]

5 minutes ago, Valiant said:

Slightly confused by all this secondary emissive colour stuff. Does it affect the glow or what?

Properly scratching my head here.

To add the changes they've tampered all the emissive textures, so they messed up very big. Now there's an emissive that feel like an aura and one that's like a source light. In result the emissive looks less good, more blocky, less flowing.

Honestly, since everything was designed on the old system it'd hard to make it look good, and it was my understanding that the Secondary Energy was meant more for the likes of the Misa Prime Syandana, which is what was requested for, instead of for everything, which means tampering with the Art design of God knows how many items -> Unfeasible to make it look good on everything old, only on new items.

Honestly my take would be to revert the changes to how they were, not even think of redoing this again, and encourage DE to add more effects on coming Primes and Warframes, as well as seeing what other old stuff can be updated so it's colored either independently (Trinity's visor) or with a better thought mixing process (Octavia's rotating disc thing). Let's not break the designs even more please.

Edited April 10, 2019 by NightmareT12

[(XBOX)YoungGunn82]

@NightmareT12

 

Steve just Tweeted about it. Thank goodness. Fixed tomorrow. 

[Casardis]

Just now, (XB1)RDeschain82 said:

Steve just Tweeted about it. Thank goodness. Fixed tomorrow. 

Just saw it as well. Good news 😆

[NightmareT12]

Unfortunately, that isn't going to fix my issues with this new system. Guess Fashionframe was all it took to take me out of Warframe, welp 😐

[Casardis]

1 minute ago, NightmareT12 said:

Unfortunately, that isn't going to fix my issues with this new system. Guess Fashionframe was all it took to take me out of Warframe, welp 😐

Unless the fix makes it so that using the default colors come back to how it was before.

[Issxi]

Now instead of having my frame's energy one color and my abilities another they are all grossly mixed together. Thanks for ruining my fashion frame. This should've been an Appearance toggle option, not a forced change. Please change it back.

[Issxi]

I finally had default Saryn with her purple energy emissives and her toxic green abilities, something I always wanted. Now it looks terrible. Terrible change. 0/10.

[(XBOX)YoungGunn82]

20 minutes ago, NightmareT12 said:

Unfortunately, that isn't going to fix my issues with this new system. Guess Fashionframe was all it took to take me out of Warframe, welp 😐

Yeah ..maybe shoot a tweet at him. @[DE]Steve maybe try and ping him here. I dunno

Edited April 10, 2019 by (XB1)RDeschain82

[Loza03]

1 hour ago, AVAQ said:

Basically i have the Limbo Limina skin, but i didnt forma him, so i dont have access to the secondary energy. This update made it so his dangling bits are secondary energy only, and im forced to forma if i want to properly fashion a skin i paid 225p (well 150p) for.

 

As you can see, i put the purple energy everywhere, but the dangly bits insist on being blue.

 

A simple solution to all of this would probably be simply removing the secondary energy being locked behind a forma. It was stupid in the first place imo to set it like that.

I just put my forma on him.

insofar as I can tell, it's bugged. It doesn't seem to care what energy colour you put on him period.

[Altagraive]

Well you can just set primary and secondary colors the same and it would be like before no?

[NightmareT12]

4 hours ago, Altagraive said:

Well you can just set primary and secondary colors the same and it would be like before no?

This is not how it works. Please, I want people to understand that what they did was change the single texture we had before for 2 new shaders that are IMPOSSIBLE NO MATTER THE COMBINATION to revert. Selecting twice the same value DOES NOT replicate the earlier effect, it amplifies it. Resetting to default DOES NOT replicate the older effect, it washes out. In both instances, the texture loses out.

The new and shiny toy simply does not allow for the old system, period. Either it's reverted, or it is the biggest blow to some people who will simply, and with reason, dislike the change.

[-Tilter-]

1 hour ago, NightmareT12 said:

This is not how it works. Please, I want people to understand that what they did was change the single texture we had before for 2 new shaders that are IMPOSSIBLE NO MATTER THE COMBINATION to revert. Selecting twice the same value DOES NOT replicate the earlier effect, it amplifies it. Resetting to default DOES NOT replicate the older effect, it washes out. In both instances, the texture loses out.

The new and shiny toy simply does not allow for the old system, period. Either it's reverted, or it is the biggest blow to some people who will simply, and with reason, dislike the change.

Agreed, a lot of ignorance is going around this issue. I also posted about this in greater detail and most people just laughed me off and gave me the norm of "just don't use it" and sarcastic remarks such as "literally unplayable" as if that will help fix all the issues this pointless feature nobody asked for brought up. It's not just the horrible mixing and blending, it's also making certain things brighter and in turn lower res because the lights become pixelated, I've noticed certain lights simply not working now such as the 4 "eyes" on Chorma Prime's helmet, and 2 lights on Skiajati's pommel (who knows how many others). Orbiters lights are really washed out and white and you can't even change it due to secondary energy not being available.. It's a mess, I suggested it be removed and re-added if it ever gets fixed, but I guess that's just funny to everyone.. Yikes

[Valiant]

Hmm get the whole secondary energy thing. But the emissive? Is it meant to glow only in the colour you've selected or what? What's it only affect?

Still none the wiser xD as I noticed the energy colour would alter somewhat and then when I used abilities they'd change into something else entirely, usually not a nice combo. Wish we could preview this stuff without needing to go to the sim everytime.

Honestly, all I ever wanted was negative colours. But all I've really noticed is how effects look less intense or vibrant.

[NightmareT12]

@Casardis Unfortunately since my biggest issue is that with the change, beyond the obvious extra layer of work that represents having to retouch every Warframe energy color so it looks faithful to how it was designed, is that the texture will look "diluted". It looks less sci-fi and more like a very bright LED now, which means that:

a) It will look more amplified, no matter what.

b) I'll never be able to make my frames look like they've done for the last 5 and a half years.

I never wanted Dual Energy outside of certain elements like Misa and Uru Prime (or how well implemented it was on Ember and Revenant, really), mainly because I was very conscious of the absolute level of change it would mean to all the weapons and frames.

I honestly don't know what to say. Between the bugs listed in the OP (and that you know as well as me), the progressive carelessness at adding certain changes and stuff (heiya, Mesa Prime butt. Heiya, forgotten Operator suit changes!), I really don't know what to say or how to say it properly. Maybe my best bet is the word "disappointed", but IDK. I miss 2013-2015 Warframe.

@Valiant To put it simply and thanks to my love to BIONICLE I can make an easy comparision. If emissives used to look like this commercial Toa Vakama eye:

Now, due the halo effect, independently of the original emissive shape, it looks more like:

But more washed out no matter what.

You can easily see this in my Equinox pictures: This was before, this is after. Check the area where the neck connects to the body, or the emissives at the horns, you'll see easily: What was properly defined previously now can't be anymore.

Additionally, because of the light, it's all super pixelated. And on top of all of these, there's the intended color issue.

So yep. It has both, destroyed the cool biomechanical look all Warframes had, and at the same time it has made the textures look too flat and all in all, bad quality and out of place.

Edited April 11, 2019 by NightmareT12

[RX-3DR]

8 hours ago, Altagraive said:

Well you can just set primary and secondary colors the same and it would be like before no?

With the recent update, it now blends both your Primary and Secondary color in most cases. Originally, you could have blue fire over purple lights. Now, it will just blend both colors, giving you a bluish purple with very little distinction between the purple and blue. This effectively reverts the game to before Secondary color was even implemented in many cases, resulting in 1 step forward, 1 step backwards.

With Primary Red and Secondary Yellow, the current update changed them to just blends into orange and paints it over most of your energy colors. The previous update allowed you to have them quite distinctly separate as seen in the image on the right.

Spoiler

Edited April 11, 2019 by RX-3DR