[DE response inside] Please revert Emissive Texture changes introduced in U24.7.0

[Kainosh]

Well.....

 

I do NOT like any of recent energy VFX changes.  

• Melee VFX became obstructive.  It is not Transparent enough.  Energy trails create bright veil, covering whole screen.  Im forced to use really dark, dim colors to see sht.
• Elemental Procs, that should NEVER be customisable, can be recolored now.  I do not approve.
• 2 Energy colors just make all this even worse.

 

Its a foken color mess now.   Even if i play solo, my own Procs use Energy color.   And playing with others means i have to suffer their "fashion" being spread everywhere, with every single attack of theirs turning enemies into rainbows.

Naaaah....I do not like it at all. 

[Valiant]

Hmm think I get it a bit more. Well hopefully Steve looks at it properly.

Reminds me of when we ditched the Nvidia particle system and went to DE's own lackluster one with custom colours, took ages for it to stop looking to flat, dull and boring. It's not as it used to be but better than it once was.

[Altagraive]

Well if you posted some screenshots it would clarify things.

I for one love new system and don't want the old one back.

 

Hol up apparently, there was some interim update, which I missed completely.

I'm sorry it's not working for you, but I still love new system, it lets me make some beautiful colors.

Edited April 11, 2019 by Altagraive

[NightmareT12]

2 hours ago, Altagraive said:

Well if you posted some screenshots it would clarify things.

I for one love new system and don't want the old one back.

 

Hol up apparently, there was some interim update, which I missed completely.

I'm sorry it's not working for you, but I still love new system, it lets me make some beautiful colors.

Hey, more power to you! In reality they could have made this in a varying number of ways where every user would be satisfied, it's just they didn't decide on a good course of action IMHO.

We'll see if, how and when they decide to change and work further on this, because it's pretty obvious they need to. I just hope it's not as ill fated as some other changes that went through. Don't have a doubt any new release will look awesome though.

Edited April 11, 2019 by NightmareT12

[Prexades]

It still looks bad after this hotfix. Washed out and blended colors. The look was superior before yesterdays update.

[Prexades]

Still bad after the hotfix.

[NightmareT12]

5 minutes ago, Prexades said:

Still bad after the hotfix.

I agree that, while I appreciete the effort, it doesn't solve much unfortunately. I posted on the Hotfix thread trespassing these thoughts as well.

Seeing how long it takes them usually to work on certain changes or fix certain bugs because, definitely, they also need to work on new content or else, they're in deep trouble, and it's hard to juggle, I can't trust they'll be able to amass the whole change list. This is a complex system by itself on a single texture (They still have an issue where the engine doesn't translate properly the bloom effect of the emissive into hexadecimal, so defaults mismatch between body and helmet or body and Syandana), so imagine introducing a second factor to "White light + color" mix. It's a nightmare to go through the whole library.

So yeah, I'll go on undetermined hiatus for now. I can't really see a proper solution that doesn't pass by restoring the emissive system to how it was, plain and simple 😞

[shimmer.shine]

it's obvious that DE are trying to automate this new system by having the warframes and weapons automatically apply the new effects. It isn't working. You can't create hundreds of hand crafted items and then come in and try to automate a wide system change.

Edited April 11, 2019 by KatalystPrime

[Iswind]

Jup i dont like it before it was green now it looks turquoise !  Smal parts mixing the colors visual

[Arc5in]

14 hours ago, Prexades said:

Still bad after the hotfix.

 

14 hours ago, NightmareT12 said:

I agree that, while I appreciete the effort, it doesn't solve much unfortunately. I posted on the Hotfix thread trespassing these thoughts as well.

Seeing how long it takes them usually to work on certain changes or fix certain bugs because, definitely, they also need to work on new content or else, they're in deep trouble, and it's hard to juggle, I can't trust they'll be able to amass the whole change list. This is a complex system by itself on a single texture (They still have an issue where the engine doesn't translate properly the bloom effect of the emissive into hexadecimal, so defaults mismatch between body and helmet or body and Syandana), so imagine introducing a second factor to "White light + color" mix. It's a nightmare to go through the whole library.

So yeah, I'll go on undetermined hiatus for now. I can't really see a proper solution that doesn't pass by restoring the emissive system to how it was, plain and simple 😞

 

14 hours ago, KatalystPrime said:

it's obvious that DE are trying to automate this new system by having the warframes and weapons automatically apply the new effects. It isn't working. You can't create hundreds of hand crafted items and then come in and try to automate a wide system change.

One pretty good solution which has been suggested many times now is to add an opacity slider to secondary energy and have it default to zero opacity.

Personally I'm pretty upset that this secondary energy effects the appearance of non-forma's stuff. If it requires forma to adjust, then it should not effect appearance of non-forma'd stuff, at all. With non-forma'd frames and gear, we get washed out energy colors and no options to adjust it, we get reds that look pink and darkest greys that look nearly white, etc..

Adding opacity sliders and defaulting to zero opacity for secondary energy would address washed out colors on non-forma'd stuff and it would make default settings not change the appearance of carefully tweaked color schemes, while offering the legacy look for those who prefer it. It addresses most issues, while adding robustness and sacrificing nothing.

[Kainosh]

21 hours ago, Altagraive said:

but I still love new system, it lets me make some beautiful colors.

 

It is flexible and good and all.....and you can actually reproduce any colors that were used before.....

 

But i still do not like that it affects Elemental Proc colors on ENEMIES. 

It pains me that i cant proc normal Orange Fire if my weapon energy is Green or Blue.   And if my weapon is multielemental, then all of its procs are same in color. 

[iMessier57]

 

 

Phryke is also ruined.

[Vyrron_]

Right now the energy lights on most warframes end up looking like a mix of the primary and secondary colors, which not only looks terrible, but it also doesn't match the energy colors of armor, sigils and other attachments that use a single energy color.

Here's my Volt for example.

Spoiler

 

 

I had my energy colors set as blue and yellow. After the latest changes in Update 24.7 his emissives turned green, which doesn't match the armor's energy.

Same with Chroma.

Spoiler

 

 

Sometimes the energy colors aren't even consistent on the frames themselves. For example, Day and Night Equinox Prime have different energy colors, with the combined form having both.

Spoiler

 

 

Finally, the energy effects on some frames got messed up. Valkyr lost the pulsating effect on her face. Revenant's flares look way too bright.

Spoiler

 

 

No picture before the changes sadly, but it looked much better and the colors weren't getting mixed together like that.

 

In my opinion all energy effects should be reverted back to what they were like in Update 24.6. The energy lights should be determined only by the primary color, with the secondary only affecting abilities and special energy effects like the ones on Revenant, Ember and Nezha deluxe.

Edited April 12, 2019 by Ironv

[Iraetus]

I agree. My energy colors are a mess now with Excalibur Umbra, the upper half being blue and the bottom being yellow. 

[NightmareT12]

@Arc5in I read that! Unfortunately, the changes don't work that way: They completely replaced the single texture from before to a new dual system, so it's not a layer on top of another.

You can test this by selecting pure black on any emissive, since it turns them completely off. You will totally see the effect is not that of making it look like it used to.

Edited April 12, 2019 by NightmareT12

[Ragingwasabi]

in my case, since i use 2 of the same colours but different shades/saturations this new colour mixing is perfect. it lets u use a brighter, desaturated colour for the bright zones and a darker more saturated colour for the halos. this creates really bright emissives that dont look too dark or bright but too desaturated.

however there are still issues with primary and secondary colours being swapped. it looks like all laser weapons (like opticor, arca scisco) have the bright core of their beam take on secondary while the edge of the beam takes primary. shouldnt it be the ther way around?

and same with the emissives on a lot of guns like the corinth. the halo is taking on the primary colour.

Also please let attachments have 2 energy colours. some weapons have parts (nikana sheath, bow quivers) that use the attachment colours, so having this inconsistency ruins fashion for those weapons. 
sentinels are also missing dual energy colours feature

Edited April 12, 2019 by Ragingwasabi

[Vyrron_]

19 minutes ago, Ragingwasabi said:

in my case, since i use 2 of the same colours but different shades/saturations this new colour mixing is perfect. it lets u use a brighter, desaturated colour for the bright zones and a darker more saturated colour for the halos. this creates really bright emissives that dont look too dark or bright but too desaturated.

 

Sure, but then you miss out on all the beautiful ability effects you can get by using complementary colors. We shouldn't have to choose between decent-looking emissives and nice ability effects.

[Kainosh]

On 2019-04-11 at 12:06 PM, NightmareT12 said:

To put it simply and thanks to my love to BIONICLE I can make an easy comparision. If emissives used to look like this commercial Toa Vakama eye:



 

You can actually get that exact effect.   Use black/dark blue for "outlines" and bright green for middle.  That will make some abilities darker tho.

At least i were able to reproduce original Grineer orange energy like that.  Used red outline + orange middle (both same medium brightness not to overlap).  Looks as it used to.

 

 

Tho, you do need lots of Palettes if you want to do it.   Also, now "tenno" palettes need expansion.  Because each frame got 1 extra color.

 

[[DE]Rebecca]

Important information as a result of this feedback (lots of merged threads):

Right to the meat - we are reverting the Emissive Energy inheriting Secondary energy as of next Hotfix. The reason we added this was because we read player feedback indicating disappointment 'Secondary Energy' did nothing on the Warframe itself, so we tried to give it meaning. And now the meaning has swung too far the other way!

You can expect a way more in-depth colour customization to come soon - at least we're experimenting with something really wild. We will be working on giving you (Forma using players) even more options - 4 energy customization slots total. Primary and Secondary for the Warframe itself. Primary and Secondary for the Warframe's Abilities and Effects. This means your all-Red Ember could have Blue Fire. Your Green Saryn could have Orange Spores, etc. But - it's in the laboratory. Stay tuned for a Dev Workshop as we work on this. And if you don't use Forma, you won't be forced to. Your Secondary slots would just be the same as Primary, so nothing would force a Forma, etc.

[NightmareT12]

Damn it, thanks Rebecca. I'd appreciate if you could give some more insight into this:

3 minutes ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

Primary and Secondary for the Warframe itself.

Does that mean it will work like in the previous (24.6) update, or the intention is to have it like now, but improved? Because right now, the texture itself is precisely perhaps the biggest issue (halo, double the light, etc.).

[BiancaRoughfin]

3 minutes ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

Important information as a result of this feedback (lots of merged threads):

Right to the meat - we are reverting the Emissive Energy inheriting Secondary energy as of next Hotfix. The reason we added this was because we read player feedback indicating disappointment 'Secondary Energy' did nothing on the Warframe itself, so we tried to give it meaning. And now the meaning has swung too far the other way!

You can expect a way more in-depth colour customization to come soon - at least we're experimenting with something really wild. We will be working on giving you (Forma using players) even more options - 4 energy customization slots total. Primary and Secondary for the Warframe itself. Primary and Secondary for the Warframe's Abilities and Effects. This means your all-Red Ember could have Blue Fire. Your Green Saryn could have Orange Spores, etc. But - it's in the laboratory. Stay tuned for a Dev Workshop as we work on this. And if you don't use Forma, you won't be forced to. Your Secondary slots would just be the same as Primary, so nothing would force a Forma, etc.

I found the Two Color effects interesting on my Secondary and Melee only, as for Warframe its self, i didnt see it as interesting, it would have been cool if the Warframe`s energy color kept shifting between Energy 1 and 2 giving a degrading effect in between.

[xRufus7x]

8 minutes ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

 

While you guys are doing all this any chance we can get the option to color Warframes/Helmets and armor pieces separately. You guys have been really inconsistent about keeping metallics in the same color slots(Tennocon armor sets, Excalibur Onyx skin, Hulta armor set, Gazal armor set, Provvokk armor piece for examples of outliers)

Edited April 12, 2019 by xRufus7x

[Andvarja]

Definitely looking forward to having my primary color be the one that shows on my warframe again.  I don't mind if secondary adds some other effect to the frame, but outright replacing the primary for the lights on my frames (this was especially noticeable on my Mesa, everything was the bubblegum pink secondary color rather than the medium blue of my primary) was definitely too much - especially on frames which don't have a customizable secondary even unlocked.  Thanks 🙂

Though as @BiancaRoughfin mentions, I wouldn't mind if it could cycle between the two, either.

Edited April 12, 2019 by Andvarja

[ZanderWild]

5 minutes ago, xRufus7x said:

While you guys are doing all this any chance we can get the option to color Warframes/Helmets and armor pieces separately. You guys have been really inconsistent about keeping metallics in the same color slots(Tennocon armor sets, Excalibur Onyx skin, Hulta armor set, Gazal armor set, Provvokk armor piece for examples of outliers)

This please! I cant mix the tennocon 2018 armor with anything else or use rhinos vanguard helmet because gross yellow plastic or just uncolorable parts mixed with nice gold

[xRufus7x]

1 minute ago, ZanderWild said:

This please! I cant mix the tennocon 2018 armor with anything else or use rhinos vanguard helmet because gross yellow plastic or just uncolorable parts mixed with nice gold

Vanguard makes me particularly sad as it also needs PBR.