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NightmareT12

[DE response inside] Please revert Emissive Texture changes introduced in U24.7.0

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Just now, xRufus7x said:

Vanguard makes me particularly sad as it also needs PBR.

True that, feels like they just forgot about it since its been so long without any pbr for it

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17 minutes ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

Important information as a result of this feedback (lots of merged threads):

Right to the meat - we are reverting the Emissive Energy inheriting Secondary energy as of next Hotfix. The reason we added this was because we read player feedback indicating disappointment 'Secondary Energy' did nothing on the Warframe itself, so we tried to give it meaning. And now the meaning has swung too far the other way!

You can expect a way more in-depth colour customization to come soon - at least we're experimenting with something really wild. We will be working on giving you (Forma using players) even more options - 4 energy customization slots total. Primary and Secondary for the Warframe itself. Primary and Secondary for the Warframe's Abilities and Effects. This means your all-Red Ember could have Blue Fire. Your Green Saryn could have Orange Spores, etc. But - it's in the laboratory. Stay tuned for a Dev Workshop as we work on this. And if you don't use Forma, you won't be forced to. Your Secondary slots would just be the same as Primary, so nothing would force a Forma, etc.

Like what some primes do when you don't change the energy color, like Saryn pink energy and green abilities? I would love that!

 

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Just now, ZanderWild said:

True that, feels like they just forgot about it since its been so long without any pbr for it

To be fair, they just updated over 20 items on the last update. I just hope they get back to the Warframes soon. It's due time.

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13 minutes ago, NightmareT12 said:

To be fair, they just updated over 20 items on the last update. I just hope they get back to the Warframes soon. It's due time.

yeah its good to see them still working on it. Vanguard is my favorite rhino helmet so it sucks that the wings still dont recolor 

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31 minutes ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

Important information as a result of this feedback (lots of merged threads):

Right to the meat - we are reverting the Emissive Energy inheriting Secondary energy as of next Hotfix. The reason we added this was because we read player feedback indicating disappointment 'Secondary Energy' did nothing on the Warframe itself, so we tried to give it meaning. And now the meaning has swung too far the other way!

You can expect a way more in-depth colour customization to come soon - at least we're experimenting with something really wild. We will be working on giving you (Forma using players) even more options - 4 energy customization slots total. Primary and Secondary for the Warframe itself. Primary and Secondary for the Warframe's Abilities and Effects. This means your all-Red Ember could have Blue Fire. Your Green Saryn could have Orange Spores, etc. But - it's in the laboratory. Stay tuned for a Dev Workshop as we work on this. And if you don't use Forma, you won't be forced to. Your Secondary slots would just be the same as Primary, so nothing would force a Forma, etc.

I hope this will mean I can set a specific color for Iron skin on Rhino as currently it's entirely based off of the color you use for accents. I mean my rhino prime looks absolutely fabulous but put Iron skin on and he looks like a golden turd.

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37 minutes ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

4 energy customization slots total. Primary and Secondary for the Warframe itself. Primary and Secondary for the Warframe's Abilities and Effects.

That sounds like a really good idea, hoping we'll see this soon enough :p

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Yes finally, different energy colous!

How will this affect Chroma and could we ever see opacity sliders or even true negative energy colours?

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1 hour ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

Important information as a result of this feedback (lots of merged threads):

Right to the meat - we are reverting the Emissive Energy inheriting Secondary energy as of next Hotfix. The reason we added this was because we read player feedback indicating disappointment 'Secondary Energy' did nothing on the Warframe itself, so we tried to give it meaning. And now the meaning has swung too far the other way!

You can expect a way more in-depth colour customization to come soon - at least we're experimenting with something really wild. We will be working on giving you (Forma using players) even more options - 4 energy customization slots total. Primary and Secondary for the Warframe itself. Primary and Secondary for the Warframe's Abilities and Effects. This means your all-Red Ember could have Blue Fire. Your Green Saryn could have Orange Spores, etc. But - it's in the laboratory. Stay tuned for a Dev Workshop as we work on this. And if you don't use Forma, you won't be forced to. Your Secondary slots would just be the same as Primary, so nothing would force a Forma, etc.

That... That would be perfect.

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The problem, at least for me, is that I, at least, had the idea that the colors of the energy were going to be independent of each other, in an example that if you want to have the color blue and red, it should be blue and red, not the concept of "blue enveloping red like a halo", because it does not work that way, if I do blue and red it will look blue and white! Not blue and red like it should.

I know that they're actively reading the forums since the Secondary energy topic went in fire in like 2 seconds after 24.7 update, hope i get read too.

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2 hours ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

Important information as a result of this feedback (lots of merged threads):

Right to the meat - we are reverting the Emissive Energy inheriting Secondary energy as of next Hotfix. The reason we added this was because we read player feedback indicating disappointment 'Secondary Energy' did nothing on the Warframe itself, so we tried to give it meaning. And now the meaning has swung too far the other way!

You can expect a way more in-depth colour customization to come soon - at least we're experimenting with something really wild. We will be working on giving you (Forma using players) even more options - 4 energy customization slots total. Primary and Secondary for the Warframe itself. Primary and Secondary for the Warframe's Abilities and Effects. This means your all-Red Ember could have Blue Fire. Your Green Saryn could have Orange Spores, etc. But - it's in the laboratory. Stay tuned for a Dev Workshop as we work on this. And if you don't use Forma, you won't be forced to. Your Secondary slots would just be the same as Primary, so nothing would force a Forma, etc.

It's great to hear you are still iterating on this. It's a welcome change, even if it takes a long time. 

With the initial version, I was among those that felt a bit disappointed that you couldn't see the secondary color on the Warframe, but like you said, all the update did was make the other color more dominant. Shifting hues or a blend of the two would be better (perhaps an option to choose whether you want it to blend the colors, cycle through them, or just flash the secondary now and then?)

My biggest want was to see the secondary energy colors pop a bit more for weapons. I Forma'd my Tatsu just to see how it looks, and the swing animation didn't really feature the secondary color at all. The slam animation and the dragon-projectiles it spawns certainly did, but the trail behind the sword was only the primary energy. I'd love to see it be both. 

Spoiler

Is it possible that we'll see secondary colors come to Operators as well? As far as I know, you can't Forma your space gremlin, so I assumed they'd be in the same camp as Syandanas, but that doesn't seem to be the case. I'd love to get a second energy color for the Operator abilities as well. 

 

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2 hours ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

Important information as a result of this feedback (lots of merged threads):

Right to the meat - we are reverting the Emissive Energy inheriting Secondary energy as of next Hotfix. The reason we added this was because we read player feedback indicating disappointment 'Secondary Energy' did nothing on the Warframe itself, so we tried to give it meaning. And now the meaning has swung too far the other way!

You can expect a way more in-depth colour customization to come soon - at least we're experimenting with something really wild. We will be working on giving you (Forma using players) even more options - 4 energy customization slots total. Primary and Secondary for the Warframe itself. Primary and Secondary for the Warframe's Abilities and Effects. This means your all-Red Ember could have Blue Fire. Your Green Saryn could have Orange Spores, etc. But - it's in the laboratory. Stay tuned for a Dev Workshop as we work on this. And if you don't use Forma, you won't be forced to. Your Secondary slots would just be the same as Primary, so nothing would force a Forma, etc.

This is sounds great, while the focus of development is on fashionframe can we please be able to customise helmets with different colours to their bodies? 

When mixing and matching helmets and bodies between deluxe/tennogen/prime skins the metallic channels and what colour the majority colour of the helmet/body sometimes changes. This means that we often have to make compromises in our fashion frame and weakens the overall look i.e. to have gold on Oberon's (non deluxe) helmet means you also have to use yellow on his butterfly kilt, or when using . Allowing us to colour the helmets separately to the bodies would prevent these annoying instances of compromise and would also drastically increase the potential creativity of fashionframe. 

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3 minutes ago, (PS4)moonchorus said:

This is sounds great, while the focus of development is on fashionframe can we please be able to customise helmets with different colours to their bodies? 

When mixing and matching helmets and bodies between deluxe/tennogen/prime skins the metallic channels and what colour the majority colour of the helmet/body sometimes changes. This means that we often have to make compromises in our fashion frame and weakens the overall look i.e. to have gold on Oberon's (non deluxe) helmet means you also have to use yellow on his butterfly kilt, or when using . Allowing us to colour the helmets separately to the bodies would prevent these annoying instances of compromise and would also drastically increase the potential creativity of fashionframe. 

Yeah thats something I wanted for ages. Actually made such a comment an hour back or so on reddit. Just needs to finally become a thing.

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Please please please fix the disjointed color channels on armors

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4 hours ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

Important information as a result of this feedback (lots of merged threads):

Right to the meat - we are reverting the Emissive Energy inheriting Secondary energy as of next Hotfix. The reason we added this was because we read player feedback indicating disappointment 'Secondary Energy' did nothing on the Warframe itself, so we tried to give it meaning. And now the meaning has swung too far the other way!

You can expect a way more in-depth colour customization to come soon - at least we're experimenting with something really wild. We will be working on giving you (Forma using players) even more options - 4 energy customization slots total. Primary and Secondary for the Warframe itself. Primary and Secondary for the Warframe's Abilities and Effects. This means your all-Red Ember could have Blue Fire. Your Green Saryn could have Orange Spores, etc. But - it's in the laboratory. Stay tuned for a Dev Workshop as we work on this. And if you don't use Forma, you won't be forced to. Your Secondary slots would just be the same as Primary, so nothing would force a Forma, etc.

It's a new system, bugs and kinks to iron out are to be expected.

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Yeah this change has broken lots of colorings left and right, it either must be reverted or fixed so Warframes retain their OG abilty and respectifve colors without the need to Forma.

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19 hours ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

Important information as a result of this feedback (lots of merged threads):

Right to the meat - we are reverting the Emissive Energy inheriting Secondary energy as of next Hotfix. The reason we added this was because we read player feedback indicating disappointment 'Secondary Energy' did nothing on the Warframe itself, so we tried to give it meaning. And now the meaning has swung too far the other way!

You can expect a way more in-depth colour customization to come soon - at least we're experimenting with something really wild. We will be working on giving you (Forma using players) even more options - 4 energy customization slots total. Primary and Secondary for the Warframe itself. Primary and Secondary for the Warframe's Abilities and Effects. This means your all-Red Ember could have Blue Fire. Your Green Saryn could have Orange Spores, etc. But - it's in the laboratory. Stay tuned for a Dev Workshop as we work on this. And if you don't use Forma, you won't be forced to. Your Secondary slots would just be the same as Primary, so nothing would force a Forma, etc.

@[DE]Rebecca will the hotfix return Valkyr's Emmisives to the animated state or just make it so primary colours have priority

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7 minutes ago, KatalystPrime said:

@[DE]Rebecca will the hotfix return Valkyr's Emmisives to the animated state or just make it so primary colours have priority

The way I understood it, since they deployed a new set of textures and code to all things, the revert would redeploy the old assets as they were previously to 24.7, so everything should return to normal.

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On 2019-04-12 at 1:08 PM, [DE]Rebecca said:

Primary and Secondary for the Warframe's Abilities and Effects. 

Excellent! One question.

It appears that for many (albeit not all - Nyx's Psychic Bolts being one notable exception) abilities, the mixed energy effects reuse the old Ability Energy Color system where brightness is directly tied to alpha value. This means using dark or black energy will lead to many particle effects being transparent, colorless in the cases of Exalted weapons, or simply washed-out/overridden by bright energy colors.

Will this be addressed in the near future to allow players to mix in visibly dark energy effects?

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20 hours ago, NightmareT12 said:

The way I understood it, since they deployed a new set of textures and code to all things, the revert would redeploy the old assets as they were previously to 24.7, so everything should return to normal.

 we can only hope so.

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On 2019-04-12 at 3:08 PM, [DE]Rebecca said:

Important information as a result of this feedback (lots of merged threads):

Right to the meat - we are reverting the Emissive Energy inheriting Secondary energy as of next Hotfix. The reason we added this was because we read player feedback indicating disappointment 'Secondary Energy' did nothing on the Warframe itself, so we tried to give it meaning. And now the meaning has swung too far the other way!

You can expect a way more in-depth colour customization to come soon - at least we're experimenting with something really wild. We will be working on giving you (Forma using players) even more options - 4 energy customization slots total. Primary and Secondary for the Warframe itself. Primary and Secondary for the Warframe's Abilities and Effects. This means your all-Red Ember could have Blue Fire. Your Green Saryn could have Orange Spores, etc. But - it's in the laboratory. Stay tuned for a Dev Workshop as we work on this. And if you don't use Forma, you won't be forced to. Your Secondary slots would just be the same as Primary, so nothing would force a Forma, etc.

Would this also effect weapons as well? Such as if my warframe has two color options for the emissives and two for the FX, will my weapon also have two for the emissive and two for the FX. Because if it only applies to the warframe then it would have the same issue of making it very difficult to fashion. I might be able to make my warframe match itself but I wouldn't be able to match anything else to my warframe. Such as if I used the Limbo deluxe and wanted both the FX and emissive to have the secondary energy in the middle if this change did not apply to weapons than If I used the war then either my emissive wouldn't match the skin or my FX wouldn't match the skin. Or like Revenant, he wouldn't be able to match up with any of his signature weapons if they only had two energy color options while Revenant has 4.

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Posted (edited)

Oh my God. The borked/rushed release and broad changes made me judge this all too quickly and act too reckless 😞 I just realized DE gave us in the newest update almost the same tool they use to set up the emissives.

Most people don't know, but DE uses some sliders and sets high and low values. These create a contrasting effect in a "gradient". The clearest example: Very bright blue as Primary (I guess it's the high) and very dark blue as the secondary (which would be the low), gives the energy color Rhino was concepted with:

Spoiler

latest?cb=20141124023312

Proof:

85aWarframe1100.jpg

Spoiler

Warframe1104.jpg

This yields best results in colors of the same family. The problem is most people don't know, so they try very broad color combinations (ie: Bright blue and very dark red), thus creating effects similar to:

Warframe1105.jpg

This leads people to believe that one color dominates the other, when in fact...:

Warframe1106.jpg

It's all there, as it's supposed to be.

However it's impossible for the vast majority of the playerbase to know all of this without a proper Dev Workshop or in game info. So it's only normal the reactions were so varied.

Additionally, the replacement texture set that was deployed wasn't properly tested: There's missing portions left and right, some mispositioned, there's a few instances where they are more pixelated (the Equinox on OP post, Banshee Prime) thus looking worse, not all values were properly updated (I've noticed a couple where they were inverted), etc. It is my understanding the old texture set was able to do these same effects for two colors, because I know Mynki designed many like Rhino. I would keep those if it's possible, will save you more work if everything can be re hookedup.

Thus, this is what I feel would be the best course of action:

  • Revert the changes for now.
  • Make sure to put up all this emissive info in a Dev Workshop. It's super important.
  • Make sure all textures are up and running as they are intended, unlike now, where the rush made a chaos.
  • Make sure all values are set up correctly (right now there's a few frames that have inverted values or wrong values, a few weapons too. God knows on enemies/weapons/pets). I believe all items do properly have these 2 values when originally created. If these are retrievable it's all less trouble.
  • Remove the Forma requirement. This needs to go straight off the bat, it's a natural feature of the texture.
  • Add these values to all items, because they all use it in source (Armor, pets, etc.)
  • Totally still go with decoupling abilities and the body energies as Rebb posted! I've waited so long for that 😭
  • REDEPLOY!

And of course, make sure you guys are able to follow up on any issues that would be remaining. Right now the Operator Suit changes still have things that need changing, but still haven't been tackled on 😞

I am very well aware of what exactly I am asking here: It's a lot of database space and it's super ambitious. But it's the best course of action for certain.

I owe you all at DE a very deep apology. I got too worked up over the borked release and wrote some things that ain't cool to read, especially when you work so hard everyday as I know and have seen you do. I'm too passionate about this game's art and I know you guys can do a lot, and this sometimes gets the best of me. I hope this shows now in a much more constructive way.

Thanks for reading everyone. I'll add a link to this post on the OP.

Edited by NightmareT12
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