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AlexanderDMoon

Amalgam Wolf is 99.999% unkillable.

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1st time you do the heists for Profit taker you are given a single Gravimag, after that you need to make others.

 

but still getting to use an archgun in atmosphere is not too hard if you've gotten to Venus.

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12 minutes ago, nslay said:

Well, I'll be finding out! I am not very enthusiastic since the research costs are supposedly low (1 systems each?) while nobody contributed. Probably particularly because those atmo systems are very tedious to get while also part of progressing in Vox Solaris? So I've read... And Gravimag lumps another 5 on top of the 10 you have to get for Vox Solaris that everyone seems to complain about already.

Look I won't say it's fun to grind and I did do 6 hours of profit taker on release day to get repeller systems for rankups but doing bounty stage 2 is fast to repeat and hope for atmos systems to drop. I used a nova portal build, the bounty takes about 90 seconds, the cutscene rubbish takes longer sadly 😞

But yeh, find a clan that contributes properly I guess, I drop in on our casual moon clan each time new research is made available and if they haven't done it (they usually are good) I just fund it myself for them.

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42 minutes ago, MirageKnight said:

Just something to add to the discussion...Are you all aware that headshots apparently do LESS damage to Wolf Boy compared to body shots?

*slow clap*

Combined with invincible lackeys that only become vulnerable AFTER you go through the slogfest that is fighting a massive gear-check sponge...who incidentally is not level capped at 60. He can spawn at level 70-75. In any mission.

Great work DE  /s

Yes, I can confirm that headshots actually do reduced damage compared to body shots on Amalgam Wolf. He is worse than ever and he was awful to begin with.

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Posted (edited)
On 2019-04-12 at 4:59 PM, SenariousNex said:

Finally a sliver of challenge. 

That moment when people actually think "bullet sponge" = "challenge".  At best, it's a time-consumer meant only for those geared to meet him.  Nothing more, nothing less.  I only EVER see Wolf in Hydron when everyone is leveling either a frame or weapons.  The wolf is a completely stupid waste of time and in no way enjoyable in that scenario.  I just now had to leave a Hydron because I was the only person who could do damage to him, and I ran out of bullets getting him 50% life lost after 10 minutes.  And because the Round 5 would NOT progress to Round 6 without Wolf dying, I could not get ammo drops anymore as no adds were spawning.  

Here's a social experiment:  Lets put an ACTUAL...LITERAL breakable that doesn't move at all, in a stage.  Give it a million hit points.  Tell everyone it's a "mini-boss" and "something good is behind that wall".  You'll just be standing in one place spamming your weapon non-stop for 15 minutes.  You will still get hundreds of people praising it for being "challenging" and "innovative".  At this point, we're just jangling a ring of keys in front of people.  

Edited by Alaeacus
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Posted (edited)

 

Edit: actually just ignore that. I just remembered the old cooldown mechanic which made things significantly worse back then. 

Edited by Annnoth

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Posted (edited)

I wish DE was smarter than just "making sh*t invincible" for their difficulty curve. How much money these guys get and they can't design a random boss encounter with even so little as three stages and different attacks or attack styles with each cycle?

tenor.gif

Edited by AshenHaze

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10 hours ago, Alaeacus said:

And because the Round 5 would NOT progress to Round 6 without Wolf dying, I could not get ammo drops anymore as no adds were spawning.  

In before someone lectures you on being a noob for not bringing ammo pizzas.

10 hours ago, Alaeacus said:

Here's a social experiment:  Lets put an ACTUAL...LITERAL breakable that doesn't move at all, in a stage.  Give it a million hit points.  Tell everyone it's a "mini-boss" and "something good is behind that wall".  You'll just be standing in one place spamming your weapon non-stop for 15 minutes.  You will still get hundreds of people praising it for being "challenging" and "innovative".  At this point, we're just jangling a ring of keys in front of people.  

But, but...muh shiny!

10 hours ago, Alaeacus said:

At best, it's a time-consumer meant only for those geared to meet him. 

And you'd be correct for saying that.

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11 hours ago, nslay said:

Well, I'll be finding out! I am not very enthusiastic since the research costs are supposedly low (1 systems each?) while nobody contributed. Probably particularly because those atmo systems are very tedious to get while also part of progressing in Vox Solaris? So I've read... And Gravimag lumps another 5 on top of the 10 you have to get for Vox Solaris that everyone seems to complain about already.

What I did for this was run the Profit Taker Bounty 2. 

In about 3 days of casual grinding, I had 105+ Gravimag Systems, 40+ Atmo Systems and 15 Repeller Systems. 

It's painful, but the most efficient way. 

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Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, MirageKnight said:

In before someone lectures you on being a noob for not bringing ammo pizzas.

 I suppose I should start carrying them around.  I don't think I've come across a single bit of content that required me to until now.  I probably could have used a pizza in the Sniper-only Lephantis fights yesterday in parties where my teammates couldn't contribute anything.  

I just think the Wolf needs to scale a little bit more intelligently for those 75% of people running around with poorly modded, non-meta weapons.  I also don't think he should show up on Hydron at all.  Lol  The Wolf is less of an "Oh crap!", and more of a "Whelp, might as well leave group and requeue now".  

Edited by Alaeacus
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13 hours ago, Alaeacus said:

That moment when people actually think "bullet sponge" = "challenge".  At best, it's a time-consumer meant only for those geared to meet him.  Nothing more, nothing less.  I only EVER see Wolf in Hydron when everyone is leveling either a frame or weapons.  The wolf is a completely stupid waste of time and in no way enjoyable in that scenario.  I just now had to leave a Hydron because I was the only person who could do damage to him, and I ran out of bullets getting him 50% life lost after 10 minutes.  And because the Round 5 would NOT progress to Round 6 without Wolf dying, I could not get ammo drops anymore as no adds were spawning.  

Here's a social experiment:  Lets put an ACTUAL...LITERAL breakable that doesn't move at all, in a stage.  Give it a million hit points.  Tell everyone it's a "mini-boss" and "something good is behind that wall".  You'll just be standing in one place spamming your weapon non-stop for 15 minutes.  You will still get hundreds of people praising it for being "challenging" and "innovative".  At this point, we're just jangling a ring of keys in front of people.  

There's a reason people in Hydron think he's a bullet sponge though, they're levelling gear. The past 2 days I decided to pub Hydron to see if Wolf would show up. Sadly he didn't but in most of those games, players did not have any meaningful weapon to contribute to kills and on average I was doing 60% or so of the damage with my Guandao. Not even bringing one weapon to not be a leech? They're practically asking for a beatdown. The ones that do actually bring a weapon and struggle, I have no idea why. I guess they just don't strip the armour. Once you do that he drops in no more than a minute.

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Posted (edited)
12 hours ago, Alaeacus said:

I suppose I should start carrying them around.  I don't think I've come across a single bit of content that required me to until now.  I probably could have used a pizza in the Sniper-only Lephantis fights yesterday in parties where my teammates couldn't contribute anything.  

Not a bad idea to do so. I typically carry health, ammo, and energy pizzas just to be on the safe side 🙂

12 hours ago, Alaeacus said:

I just think the Wolf needs to scale a little bit more intelligently for those 75% of people running around with poorly modded, non-meta weapons.  I also don't think he should show up on Hydron at all.  Lol  The Wolf is less of an "Oh crap!", and more of a "Whelp, might as well leave group and requeue now".  

I think that's a fair point. With regard to Hydron, Wolfy is seriously problematic due to his invulnerable cohorts lobbing molotovs at everything in sight, including the objective.

 

So how to make the fight manageable and actually challenging as opposed to dealing with a big dumb bullet sponge and his trolls? Here's a few suggestions for DE to ponder.

Wolf of Saturn 6

  • Allow him to block incoming fire from projectile weapons with his hammer except when recovering from an attack or hammer throw.
  • Extend hammer throw action to provide a window of opportunity to attack.
  • Allow him to dodge attacks with rolls and leaps from time to time.
  • Allow increased damage from headshots. For real this time.
  • Change main health type to Cloned Flesh. This is a Grineer with body armor we're fighting, not a battle droid. Keep the initial Alloy Armor though.
  • Make him vulnerable to CC and stun attacks - but allow him to shrug off said stun more quickly than normal enemies.

Fugitives

  • Remove invulnerability. 
  • Match their spawn level with the level of other enemies in the mission.
  • Each Fugitive captured increases Wolf's attack and movement speed and damage by 10%  - but making him take longer to recover from performing attacks and special moves.

Lastly, allow Wolfy and his pack to be targeted by enemies in the level - ESPECIALLY GRINEER. The fact that Grineer troops are pretty much ignoring escaped convicts that are armed and dangerous completely baffles me.

 

Edited by MirageKnight
Added / amended some suggestions - Thanks Diab!
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57 minutes ago, Zilchy said:

There's a reason people in Hydron think he's a bullet sponge though, they're levelling gear. The past 2 days I decided to pub Hydron to see if Wolf would show up. Sadly he didn't but in most of those games, players did not have any meaningful weapon to contribute to kills and on average I was doing 60% or so of the damage with my Guandao. Not even bringing one weapon to not be a leech? They're practically asking for a beatdown. The ones that do actually bring a weapon and struggle, I have no idea why. I guess they just don't strip the armour. Once you do that he drops in no more than a minute.

Yeah, in that aforementioned Wolf encounter, I was only able to do 60% of the damage because I had an endgame-RIivened-Arca Plasmor on me that I usually use to sweep Hydron stages.  Even though I went in there with a Level 0 Ivara, I was still the only person that could stay alive long enough to compete against Wolf...until I ran out of ammo lol.  Everyone else had low level weapons.  

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1 minute ago, Alaeacus said:

Yeah, in that aforementioned Wolf encounter, I was only able to do 60% of the damage because I had an endgame-RIivened-Arca Plasmor on me that I usually use to sweep Hydron stages.  Even though I went in there with a Level 0 Ivara, I was still the only person that could stay alive long enough to compete against Wolf...until I ran out of ammo lol.  Everyone else had low level weapons.  

And that's unfortunate mate because I'm willing to bet that with a little bit of help or an armour strip, with a nice weapon like that you would've wrecked him, And that's the crux of my debate about people telling me Wolf is a bullet sponge. They tell me that in solo he's easy but in a group he scales. That's because in a group, the GROUP is expected to be able to contribute to his demise. That's just the risk of playing pub, you may or may not get a group that can handle him. Solo he's easily wrecked if you bring the gear, if you don't it'll be no different to trying to kill him in a group. *shrug*

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Ran into him, dagger zaw did great, also on an Inaros with Vit, Armored Mobility, Steel Fiber, Gladiator Aegis, Gladiator Resolve and Adaptation he and his convicts literally can't do any lasting damage to you.

 

So far on a DPS frame with a catchmoon or tombfinger kitgun with Pax Charge (so ammo is not an issue) he goes down pretty fast, on a tank frame a fast crit melee works even better.

Now I'm going to try and see if on my Inaros, my single forma Imperator Vandal is a viable choice.

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That patch for the consoles can't come soon enough, still running into him in Relic missions with randomly high levels on Switch, he showed up at 70 on a 25-30 defense mission today, and for some reason was more durable than one that showed up at level 80 in a 30-35(iirc) exterminate.

Man I hope they never make something as unhinged and reliant on Damage Reduction again.

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I just encountered level 65 Amalgam Wolf in Marduk, Void while solo'ing sabotage for Nightwave. That is a very scary place to encounter him because that branch of the void has +200% damage enemies (including Wolf and his goons)! I have seen him before while solo'ing Marduk a few weeks ago and I died because I saw my HP hit 2 and instinctively casted Mesmer Skin when I didn't need to (and then I got scratched by someone while casting it). Two HP is a magic number for Revenant took fatal damage but Mesmer Skin prevented him from dying and Wolf has at least one ability that bypasses Mesmer skin!

So the fight took me 5 minutes... and that is a lot longer than you will probably need anywhere that isn't +200% damage Void! My strategy was to first (and carefully!) Enthrall all of his goons and anyone else around. Molotovs bypass Mesmer Skin and they hurt a lot in that part of the Void! Then I very carefully applied Shattering Impact on Wolf by slide hitting him and then hitting him 4-5 times and then running away when he was charging up! I did this a few times while checking on my Thralls (because Goons are very deadly there!). Wolf applied some cheese attack and I saw my HP hit 2 again... but this time, I didn't recast Mesmer Skin since it was still full charge. I instead Reaved my Thralls and got all my life back in 1 Reave (you can sap life from the invincible goons, but there were others around). Then I think 10 shots of Opticor Vandal with radiation damage finished him off... Each shot hit him for 20-30k. This was not hard (just sketchy because everything could very easily kill you!). You can do it! Just watch out for his instant kill ability that bypasses defenses (whatever that is! I didn't take note!)!

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Posted (edited)

I m just gonna punch him to death with corrosive crit hirudo. No big deals 😐

Edited by sillman74

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On 2019-04-13 at 3:38 PM, Ryim_Drykeon said:

Those saying the Wolf is too hard?

 

I don't think I've seen anybody say that. 

Shooting a dude for ages isn't hard. It's *just* boring.

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I just ran into this dude in a full party on Saturn. Holy cow what a gigantic waste of time. A Sabotage fissure took 14 minutes because of this hunk of junk. This is with using a Vectis Prime and having stripped his armor. (Though I suspect it might be more efficient to go the bullet hose route like on Lephantis). I already dislike playing multiplayer and this was just torture due to his scaling.

His head is hard to hit due to his animations and maybe a bad hitbox. It could have been lag but it felt fine everywhere else. This was unpleasant.

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What i find most annoying with this boss is that he pops in randomly and is pretty much immune to everything, including damage, unless one has a specifically built weapon for him. I mean sure the rubico prime works passably but even with a 600% damage buff on chroma it doesn't really do more than 10k per shot (At the body because headshots are less damage) in my case. I have no idea what people use to get it so much higher apart from some overpriced riven.

So if i do have the right setup then hes basically not a threat, same with his minions, its just a boring slog until he dies and drops garbage. If I'm instead on a squishy frame like Nyx if he shows up I'm basically screwed. His minions will practically one shot her and her CC doesn't even work on them as they will never attack eachother or the wolf. You can disable one with mind control but that's it. So if i want to avoid that kind of situation i need to /always/ play chroma or something like titania that has CC that actually works against the minions.

That latter part is why i consider the wolf one of the worst designed enemies i have ever seen in any game id call decent. Not because he is difficult or needs a specific build, but because he shows up randomly in addition to needing the specific build. He should have been something like an alert or his own node.

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1 hour ago, ArcKnight9202 said:

His head is hard to hit due to his animations and maybe a bad hitbox. It could have been lag but it felt fine everywhere else. This was unpleasant.

Now, you know you're going to have to explain why that's a bad thing. 

 

37 minutes ago, Vahenir said:

So if i do have the right setup then hes basically not a threat, same with his minions, its just a boring slog until he dies and drops garbage. If I'm instead on a squishy frame like Nyx if he shows up I'm basically screwed.

So, what you're saying boils down to, "being prepared works, and being unprepared doesn't"? 🤔

Yeah ok, that makes sense. Good chat. 👍

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Well, you seem to forget that this is a boss that shows up randomly. A lot of the time people will not be prepared and having a boss that requires preparation poof in means that to be prepared one has to bring stuff that works against it at all times. I for one tend to swap between frames a lot and of the ones i like to play only two are actually good against this enemy. This is exactly why he should have been his own node/alert because getting roflstomped by him because i decided to play something else just sucks.

With his own node those that want to fight him can decide to do so and those that don't want to touch it can just leave it be and not get the rewards.

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22 minutes ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

Now, you know you're going to have to explain why that's a bad thing. 

Allow me, the Wolf (and by extension several other enemies depending on the map) having excessively mobile hitboxes causes this severe sense of frustration especially when enemy pathing can sometimes not make up its bloody mind where it wants to go, I've seen far too many Grineer move back and forth because of their A.I being unable to decide if it wants to duck behind the cover to the left or the right.

Factor in host lag and enemies can often miss steps or animations which can cause even hitscan weapons to miss when an enemy literally warps out of your line of sight a fraction of a second before you pull the trigger.

The Wolf in particular is a pain in this regard because he switches targets far too often, which if you are on a larger tileset (or god forbid a map with open vertical movement) he can repeatedly jump up and down from levels or back and forth across pits which make him a HUMONGOUS pain to shoot, adding in his exceptionally small critical hitbox (its the eye on the head, not the head itself which is like threading a needle with a bullet) dramatic durability and immunity to any form of crowd control and you have a cocktail of awkward movements that cause more missed shots than any other enemy in the game. The only counter to this issue would be to have allies all be in one area so he doesn't wind up swapping back and forth or turning around mid aim but that's difficult to do in most cases as grouping together makes a team easy pickings for his molotov grunts.

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I'm suprised so few people mention equiping a heavy weapon with radiation + crit spec. You can bring it with each loadout and doesn't leech exp when you try to level another weapon (unless you call it down). But of course it does require you to max fortuna rep.

Just be careful if you equip a grattler, the self damage is unreal with that one.

(note: I do think he has too much health though)

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