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BlackFox66

AOE RUINING ALL THE GAME

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Posted (edited)

Is there any chance to get all aoe abilities fixed? its so boring gameplay to press 4 for win, like what the point of other dmg frames? if there is a saryn, equinox, banshee, octavia, etc. Like those aoe frames are killing 80% of all frames, because there is no point to play garuda, mirage, mesa, excalibur. i know that those frames are good and people are playing them, but the fact u can just pick saryn and press 4 and deal 2 times more damage then other frame using different abilities, guns and actually playing the game is ridiculous. just hope that balance will appear someday...

Edited by BlackFox66
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45 minutes ago, BlackFox66 said:

Is there any chance to get all aoe abilities fixed? its so boring gameplay to press 4 for win, like what the point of other dmg frames? if there is a saryn, equinox, banshee, octavia, etc. Like those aoe frames are killing 80% of all frames, because there is no point to play garuda, mirage, mesa, excalibur. i know that those frames are good and people are playing them, but the fact u can just pick saryn and press 4 and deal 2 times more damage then other frame using different abilities, guns and actually playing the game is ridiculous. just hope that balance will appear someday...

I agree. This game needs some serious changes with its damage systems towards enemies. But at this point, that mindset is dead like pure cc and support frames. 

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11 hours ago, moostar95 said:

-Snip-

I fail to see the reason for these kind of threads when Saryn is hardly the most useful thing in more than half the game. She is only needed if you require fast AoE damage, so if the OP lacks that in the required setting, they are expected to fall behind.

Just because Saryn works in a lot of content doesn't make her optimal if she has to rely entirely on her guns to do them (like capture or spy). Your Inaros can still work on Sortie Exterminate with a good gun, that doesn't make him broken. Zephyr can still work on Eidolons with VS and a Rubico. Doesn't make her OP.  Hell Saryn can protect an objective if she kills fast enough, but can she outdo Limbo at point defense? No.

There are things which each frame is good at. Just because you wanna play ESO without an AoE frame doesn't mean AoE frames need a nerf.

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Posted (edited)
15 hours ago, BlackFox66 said:

garuda, mirage, mesa, excalibur

But these guys are also OP AoE characters. How are you going to exclude them? This is laughable.

I don't want to take away from the idea that OP is correct. These frames need nerfs.

Edited by (PS4)RenovaKunumaru
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Posted (edited)
25 minutes ago, Datam4ss said:

There is no need to be a Saryn hater on your end as well. Again, I fail to see the reason for these kind of threads when Saryn is hardly the most useful thing in more than half the game. She is only needed if you require fast AoE damage, so if the OP lacks that in the required setting, they are expected to fall behind.

Just because Saryn works in a lot of content doesn't make her optimal if she has to rely entirely on her guns to do them (like capture or spy). Your Inaros can still work on Sortie Exterminate with a good gun, that doesn't make him broken. Zephyr can still work on Eidolons with VS and a Rubico. Doesn't make her OP.  Hell Saryn can protect an objective if she kills fast enough, but can she outdo Limbo at point defense? No.

There are things which each frame is good at. Just because you wanna play ESO without an AoE frame doesn't mean AoE frames need a nerf.

ill say more all aoe needs to be nerfed, and we talk about dmg frames, so urs "saryn cant do things limbo can" and etc are not current, the thing is all dmg frames are way weaker then saryn and company its obvious.

Edited by BlackFox66
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1 minute ago, (PS4)RenovaKunumaru said:

But these guys are also OP AoE characters. How are you going to exclude them? This is laughable.

they are but they cant kill the entire map by pressing 1 button, u have to play the game at least

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, Datam4ss said:

There is no need to be a Saryn hater on your end as well. Again, I fail to see the reason for these kind of threads when Saryn is hardly the most useful thing in more than half the game. She is only needed if you require fast AoE damage, so if the OP lacks that in the required setting, they are expected to fall behind.

Just because Saryn works in a lot of content doesn't make her optimal if she has to rely entirely on her guns to do them (like capture or spy). Your Inaros can still work on Sortie Exterminate with a good gun, that doesn't make him broken. Zephyr can still work on Eidolons with VS and a Rubico. Doesn't make her OP.  Hell Saryn can protect an objective if she kills fast enough, but can she outdo Limbo at point defense? No.

There are things which each frame is good at. Just because you wanna play ESO without an AoE frame doesn't mean AoE frames need a nerf.

I've solo eso without  saryn  as inaros many times and without nukes. If maps were not a pita to kill spawns without nukes. I'll would be higher. Also good job missing my point about enemy scaling. Don't mistake what I say in that other thread you were in.

Edited by moostar95

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2 hours ago, moostar95 said:

I've solo eso without  saryn  as inaros many times and without nukes. If maps were not a pita to kill spawns without nukes. I'll would be higher. Also good job missing my point about enemy scaling. Don't mistake what I say in that other thread you were in.

DE will not do anything about enemy scaling. You are asking for the sky here. The pushback from another section of the community (there will always be people who think it is ok) will be much bigger if you change it. Just because it's broke to you doesn't mean it's broke to others. Or else people like Justin Bieber would never have fans.

You can doesn't mean it is the best. Again, as I said, just because you want to do it, does not mean other people don't deserve their toy. If you wanna drive a dragster on a formula 1 racetrack, you can, but that doesn't mean the turning radius of the formula 1 cars need a nerf.

It is not about you, or if you can do it.

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Posted (edited)

Sure, complaints about enemy scaling is just a me problem. Even though there ARE other people who seen this is an issue. Also steve is working on testing out some enemy scaling settings for railjack. So.....im hopeful SOME what. 

Edited by moostar95
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1 minute ago, moostar95 said:

Sure, complaints about enemy scaling is just a me problem. Even though there ARE other people who seen this is an issue. Also steve is working on testing out some enemy scaling settings for railjack. So.....

As I always reiterate, in group vs group, where both are vocal minorities, there is no side that deserves to win. Hence, status quo.

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IMO the problem isnt AoE frames, its more of the enemy variety, every enemy can pretty much die by pressing one button. The one enemy these frames dread is a Nullifier, hence why its my favourite enemy.

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So in the game about killing hordes of Mobs the AoE frames needed to kill all those mobs should be nerfed to mediocrity? How about you stick to solo queue or hand made groups with no AoE frames or weapons if you dont want to play with people who want to do stuff efficiently? What you are essentially asking for is to remove a key part of efficient play and what people much like myself use to make the grind bearable after ages of playing (5 years to be exact...). And before you call me elitist, I'm not being an elitist. Your just being a a crybaby and asking for people to conform to your play style just as the people who defend good methods of killing defend AoE, Every coin has two sides Tenno. Yours is just the side less chosen and your being a sore loser...

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There is a better way to deal with this.

give AoE abilities to every damage frames.

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3 minutes ago, Test-995 said:

There is a better way to deal with this.

give AoE abilities to every damage frames.

Return Ash to Ash 1.0 with the 18 chain bladestorm...

Buff Radial Javelin back to original level

Give us back the old Polarize

10/10 I liek.

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I'd be happy if there were a "Covenant effect" on all PBAoE damage abilities. Some kind of non optional buff that prevents reuse until it wears off. Maybe something that adds a synergy to their other abilities to encourage ability diversity while also making you spend energy elsewhere. Some could be charges that need to spent, others could be a buff on a timer. 

You get a useful combat buff, and it eliminates spamming 4.

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Posted (edited)

I'll say this - I'm a person who prefers mechanically interesting gameplay to attempting to make the most efficient build to play endless survival missions with or whatever. And with that perspective established - AOE abilities are the least mechanically interesting things to use in any game. That's not me advocating to their removal, I tend to just play frames that don't have an atomic 4 power that kills everything within a mile radius - but I HAVE run into times before when I wanted to both farm AND play the game - and I ran into issues when the pub player I get matched with for a defense mission uses an AOE ability that is so far-reaching that it kills the enemies AT their spawn points. That was with an equinox I think. But this hasn't happened in awhile - I just wanted to add my two cents that AOE abilities can be an annoyance if they are op, and they don't add much to gameplay. The very fact that most frames with an offensive 1 ability have to actually look at and target enemies when using it makes it way more fun, and something I want to be doing far more often than hitting 4 and waiting for the guys to fall down while I'm stuck frozen in place. I'm ok with breaking gameplay up every now and again with a 4 that acts as a sort of "ultimate", but that means it can't be too easy to use consistently otherwise it loses its impact and takes away from the more fun, interactive elements of the game design. Imagine if your gun just shot in all directions at the same time. Would that be fun? Probably not. I'm more stoked about AOE abilities that act as a sort of support bubble, whether its offensively melting enemies armor or buffing allies. Even Ash's 4 which doesn't directly involve him feels more tactical, because you are kind of subtracting things from the battlefield which you don't want to be interrupted to deal with. 

 

But yeah that equinox snarkily told me to: "enjoy the free farming" - k. Just saying like, I don't open a game up to not play it. I'm not a completionist, I actually enjoy warframe.

Edited by Gnohme
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There's no point in nerfing the aoe abilities as they currently stand. Here's why :

-Almost all major resources are dropped in mission by enemies. 

-Almost all mods are dropped in missions by enemies. 

-The only real way to get affinity is from killing enemies in mission, bonus exp on mission end is based on the enemies killed in mission. 

-Some mission objectives like life support are boosted by enemy kills

 

This means that most of the major aspects of this game are based on in-mission enemy kills rather than mission end rewards. Nerfing nukes and aoe abilities while these systems are in place will only slow down the aquisition of items and progression of the game, in an already grindy game that has so many things already necessary to farm for, obtain, build, and level just to feel like you're progressing. 

To effectively nerf aoes, you need to change the methods items and exp are obtained else it'd just do nothing but cause people to complain about things that used to take an hour to farm now taking days

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Posted (edited)
8 minutes ago, LuckyCharm said:

There's no point in nerfing the aoe abilities as they currently stand. Here's why :

-Almost all major resources are dropped in mission by enemies. 

-Almost all mods are dropped in missions by enemies. 

-The only real way to get affinity is from killing enemies in mission, bonus exp on mission end is based on the enemies killed in mission. 

-Some mission objectives like life support are boosted by enemy kills

 

This means that most of the major aspects of this game are based on in-mission enemy kills rather than mission end rewards. Nerfing nukes and aoe abilities while these systems are in place will only slow down the aquisition of items and progression of the game, in an already grindy game that has so many things already necessary to farm for, obtain, build, and level just to feel like you're progressing. 

To effectively nerf aoes, you need to change the methods items and exp are obtained else it'd just do nothing but cause people to complain about things that used to take an hour to farm now taking days

How is that the reasons aoe shouldnt be nerfed? there is tons of other frames which are efficient and more enjoyable then those nobrain 1 buttton aoe frames, and u can farm everything you want with weapons and not op frame otherwise there is no point to play smth else but saryn or equi and etc, and pressing 4. I see that as the reasons aoe should be nerfed

Edited by BlackFox66
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3 minutes ago, BlackFox66 said:

otherwise there is no point to play smth else but saryn or equi and etc, and pressing 4

Ok, sure, go use your Equi and Saryn on Spy or Eidolon. Go ahead man.

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Posted (edited)
4 minutes ago, Datam4ss said:

Ok, sure, go use your Equi and Saryn on Spy or Eidolon. Go ahead man.

Easy can play spy on any frame, on eidolon you're playing as operator 80%of the time, tell me 3 cases excalibur, mesa or others dmg frames are more efficient then saryn or equi. Bet u cant because aoe is op and should be nerfed. P.s. read please what the point of conversetion before answering. because youre not in the topic at all

Edited by BlackFox66
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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, Test-995 said:

There is a better way to deal with this.

give AoE abilities to every damage frames.

ill delete the game if that ever happends, much better delete all dmg abilities from the game imo

Edited by BlackFox66

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4 minutes ago, BlackFox66 said:

ill delete the game if that ever happends

Don't worry, i'm 100% sure they won't do it.

Just wait, i suppose those "META" will got nerfed to oblivion someday.

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51 minutes ago, BlackFox66 said:

How is that the reasons aoe shouldnt be nerfed? there is tons of other frames which are efficient and more enjoyable then those nobrain 1 buttton aoe frames, and u can farm everything you want with weapons and not op frame otherwise there is no point to play smth else but saryn or equi and etc, and pressing 4. I see that as the reasons aoe should be nerfed

What i said is 100% the reason that aoe shouldnt be nerfed until the loot system gets looked at. If you cant farm anything in a reasonable amount of time or effort youre simply going to end up with everything taking at least twice as long to farm.. theres literally no up side to nerfing it right now. I agree nuke frames are boring af, its why i main loki, but it's also not fun playing loki if you're going to hunt for the 0.05% drop chance items etc. it's not like enemies are dropping things with every death, they're rarely dropping things, and when they do its even rarer that its the mod etc that you're hunting for. 

I already have a big stash of resources so im okay to build most things, but theres 27 ranks of MR others have to still grind up things for, that's sooo much farming already and you're proposing to increase that grind even more. That sir is the reason it shouldnt be nerfed. 

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2 minutes ago, LuckyCharm said:

What i said is 100% the reason that aoe shouldnt be nerfed until the loot system gets looked at. If you cant farm anything in a reasonable amount of time or effort youre simply going to end up with everything taking at least twice as long to farm.. theres literally no up side to nerfing it right now. I agree nuke frames are boring af, its why i main loki, but it's also not fun playing loki if you're going to hunt for the 0.05% drop chance items etc. it's not like enemies are dropping things with every death, they're rarely dropping things, and when they do its even rarer that its the mod etc that you're hunting for. 

I already have a big stash of resources so im okay to build most things, but theres 27 ranks of MR others have to still grind up things for, that's sooo much farming already and you're proposing to increase that grind even more. That sir is the reason it shouldnt be nerfed. 

i understand that, but there is necros, hydroid now even khora which giving you additional loot, + 2 types of boosters so anyway you can get what you want w/o playing with nukes

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, BlackFox66 said:

Easy can play spy on any frame, on eidolon you're playing as operator 80%of the time, tell me 3 cases excalibur, mesa or others dmg frames are more efficient then saryn or equi. Bet u cant because aoe is op and should be nerfed. P.s. read please what the point of conversetion before answering. because youre not in the topic at all

I am on topic - AoE is not ruining the game and is not overpowered. Again, as i mentioned, you can doesn't mean it is the best. You can also kill large amounts of enemies with an Inaros or a Loki, it is just less efficient. As for Eidolons - don't get carried by a Chroma and Volt. Do it solo. It's doable, just not very enjoyable. It's the same. Frames are less efficient at X task than other frames more efficient for X task.

Cases where Saryn and Equi lose out compared to other damage frames:

  1. Sortie Exterminate (or even any Exterminate) - Whipclaw Khora is far superior. Excal and Mesa are still faster and more efficient than Saryn and Equi.
  2. Single Target Damage/Boss - Mesa is far superior if it can be targeted. Otherwise Chroma wins.
  3. Plains/Vallis Bounty - Mesa is superior to Saryn and Equinox.
  4. Large Open maps in Defense/ Interception like Void Defense - enemy density is just not high enough for Saryn to build spore. Equi will have to hunt for enemies. Mesa wins here until the level is too high to matter. Ofc Saryn works if no one KSes you and everyone clumps up inevitably to the middle, but if a good Mesa is there, you can expect low damage.
  5. Arbitration - When everything is immune to spore, it becomes annoying and hard to spread. You CAN play Saryn spore builds and still spread spore, she just isn't very good unless you keep clearing the drones (which you MUST if playing Saryn)
  6. Capture - again, single DPS and running speed wins. Volt/Zephyr/Nova >>> Saryn

Three cases? I give you double.

Edited by Datam4ss
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