AOE RUINING ALL THE GAME

[Guest]

1 hour ago, BlackFox66 said:

1. Exterminate and sortie exterminate is definately eq or saryn wins

I have outdid Saryns and EQ on this multiple times with Khora (61% team damage in a 2x Mesa and 1 Saryn squad) and Chromatic Blade Excal. If you cannot do it, joke's on you. I mentioned this before regarding Khora but you are stuffing your ears.

With Khora I can even leave Equinox with a supercharged maim she can't burst on anything.

I believe my own stat screen more than your wild claims.

1 hour ago, BlackFox66 said:

2. U talking about those 2-3 runs bosses which u can kill by 1 shot?? LOL nice joke

Sargas Ruk, Lech Kril, Eidolons, Lephantis, Wolf of Saturn Six, Profit Taker, Exploiter, Stalker, Hemocyte of Plague Star. Be my guest. Take Saryn/Equinox over Chroma/Titania/Rhinoob for these guys.

I mean when Saryn can put spore on them and do them in faster than Chroma maybe I'll believe you.

1 hour ago, BlackFox66 said:

3. Saryn or equ still can be used on plains or vallis and will be efficient

Have you actually tried Saryn or Equinox on the Plains/OV vs Mesa? It is not efficient to run everywhere to spore and reapply spore again and again as the Mesa literally guns everything down.

Lying through your teeth to validate your argument isn't very smart.

1 hour ago, BlackFox66 said:

4. WHAT LOL, thats the best maps for equi and saryn, just learn what is "range"

When my 280% range equinox build isn't even close to being able to cover the whole map, I do not think putting more range works when I already have MAX POSSIBLE RANGE. I mean, maybe you have a secret method to more than 280% range? Surely I must be doing something wrong right? 50 meters maim isn't gonna be bigger in radius than Mesa's 60 meter search radius.

Low enemy density means Equinox cannot charge her Maim very fast and spore runs out of steam. You were the one who said compare to Mesa and Excal - they are faster than Saryn needing to wait for enemies to clump up and they do not need a Speedva.

Have actually outdone Saryn on these maps with Mesa before so I don't know what you are talking about.

1 hour ago, BlackFox66 said:

5. still not a problem for saryn or equ u just need to use weapons (finally some gameplay for you casuals)

Why would you even use Saryn at this point when you need to use a gun anyway for most of the content? She cannot spread Spore effectively and there are better frame picks with more ability to survive and buff gun damage? The fact a better pick exists means well, a better pick exists and Saryn is not longer best.

I mean why would I see a reason to pick Saryn over say, Inaros, Rhino or Gara? She's more likely to die and has to jump through hoops to even do some damage with her damage centric kit when a good gun and aiming would serve me better in Arbitration.

1 hour ago, BlackFox66 said:

6. you kidding right? 

If you actually wanna kill all the adds in Capture which have no relevance to the mission whatsoever, then that's your problem. A frame that runs fast >>>> killing all the adds pointlessly that doesn't help mission completion. You cannot even spore the capture target, so...

I mean, sure, capture mission is about killing large numbers of enemies and NOT capturing that one guy!

1 hour ago, BlackFox66 said:

It is the best and its ruining all other dmg frames, telling you in 1000 time we're taling about efficiency of dmg and saryn or equi are winning it in almost every single missions
are you those type of guy who cant see the obvious things and will come up with compleatly dumb cases just to prove he is right? If so please dont reply me 

Actually, if you are going to lie, dismiss real and provable facts, distort mission objectives to prove your point and not actually be open to any point of view other than your own narrow definition, you shouldn't even stop replying to me. You should just leave with all your self righteousness and "it's my way or the highway" thoughts.

I didn't even bother to mention spy or any mission type not about damage. Nobody CARES if Saryn can top the damage chart in say Capture or Spy - she is still being extra and useless. You can go take your Warframe knowledge and apply to be a doctor using said knowledge alone. I am sure the hospital won't hire you because your skillset is not relevant.

Even in the DPS frame realm, Saryn is NOT always the best.

Get over your hot need for epeen and your obsession with the end stats screen just because you see the Saryn with 60% damage all the time. I don't need you complaining about my Whipclaw Khora or Chromatic Excal if Saryn really gets the short end of the stick. Heck, I don't even need you to complain about them if your Saryn gets outdone by them in the specific circumstances they win.

Edited April 13, 2019 by Guest

[BlackFox66]

19 minutes ago, Datam4ss said:

I have outdid Saryns and EQ on this multiple times with Khora (61% team damage in a 2x Mesa and 1 Saryn squad) and Chromatic Blade Excal. If you cannot do it, joke's on you. I mentioned this before regarding Khora but you are stuffing your ears.

With Khora I can even leave Equinox with a supercharged maim she can't burst on anything.

I believe my own stat screen more than your wild claims.

Sargas Ruk, Lech Kril, Eidolons, Lephantis, Wolf of Saturn Six, Profit Taker, Exploiter, Stalker, Hemocyte of Plague Star. Be my guest. Take Saryn/Equinox over Chroma/Titania/Rhinoob for these guys.

I mean when Saryn can put spore on them and do them in faster than Chroma maybe I'll believe you.

Have you actually tried Saryn or Equinox on the Plains/OV vs Mesa? It is not efficient to run everywhere to spore and reapply spore again and again as the Mesa literally guns everything down.

Lying through your teeth to validate your argument isn't very smart.

When my 280% range equinox build isn't even close to being able to cover the whole map, I do not think putting more range works when I already have MAX POSSIBLE RANGE. I mean, maybe you have a secret method to more than 280% range? Surely I must be doing something wrong right? 50 meters maim isn't gonna be bigger in radius than Mesa's 60 meter search radius.

Low enemy density means Equinox cannot charge her Maim very fast and spore runs out of steam. You were the one who said compare to Mesa and Excal - they are faster than Saryn needing to wait for enemies to clump up and they do not need a Speedva.

Why would you even use Saryn at this point when you need to use a gun anyway for most of the content? She cannot spread Spore effectively and there are better frame picks with more ability to survive and buff gun damage? The fact a better pick exists means well, a better pick exists and Saryn is not longer best.

I mean why would I see a reason to pick Saryn over say, Inaros, Rhino or Gara? She's more likely to die and has to jump through hoops to even do some damage with her damage centric kit when a good gun and aiming would serve me better in Arbitration.

If you actually wanna kill all the adds in Capture which have no relevance to the mission whatsoever, then that's your problem. A frame that runs fast >>>> killing all the adds pointlessly that doesn't help mission completion. You cannot even spore the capture target, so...

I mean, sure, capture mission is about killing large numbers of enemies and NOT capturing that one guy!

Actually, if you are going to lie, dismiss real and provable facts, distort mission objectives to prove your point and not actually be open to any point of view other than your own narrow definition, you shouldn't even stop replying to me. You should just leave with all your self righteousness and "it's my way or the highway" thoughts.

I didn't even bother to mention spy or any mission type not about damage. Nobody CARES if Saryn can top the damage chart in say Capture or Spy - she is still being extra and useless. You can go take your Warframe knowledge and apply to be a doctor using said knowledge alone. I am sure the hospital won't hire you because your skillset is not relevant.

Get over your hot need for epeen and your obsession with the end stats screen just because you see the Saryn with 60% damage all the time. I don't need you complaining about my Whipclaw Khora or Chromatic Excal if Saryn really gets the short end of the stick. Heck, I don't even need you to complain about them if your Saryn gets outdone by them in the specific circumstances they win.

idk youre doing this by purpose or what, THE POINT IS "IF U CAN PRESS 1 BUTTON AND WIN THE GAME THATS NOT OK" and idk why you everytime giving me an examle other frames on some boss fights or SPY AND CAPTURE MISSION, LOL IF WE ARE TALKING ABOUT DMG EFFICIENCY, DAMAGE EFFICIENCY, which means you cannot deal more damage on other frames then saryn JUST PRESSING 1 BUTTON, and yours "Dont look at mission stats at the end" is stupid because if u can deal more damage by pressing 1 button then the guy using everything - its abuse and op. I want to enjoy the game and being efficient and this is impossible when nuke frames exist.  Lets look from your point. When you overdamaging saryn as mesa or exscalibur or khora you actually have to pay attention to the game because if not you will die, and as saryn you can kill enemies throw the walls which is stupid, and if u answer me 1 more time with examples like "capture, spy, terra" ill consider you as troll. Once more THE POINT IS  "IF YOU CAN PRESS 1 BUTTON AND DELETE THE MAP" ITS OP AND STUPID AND SHOULD BE REMOVED. Your "Facts" isnt explaining why "Press 4 to win" is enjoyable gameplay

P.S. Sorry for grammar not a native eng speaker

Edited April 13, 2019 by BlackFox66

[(PSN)RenovaKunumaru]

14 hours ago, BlackFox66 said:

they are but they cant kill the entire map by pressing 1 button, u have to play the game at least

I;m not suggesting the nuke frames arent OP, Im just saying that certain frames, even the non damaging one (Limbo) are also well in for a nerf.

[BlackFox66]

1 minute ago, (PS4)RenovaKunumaru said:

I;m not suggesting the nuke frames arent OP, Im just saying that certain frames, even the non damaging one (Limbo) are also well in for a nerf.

agreed

[000l000]

As long as the mission is successful i don't mind. Playing solo is always an option though and tbh i wouldn't bring a Saryn on a spy mission. 😛

You don't have any issue with frames kit but with people behaviour. Once again you can't blame DE when players are pressing the button. If i'm playing Saryn i'm doing a lot of damages but i'm not stealing every kill, one just needs to not spam stupidly his 4 key - Sadly this game isn't stupidity proof.

Nowadays people are basically playing solo in online games, just try any kind of survival mission and you'll see players who try to monopolize their own tiletset to get their own kills. Perhaps one should teach them what coop means - Good times ! 😅

Edited April 13, 2019 by 000l000

[BlackFox66]

32 minutes ago, 000l000 said:

As long as the mission is successful i don't mind. Playing solo is always an option though and tbh i wouldn't bring a Saryn on a spy mission. 😛

You don't have any issue with frames kit but with people behaviour. Once again you can't blame DE when players are pressing the button. If i'm playing Saryn i'm doing a lot of damages but i'm not stealing every kill, one just needs to not spam stupidly his 4 key - Sadly this game isn't stupidity proof.

Nowadays people are basically playing solo in online games, just try any kind of survival mission and you'll see players who try to monopolize their own tiletset to get their own kills. Perhaps one should teach them what coop means - Good times ! 😅

its the perfect argument for dice or valve LOL, "the problem is not that we have bad anti-cheat system the problem is in people behavior which are using cheats" :D
the press button to win should not be ever exist
i dont mind someone dealing more damage then me or stealing kills but if someone afk pressing 1 button and delete map that look stupid abusive and op

Edited April 13, 2019 by BlackFox66

[Gawizard]

OP, I already told you, AoE Frames arent the problem, its enemy variety, Tel me ONE Enemy that you encounter regularly that isnt affected by just pressing 4. Now, tell me how much are countered by pressing 4. See which outweighs which and you'll see why AoE nuke frames are in season.

[BlackFox66]

11 minutes ago, Gawizard said:

OP, I already told you, AoE Frames arent the problem, its enemy variety, Tel me ONE Enemy that you encounter regularly that isnt affected by just pressing 4. Now, tell me how much are countered by pressing 4. See which outweighs which and you'll see why AoE nuke frames are in season.

You dont need to have 20 varieties if u can just fix stupid press 4 to win 
The problem is "PRESS BUTTON TO WIN" is exist 
And its ruining all the gameplay, even if there will be a 2000 varieties and 1500 of them nuke frames cant kill still those nuke thing is stupid because those 500 will die from the character which is just spamming 1 button somewhere 1km away, like there is no chance for the enemy at all 

[BlackFox66]

1 minute ago, Gawizard said:

have you even taken to time to think about what i said? Honestly you seen irate because someone is more efficient than you. I bet you despise Spin 2 Win.

There is nothing to think, and if youre talking about revenant yes its stupid too, and im not mad because someone is more efficient then me, i want to play a decent game with decent balance w/o stupid abusive mechanics

[Gawizard]

Just now, BlackFox66 said:

and if youre talking about revenant yes its stupid too

No im talking about Spin 2 Win with Melees

 

 

1 minute ago, BlackFox66 said:

and im not mad because someone is more efficient then me, i want to play a decent game with decent balance w/o stupid abusive mechanics

With Warframes Grindly nature? How much hours do you have in the game? By about 1000 hours or so youll realize how a "press 4 to win" frame is essential for getting what you want done.

Again the problem isnt the frames, Its the enemies. Ever realized that an Ancient Healer or a Nullifier drastically reduces kills per Second for these frames? Now how often do they spawn compared to Rank and File enemies (adds)?

 

[Swagernator22663]

OP just go and catch some fishes and do some plushies hunt, thats for you.

 

Also why was my post removed ? 

Edited April 13, 2019 by Swagernator22663

[BlackFox66]

2 minutes ago, Gawizard said:

No im talking about Spin 2 Win with Melees

yes i messedge before that miam strike is abusive as well and i heard that de is thinking about fixing and im glad
 

 

3 minutes ago, Gawizard said:

With Warframes Grindly nature? How much hours do you have in the game? By about 1000 hours or so youll realize how a "press 4 to win" frame is essential for getting what you want done.

i have 1k+ hours and the more hours you get the more you want to enjoy the game not pressing 1-2 button
i want to see good gameplay not fast boring runs

[Gawizard]

To be fair, theres always the solo play option.

also yeah, nice to know some people can be honest on this site, you've just hit the 1k mark.

[BlackFox66]

1 minute ago, Gawizard said:

To be fair, theres always the solo play option.

also yeah, nice to know some people can be honest on this site, you've just hit the 1k mark.

solo isnt efficient in some missions, and we're talking about interesting but efficient gameplay and its impossible when nuke frames exist because they will alway be more efficient then others

[Gawizard]

So, then they could maybe, i dont know, change the way how enemies work?
Maybe add some more enemy variety?
To be efficient at something really requires you to do an action to something, DE has nerfed Press 4 to Win frames (Banshee and Ember) now look where they are. You wont get anything better if you nerf them, its better to change enemies so 99% of them dont die to "press 4 to win"

 

[BlackFox66]

1 minute ago, Gawizard said:

So, then they could maybe, i dont know, change the way how enemies work?
Maybe add some more enemy variety?
To be efficient at something really requires you to do an action to something, DE has nerfed Press 4 to Win frames (Banshee and Ember) now look where they are. You wont get anything better if you nerf them, its better to change enemies so 99% of them dont die to "press 4 to win"

 

the problem is if you will add more varieti enemy then u cant solo, because you will always need to have someone against some type of enemy, i preffer useless saryn/equi then press button to win ones

[Gawizard]

Having the enemy variety differ according to squad size is nothing new in Warframe, in hydron if you're solo-ing it and struggling to clear enemies, eximus enemies wont spawn until you go onto wave 6, and noxes only spawn on wave 11 and up, Its the same principle here. Just make the more common enemies spawn with a drop of the other ones in solo.

[BlackFox66]

2 minutes ago, Gawizard said:

Having the enemy variety differ according to squad size is nothing new in Warframe, in hydron if you're solo-ing it and struggling to clear enemies, eximus enemies wont spawn until you go onto wave 6, and noxes only spawn on wave 11 and up, Its the same principle here. Just make the more common enemies spawn with a drop of the other ones in solo.

you're right at some point i see but i prefer not to have 1 button gameplay 

[Basalto]

I'd like to mention the only Banshee I've seen in the past who-knows-how-many months was me, and that my abilities themselves never did the damage, but my guns, which were buffed by sonar and still crippled by a Saryn spamming spores and miasma, since aiming for a glowing spot in each enemy is harder than tapping 1, shooting a single bullet and then tapping 4 to nuke even what no one can see. Although yeah, the game's design sucks and all that.

[Solarsyphon]

3 hours ago, Basalto said:

I'd like to mention the only Banshee I've seen in the past who-knows-how-many months was me, and that my abilities themselves never did the damage, but my guns, which were buffed by sonar and still crippled by a Saryn spamming spores and miasma, since aiming for a glowing spot in each enemy is harder than tapping 1, shooting a single bullet and then tapping 4 to nuke even what no one can see. Although yeah, the game's design sucks and all that.

Sonar is a team buff that also effects abilities. You multiplied the saryns damage by like 5 and your complaining it was too much. 

[Verytis]

Personally, I think all the simple "press 4 to nuke" abilities is 1 of those things that discourage the kind of "co-op" gameplay DE intended. It really is just 1 person doing dmg with possibly 1 support while the rest twindle their thumbs. Besides endgame content like eidolon and orb, the game doesn't require an actual a full squad working.

I could enter enter a mission and eat my meal while my buddy use a nuke frame, then we swap roles and repeat, while chatting. For things like open world bounties, I honestly believe only half the team should go work for it, the rest can do other things.

When we're completely overpowered, there is only 2 real types of enemies. There are those that die to our nukes, and there are those that we need to pull a gun out for.

[Basalto]

1 hour ago, Solarsyphon said:

Sonar is a team buff that also effects abilities. You multiplied the saryns damage by like 5 and your complaining it was too much. 

Oh great, so the easiest Warframe to deal damage with can deal even more damage and sonar's glowing spots are just bullS#&$. No wonder people don't use Banshee.

[Solarsyphon]

1 hour ago, Basalto said:

Oh great, so the easiest Warframe to deal damage with can deal even more damage and sonar's glowing spots are just bullS#&$. No wonder people don't use Banshee.

Lmao the damage buff is exactly why people use banshee. You don't do the team thing well do you? 

[Basalto]

1 minute ago, Solarsyphon said:

Lmao the damage buff is exactly why people use banshee. You don't do the team thing well do you? 

As well as you do condescending insulting, I guess. Banshee is unnecessary in this game because players already can shoot their damage to absurd numbers effortlessly. If there was a need for support, this game wouldn't have Saryn and Mesa spamming 4 as meta.

[Madway7]

I know this is a slippery slope argument, but this can easy go down a very bad rabbit hole.

First starting with AoE abilities killing enemies too fast, then moving on to hard (or some soft such as Nova's 4) cc being too good, then going on to some frames being too tanky. Then probably moving on to weapons.

I think the essence of your issue is that AoE damage in some frame abilities (possibly weapons) make the game trivial. (Correct me if I'm wrong)

If so yes, the game was designed around the simple mechanic of killing enemies, just in a variety of ways. DE had a choice to either make us feel like gods killing mass amounts of enemies or to slow down the pace and focus around more strategic or harder combat. They chose so far to keep the first option because of 1 reason.

It works. It's worked for them for so long and more and more people started to play and kept playing for 1 reason. It's fun. 

Yeah, it's subjective on what you find fun. You can find a Saryn killing everything the worst thing in the world while I just chill and try to enjoy the game regardless.

But what this boils down to is a big change, because there was once a time where stuff like ability cooldowns existed and melee was severely limited by stamina. With just a few changes we could go back to those times and just have more options, it might work it might not. Point is it's a big risk, mostly because enemies are getting more and more designed to counter what we can do, including aoe spams, and one big problem is that DE would have to readjust everything from enemy scaling, possibly armor scaling, enemy mechanics WHILE ALSO making sure the game is maintained relatively the same so they don't lose their core audience.

OR they could do things like nerf Mesas 4 so the reticle is always small, make Saryns 1 and 4 do no damage, give Maim damage falloff etc. And while these would solve your issue they would also ruin the enjoyment a lot of people get out of playing these frames. 

 

11 hours ago, BlackFox66 said:

i understand that, but there is necros, hydroid now even khora which giving you additional loot, + 2 types of boosters so anyway you can get what you want w/o playing with nukes

And all of these are AoE, and if you don't mean these count please change the title to "AOE DAMAGE ABILITIES are ruining all the game" not just AoE.

Also these abilities don't work well if you couldn't kill in an AoE, Khora can use her 1 to kill enemies in Strangledome in an AoE, enemies caught by Hydroids tentacles are just hard to hit with non AoE weapons and Nekros relies on mass killing to be efficient.

 

6 hours ago, BlackFox66 said:

solo isnt efficient in some missions, and we're talking about interesting but efficient gameplay and its impossible when nuke frames exist because they will alway be more efficient then others

The devs had said they plan to maybe add better spawns comparable to that of 4 player spawns for solo players in one devstream this year (not sure which)

My advice to you is try to play with friends, when I play with mine we usually take random inefficient frames for the sake of it or we take the meta which varies. 

In the end, while I agree with what you're saying to some extent, the way I see it nerfing AoE abilities would have to come with major enemy and gameplay changes, changes that DE would risk ruining what makes warframe fun for a lot of players. 

 

Hope nothing got lost in translation.