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AOE RUINING ALL THE GAME


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27 minutes ago, Basalto said:

all you can do is throw around insults, which is just shameful.

2 hours ago, Basalto said:

this is not your bedroom for you to just behave like a $&*^ arbitrarily.

I didn't mean to offend you I think you should read over what was said again.  As for the issue at hand, Saying nuke = popularity is overly simplistic when rhino and loki clearly break that trend. I think  Vauban is unpopular not because he doesn't do damage but because he is a relic of corridor camping, sitting there and shooting helpless enemies.  While the popular frames are popular because they have depth and they are flashy, Equinox has the most abilities in the game, Saryn and volt has some of the most synergistic abilities in game. Rhino has some of the most synergistic augments in the game and loki has the greatest depth on control of AI in the game. These frames are not press 4 to win frames that was the old days when cc was popular there is a reason why people call molecular prime easy mode.  The popular thing at the moment is synergy and that is why these frames are popular. 

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12 minutes ago, Solarsyphon said:

I didn't mean to offend you I think you should read over what was said again.  As for the issue at hand, Saying nuke = popularity is overly simplistic when rhino and loki clearly break that trend. I think  Vauban is unpopular not because he doesn't do damage but because he is a relic of corridor camping, sitting there and shooting helpless enemies.  While the popular frames are popular because they have depth and they are flashy, Equinox has the most abilities in the game, Saryn and volt has some of the most synergistic abilities in game. Rhino has some of the most synergistic augments in the game and loki has the greatest depth on control of AI in the game. These frames are not press 4 to win frames that was the old days when cc was popular there is a reason why people call molecular prime easy mode.  The popular thing at the moment is synergy and that is why these frames are popular. 

Rhino and Loki are on my "you better do something" list, since their designs are pretty much unchanged across the years, while we got better frames being released time after time. Things like radial disarm spam and invisibility are pretty much dead, since slide attacks are overpowered enough to not need invisibility and radial disarm spam in lots of missions just makes ranged and melee enemies mingle together, and you're suddendly getting shot at from somewhere you believed you just disarmed, which gets combined with Loki's low defenses and you're basically dead. Then we have Rhino being that one noob tank that people use more to carry them through the star chart, than to actually do tanking, since Chroma, Mesa (even Mesa), Nezha, Inaros and many other warframes just offer better tanking, and Rhino's roar is unfortunately not enough to shift the favor back to him, considering the one man army builds. Sure, the damage boost is fun and cool, but it's not something build their equipment around, thinking "I don't need to put that much damage, since I'll have a Rhino to buff me" or something. Loki could be the king of the battlefield and Rhino could take people to Knockdown City, but that just doesn't really do too well in the end. It goes back to damage: Rhino doesn't need to tank if there's nothing to shoot at him; Loki doesn't need to disarm enemies if they don't exist in the realm of the living anymore.

If there's something I genuinely dislike, it is to have synergy locked behind augments, like Rhino's charge's augment being able to work in conjunction with iron skin for a bigger initial value, but the player needing to use a mod slot for it, which in turn means "make your ability into a different ability for it to not suck", at which point it just raises questions about the original ability and why it's even a thing.

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3 hours ago, (XB1)Zweimander said:

The main point of contention for me was the range nerf to her spores honestly. That is her bread and butter and greatly reducing the range would make her not just less effective but way less effective. You already have to move around a bunch to keep her spores spread on some tile sets as is and it would make it even harder for her to keep her build up damage then it is on some tile sets already (Especially in ESO). Plus I like to Misama from time to time to kill heavier units from time to time if I have the spare energy and spread spores if no other enemies are around, But I digress. Opinions will be opinions after all.

Nerfing the range had to be done if they were going to keep in infinite damage scaling...and it inflicts Corrosive status...and she can also do Viral status AOE on demand...like, there's really no reason to be complaining about going from "definitely OP" to "still OP but you at least have to move around to keep the spores going now".

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1 hour ago, Basalto said:

If there's something I genuinely dislike, it is to have synergy locked behind augments, like Rhino's charge's augment being able to work in conjunction with iron skin for a bigger initial value, but the player needing to use a mod slot for it, which in turn means "make your ability into a different ability for it to not suck", at which point it just raises questions about the original ability and why it's even a thing.

I really agree. If it were up to me, I would simply remove augment mods from the game and instead add their effects to the weapons & abilities, baseline. (Perhaps picking and choosing in some cases, but I digress).

It feels like a band-aid to indecisive design on DE's part, that will only rarely stand up to other mods that could be put in those slots thanks to the overall modding power-spike problem.

Alternatively I might add "Augment slots" that can be attached to a Warframe, using a new Augment Adapter craftable item (who should sell the blueprint, I wonder?), that allows you to add up to 4 augment slots to a Warframe, dependent on how many Forma has been attached to it (1-4 forma depending on how many augments you want). That way, if you manage to squeeze the extra mod capacity to fit an Augment, you could do so that way without setting yourself at a severe disadvantage compared to a non-augmented build.

Hell, one could even just go back to older days of Warframe and grant all Warframes 10 mod slots again instead of the current 8.

There's several options and alternatives to pick from that I feel are superior to the status quo.

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4 minutes ago, TheGreenFellow said:

 Nerfing the range had to be done if they were going to keep in infinite damage scaling...and it inflicts Corrosive status...and she can also do Viral status AOE on demand...like, there's really no reason to be complaining about going from "definitely OP" to "still OP but you at least have to move around to keep the spores going now".

Actually I am fine with where sayrn is at the moment but I was noting the fact that with the change OP suggested it would be reduced even more. To get her spores to be strong and have good range you have to sacrifice efficiency and can barely have positive duration so in my opinion Sayrn is right where she needs to be at the moment and the benchmark for damage frames with her excellent scaling. Every damage frame should have some form of scaling damage and that goes without saying because no one plays DPS frames with static damage or even frames like ember after DE took the nuclear route with her nerfs and made her a far worse warframe. Where as frames like Mesa, Equinox and Sayrn see the most use out of all DPS frames due to their mix of good scaling damage and utility/DR on top of everything else. You already have enough upkeep on Sayrn's spores depending on the Tile set as is and any nerfs would break her effeciency which is not free even now.

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3 hours ago, Datam4ss said:

this is a reflection of Niche X being more popular than Niche Y.

Killing things in a horde shooter is not a "niche".

Your argument is a non sequitur, this has nothing to do with F1 cars vs Drag racers. This has nothing to do with niches. There is no logical basis for arguing that killing enemies is a "niche" way of playing the game.

This is Warframe, built to be a horde shooter. There are frames that kill hordes all by their lonesome without needing to shoot or have any teammates. This is, in essence, completely antithetical to the "cooperative horde shooter" the game strives to be.

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6 hours ago, Datam4ss said:

You are not lazy to reply. You have no more valid arguments left based on hard in game evidence when I have presented things that are based on actually playing. You already resorted to Ad Hominem statements earlier and I didn't even bother to address them.

The whole thread is just because you dislike Playstyle X and only want people to play your way. Again, it is the same rehash of "my way or the highway" disguised in a rather tired manner.

This is why all you can do is dismiss the argument.

Nerfing anything is pretty dumb when the cause of those being the top picks is the nature of content that appeals to MR25++. You can present the statistics, but the facile interpretation of them made is quite shallow, in essence.

There is no point treating things symptomatically - the root cause is the gameplay loop and what people expect from the game. I am not saying that the root cause has to be treated in the first place, but since I have already showed all frames have a Niche, this is a reflection of Niche X being more popular than Niche Y.

And there is nothing wrong if people like Game mode X more than Game mode Y, and Frame X just happens to be good at Game mode X. Again, if people like to drive F1, nerfing F1 cars to make Drag Racing more popular will fail. People won't switch to Dragsters.

Should we nerf chocolate ice cream's flavour just to make strawberry ice cream taste better or vanilla ice cream more popular?

 

i dont want to answer all of thet because its stupid arguments which have no point when we talk about press 1 button to delete the map oh sometimes you need to press 1 and 3, but most of the times u can do it with closed eyes, and lol i can say the same "if you like pressing 1 button and enjoying that gameplay it does not mean other people like it too" so think about it. And btw i rly confused why would someone like those type of gameplay, well i got your point but its not proving im wrong.
And ofcource op frame will be on the top stats its only proving its op
The only thing i think we have that poor balance is because the game is in beta and i hope it will be fixed and nothing bad happends if those 1 button smashers will quit the game i think it will be better for community imo

Edited by BlackFox66
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Il y a 18 heures, BlackFox66 a dit :

its the perfect argument for dice or valve LOL, "the problem is not that we have bad anti-cheat system the problem is in people behavior which are using cheats" 😄
the press button to win should not be ever exist
i dont mind someone dealing more damage then me or stealing kills but if someone afk pressing 1 button and delete map that look stupid abusive and op

Then DE should get rid of half frames 4th, melee weapons since spin-2-win is almost as bad and every single AoE weapon such as Amprex, Ignis or Larkspur, that's a lot of things to remove !

But once again, i've played myself with this weapons and skills and played with people using these too and as long as the player isn't a selfish idiot running around trying to get all kills, everything is fine. Problem with such debate is that people will always be complaining about anything, and some contents really need us to be able to clean rooms fast and clear so nerfing this abilities/items wouldn't solve anything. There's another thing to consider, spamming Saryn 4th costs a lot of energy so maybe there's an issue with players being able to spam expensive powers all day long (energize arcane for example). Sancturay tried to fix that in adding a CD if used too many times, there's no need to nerf everything then.

I don't know about you but i certainly won't be running a Sanctuary with a short range & slow weapon along with a frame with no decent AoE powers. Good luck with high level content too, most people who are complaining about Saryn never did try to kill some level 160 Grineers in some long enough Survival mission - This frame does not have balance issues, but scaling issues. She's performing quite well but way too much at low levels.

Edited by 000l000
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8 minutes ago, 000l000 said:

Then DE should get rid of half frames 4th, melee weapons since spin-2-win is almost as bad and every single AoE weapon such as Amprex, Ignis or Larkspur, that's a lot of things to remove !

But once again, i've played myself with this weapons and skills and played with people using these too and as long as the player isn't a selfish idiot running around trying to get all kills, everything is fine. Problem with such debate is that people will always be complaining about anything, and some contents really need us to be able to clean rooms fast and clear so nerfing this abilities/items wouldn't solve anything. There's another thing to consider, spamming Saryn 4th costs a lot of energy so maybe there's an issue with players being able to spam expensive powers all day long (energize arcane for example). Sancturay tried to fix that in adding a CD if used too many times, there's no need to nerf everything then.

I don't know about you but i certainly won't be running a Sanctuary with a short range & slow weapon along with a frame with no decent AoE powers. Good luck with high level content too, most people who are complaining about Saryn never did try to kill some level 160 Grineers in some long enough Survival mission - This frame does not have balance issues, but scaling issues. She's performing quite well but way too much at low levels.

Well why someone could not kill all map if he can? Sure he will do it, and you will do it, ill do it, just because you can, so its not about people behaviour its about balance, and if think on that way i think energize isnt the proplem the proplem is fleeting expertise

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il y a 27 minutes, BlackFox66 a dit :

Well why someone could not kill all map if he can? Sure he will do it, and you will do it, ill do it, just because you can, so its not about people behaviour its about balance, and if think on that way i think energize isnt the proplem the proplem is fleeting expertise

No offense but it's as constructive as trying to fight theft by cutting all people arms off.

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11 minutes ago, 000l000 said:

I won't. Don't think everyone is stupid because you met an idiot ingame an hour ago. There's a lot of hate and frustration in games nowadays, i've played with a Saryn a few hours ago, she wasn't spamming her 4th all day long - and every single team isn't full of nukers either. Sure many players are doing that but once again, you can't see what's really wrong in this game, hence players not skills. Fleeting expertise isn't much of an issue, i don't play much with this mod and could nuke everything anytime.

And, once again, if i have to play with someone i can't stand i just leave or play with my wife/solo, you can play with Clan members too. PUG was fun when players weren't as selfish, frustrated and agressive as now, playing a coop game now needs some concessions - and quite funnily modern players don't want to make concessions either. Better play solo or with friends only at this point tbh. 😅

But please no more "remove everything i don't like for any random reasons", it's as worthless as trying to fight theft by cutting all people arms off.

1. why do you consider someone as idiot if he is using game mechanics? The problem is actually that u can do that
2.Its not about i dont like it its about balance in the game
3.not using op characters isnt solving the problem

Edited by BlackFox66
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 Not all missions are good for Nukers and the high popularity of rhino and Loki suggest this idea of a purely nuke meta is wrong. Maybe there is a specific node your playing filled with nukers or something but its not a problem I see mentioned outside of forums  at all. Just think about it how do you know the nukes are the driving forces behinds the trends? If maim was the reason equinox was popular why wouldn't nyx be popular with absorb a similar ability that absorbs damage and creates a nuke? Why isn't Gara popular with her splinter storm that can easily do tens of thousands of k damage a sec in an aura around her? if its a simple push 4 to win why aren't we seeing the old hall way camping strategies? 

4 hours ago, TheGreenFellow said:

I really agree. If it were up to me, I would simply remove augment mods from the game and instead add their effects to the weapons & abilities, baseline. (Perhaps picking and choosing in some cases, but I digress).

I'd like that. Rhino needs that added complexity and synergy from its augments to be fun. Im kind of sad they got rid of ability mods all those years ago because I keep thinking what if they were going to do ability swapping or something. Like multiple abilities to choose from on each frame. Looks like they've settled on the  release new frames strategy instead.

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21 hours ago, Datam4ss said:

I have outdid Saryns and EQ on this multiple times with Khora (61% team damage in a 2x Mesa and 1 Saryn squad) and Chromatic Blade Excal. If you cannot do it, joke's on you. I mentioned this before regarding Khora but you are stuffing your ears.

With Khora I can even leave Equinox with a supercharged maim she can't burst on anything.

I believe my own stat screen more than your wild claims.

Sargas Ruk, Lech Kril, Eidolons, Lephantis, Wolf of Saturn Six, Profit Taker, Exploiter, Stalker, Hemocyte of Plague Star. Be my guest. Take Saryn/Equinox over Chroma/Titania/Rhinoob for these guys.

I mean when Saryn can put spore on them and do them in faster than Chroma maybe I'll believe you.

Have you actually tried Saryn or Equinox on the Plains/OV vs Mesa? It is not efficient to run everywhere to spore and reapply spore again and again as the Mesa literally guns everything down.

Lying through your teeth to validate your argument isn't very smart.

When my 280% range equinox build isn't even close to being able to cover the whole map, I do not think putting more range works when I already have MAX POSSIBLE RANGE. I mean, maybe you have a secret method to more than 280% range? Surely I must be doing something wrong right? 50 meters maim isn't gonna be bigger in radius than Mesa's 60 meter search radius.

Low enemy density means Equinox cannot charge her Maim very fast and spore runs out of steam. You were the one who said compare to Mesa and Excal - they are faster than Saryn needing to wait for enemies to clump up and they do not need a Speedva.

Have actually outdone Saryn on these maps with Mesa before so I don't know what you are talking about.

Why would you even use Saryn at this point when you need to use a gun anyway for most of the content? She cannot spread Spore effectively and there are better frame picks with more ability to survive and buff gun damage? The fact a better pick exists means well, a better pick exists and Saryn is not longer best.

I mean why would I see a reason to pick Saryn over say, Inaros, Rhino or Gara? She's more likely to die and has to jump through hoops to even do some damage with her damage centric kit when a good gun and aiming would serve me better in Arbitration.

If you actually wanna kill all the adds in Capture which have no relevance to the mission whatsoever, then that's your problem. A frame that runs fast >>>> killing all the adds pointlessly that doesn't help mission completion. You cannot even spore the capture target, so...

I mean, sure, capture mission is about killing large numbers of enemies and NOT capturing that one guy!

Actually, if you are going to lie, dismiss real and provable facts, distort mission objectives to prove your point and not actually be open to any point of view other than your own narrow definition, you shouldn't even stop replying to me. You should just leave with all your self righteousness and "it's my way or the highway" thoughts.

I didn't even bother to mention spy or any mission type not about damage. Nobody CARES if Saryn can top the damage chart in say Capture or Spy - she is still being extra and useless. You can go take your Warframe knowledge and apply to be a doctor using said knowledge alone. I am sure the hospital won't hire you because your skillset is not relevant.

Even in the DPS frame realm, Saryn is NOT always the best.

Get over your hot need for epeen and your obsession with the end stats screen just because you see the Saryn with 60% damage all the time. I don't need you complaining about my Whipclaw Khora or Chromatic Excal if Saryn really gets the short end of the stick. Heck, I don't even need you to complain about them if your Saryn gets outdone by them in the specific circumstances they win.

May I please see your Khora build? Please. Please. Please.

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Yes there is this thing called common sense i can grab saryn jump in lvl 5 grineer def and you not gonna see single mob in 50 waves if i wanted to. 

So yeah its all about ppl, yes you can spamm the sht out of dps frames its just about users playing them. Also if you hate dps frames so much, just play solo or try recruitment chat or find/play with FRIENDS/CLANNIES. Or simply if you see saryn going ham on killing, just abort mission and join different team.

Also i farm loads of fissures (all types) and you guys simply exaggerating. All this whining about dps frames is getting old. Saryn/equi nuking is nothing new yet you see 2 threads about it everyday please STAHP!

Its all just yours newbie point of view and since you do just low lvl content dps frames can obviously obliterate such low lvl mobs. I dont see any saryn/equi in arbitration nuking like there is no tomorrow (actually i had few saryns in arbi def both died before we got to first rotation haha, well they were some mr18 who though they gonna nuke whole map, yeh not gonna happen hahaaa, for such content you have to sacrifice dps for survivability btw). 

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4 hours ago, DeMonkey said:

Killing things in a horde shooter is not a "niche".

When a large amount of game mods state that the objective doesn't involve any killing, I would see it as a specific niche that does not require a dedicated person to fill in said game modes. You do not need a Saryn or Equinox in Spy or Capture, as many have already mentioned in countless threads scattered across the forum. You do not need a Saryn to help you kill Sargas Ruk or Tridolon faster.

You CAN kill things that are around but nobody is better off when the things are dead or alive. There is no necessity to map wipe in many circumstances.

Since killing things is only required under specific circumstances, why would it not be a "niche" filled in by a group of DPS frames that ... I don't know, DPS.

4 hours ago, DeMonkey said:

This is Warframe, built to be a horde shooter. There are frames that kill hordes all by their lonesome without needing to shoot or have any teammates. This is, in essence, completely antithetical to the "cooperative horde shooter" the game strives to be.

Given the number of Solo players, I don't really see the "cooperative horde shooter" aspect. Cooperation in Warframe is an optional thing that makes most gameplay easier, but is not compulsory, or they wouldn't give you the options to not engage in it. Just because a couple of Nightwave Challenges ask you to do it with one friend more doesn't automatically make it "collaborative" or "cooperative".

Also, Horde Shooter, as mentioned, requires killing of Hordes at a reasonable speed. If they only give you tools that kill enemies one by one or at a dawdling pace, that makes for a pretty dumb design philosophy, IMO.

1 hour ago, BlackFox66 said:

we talk about press 1 button to delete the map oh sometimes you need to press 1 and 3, but most of the times u can do it with closed eyes.

You really don't play Saryn and just hate her. You have to press the 1, shoot the guy with the one on them after pressing 3, shoot the other people with Spore. You don't even need to press 4 unless you really see high enemy density like ESO because otherwise it screws up the transmission of spore. If you use Saryn to map wipe with 4 and leave nothing alive, you are wasting damage. That and if you build for Spore and Miasma, prepare to jump around and run everywhere because you need to put spore on new clumps that somehow avoided the original (and this requires LoS) ... and can't let enemies even sneeze on you.

Equinox needs herself and her team to keep killing using guns and/or powers to charge up Maim. Alone and with a crappy gun she is worse than Saryn and is basically carried by her team mates.

The only frame who really can get away with 4 spam is Volt, but even then he needs positioning to get the most damage out of his 4.

I mean, I sure didn't know you can shoot with eyes closed or position the frame, but maybe you have extrasensory perception and I am just a normal human.

1 hour ago, BlackFox66 said:

lol i can say the same "if you like pressing 1 button and enjoying that gameplay it does not mean other people like it too" so think about it. And btw i rly confused why would someone like those type of gameplay, well i got your point but its not proving im wrong.

As much as that vet i know who quit cannot understand why you all want to shoot, or press 3 buttons on Saryn 3.0 rather than 1 button on Saryn 1.0 with min duration, or use Mag for anything more than Shield Polarize that was removed.

People can like what they want to like. If say, you liked some exotic Green Skin Space Girl it's none of my business and I can't say no. But if I like normal human girls again you cannot say I am wrong.

It is not even proving that you are wrong that is necessary here. It is simply proving that your proposed changes will not be welcome by a significant proportion of people. Which means it is not a legitimate suggestion, because it does not benefit the majority, only the vocal minority you represent. I mean, I am not the only Naysayer on this thread. It's pretty obvious.

1 hour ago, BlackFox66 said:

And ofcource op frame will be on the top stats its only proving its op

Of course, I talked about usefulness to content that appeals to the various groups, but it appears I have not fully broken down the data.

Maybe you need to consider how hard is it to obtain the base frame with non plat methods, or certain mechanics that while not hard to use, are annoying (like the sounds Octavia makes). Also, you fail to consider the release dates of the frames. Newer frame = played less automatically, especially when band aid augments just appeared recently (like accumulating Whipclaw for Khora).

Old Frame + It Works will definitely be top stats simply because people are used to them and they WORK. Rhino always worked, so did Loki, for the content they were good at, so of course the stats reflect that. Volt is useful for too much of the game (if you use him just to press 4, you are not using Volt properly, since he is used for almost any mission that doesn't need Stealth for a variety of roles, including Eidolon), so of course he will be there.

Saryn, Mesa, Equinox (who have been in the game for ages) are basically the old girls on the block for DPS, so of course they will be up there, even though Khora can trump them in damage output up to Sortie Level. Simply because people have not moved on to the new toys/are not willing to move to the new toys. Also, consider how hard Khora is to get compared to say, Saryn Prime or Mesa for the "vets". Why use a new thing when the old tool still works, right?

But you will be the one complaining of power creep if the new nuker frames made Saryn and Mesa obsolete the moment he/she came out and was available for grinding, just to make people not use Saryn/Mesa and grind for the new shiny. Then you will complain that your Saryn cannot make it and "nerf the power creep". DE just can't win here, can they?

It also seems that other popular frames, like Nekros Prime, Nova Prime, Limbo Prime, Ivara, Inaros were all conveniently ignored because they were "a bit less" than top 6 and because they do nothing to suit the argument. Six has always been an odd number to pick. It is apparent the cherry picking from the dataset is quite strong, plus the lack of corrections for release date and familiarity.

1 hour ago, BlackFox66 said:

The only thing i think we have that poor balance is because the game is in beta and i hope it will be fixed and nothing bad happends if those 1 button smashers will quit the game i think it will be better for community imo

Warframe is not truly in Beta, only so in name. This is essentially a lie perpetuated by the Devs so they are free to mess with your account and mine in any way they like, or push all sorts of broken, experimental content that uses us a free bug testers.

If you really believe that Warframe is still in Beta outside of technicality and the Dev's words, I would find it hard to take you seriously.

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I play mostly Khora, Nova and Saryn at the moment, so I think I can contribute something to this topic. I've been playing Saryn since her release, been through her multiple builds and generally haven't found a frame I liked more than Saryn since getting Khora. I also generally like playing frames like Nyx, Banshee, Ember, Oberon and Zephyr. Lots of variety in my opinion. 

Sometimes you just need a frame that is super good at killing. Saryn shines in quite a few places, with one of those being one of the 'Endgame' options that DE has put out. These are (Elite) Sanctuary Onslaught, Exterminates and Defences. Out of the three, only two of those really matter for Saryn to do actually anything: Those being Elite Sanctuary Onslaught and Sortie Defences where sometimes you just want to get through waves super fast. 

Now, I actually play Khora through pretty much every content Saryn is good in, except for Sortie Defence. Like @Datam4ss, I can also outkill and outdamage Saryns on ESO to a point where I just actually play solo ESO. Less Host Migration issues and all that. However, when I'm in a team ESO, it's because I'm lazy and sometimes just want a Saryn so I don't have to keep my attention focused all the time.

The other problem is ESO itself: There's no real reward for going past zone 8, Efficiency and AABC Rotation scaling make it not worth doing. You want to nerf Saryn and Equinox? Fine, but these two issues certainly need fixing before that can really be a thing.

It is good that not every frame is a pure DPS monster, but the is that Damage is king and has to be king because of what the game is: A Horde Shooter. 

I'm not suggesting to nerf Saryn. I'm not even suggesting that every frame needs to be buffed to Saryns level. Some frames definitely need the buffs to help out with their problems and perhaps put them on par with Saryn (Ember, looking at you. 😞  ) But someone has to be good at some stuff and Saryn is just very good at ESO. She's also good at Sortie Defence where, again, killing mass groups of enemies quickly is important. Earlier in the week I remember doing the stage 3 Defence (Elemental Enhancement iirc, though might have been Eximus Stronghold) sortie in the Void as Saryn. It still took us a good while to get through it due to how insane the enemies started getting. It was still far quicker to bring Saryn to that and you would want to nerf this? 

The only time Saryn is a problem ever is in Defence/Excavation Fissures where sometimes people don't realize you need to slow the killing down/not put in fuel cells instantly and the enemies are dying quicker than they can become corrupted. That's not a Saryn problem though, that's user problem and means we need to buff reactant on those two mission types.

tl;dr: The Mechanics of the game as well as the game itself needs characters like Saryn, Equinox and Mesa. This is why I like Khora by the way: She has insane damage as well as very good CC in her hit. If we nerf Saryn, Equinox and Mesa, then we have to also nerf a character like Khora to which the community is still split in half if she's actually good or not. (Which she is, despite what some people might think.)

Edited by KaijuKraid
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11 minutes ago, KaijuKraid said:

If we nerf Saryn, Equinox and Mesa, then we have to also nerf a character like Khora to which the community is still split in half if she's actually good or not. (Which she is, despite what some people might think.)

Again, this only proves frame usage is not just affected by how good the frame ACTUALLY is, but how people PERCEIVE the frame.

Or else Gara, Khora and Octavia would all be top picks.

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14 minutes ago, Datam4ss said:

You do not need a Saryn or Equinox in Spy or Capture

here you go again :DD
 

 

14 minutes ago, Datam4ss said:

t is not even proving that you are wrong that is necessary here. It is simply proving that your proposed changes will not be welcome by a significant proportion of people. Which means it is not a legitimate suggestion, because it does not benefit the majority, only the vocal minority you represent. I mean, I am not the only Naysayer on this thread. It's pretty obvious.

why youre so sure my opinion is less popular the yours? if as u say there is 2-3 threads like this creating every day? i think you proved that youre wrong
The other your arguments is  just complexing the specific situations, and im tired to tell one thing 1000 times in a row
Im tired to speak with you, i got your point and i dont want to prove you somthing because you complicate some points to prove somthing, but i do not see anything substantial in it


 
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12 minutes ago, BlackFox66 said:

why youre so sure my opinion is less popular the yours? if as u say there is 2-3 threads like this creating every day? i think you proved that youre wrong

In every thread there are people who say no to Saryn nerfs, and these people are not me. They came up every day when Saryn got reworked, the frequency has steadily dropped as people accept Saryn for what she is. There is no evidence to suggest your opinion or mine is more popular, let alone even relevant to most players.

The forums are a tiny subsection of the player population. For the entire game to change because of a couple of guys yakking at each other is a fruitless endeavor.

Of course, the occasional pot stirrer like you comes along, and I just happened to see this thread. I don't see anything wrong for defending Saryn's gameplay. If your opinion was so correct, why are there people like me saying "no" that are not me?

12 minutes ago, BlackFox66 said:

The other your arguments is  just complexing the specific situations, and im tired to tell one thing 1000 times in a row
Im tired to speak with you, i got your point put i dont want to prove you somthing because you complicate some points to prove somthing, but i do not see anything substantial in it

No, you just cannot accept an opinion that isn't yours and you are oversimplifying the actually complex situation with no substantiation using facts to make your arguments seem more legitimate than they actually are despite their shallow nature and lack of actual backing evidence. You are the one trying to prove something here. I am only trying to disprove your point. I don't have anything to prove, just something to disprove.

Of course, given your vehement disagreement with me on how the game is meant to be, you will not see any value in my argument as it doesn't support your narrative, because I equally see that little value in your argument and view it as flawed.

With this much being said, yes, I will apologize for talking off topic regarding the nature of the problem, only for this particular reply. All my previous replies, no apologies given as none of them are required.

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10 minutes ago, Datam4ss said:

I don't see anything wrong for defending Saryn's gameplay. If your opinion was so correct, why are there people like me saying "no" that are not me?

Really dont know why someone is defending this gameplay

 

10 minutes ago, Datam4ss said:

No, you just cannot accept an opinion that isn't yours and you are oversimplifying the situation with no substantiation using facts to make your arguments seem more legitimate than they actually are despite their shallow nature and lack of actual backing evidence. You are the one trying to prove something here. I am only trying to disprove your point. I don't have anything to prove, just something to disprove.

Of course, given your vehement disagreement with me on how the game is meant to be, you will not see any value in my argument as it doesn't support your narrative, because I equally see that little value in your argument and view it as flawed.

No, you just read what you want to read or you dont understand my point, thats it. As i said im tired to tell you 1 thing 1000 times thats why im done speaking with you.
I mean i already tell you my point, and most of your arguments are not significant and missing a lot of things what was already told.

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Just now, (PS4)BenHeisennberg said:

OP, I suggest you do the following:

1:  open the options menu.

2:  select the world icon.

3:  set it to solo mode.

There, you can enjoy soloing as Excalibur with a Braton so you have no pesky teammates who like to kill things.

🙂

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Cc is dead until enemy scaling gets fixed. I'm ok with nuke frames cause if I didn't. I would be a hypocrite cause hildryn, mesa, and hell sometimes mag are my go to frames for room cleaning.  

Edited by moostar95
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On 2019-04-12 at 6:35 PM, BlackFox66 said:

Is there any chance to get all aoe abilities fixed? its so boring gameplay to press 4 for win, like what the point of other dmg frames? if there is a saryn, equinox, banshee, octavia, etc. Like those aoe frames are killing 80% of all frames, because there is no point to play garuda, mirage, mesa, excalibur. i know that those frames are good and people are playing them, but the fact u can just pick saryn and press 4 and deal 2 times more damage then other frame using different abilities, guns and actually playing the game is ridiculous. just hope that balance will appear someday...

by the void its too early for these shenanigans

it is also too early for me to have read the 5 pages of shenanigans

So nerf AOE and nuke Aight sounds good on paper make people interact more

Have you counted up all the costs of doing this actions what are the severity of the nerfs? will you do a trade off of buffing X nerfing Y? do you have suggestions on nerfs or just want the old blanket nerf everything? can you keep your bias out of the process so you can nerf fairly and not over do it because you dislike a frame? also why do you want to nerf non damage AOE?

yes i know you said all damage AOE no you still havent changed it in the title so im going off the AOE IS RUINING THE GAME!!!!!11!!! as all till ya correct it

also dismissing arguments is fun and creative way to have a argument with people it doesn't at all make you look [narrow minded] to suit this one frame does all idea you seem to have 

but i digress you want nerfs suggest them dont just sit on your hands and say sayrn this sayrn i want nerfs that make a suggestion on what you would nerf and why 

  • chroma
  • equinox 
  • mesa
  • excalibur
  • sayrn
  • revenant
  • rhino
  • valkyr
  • banshee
  • ash
  • atlas
  • baruuk
  • hyldrin 
  • frost 
  • gara
  • garuda
  • harrow
  • hydroid
  • inaros
  • ivara
  • khora
  • limbo
  • loki
  • mag
  • mirage
  • nekros
  • nezha 
  • nidus
  • nova
  • nyx
  • oberon
  • ocatvia 
  • titania
  • trinity
  • vauban
  • volt 
  • wukong
  • zephyr

Wait this is the entire warframe roster hmm its almost like all the warframe have some method of one button interactions AOE damage or press X to win to some degree

well get nerfing i guess since its clearly ruining the game and needs to be fixed watch where you step some of those are a doozy of a land mine for the community 

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