Melee 3.0 expectations

[HatedByLifeItself]

Hi,

i want to know what are your expectations regarding the upcoming melee 3.0 update. For me i would highly suggest reworking how IPS (impact, puncture, slash ) works, a lot of weapons are not viable because all that matters in the current meta is Slash, a high slash weapon is always good, a high impact weapon is always bad, and a high puncture weapon is 50/50 . 

Example : Gram prime / War : i like how the war looks and looking at how hard it is to obtain i expected a high damage weapon, then i saw it was impact oriented, and at that moment if you are familiar with modding you know nothing can save the weapon (Except -impact). 

For me the fact that a high slash weapon with decent status is always viable doesn't bother me that much, but impact and puncture are basically just there to do nothing, no one needs them. 

Slash procs : bypass armor which makes it very useful against the toughest enemies in warframe : grineer. Keep in mind that infested would melt down with slash procs too, and so do Corpus because it bypasses their shields and they have low HP. 

Impact procs : knockback, it messes up a lot of combos, does not help whatsoever because with the recet update when you hit an enemy they will be staggered anyway, so impact damage is useless and needs a rework imo. Hell even an impact primary/secondary is bad because it messes up your aim by knocking back the enemy.

Puncture procs: never really cared about it, but the proc itself does not stack compared to slash, on a single enemy you can have multiple slash procs (more damage = enemy dies faster) but with puncture you proc it once, it will reduce the enemy's damage output by 30% over 6s, and every proc after that will only refresh the duration. Why bother with making enemies do less damage if you can kill them faster ? I don't know.

To wrap it up i think slash damage is nice by itself, and i am not saying we should nerf it, all i want is to see the impact/puncture procs completely changed so a high impact/puncture melee will actually be useful when it comes to damage output, as we know the best defense is offense right ? 

[HatedByLifeItself]

à l’instant, (XB1)Cubic Clem a dit :

Dozens of new stances.. nothing more I expect.

Damn, that would be sad...

Edit: up until now, only thing they did is the quick change from melee to fire mode and oriented slams, i don't think it takes that much time to do those changes, and they calling it melee 2.999999999 , i am kind of afraid about them not changing ips.

Edited April 13, 2019 by HatedByLifeItself

[Firetempest]

2 minutes ago, HatedByLifeItself said:

i am kind of afraid about them not changing ips.

They likely won't as that's not melee specific, thats the whole damage system involved.

[HatedByLifeItself]

il y a 3 minutes, Firetempest a dit :

They likely won't as that's not melee specific, thats the whole damage system involved.

Then why not change the whole system ? i would like to use weapons other than slash ones or pure elemental (no ips) and i think that from a developer pov DE should consider giving each physical damage type its own advantage ... i know it probably will never happen in the near future though, i am just hoping.

[Loza03]

1 minute ago, HatedByLifeItself said:

Then why not change the whole system ? i would like to use weapons other than slash ones or pure elemental (no ips) and i think that from a developer pov DE should consider giving each physical damage type its own advantage ... i know it probably will never happen in the near future though, i am just hoping.

They are, actually.

Damage 3.0 is projected to have a trial run in Railjack.

 

As for my expectations, smoother, more fluid combos that stick less. I doubt full-torso animations will go away entirely - particularly for heavier weapons like greatswords - but as a whole I'm expecting more weapons to enable free movement. I'm also expecting air combat - although what form that will take I don't know. 

[HatedByLifeItself]

il y a 1 minute, Loza03 a dit :

They are, actually.

Damage 3.0 is projected to have a trial run in Railjack.

 

As for my expectations, smoother, more fluid combos that stick less. I doubt full-torso animations will go away entirely - particularly for heavier weapons like greatswords - but as a whole I'm expecting more weapons to enable free movement. I'm also expecting air combat - although what form that will take I don't know. 

Oh so damage 3.0 is coming, looking forward to it 🙂 . For the combos i would just like the complete removal of pause combos , specially because on every good melee (except redeemer prime ) you go full crit with a lot of attack speed, (gram prime, galatine prime, etc..) and Berserker makes it really hard to pause at the good time, but i love those cool looking pause combos specially for Tempo Royale, and generally speaking pause combos are just hard to do  and not that rewarding, also i would expect a little text next to each combo that shows what are the pros for doing the combos because it is never explained in the stance ( Like : last melee hit will cause slash satus (something like that)) 

[Showerwalker]

Just hope they redo most of the animations and finish the control redesign (think they featured it back last year on devstream) apparently will be more intuitive with weapons sharing some similar sets of attacks, such as block attack would always be a gap-closer, but they just recently made block auto, so really not sure of the state of that as of now. Personally, really wish for unsheathing attacks of all melees to be a parry/deflect, just so I can say goodbye to adaptation and Chroma when it comes to boss fights, and maybe add a little more depth to bossfights. As with all previous reworks, they might also tweak some weapon stats to bring everything on par with the current meta, but as mentioned above, stats change might come at the very end of m3.0 since they'll be experimenting damage3.0 with railjack.

 

EDIT: here's the post that inspired the 'rage mode' they're implementing (and instant switching), probably inspired some other stuff too, might give you an idea of what they're taking into consideration, but as you know, everything is subject to change, not sure if it helps.

Edited April 14, 2019 by Showerwalker

[SneakyErvin]

I hope they fix all the problems that the first iteration brought.

Some frames, like Valkyr, are currently broken if played with their exalted. Now you cannot build around it, because now you can no longer "block glide" with Hysteria active. As soon as you start to glide you now use your range weapon to "aim glide" instead, opening Valkyr up to several vulnerabilities. So in order to play her around Hysteria you now need to mod her for health and armor like a non-hysteria Valk. This pretty much makes hysteria a pointless ability. So back to speed freak tempo royale eternal warcry build.

[stormy505]

I'd argue that the reason slash is mandatory is just because of how stupid armor scailing gets. imo make us care about building to beat shields/pure HP.

[HatedByLifeItself]

il y a 11 minutes, SneakyErvin a dit :

like Valkyr

I tried valkyr in Simulacrum and a lot of times i died duing my Hysteria specially after aim glide - shooting weapon ? which should not happen, this is a bug though nothing to do with melee 3.0 . 

 

il y a 6 minutes, stormy505 a dit :

'd argue that the reason slash is mandatory is just because of how stupid armor scailing gets. imo make us care about building to beat shields/pure HP.

Yeah that is part of the problem too, anything that does not have armor is weak. But maybe if you make slash useless against them then other physical types will be useful ? I don't know tbh all i know is that other than slash,everything sucks (IPS wise)

[SneakyErvin]

1 minute ago, HatedByLifeItself said:

I tried valkyr in Simulacrum and a lot of times i died duing my Hysteria specially after aim glide - shooting weapon ? which should not happen, this is a bug though nothing to do with melee 3.0 . 

Even if they fix that bug she will still be utter crap with our current melee setup. Aim Glide is a total death trap because it removes her invulnerability. Making the whole build a massive risk because you shouldnt slot for survival on a Hysteria build, you should build around maintaining Hysteria instead. And now if you wanna survive with a Hysteria build you need either steel fiber+vitality or Quick Thinking just to survive simple aim gliding going from point  A to B.

[HatedByLifeItself]

il y a 1 minute, SneakyErvin a dit :

Even if they fix that bug she will still be utter crap with our current melee setup. Aim Glide is a total death trap because it removes her invulnerability. Making the whole build a massive risk because you shouldnt slot for survival on a Hysteria build, you should build around maintaining Hysteria instead. And now if you wanna survive with a Hysteria build you need either steel fiber+vitality or Quick Thinking just to survive simple aim gliding going from point  A to B.

As i said, you should be invulnerable while aim gliding, that is the easy fix and i don't see any problem with that.

[SneakyErvin]

1 minute ago, HatedByLifeItself said:

As i said, you should be invulnerable while aim gliding, that is the easy fix and i don't see any problem with that.

They need to bring back the old block in that case. Otherwise Valkyr would be invulnerable 24/7 even when shooting. I dont think they can program the current RMB interaction to recognize Valkyr's gliding to be different from any other frame since the glide simply equips your ranged weapon, which is the cause of the invulnerability removal.

Hopefully block will make a return along with more quickbutton options for swapping between weapons on the fly. No idea why they are hellbent on having it on LMB and RMB. Either or would be enough aswell as a third option we can bind where we like.

LMB to fire your gun and swap to it.

RMB to aim or block but without current auto switch. If melee is equipped you block (and possibly channel), if range is equipped you aim.

Extra weapon swap button option in the keybind menu to be unsed incase people want to still use the LMB for melee option.

[Gio21]

Haven't thought before this for melee 3 just hype.

But since u ask I would like to see more info for our combos that just a screenshot with the keys,

Streamlining stances and making combos more rewarding but not breaking the stream of the fight,

 

Cuz all I've been doing now is mash eeeeeee with sometimes a right mouse click but except the changed animation I don't see why I should bother using that(right mouse combos)

 

Edit: Must a combo timer please please!!!

Edited April 13, 2019 by Gio21
Combo timer