Let me give you money, DE.

[debonairdead]

All I want, DE, is to give you money.

I still enjoy Warframe, don't get me wrong. I love Warframe. I've loved it since it was darkSector, honestly.

But I enjoyed Warframe more when it was rat mazes and mass murder. I don't enjoy running around large open spaces, I don't enjoy farming for six-hundred of a resource that drops in fives and I don't enjoy standing gates stopping me from doing a zoomy through said unenjoyable content.

Just let me give you money in exchange for goods and services. Like, say, the archgun deployer. Can't you just MR lock it and charge me an inflated price in plat so I can do the things I enjoy doing and not the things you think I should enjoy?

[peterc3]

2 hours ago, debonairdead said:

Can't you just MR lock it and charge me an inflated price in plat so I can do the things I enjoy doing and not the things you think I should enjoy?

Do you actually like the game? Not just whatever you have focused on, but the entire thing?

[debonairdead]

18 minutes ago, peterc3 said:

Do you actually like the game? Not just whatever you have focused on, but the entire thing?

 

 

I love everything but the open world stuff because I don't like open world stuff.
Locking goodies behind open world stuff makes me sad, because I don't like to play open world stuff.
I don't find open world stuff fun, it doesn't satisfy me to do open world stuff in any game.

I'll do it if I absolutely have to, but I would honestly rather not.

[peterc3]

26 minutes ago, debonairdead said:

I love everything but the open world stuff because I don't like open world stuff.
Locking goodies behind open world stuff makes me sad, because I don't like to play open world stuff.
I don't find open world stuff fun, it doesn't satisfy me to do open world stuff in any game.

I'll do it if I absolutely have to, but I would honestly rather not.

The open world stuff is still part of the game. It is still Warframe. By all accounts, that is where a lot of the future gameplay will move towards. If that is the case, you are essentially asking to pay DE to not play anything beyond the moment before PoE launched.

I can imagine an answer, and it isn't one you'd be happy with. Look at the game on the whole and ask yourself if you want to keep playing. Everything, not just whatever you have zeroed in on as the one thing you like to do. If you don't want to engage with a fair bit of the current game and even more of what's to come... do you think DE would want to cater to you?

[debonairdead]

 

One, thank you for being a voice of reason. I was getting kinda toxic-y at my keyboard and stopping and reading has helped me chill out. I'm too passionate at times.

Two, now that I can finally think properly?
I don't really hate the open world stuff.
I think it's kinda boring to have to go back and forth all the time, but it's not awful.
It's short-lived traversal and, y'know, it's fine.

I just really fricking hate fishing and mining, man. If I wanna put Eidolons in the dirt I need to fish and mine to make Amps. And that's so boring! I like Warframe because I can shoot a thousand guys in three minutes and not touch the floor once! I don't wanna heck around with standing still and pointing at the dirt! And, like, if I wanna put Mech-Spiders into the chop shop, I gotta do the standing grind. Which I'm fine with! But if I wanna buy bonds, cuz I know they're needed to progress your standing rank, I gotta get more rocks and... Metal fish?

If there's something I'm missing? A way to farm resources that isn't fishing and mining, please do enlighten me because I need to see the light. I want to engage, man. I want to do the stuff they've put in the open world. It depresses me that I can't put a dent in the Eidolons, or that I'm like... Rank 2 w/ the Fortuna crew. But I can't stand bloody fishing and mining!!

[Xzorn]

I think DE got spooked by the recent stigma around procedurally generated content due to other games misusing it.

Randomly created tilesets, enemies and encounters are still kismet for Warframe. I don't think they have a choice honestly. This is just a phase to try something else. sport some graphics, try other ideas and wow new players upon entrance to the game but it cannot be sustained.

Path of Exile's Lead Designer Chris Wilson recently gave a presentation at GDC about similar subjects and the two games have a shared past. Even started about the same time. The time investment just doesn't match up with the content production or the re-usability of that content. Path of Exile tends to create layers of content into the base concept where as Warframe makes tangent projects that often lead to dead-ends.

Warframe of recent has been attempting to layer dungeon type content (PoE / Fortuna) with Seasonal (Nightwave) which is genius in concept but for the Raid type content at least there's no difficulty and no path to climb. Typically a dungeon is made very hard at first so that only a select group of players can complete it while others bang their heads against the wall trying to get through. Over time the difficulty is decrease letting more in until a new dungeon comes. This doesn't work for Warframe because they let everyone in from the start and there's no stepping stones to walk as they're completely independent of each other and to some degree the rest of the game.

Of course this is all from a game play perspective and not business. If you look at certain charts DE seems to be doing everything right.

[Sotomedicen]

Thank you for the color pack. I had to google your user because I was really surprise. I wish all the best and thank you again! 

[(PSN)chubbslawson]

23 hours ago, debonairdead said:

 

One, thank you for being a voice of reason. I was getting kinda toxic-y at my keyboard and stopping and reading has helped me chill out. I'm too passionate at times.

Two, now that I can finally think properly?
I don't really hate the open world stuff.
I think it's kinda boring to have to go back and forth all the time, but it's not awful.
It's short-lived traversal and, y'know, it's fine.

I just really fricking hate fishing and mining, man. If I wanna put Eidolons in the dirt I need to fish and mine to make Amps. And that's so boring! I like Warframe because I can shoot a thousand guys in three minutes and not touch the floor once! I don't wanna heck around with standing still and pointing at the dirt! And, like, if I wanna put Mech-Spiders into the chop shop, I gotta do the standing grind. Which I'm fine with! But if I wanna buy bonds, cuz I know they're needed to progress your standing rank, I gotta get more rocks and... Metal fish?

If there's something I'm missing? A way to farm resources that isn't fishing and mining, please do enlighten me because I need to see the light. I want to engage, man. I want to do the stuff they've put in the open world. It depresses me that I can't put a dent in the Eidolons, or that I'm like... Rank 2 w/ the Fortuna crew. But I can't stand bloody fishing and mining!!

I don’t like the fishing and mining and hunting the stupid animals either, you are not alone 

[Xaxma]

On 2019-04-13 at 7:12 PM, debonairdead said:

 

 

I love everything but the open world stuff because I don't like open world stuff.
Locking goodies behind open world stuff makes me sad, because I don't like to play open world stuff.
I don't find open world stuff fun, it doesn't satisfy me to do open world stuff in any game.

I'll do it if I absolutely have to, but I would honestly rather not.

I love football but running because I don't like to run for a goal.
Locking me out of playing the sport makes me sad, because I don't like to run. Why can't I just throw or kick the ball?
I don't find running fun, it doesn't satisfy me to play defense or gain some yards in any game.

I'll do it if I absolutely have to, but I would honestly rather not.

Do you realize how silly you are? You might have found the wrong game.

Edited April 15, 2019 by Xaxma

[debonairdead]

19 hours ago, Xaxma said:

Do you realize how silly you are?

I did, actually, after someone who had something constructive to offer had done so.

But I'm going to assume you didn't see that. No doubt too busy cackling maniacally over your sick burn, dude.

Consider me totally roasted, bro.

19 hours ago, (PS4)chubbslawson said:

I don’t like the fishing and mining and hunting the stupid animals either, you are not alone

I'm not sold on mining or fishing, but the conservation stuff isn't too bad?

And apparently it's a great way to earn Standing, which is something I need to catch up on.

I'm coming to terms w/ the fact that sometimes you just gotta suck it up.

[Steel_Rook]

19 hours ago, Xaxma said:

Do you realize how silly you are? You might have found the wrong game.

Warframe is not football, nor is it a sport. Open-world maps, specifically MMO-classic activities like mining and fishing, are far from an integral part of the game's core experience. If anything, both systems are about as isolated and underdeveloped as Archwings, but you'll hardly see a lot of people being told to play another game because they don't like Archwing content. There's no need for false equivalence.

[Xaxma]

1 hour ago, Steel_Rook said:

Warframe is not football, nor is it a sport. Open-world maps, specifically MMO-classic activities like mining and fishing, are far from an integral part of the game's core experience. If anything, both systems are about as isolated and underdeveloped as Archwings, but you'll hardly see a lot of people being told to play another game because they don't like Archwing content. There's no need for false equivalence.

They're not really isolated and underdeveloped since they're in two open worlds; clearly, the devs value these activities enough and thought them integral enough to include it again after PoE. OP wants atmospheric gun and AW gun but without playing the game. What do you get from doing AW that carries over into the land-based parts?

[(XBOX)XGN DrFeelGood]

On 2019-04-13 at 4:12 PM, debonairdead said:

 

 

I love everything but the open world stuff because I don't like open world stuff.
Locking goodies behind open world stuff makes me sad, because I don't like to play open world stuff.
I don't find open world stuff fun, it doesn't satisfy me to do open world stuff in any game.

I'll do it if I absolutely have to, but I would honestly rather not.

The open world could have leaned more towards the way other games have and kind of is going towards. Having side quests and primary quests taken place in the open world areas is still a possibility, even though we have events take place.

[debonairdead]

31 minutes ago, Xaxma said:

OP wants atmospheric gun and AW gun but without playing the game.

In my defence, not that there's much of one for the toxic man child I was acting like, I was incredibly frustrated with the leviathan-esque Fortuna standing grind that is gated by the standing cap and wanted to pay to obtain the item in question to avoid having to deal with it.

It baffles me that we still have so much getting in the way of player progression. I think the freedom to choose whether or not we want to no-life our standing grind should be given to us. Because I don't know about you, but playing for an hour and then stopping bc your standing cap has been reached isn't my idea of fun. Being told I'm not allowed to continue progressing towards my current goal "just because" ( as far as i can tell ) isn't fun. At all. It makes me want to not play more Warframe, because my reaching the goal and having fun is now not possible. And personally, it makes me feel like my reaching my goal and having fun is less important to DE than it is to me.

Which should be the opposite of what DE wants, surely? Because I do want to experience the new content. But there's so much getting in the way of me reaching that content. I don't think it's unfair to get frustrated about that, nor to want to pay money into the system to negate the mandatory waiting period you can't do anything about.

But, that's just me.

[Steel_Rook]

15 hours ago, Xaxma said:

They're not really isolated and underdeveloped since they're in two open worlds; clearly, the devs value these activities enough and thought them integral enough to include it again after PoE. OP wants atmospheric gun and AW gun but without playing the game. What do you get from doing AW that carries over into the land-based parts?

The open worlds themselves are isolated and underdeveloped. Aside from featuring large maps, neither the Plains of Eidolon nor Orb Vallis constitute a major portion of the core gameplay experience. They're just the newest bit of content, but they're also largely bolted on the side of a fairly different game. If DE considered Mining and Fishing so essential to the core gameplay loop, they'd have stuck them in older tilesets, which they didn't.

Moreover, gating the Archgun Launcher behind Profit-Taker bounties is not good design. It's very heavy-handed content gating and another example of DE's blinders for their own game. Every new item which gets added is gated behind whatever the latest new piece of content is, regardless of whether it's a good thematic fit or whether it makes for a good progression system. The only reason Atmospheric Archguns are gated behind Profit-Taker bounties is the two items came out at the same time time. The majority of the use I've had of my own Atmospheric Archguns, however, has been in legacy content - outside of Orb Heists, outside of Fortuna. Hell, my Atmospheric Imperator Vandal is what I use to fight the Wolf of Saturn Six because the rest of my weapons are usually low-level MR fodder these days.

The OP has every right to complain about the Archgun Launcher being gated behind Orb Heists and max status with Solaris United. That's just a grind for the sake of having a grind.

[Xaxma]

2 minutes ago, Steel_Rook said:

The open worlds themselves are isolated and underdeveloped. Aside from featuring large maps, neither the Plains of Eidolon nor Orb Vallis constitute a major portion of the core gameplay experience. They're just the newest bit of content, but they're also largely bolted on the side of a fairly different game. If DE considered Mining and Fishing so essential to the core gameplay loop, they'd have stuck them in older tilesets, which they didn't.

Moreover, gating the Archgun Launcher behind Profit-Taker bounties is not good design. It's very heavy-handed content gating and another example of DE's blinders for their own game. Every new item which gets added is gated behind whatever the latest new piece of content is, regardless of whether it's a good thematic fit or whether it makes for a good progression system. The only reason Atmospheric Archguns are gated behind Profit-Taker bounties is the two items came out at the same time time. The majority of the use I've had of my own Atmospheric Archguns, however, has been in legacy content - outside of Orb Heists, outside of Fortuna. Hell, my Atmospheric Imperator Vandal is what I use to fight the Wolf of Saturn Six because the rest of my weapons are usually low-level MR fodder these days.

The OP has every right to complain about the Archgun Launcher being gated behind Orb Heists and max status with Solaris United. That's just a grind for the sake of having a grind.

Your complaint is going to go over as well as when people whined about the necessity of operator combat for the Teralyst fight. You're also gated behind killing sentients with puny laser until you can scramble enough standing to make a better one and actually hurt it. 

You can complain all you like but it's a fraction of a percent speaking on behalf of us. Nothing is going to change. 

[Steel_Rook]

10 minutes ago, Xaxma said:

Your complaint is going to go over as well as when people whined about the necessity of operator combat for the Teralyst fight. You're also gated behind killing sentients with puny laser until you can scramble enough standing to make a better one and actually hurt it. 

That's because Operator Amp progression being gated behind the one event contrived to absolutely require it is equally bad design and worthy of just as much criticism. The only saving grace is that Operator Amps suck ass regardless of level of upgrade and Operators themselves have very little actual use outside of Eidolon hunts. The same is not true for Archguns, plus it's a newer problem that you're going to see people complain about as they run across it.

 

12 minutes ago, Xaxma said:

You can complain all you like but it's a fraction of a percent speaking on behalf of us^{[citation needed]}. Nothing is going to change. 

Yeah, I don't buy that claim for a second. Not only is this a clear appeal to the majority fallacy, it's a straight-up falsehood because you are not, in fact, in the majority. What this claim does make clear, however, is that you're prioritising a tribalist and frankly dishonest line of argument. That sort of conversation is not worth engaging in.

[Xaxma]

1 hour ago, Steel_Rook said:

That's because Operator Amp progression being gated behind the one event contrived to absolutely require it is equally bad design and worthy of just as much criticism. The only saving grace is that Operator Amps suck ass regardless of level of upgrade and Operators themselves have very little actual use outside of Eidolon hunts. The same is not true for Archguns, plus it's a newer problem that you're going to see people complain about as they run across it.

 

Yeah, I don't buy that claim for a second. Not only is this a clear appeal to the majority fallacy, it's a straight-up falsehood because you are not, in fact, in the majority. What this claim does make clear, however, is that you're prioritising a tribalist and frankly dishonest line of argument. That sort of conversation is not worth engaging in.

You're in denial. I'm not stating what I'm stating out of dismissive tribalism but over common sense and the prolonged exposure to this community and its trends. People will complain about anything not because there's anything worth complaining about but purely for the sake of complaining; people simply don't like change. Where do you see people continuing the discussion about trying to do away with operator content? Exactly. I don't see any of it anymore. People are actually now trying to finagle with the circumstance and justify using it with operator buff requests instead. 

On top of that, you're sorely mistaken if you believe effort-driven content gated behind player experience is "bad design"; who made you the authority? In fact, most of the game can already be bypassed with currency. Forma. Weapons. Frames. Potatoes. Open World resources. Zaws. Kitguns. Boosters. But the moment something comes along that defies this principle and actually requires some time investment, everyone loses their damn mind. Do you remember how comedic the forum was when people were complaining about not being able to buy amps with plat?

You're just angry because it's not something you can do away with a simple plat purchase. It's entitlement. The REAL saving grace here is that none of the two open worlds are requirements; they're mutually exclusive of another. You don't need to be interested in Cetus to play Fortuna and vice versa. They have their own tools with their own challenges with their own resources, so you are free to choose: Do you want the atmosphere gun first or the arcanes?

If they're both not worth the investment in the end and are locked into their gradient of uses, then why the dissent? Why have the argument at all to be able to bypass it? It certainly wouldn't be worth the plat if it wasn't. 

[debonairdead]

5 minutes ago, (XB1)Cubic Clem said:

Stop giving them money ffs.

No.

[(PSN)guzmantt1977]

On 2019-04-13 at 8:20 PM, debonairdead said:

 

One, thank you for being a voice of reason. I was getting kinda toxic-y at my keyboard and stopping and reading has helped me chill out. I'm too passionate at times.

Two, now that I can finally think properly?
I don't really hate the open world stuff.
I think it's kinda boring to have to go back and forth all the time, but it's not awful.
It's short-lived traversal and, y'know, it's fine.

I just really fricking hate fishing and mining, man. If I wanna put Eidolons in the dirt I need to fish and mine to make Amps. And that's so boring! I like Warframe because I can shoot a thousand guys in three minutes and not touch the floor once! I don't wanna heck around with standing still and pointing at the dirt! And, like, if I wanna put Mech-Spiders into the chop shop, I gotta do the standing grind. Which I'm fine with! But if I wanna buy bonds, cuz I know they're needed to progress your standing rank, I gotta get more rocks and... Metal fish?

If there's something I'm missing? A way to farm resources that isn't fishing and mining, please do enlighten me because I need to see the light. I want to engage, man. I want to do the stuff they've put in the open world. It depresses me that I can't put a dent in the Eidolons, or that I'm like... Rank 2 w/ the Fortuna crew. But I can't stand bloody fishing and mining!!

Well you can always buy the required bits and pieces from the vendors in the respective cities. Or trade for the fish as required if that's what you want to do. So.... 

[debonairdead]

1 minute ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

trade for the fish

You can trade fish?

[(PSN)guzmantt1977]

12 minutes ago, debonairdead said:

You can trade fish?

Yeah. 

I give stuff like augments to newbs all the time, and tell them just drop a single fish, or junk mod. 

[debonairdead]

1 minute ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

Yeah.

Well, that's the fishing issue more or less solved to my satisfaction.

[(PSN)guzmantt1977]

7 minutes ago, debonairdead said:

Well, that's the fishing issue more or less solved to my satisfaction.

Should also be able to trade the refined gems. Never tried that.