Nullifiers, Equinox, Mesa, Chroma; Riven mods; ...and new Primed mods.

[Femuru]

7 hours ago, Kuez said:

I agree... but - try saying that in a MOT endurance run. 

the fact that about every frame can go 3 hours and more when this game has off the wall scaling only show more on how much a cake walk the game actually is in. endurance runs is where u truly test the worth of yur stuff but the fact u have to spend that long just to find a challenge is ludicrous for some interesting gameplay rather than a cheese fest and that only show they need to make things even harder for ppl who are bored wit regular content but finding it even more boring when u gotta throw a chunk of yur day into a single game. 

[Guest]

Why no suggestion for Primed Energy Siphon...

[Kuez]

54 minutes ago, Datam4ss said:

Why no suggestion for Primed Energy Siphon...

Would - let's say - 2 energy per second make a difference when Zenurik can give you 5 energy per second?
When used by a whole squad, sure, but I feel like there would still be better options than that. And we're talking about Corpus and Infested missions - I'll leave using such an aura for Grineer missions without a comment.
Plus we haven't seen Primed Auras yet. I could use Primed Corrosive Projection, though. 
 

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Kuez said:

Would - let's say - 2 energy per second make a difference when Zenurik can give you 5 energy per second?
When used by a whole squad, sure, but I feel like there would still be better options than that. And we're talking about Corpus and Infested missions - I'll leave using such an aura for Grineer missions without a comment.
 

Eh, 2 energy/s is already good enough for me to quit Zenurik and use Unairu or Madurai.

Also, the 24 extra capacity for Umbral...

[Benour]

3 hours ago, SutomuDrgn said:

the fact that about every frame can go 3 hours and more when this game has off the wall scaling only show more on how much a cake walk the game actually is in. endurance runs is where u truly test the worth of yur stuff but the fact u have to spend that long just to find a challenge is ludicrous for some interesting gameplay rather than a cheese fest and that only show they need to make things even harder for ppl who are bored wit regular content but finding it even more boring when u gotta throw a chunk of yur day into a single game. 

Omg this 1000 times. Arbitration should be this "hardcore" mode but it isnt, its scaling is just bad (even slower than fissure mission, what a joke). And exactly as you wrote you have to be in that mission for like 2h to start feeling any challenge. Its supposted to be "ultimate tryhard 1 life hardcore challenge" but its simply to easy/scaling is to slow. 

Sorry for offtopic :P

[Test-995]

Obviously we need this, because powercreeping in on top of already broken tier powercreep is definitely fun.

Really, who cares? we are powercreeped to the point where balance doesn't matter.

[Aldain]

Increasing Critical damage/chance any further will just make the "endgame" players whine that nothing can survive their 300% crit chance 10x crit damage multiplier Rubico Prime.

Power creep is not a solution, players will be bored of their bigger numbers before to long and we'll be right back to the "THERE'S NO CONTENT" debates.

[ArachnidOverlord]

1 hour ago, Aldain said:

Increasing Critical damage/chance any further will just make the "endgame" players whine that nothing can survive their 300% crit chance 10x crit damage multiplier Rubico Prime.

Power creep is not a solution, players will be bored of their bigger numbers before to long and we'll be right back to the "THERE'S NO CONTENT" debates.

The best thing to do in my opinion is base everything off of a maximum level cap. For example, if you want there to be a challenge at level 150-200 persay then make that the maximum level and balance everything (frames & weapons) based on their performance against everything level 200.

Not to the point where it's easy to face these enemies but to the point where you can beat them but they also get a good chance to defeat you. 

Right now enemies scale up to 9999 and when enemies scale that high the only frames/weapons that can break these enemies and survive them that I can think of are pretty much down to a hand full. (Wukong, Nidus, Limbo, Covert Lethality etc)

If they do add a maximum level for everything to be balanced off of then they should also add a mode where it's all max level enemies that you face from start to finish.

Since the enemies can't scale any higher sure it may not get much more difficult mind the increasing amount of eximus and special units (nullifiers, noxs etc) but as you progress you're more likely to make a mistake. But I'm no game balance designer either so really it's down to trial and error whether or not something like this would work.

Edited April 14, 2019 by ArachnidOverlord

[Aldain]

Just now, ArachnidOverlord said:

For example, if you want there to be a challenge at level 150-200 persay then make that the maximum level and balance everything based on their performance against everything level 200.

That would just trivialize everything below level 150 and create problems in development like the Wolf who either goes down in seconds to people at that endgame level or takes forever for people at midgame or lower.

The only way this would work is to make three "buckets" or points of balance reference, one for low levels (1-30ish) one for average levels (50-80ish, maybe 100 max) and overkill levels (150-200). But this makes things difficult because in any progression based game the endgame will always be present at all other levels which can cause problems at content lower than the overkill bucket.

This balancing method might work in a traditional MMO where things are static but Warframe has so many variables that it is painfully hard to prevent powercreep from leaking into other content because of the need to prevent the ultra high end players from ripping content in half and then complaining that there isn't any content for them.

This is seen by the divide caused by the Wolf, who despite being an involuntary boss who invades players of all levels, is designed around the insane power creep that endgame players have to prevent them from instantly nuking him (and despite that they still do) which causes lower level players to spend 15-30 minutes fighting a bullet sponge that gives them nothing of value.

[Femuru]

1 hour ago, Aldain said:

That would just trivialize everything below level 150 and create problems in development like the Wolf who either goes down in seconds to people at that endgame level or takes forever for people at midgame or lower.

The only way this would work is to make three "buckets" or points of balance reference, one for low levels (1-30ish) one for average levels (50-80ish, maybe 100 max) and overkill levels (150-200). But this makes things difficult because in any progression based game the endgame will always be present at all other levels which can cause problems at content lower than the overkill bucket.

This balancing method might work in a traditional MMO where things are static but Warframe has so many variables that it is painfully hard to prevent powercreep from leaking into other content because of the need to prevent the ultra high end players from ripping content in half and then complaining that there isn't any content for them.

This is seen by the divide caused by the Wolf, who despite being an involuntary boss who invades players of all levels, is designed around the insane power creep that endgame players have to prevent them from instantly nuking him (and despite that they still do) which causes lower level players to spend 15-30 minutes fighting a bullet sponge that gives them nothing of value.

Tbh wolf in the first place shouldn't had been a boss that appear on complete random and gave him a actual boss stage. I'd say the way Warframe works now actually causes more problem for itself. Rn we have no end stage, end phase, or a endgame and it's all about that endless scaling endurance that pointlessly go several hours. Bcuz of this players will always be divided into figuring what is good or bad cuz everyone is at different lvl in disorganized fashion. DE will have a rougher time balancing/reworking anything cuz they don't know what they are doing it for. If we had a cap lvl then they can fully focus on how to make equipment good and maybe even focus on how to make enemies fun/hard to fight without worrying how they endlessly scale. Then hopefully they focus on a aspect instead of wasting several hours on bland content, they make it so the moment you jump in gives you what you are looking for. Grind is fine after all it is a grind game but for anyone that fully grinded something needs a place to use it that's atleast challenging or fun to test rather than use it to grind watever else or hold themselves prisoner in a mission a few hrs. I remember seeing a meme, a game that take 100 hrs to finally have fun Vs a game 20 min and having fun all the way through. By Max capping could be a double edge sword in 1 hand that endless scaling of everything 1 shotting needing perfect movement difficulty is gone for hardcore fans, but the other if followed up correctly content should be hard and fun at Max lvl cap to begin with at the very start.