Conclave changes

[Stygie]

After playing some conclave, I have gotten a few ideas to improve its playability in terms of a pvp mode in an OP god simulator.

Bring back the stamina bar

Now I know some of you vets are shaking at this thought, but I believe bring it back will do Conclave some good. Currently, Conclave is all about bullet jumping and rolling to avoid bullets, while also annoying the crap out of someone trying to aim at you,, while trying to shoot when you can. This isnnot healthy at all. It makes the game mode extremely hard to master and leaves alot up to rng. With a stamina bar, you can spow the pace down enough to make it more feasible to shoot other Tenno much like any other fps. 

The stamina bar will have a max of 100 and this pool of 100 regenerates at a base rate of 5 per second and can be affected by mods(I recommend that the mode down side for stamina regen rate should be health and sheild reduction). Stamina will affect rolling, bullet jumping, and double jumping. Stamina will not affect sprinting, wall running, aim glide, or wall latch.

Rolling will cost a 25 Stamina allowing 4 rolls at max stamina. To compensate, rolling will now have an innate 10% damage reduction, im not sure if the 50% works in conclave but if not add this.

Bullet jumping well cost a 33 Stamina allowing 3 bullet jumps at max stamina. To compensate, this will add 10% velocity to the bullet jump. 

Double jump will cost 20 stamina allowing up to 5 double jumps at max stamina. To compensate, double jumping now grants 25% evasion.

This will allow the speed of the game to slow a little while still maintaining the unique movement in warframe but allowing for feasible gun play.

 

Kills should restore health

This should be an innate feature as you are consuming the oro of another Tenno. I say let it be a base 50 health return on kills so you do not get instantly merc'ed in a free for all.

 

[(PSN)OriginalEquinox]

Tbh at this point it'll be better to replace warframes with operators because conclave weapons are so weirdly balanced compared to PvE, might even be fun who knows

[Tachmag]

You can already recover all your health on a kill with the use of certain mods.

[xMarvin732]

vor 8 Stunden schrieb Lucian_Adrion:

Now I know some of you vets are shaking at this thought, but I believe bring it back will do Conclave some good. Currently, Conclave is all about bullet jumping and rolling to avoid bullets, while also annoying the crap out of someone trying to aim at you,, while trying to shoot when you can. This isnnot healthy at all. It makes the game mode extremely hard to master and leaves alot up to rng. With a stamina bar, you can spow the pace down enough to make it more feasible to shoot other Tenno much like any other fps. 

 

Make it Conclave exclusive then. i dont need the Stamina Bar again just because of Conclave.

[Stormdragon]

8 hours ago, Lucian_Adrion said:

Bring back the stamina bar

Now I know some of you vets are shaking at this thought, but I believe bring it back will do Conclave some good.

Core mechanics should remain consistent between both, PvE and PvP, otherwise you're just adding a conclave exclusive resource to manage which would achieve nothing but to add to the pile of excuses used by players to not play it because it "makes PvP feel too different from PvE".

 

8 hours ago, Lucian_Adrion said:

Kills should restore health

This should be an innate feature as you are consuming the oro of another Tenno. I say let it be a base 50 health return on kills so you do not get instantly merc'ed in a free for all.

As Pointed by Tachmag, there are mods for it offered by Teshin, however these are rare mods (won't work in RC) which decrease health obtained from orbs but in exchange offer some healing over time that gets interrupted upon taking health damage.

7 hours ago, (PS4)OriginalEquinox said:

Tbh at this point it'll be better to replace warframes with operators because conclave weapons are so weirdly balanced compared to PvE, might even be fun who knows

If you check conclave stats or play with weapons you'll realize that these are balanced in a way that lets them keep their feel (fire rate, recoil, accuracy and reload remain the same as in PvE when unmodded), removing the randomness added by certain stats (crit/status chance), while also reducing the effectiveness of "spray&pray strats" by cutting the mag on auto weapons.

As you can see, weapons may feel weird because PvE is driven by powercreep while PvP requires actual balance to avoid falling in "grind to win" territory. 

[(PSN)OriginalEquinox]

8 hours ago, Stormdragon said:

If you check conclave stats or play with weapons you'll realize that these are balanced in a way that lets them keep their feel (fire rate, recoil, accuracy and reload remain the same as in PvE when unmodded), removing the randomness added by certain stats (crit/status chance), while also reducing the effectiveness of "spray&pray strats" by cutting the mag on auto weapons.

As you can see, weapons may feel weird because PvE is driven by powercreep while PvP requires actual balance to avoid falling in "grind to win" territory. 

Never saw it like that tbh, just that something like the Tiberon prime was trash compared to the regular Tetra and the Lex time is a instakill machine, that's why I said weird

[SevenLetterKWord]

On 2019-04-14 at 2:25 AM, Lucian_Adrion said:

Bring back the stamina bar
Currently, Conclave is all about bullet jumping and rolling to avoid bullets, while also annoying the crap out of someone trying to aim at you,, while trying to shoot when you can. mobility and aim. This isnnot healthy at all. It makes the game mode extremely hard to master and leaves alot up to rng.

"Not healthy"?

Why do you think a requirement for skillful mobility and aim makes Conclave "unhealthy"?
Mobility and aim are obviously important to Conclave. What kind of shooter doesn't emphasize those skills?
It's absurd to claim that the fundamental mechanics of the entire genre are unhealthy... especially when you don't even have any supporting reasoning.

Why do you think a high skill cap is unhealthy?
A high skill cap gives room for players to develop and keeps the game interesting.
Chess is a high skill cap game. Tic-tac-toe is a low skill cap game. When's the last time you saw anyone over the age of 10 enjoy a game of tic-tac-toe?

And how is any of this related to RNG?
High mobility in Conclave extends players' survivability, thus increasing overall TTK and decreasing the influence of randomness.
Where's RNG coming in? Do your bullet jumps go in a random direction? Does "W" move you backwards 50% of the time?

On 2019-04-14 at 2:25 AM, Lucian_Adrion said:

This will ... slow [the game] a little [thereby] allowing for feasible gun play.

What if gunplay is already feasible. 🤯

On 2019-04-14 at 2:25 AM, Lucian_Adrion said:

Kills should restore health
This should be an innate feature as you are consuming the oro of another Tenno. I say let it be a base 50 health return on kills so you do not get instantly merc'ed in a free for all.

This is a snowballing mechanic, meaning that it gives benefits to players who are already winning. You sure you want that?
Also, you aren't consuming Oro, you're annihilating it. The game modes are called Annihilation and Team Annihilation, not Consumption and Tuberculosis Party.

_______________________________________

On 2019-04-14 at 2:43 AM, (PS4)OriginalEquinox said:

Tbh at this point it'll be better to replace warframes with operators because conclave weapons are so weirdly balanced compared to PvE, might even be fun who knows

Non-sequitur and false premise.

22 hours ago, (PS4)OriginalEquinox said:

something like the Tiberon prime was trash compared to the regular Tetra and the Lex time is a instakill machine, that's why I said weird

The Tetra is a projectile weapon that requires leading shots to deal its full DPS, which is - to compensate - higher than the Tiberon Prime's. Which weapon is more effective will depend on who's firing them and who's getting shot at.

The Lex Prime requires 4 shots to kill a normal, unmodded Excalibur. That's gonna take a minimum of 1.44 seconds, assuming you're just standing still and eating bullets. Human reaction time is around 250ms, maybe 300 if you're a little tipsy. That's enough time to react to it, then react to your reaction to it, then react to your reaction to your reaction to it... a total of five reactions before the Lex Prime will kill you. Given that, is the Lex Prime really an "instakill machine"?

[(PSN)OriginalEquinox]

4 hours ago, SevenLetterKWord said:

The Lex Prime requires 4 shots to kill a normal, unmodded Excalibur. That's gonna take a minimum of 1.44 seconds, assuming you're just standing still and eating bullets. Human reaction time is around 250ms, maybe 300 if you're a little tipsy. That's enough time to react to it, then react to your reaction to it, then react to your reaction to your reaction to it... a total of five reactions before the Lex Prime will kill you. Given that, is the Lex Prime really an "instakill machine"?

I'm the one using the Lex to instakill people, a single headshot deletes most players I aim at