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Amerikanovich

Hildryn feedback, kind of lackluster...

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So I committed to the grind and finally got Hildryn built last week, had fun forma'ing her 5 times (Why the heck does she have a Naramon polarity Aura slot???).

Before I get going, I'll mention that I do not have Adaptation yet, which seems to be a staple for her build, but honestly, if it's so necessary to make her viable, then there might be a problem there.

Playing her made me keep thinking about Rahetalius' video saying CC frames are a dying breed simply because DPS is just so much more effective, and jumping into a crowd of enemies to rescue a downed teammate as Hildryn (her job, as the protector and support tank, you might say) makes this painfully obvious.

She has no power here.

You can push 2 to boost your shields to max and give you a couple seconds longer to revive, while the enemies simply do not care and keep firing.

If you dare to activate her 3 to stun and damage those enemies, you will very quickly drain all your shields and end up dead next to the person you were trying to rescue.

You can also activate her 4 and sit there like spiderman strapped to the front of a speeding train trying to hold the situation under control while yelling for someone to come and help before your shields give out.

5000+ shields are not a boon against enemies over level 40. If the enemies are strong enough to be a threat to 1000 shields, they are just as much of a threat to 5000, and being invincible for 3 seconds when they drain is just going to make it take 3 seconds longer to die, since you need to go take a catnap to recharge them at that capacity.

 

I feel like the per-enemy drain of her 3 and 4 needs to be drastically reduced, and her 2 needs some kind of boost to make it viable against large crowds of enemies.

This could be done by removing her shield cap for a couple seconds when Pillage is cast, giving her the full amount of pillaged shields on return as an overcharge which then drains back down to her maximum shield capacity over the course of 3-5 seconds, maybe while "gassing off" the excess shields in the form of radiation or electricity damage (or an AoE electricity proc) to enemies in her immediate vicinity (this could actually make a pretty good augment mod).

The range on her 4 is also laughably small, the only thing it does outside of helene/hydron is make you a floating target for everyone a couple steps further away while you drain your shields to temporarily hold the 3-4 mobs still in your immediate vicinity before you gasp for air and let them go again, shieldless and vulnerable.

It should either be much bigger, do more damage, proc radiation, or suck enemies outside the range towards it, SOMETHING.

 

As is, she only has one job which she does VERY well: Strip armor and keep your teamates' shields boosted by holding her 3 active and spamming 2.

This relies heavily on teammates taking care of crowds and not going outside of Hildebeest's protection range and dying anyways, because the moment they go down, everyone is f*cked.

 

Am I using her wrong or is there something to this?

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Hildryn is not very good tank by default. U need some items and then Hildryn is rly nice tank. Items like Adaptation (that u mention), Arcane Barrier r3, Arcane Aegis r3. Otherwise its just shield that have rly low ehp.

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I recently ran Hildryn at the sortie-3 Eximus defense mission. Everybody (Chromas, Rhino...) died left and right, as Eximus lvl 110+ spawned. Hildryn did not.

I feel it is a strong, even though not perfect, warframe. Excellent vs Corpus, good vs Grineer, nearly useless vs Infested.

I run it with Adaptation, which makes a tremendous difference as it triggers on damage inflicted to the shields. You pretty much end up at 90% dmg reduction pretty quick with enemies at lvl 60+. Plus Arcane Barrier and Aegis (the shield-related arcanes).

Besides this, my current build revolves around spamming the 2, having 3 on all of the time, and occasional 4.

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First of all:
There is no problem with Hyldrin requiring Adaptation. I mean, there are a lot of mods out there that are pretty much needed on frames and without these mods they would be useless.
And Hyldrin is actually pretty fun. You aren't invinicible from the get go. You have "to work for it". You have to use her 2 to keep your shields up. With a proper build your 3 won't eat through your shields.

Yes, I think you are using her wrong, OP. It seems like you are trying to use her like some other frames. maybe like a Rhino, standing in a crowd of enemies...
You have to play around with her, get a feel for her.
Is she the best frame out there? Thank god no. Because that's boring. Is she a solid and fun frame? I would say yes. But if you don't like her playstyle, then there is actually no way to convince you.

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Just now, WhiteMarker said:

First of all:
There is no problem with Hyldrin requiring Adaptation. I mean, there are a lot of mods out there that are pretty much needed on frames and without these mods they would be useless.
And Hyldrin is actually pretty fun. You aren't invinicible from the get go. You have "to work for it". You have to use her 2 to keep your shields up. With a proper build your 3 won't eat through your shields.

Yes, I think you are using her wrong, OP. It seems like you are trying to use her like some other frames. maybe like a Rhino, standing in a crowd of enemies...
You have to play around with her, get a feel for her.
Is she the best frame out there? Thank god no. Because that's boring. Is she a solid and fun frame? I would say yes. But if you don't like her playstyle, then there is actually no way to convince you.

I run her with the following build, but I'm not sure which stats are the most important or work the best:

Duration:   130%

Efficiency:  80%

Range:      145%

Strength:   275% (300% with growing power)

 

Should I scale back the strength for more efficiency or duration?

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Spoiler

Warframe0311.jpg

That's my build. Ordis tried to hide the Arcane Aegis.
Speed Drift provides a bit of casting speed. And I'm running Amalgam Serration on my Hema. Nice sprint speed...
Fast Deflection is pretty much optional. I like it. I'm hoping for a primed version one day. I'm thinking about Rolling Guard instead of Fast Deflection.
If we ever get an Umbral Redirection, I will slot that in along with Umbral Intensify. But for now this build works really well.

But again: You have to like her playstyle, as with any other frame.

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I'm in the middle of building her right now. I think she's pretty decent, actually, though expensive to get the best out of. I run her with Adaptation, r1 Arcane Barrier, r1 Arcane Aegis, and a Sentinel with Guardian mod. I'm currently levelling her up on a diet of T4 Void Fissures, where she hardly takes a scratch while melting everything in her path with her Larkspur.

Am I entirely happy with her? No. I think her 1 and 4 slow her way down and I really wish they were different. Other than that, though, she reminds me of Inaros, in a Nezha-to-Rhino kind of way. Just as Nezha is like a more support-oriented Rhino, I feel Hildryn is like a more support-oriented Inaros.

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For me it took two formas to like her. She's pretty good now that I have a big range, decent power strength and duration on her. Also adaptation and fast deflection helps a lot keeping those shields up. Only problem is line of sight on her 4th ability sometimes even on flat ground it doesn't want to pick up enemies just because there's a tiny rock between me and the enemy. Other than that she's fine. I usually take her when I'm bored of Zephyr or Revenant. She's basically my third main.

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45 minutes ago, KnossosTNC said:

Am I entirely happy with her? No. I think her 1 and 4 slow her way down and I really wish they were different.

I think her 1 is fine. It's just a 1. I'm using it as an Anti-Wolf weapon, in case he spawns.
I hate the fact that her 4 doesn't automatically activate her 1. If you press 4 and didn't have her 1 active, you are somewhat screwed.

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You must be doing something wrong, or perhaps it's just not your kind of frame. That babe never dies, but she does require a very active playstyle. I don't use Adaptation on her, didn't need it so far.

Naramon aura polarity is for Enemy Radar, so you can see when and where to charge in with your 2, and when to switch off/on your 3.

If you mod for strength, her 3 coupled with armor stripping from her 2 is a remarkable DPS source, but you have to keep moving. Her pocket hand cannon will eat your shields in no time, but is a very strong backup weapon (and fun, cause ka-boom!)

Taxon is your friend, and I recommend taking shield restores for the occasional "oops" moment. Most of the time though, her 2 is sufficient to keep her overshields on constantly. You do need to be smart with it, hence Enemy Radar is crucial.

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12 minutes ago, Iludra said:

Naramon aura polarity is for Enemy Radar, so you can see when and where to charge in with your 2, and when to switch off/on your 3.

Let's be real:
Why would you ever run Enemy Radar as an aura? Especially now with Primed Animal Instinct around.

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Hildryn is a strong frame, kinda slow but other than that the frames kit and usefulness are high level with no issues. Then again Im 1337 and Limbo main so what do I know. lol

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29 minutes ago, WhiteMarker said:

Let's be real:
Why would you ever run Enemy Radar as an aura? Especially now with Primed Animal Instinct around.

Because Corrosive Projection lowers the amount of armor avaliable to pillage (one cast of her 2 does the same job) and she has no energy to restore with Energy Syphon.

I mod her for efficiency, a bit of range and some strength. Can do sorted 3 survivals with out issue.

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3 minutes ago, Harrik79 said:

Because Corrosive Projection lowers the amount of armor avaliable to pillage (one cast of her 2 does the same job)

And this is bad, because?
If enemies don't have "enough" armor for Pillage, then they are just low level mobs. No need to refill your shields all the time, because these enemies won't do any damage...

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49 minutes ago, WhiteMarker said:

Let's be real:
Why would you ever run Enemy Radar as an aura? Especially now with Primed Animal Instinct around.

I've explained why you want to see the enemies from far away when making my point. Primed Animal Instinct is great and all, but I don't want to be dependent on my taxon staying alive for my frame's life. Besides, the aura helps your team mates play smarter, not just yourself. Considering there isn't any other aura worth slotting in there for Hildryn, I'd say Enemy Radar wins.

7 minutes ago, WhiteMarker said:

And this is bad, because?
If enemies don't have "enough" armor for Pillage, then they are just low level mobs. No need to refill your shields all the time, because these enemies won't do any damage...

Not sure if you're overlooking this to prove your point cause you're a die hard CP fan, but Hildryn needs shields not just to protect herself, but also power her abilities. When you strip armor using your aura or weapon, you only get "less enemy armor" as a benefit. If you do the same using Pillage, you not only get "less enemy armor", but also "more power to cast" and "more protection for the whole team". To me, the math is simple.

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2 hours ago, KnossosTNC said:

I think her 1 and 4 slow her way down

No, not anymore, you can sprint while holding it now.

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3 hours ago, Amerikanovich said:

I run her with the following build, but I'm not sure which stats are the most important or work the best:

Duration:   130%

Efficiency:  80%

Range:      145%

Strength:   275% (300% with growing power)

 

Should I scale back the strength for more efficiency or duration?

And there are your problems, right in the stats.

Duration: You want negative dura on her, not too much negative, but negative none the less. This is because Duration effects how long your Pillage travels, which also effects how long before it automatically comes back to you to refill your shields. Negative dura means shorter duration and maximum range, but also a far shorter gap before your shields are refilled.

Efficiency: Oh my oh my. You want maxed out efficiency (90%) on her, there is zero reason for anything else. This also helps reduce your duration stat through fleeting expertise i.e a win-win situation. This lets you keep channeling costs to a bare minimum and still benefit from negative duration.

Range: Nope, not worth giving her any range. It just means longer Pillage and more drain from your #3 since more enemies and friends are within range for no real reason at all. #3 is a utility skill with baked in damage/CC for your benefit mostly. Do not be generous and provide shields to people far off, it is pointless.

Strength: Waaaay overboard. You dont want to strip more armor or shields than needed to keep you alive.

You are looking at her the wrong way. Dont see her as a tank, see her as a tanky healer that stays tanky through selfsustain. Positive dura, range and over the top strength doesnt help with this when coupled with low efficiency. You dont want to overheal, you just want to be able to top of your overshields when you use your skills to sustain yourself.

Aim for something like 65-70% duration, 190% efficiency (maxed Streamline and fleeting experitse), 100% range and 200-225% strength (50-55% shield/armor drain). Leave room for Redirection, Adaption and possibly Vitality (can be a life saver).

edit: Also, do not listen to people that tell you to use CP on her, it is counter productive. Either use GP (to reach the wanted strength) or Steel Charge to fit in umbral mods and cut down people faster in melee.

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2 minutes ago, Iludra said:

I've explained why you want to see the enemies from far away when making my point. Primed Animal Instinct is great and all, but I don't want to be dependent on my taxon staying alive for my frame's life. Besides, the aura helps your team mates play smarter, not just yourself. Considering there isn't any other aura worth slotting in there for Hildryn, I'd say Enemy Radar wins.

Hyldrins 3 helps keeping your drone alive. But I understand your point. Just do it your way.

3 minutes ago, Iludra said:

Not sure if you're overlooking this to prove your point cause you're a die hard CP fan, but Hildryn needs shields not just to protect herself, but also power her abilities. When you strip armor using your aura or weapon, you only get "less enemy armor" as a benefit. If you do the same using Pillage, you not only get "less enemy armor", but also "more power to cast" and "more protection for the whole team". To me, the math is simple.

I didn't overlook anything.

There are 2 scenearios:
1. Enemies don't have enough armor for Pillage to work properly and give you a good chunk of shield. In this case, enemies are low level. You don't need your shields or skills. These enemies die from just looking at them.

2. Enemies have a big armor-pool and are somewhat difficult to kill. You want to remove armor in order to deal more damage. CP helps so that enemies start with a bit less armor. Pillage will still give you a good amount of shield.

Btw. you somewhat ruined your whole point by calling me a "die hard CP fan". Why did you have to make it personal? Why did you have to attack me like that?

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3 minutes ago, WhiteMarker said:

Btw. you somewhat ruined your whole point by calling me a "die hard CP fan". Why did you have to make it personal? Why did you have to attack me like that?

I'm sorry, you're right - it was uncalled for. Past bad forum experience, I guess.

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400% Str Hildryn is good for removing entire armor/shield from groups of enemies, and they cannot regenerate shield later on.

But it is limited to very specific build (needs to proc status and get an energy orb first), so its not able to cast 400% skill all the time.

Just a suggestion for guys wants to deal with armor besides CP aura.

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il y a 32 minutes, WhiteMarker a dit :

And this is bad, because?
If enemies don't have "enough" armor for Pillage, then they are just low level mobs. No need to refill your shields all the time, because these enemies won't do any damage...

QFT.

il y a 20 minutes, Iludra a dit :

Not sure if you're overlooking this to prove your point cause you're a die hard CP fan, but Hildryn needs shields not just to protect herself, but also power her abilities. When you strip armor using your aura or weapon, you only get "less enemy armor" as a benefit. If you do the same using Pillage, you not only get "less enemy armor", but also "more power to cast" and "more protection for the whole team". To me, the math is simple.

Yes, and in any case if CP makes it hard on pillage to regen enough shields you're either casting pillage badly and/or are fighting enemies so bad you could sneeze your way through them without using a single skill. CP gets 30% out of them. Not nearly enough to matter if your Pillage is actually needed, but it still gives you a +40% damage increase across the board. Hard to beat unless you're looking for something specific

il y a 14 minutes, SneakyErvin a dit :

[snip]

That's, like, your opinion man. You are discounting all stats based on bias and literally nothing to back it up. On top of the stupid "but negative duration pillage" which may i remind you has a manual recall funcion, you can have 300% duration and still call it back in a split second... And spreading other misinformation like CP being counterproductive... You really went out of your way to say nothing of value did you?

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17 minutes ago, SneakyErvin said:

possibly Vitality (can be a life saver).

Why would you ever need Vitality if you run low Duration and Adaptation?
Don't you know what Pillage does? óÒ

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From what I've seen she is below average unless you're a vet & have a well built mod kit & arcanes for her.

She is locked behind a nearly impossible grind though so DE might be trying to tell us something there...

My biggest gripe with her came when my buddy & I were seeing what she could do...

Why is she the most muscular Warframe ever...but...she literally never touches an enemy. Her #1 is an Exaulted ranged weapon, everything else is shields.

I gues sher muscle is all for show. No substance to it at all.

I was hoping she'd get to have atleast 1 extremely strong attack that shows off her power. Like a powerbomb, a slam, crushing an enemy against her forehead like a tin can, or have some Hulk/She-Hulk clap or double-axe handle to the ground causing an earthquake type of move. Or...she has a move where she pulls down a satellite with her shields (don't ask) & then spikes it into the ground with her bare hands. I dunno. I expected...strength

Perhaps a move where she picks up the enemy then folds them in half backwards snapping their spine like a toothpick then tosses them so hard into another enemy or wall that they turn to mulch.

But nope. She just poses with weapons & literally hides behind shields (like a coward...); meanwhile, Rhino charges into enemies, roars with power, & stomps the ground with so much power he stops time.

Atlus comes across as stronger in melee combat atm.

I say all this because DE marketed her as this powerhouse. When in truth she is just one of those models who think if they bodybuilder people won't judge then for modeling.

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Just now, (PS4)Zero_029 said:

Why is she the most muscular Warframe ever...but...she literally never touches an enemy. Her #1 is an Exalted ranged weapon, everything else is shields.

I guess her muscle is all for show. No substance to it at all.

Synthol, my man, synthol. That conveniently explains her small HP bar too since Synthol is bad for health. Don't you find some of her muscles oddly shaped? Some people want the gains without the effort.

So when all you have is oil in your muscles, you have to take a gun and hide behind shields.

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Her 3 needs to do something more to enemies to justify the absurd cost.

her 1 needs to gain some kind of benefit for using it in her 4. You get 2 Balefires. The fire rate should at least be doubled.

If we are never going to be allowed to use her 2 during her 4, then the landing animation of her 4 should be sped up.

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