Thumpers are... Where do I even start?

[Ham_Grenabe]

13 hours ago, Lutesque said:

Why does Warframe do this ? The resource grind on Cetus was so bad... after I got my "Meta" Arcanes and amps I never bothered crafting anymore. Sentirum just refuses to drop.... I kept up with my standing to buy blueprints but never crafted them.... whos got time if Sentirum never drops and fishing hotslots get bugged ? 

Then they Change the whole system so drasically that literally have 0 Reason to be on Cetus anymore.... I killed a few thumpers and then I realised I don't need any of that junk.

Why is this game so Polarising ? 

Why not have a decent system at the start instead of two Exremes that just warp the experience regardless if where you were before or after the update ?

The same thing is probably going to happen to all that crap on Fortuna too...

Consider that it’s possible they didn’t realize how much better the minor changes they made for the Fortuna economy model were until they made it and had 6 months or so to look at how it worked.

Then they decided that it was better to implement the better system than leave the Cetus economy to rot. We always complain about them failing to go back and fix old content...this time they did. 

Edited April 15, 2019 by Ham_Grenabe

[Lutesque]

1 hour ago, Ham_Grenabe said:

Then they decided that it was better to implement the better system than leave the Cetus economy to rot. We always complain about them failing to go back and fix old content...this time they did. 

You're missing the issue... The Complaints were not about them not going back to fix it... the issue is with them implementing such a tedious grind in the first place...

There would be nothing to fix if theres weren't 4 Drills... baits... awful mining drop rates, etc. 

[SordidDreams]

4 hours ago, Ham_Grenabe said:

Then they decided that it was better to implement the better system than leave the Cetus economy to rot. We always complain about them failing to go back and fix old content...this time they did. 

Right? I mean, when PoE first came out, there was a sh*tstorm of people complaining about having to grind massive amounts of the new resources, which in many cases just duplicated existing ones (ferrite - ferros, etc.). So now they went back and changed it so you don't have to do that, you need way less and you can obtain them in a much faster and more fun way. And people are complaining about that?

Damned if you do, damned if you don't, apparently.

[Ham_Grenabe]

6 hours ago, Lutesque said:

You're missing the issue... The Complaints were not about them not going back to fix it... the issue is with them implementing such a tedious grind in the first place...

There would be nothing to fix if theres weren't 4 Drills... baits... awful mining drop rates, etc. 

I get that - my point was that perhaps they created Plains of Eidolon (and the associated grind) not thinking about things like "should arcanes be pre-built," but more along the lines of "we have fishing and mining and let's make people need that stuff to do X and Y." 

Only later did they realize it didn't have to be that way. Basically, grind - and often tedious grind - is par for the course in Warframe. I was no fan of th Cetus / Eidolon grind (and even with the Thumper drops and the prebuilt arcanes, there's still a LOT of grind for anyone new-ish to it), but having a perfect level of grind out of the gate for an already out-of-character addition to Warframe (the "open world" stuff) is a big ask.

[CpT-LaZeR]

Just drop a max range frost globe on them and they will be almoust hard cc'ed.

Works like a charm. 

[lexandritte]

Ok, so I took a few days to chill, read through suggestions, do something else, swap some stuff around, and go hunting again.

 

On 2019-04-15 at 7:25 AM, AwkwardLazarow said:

-Get Zenurik with the Void Blast node that slows them down for a bit (this works for everything) it give enough time to get to other side and shoot the legs 

On 2019-04-15 at 3:35 AM, Zilchy said:

The 2 most important things shown here are removing the armour with shattering impact(watch it's health go from yellow to red) and using temporal blast to slow it down for easy weakpoint shots

Temporal blast works like a charm. I had it unlocked since forever but never used since... well, never had to until now. Slow-mo basically completely solves the random jugged movements problem, as well as turning problem.

I went for Redeemer Prime instead of Sarpa. Infinite shotgun / nice spread radius, I'm landing at least solid 5-6 hits per shot.
 

On 2019-04-15 at 3:33 AM, DerGreif2 said:

Thats not a bad thing. To get fish and ore stuff on the plains was horrific. Its a good change. Ignore the market.

I'm not against a new way of getting fish and gems and metals, I'm baffled that they at the same time removed almost all reasons to get it. Then again, Arcanes for just rep is good, but there's literally nothing else to spend those resources on except Zaw and Amp parts. And floofs, I guess.
 

On 2019-04-15 at 3:33 AM, DerGreif2 said:

ALSO: POST IT IN FEEDBACK DUDE!

 

On 2019-04-15 at 6:23 AM, MirageKnight said:

This post ought to be in Feedback, no? That being said, I'll leave this here for everyone's consideration.

My bad. Brain glitch.

 

 

On 2019-04-15 at 7:38 AM, EchoesOfRain said:

I just wish these things didnt turn around so much. In solo it became so frustrating to fight that I just gave up hunting them until my girlfriend could play with me. Even then, it still felt like it never stopped moving and we both had some trouble connecting our shots. Once I heard that Nova can slow it, the fight became trivial, we got our Korrudo bp,  and i have no reason to ever fight it again.

Basically my issue with the design. It's a weird way to make CC relevant again, but without the slowing the fight feels like rubbing your face against Satan buttcheeks, with slowmo it feels like a nice gentle pillow fight.

On 2019-04-15 at 11:30 AM, SordidDreams said:

Mmmm, I'm a bit worried SI has a nerf coming. An SI Sarpa has become a staple of basically all my loadouts recently, since DE decided to start adding lots of tough enemies immune to status procs.

Apparently Mag can do armor-stripping on it. Was running with a pre-Second Dream MR7 buddy of mine, he had Mag on, was surprisingly useful in the fight by debuffing the giant anal plug.

 

 

As part of experimentation, found a new anti-frustration feature: Buzlok. Temporal blast to slow the thing down, pop into WF, tag a leg, jump out, shield, spam bullet. Basically as long as you are not hitting an invincible part first (that's why I'm shooting on an arc OUT, so it bends around), all shots are guaranteed hits. Buzlok build here is low, I don't have enough forma on it to fill all slots, but gets the job done in about 4-5 minutes.

[lexandritte]

Accidental double-post.

Edited April 19, 2019 by lexandritte

[-CdG-Zilchy]

39 minutes ago, lexandritte said:

Temporal blast works like a charm. I had it unlocked since forever but never used since... well, never had to until now. Slow-mo basically completely solves the random jugged movements problem, as well as turning problem.

I went for Redeemer Prime instead of Sarpa. Infinite shotgun / nice spread radius, I'm landing at least solid 5-6 hits per shot.

Glad I could help :)

[lnfine]

45 minutes ago, lexandritte said:

I went for Redeemer Prime instead of Sarpa. Infinite shotgun / nice spread radius, I'm landing at least solid 5-6 hits per shot.

Redeemer and Redeemer Prime should not be stripping armour with ranged attacks and shattering impact.

Shattering impact happens on an instance of impact damage. Redeemer ranged attack is pure blast. I think it can do a forced impact proc, but without actual impact damage component, so no shattering impact for you.

Sarpa is the only gunblade that deals actual impact damage on shots.

[Kingsmount]

The only problems with Thumpers are how awkward their animations are and what a pain their rotation is.  Their quickness strains the sense of... I can't remember the word,  but related to realism and immersion.  Sense of disbeleif?  That doesn't sound right...  Whatever, anyway.  The animations are awkward and their cartoonishly quick.

I really want to see them given more impactful animations and audio,  make the legs slower but make the top part swivel like a proper tank instead of the entire machine turning.    Make the initial armor plates absorb a lot more damage but then reduce the damage reduction on the green weak points underneath,  but still buff their tankiness overall.  

With the swivel addition its animations should accommodate that.  Less frantic awkwardly fast turning of the legs,  the legs will be inclined to stay in their cardinal directions with slow adjustments to angle,  but the turret itself will spin as fast as it does now.  

Maybe give it a second swivel section on top that has a fast machine gun while the middle section swivels slower but aims that big cannon looking thing similar to a grineer sniper as a cannon shot charges,  I'd go as far as to say make it a one-shot but you're not likely to get hit by it if you aren't CC'd... Which you might be if you get caught by the thumping.

 

The different thumpers might have their own effect.   The weakest one might only have the cannon and has a bio weapon causing toxic gas clouds.   The second one might have a freezing effect that does slows that build up to a full freeze.  Frozen targets will be targeted for a jump attack and crush them with the bottom piston.   The third one might have a plasma gun that fires soft-lock seeking ball lightning that has a taze effect, paralysis followed by a crushing attack.    In both cases breaking a leg or damaging the piston enough will interrupt the piston from crushing the stunned player, during  a brief warm up phase after it jumps on top of them.

 

[(PSN)AllOrNothinDays]

It's a horrible enemy, unless I'm specifically equipped for them, I can't take them out in a reasonable amount of time to continue with a bounty and people get distracted by them.

[Lakais]

On 2019-04-14 at 2:24 PM, lexandritte said:

2. MAKE THEM PAUSE MORE OFTEN. The same way Profit Taker collapses when you take all her legs out, stopping it's attacks and giving you a shot at her exposed state, make Thumpers collapse for 10-15 seconds if we deal enough damage to their non-leg or non-HP-related bits, giving us a shot at those LOTUS-DAMNED REAR LEGS.

This here is what I can really get behind. I am also questioning why shooting their legs is the ONLY way to take them down. After doing Exploiter orb a bit, in my mind I hoped that there would be something similar to that where you could weaken it and have the OPTION to go full cinematic. Considering their size then less Exploiter and more rodeo from TF1 or Lost Planet 2. Exposing some weak spot in it's defenses at the top, grabbing on and then unloading your weapon into it while it tries to shake you off. 

 

[lexandritte]

1 hour ago, lnfine said:

Shattering impact happens on an instance of impact damage. Redeemer ranged attack is pure blast. I think it can do a forced impact proc, but without actual impact damage component, so no shattering impact for you.

Sarpa is the only gunblade that deals actual impact damage on shots.

Sad. Oh well... Sarpa it is.

 

[(PSN)JustJoshinEnt]

1 hour ago, Lakais said:

This here is what I can really get behind. I am also questioning why shooting their legs is the ONLY way to take them down. After doing Exploiter orb a bit, in my mind I hoped that there would be something similar to that where you could weaken it and have the OPTION to go full cinematic. Considering their size then less Exploiter and more rodeo from TF1 or Lost Planet 2. Exposing some weak spot in it's defenses at the top, grabbing on and then unloading your weapon into it while it tries to shake you off. 

 

Wouldn't work in an open instance.  Exploiter loads its own bit, and the cinematic takedown is a forced view for ALL players in squad.  Now, imagine you're just fishing and someone is taking one down randomly ... and you keep getting stuck on cinematics that have nothing to do with you...

[(XBOX)Kuljack]

Just spend some time thinking through the fight, it’s really not even that hard.

Nova works on them, so use that to slow the fight down. I use a rubico and staricor, both do considerable damage. I have seen others use Imperator vandal and do wonders. Chroma is not the winning frame for this fight.

Also, Nekros desecrate works apparently so use that to get better chances with blueprint. Make sure you’re the right one, queueing a top bounty increases rarity chance. I already have two of the blueprint and have only done 6 thumpers. Each fight took about 6-10mins with a nova and i may even be inflating that time.

 

Good luck tenno.

[FlusteredFerret]

Killed my first two Thumpers a couple of days ago while gem farming. Surprised at how easy it was, once you know how to do it.

I wasn't even using any special gear. I had my Nyx (which isn't even rank 20 yet), Braton Prime (maxed), kitgun (not maxed) and Paracesis (not maxed).

Obviously the jumping and continually turning to face you, does make it a bit tricky.

 

However I found that engaging them at distance, first shooting the knee plates off to expose the weak spots, does help. It lets you start inflicting damage once you get up close and personal.

 

Parkouring and just moving almost continuously lets you avoid its gun and thump attacks, as well as keeping the weak spots in your sights. I was able to take both down with just my primary, in around 5 minutes each.

 

To be honest, was kinda surprised how quickly they went down. Was expecting a much tougher fight. But then they did only drop fish parts, so...

 

 

[CoreXCZ]

What really bugs me is their speed, they are moving like if they were powered by Duracell batteries.

Let's be honest here and look at it from unique perspective, something that big, and complex should be much slower, especially because it was build by Grineer, a faction which uses crude design in case of most stuff. I mean, ordinary Grineer soldier is a dumb clone, you really want to tell me they can build machines which move like if they were build by... Corpus (Hyena) for example???

They are nice addition, for sure since they take out need to mine and fish, but there's still visible trend in damage reduction which is hilarious at times (Wolf is the greatest example of this trend). They may be easy when you fought few of them, but still, Plains feel more like newbie landscape, that alone makes me wonder if DE really wanted to make them this tough.

Edited April 19, 2019 by CoreXCZ

[FlusteredFerret]

9 minutes ago, CoreXCZ said:

What really bugs me is their speed, they are moving like if they were powered by Duracell batteries.

Let's be honest here and look at it from unique perspective, something that big, and complex should be much slower, especially because it was build by Grineer, a faction which uses crude design in case of most stuff. I mean, ordinary Grineer soldier is a dumb clone, you really want to tell me they can build machines which move like if they were build by... Corpus (Hyena) for example???

They are nice addition, for sure since they take out need to mine and fish, but there's still visible trend in damage reduction which is hilarious at times (Wolf is the greatest example of this trend). They may be easy when you fought few of them, but still, Plains feel more like newbie landscape, that alone makes me wonder if DE really wanted to make them this tough.

True, the speed & jumping is highly unrealistic...but if they didn't they'd be far too easy to take down. Also, its not like there's much about this game that IS realistic.

Also the Grineer aren't "dumb". They're at least as intelligent as the Corpus and have plenty of decent tech of their own.

Finally, they aren't that hard to take down...shoot the knee plates off (best done at range). That way you can start shooting the weak spots up close. You also just have to remember to keep moving. Doesn't take long to get the hang of it.

Some people have said they use Archwings, but I can't control mine well enough to shoot accurately.

 

[-CdG-Zilchy]

There are obviously a lot of ways to fight these things but if you just want to kill them fast as possible for farming purposes, then I recommend this. Chroma eidolon build with an eidolon build rubico P, hikou to buff vex and sarpa to strip the armour. Slow it down with temporal blast. Note however if you're not farming the mods or blueprint, Nekros can increase the resource drops from killing it. This was bounty 5 naturally, it's a pretty quick farming method and they were popping up every minute or so while I was out on the plains. Watch without sound unless you wish to hear my keyboard lol.

 

Edited April 19, 2019 by Zilchy

[Lakais]

4 hours ago, (PS4)Taishin_Ishu said:

Wouldn't work in an open instance.  Exploiter loads its own bit, and the cinematic takedown is a forced view for ALL players in squad.  Now, imagine you're just fishing and someone is taking one down randomly ... and you keep getting stuck on cinematics that have nothing to do with you...

That's the thing, it doesn't have to be a cinematic. I am not sure if you have played TitanFall 1 or Lost Planet 1 and 2. But basically in those, you use mobility to latch onto a weak point (in TF1 it takes a moment to remove a protective cover) and then you point blank empty your firearm into the weak point. During this time, the enemy in question has full mobility but has ways to shake you off. You can disengage at any point too. No actual cinematic is played. Exploiter orb's takedown is an actual cinematic and that fits for that particular situation. 

[kgptzac]

Actually we don't need a grineer exploiter orb right in the Plains.  The exploiter orb fight is a sleep-inducing boring activity that I never want to do it again after getting Hildryn parts...

[(PSN)JustJoshinEnt]

12 hours ago, Lakais said:

That's the thing, it doesn't have to be a cinematic. I am not sure if you have played TitanFall 1 or Lost Planet 1 and 2. But basically in those, you use mobility to latch onto a weak point (in TF1 it takes a moment to remove a protective cover) and then you point blank empty your firearm into the weak point. During this time, the enemy in question has full mobility but has ways to shake you off. You can disengage at any point too. No actual cinematic is played. Exploiter orb's takedown is an actual cinematic and that fits for that particular situation. 

I read your post originally as calling FOR a cinematic.  I've not played the aforementioned games, but I can understand the concept.  I DO think that could be a fun, more engaging way to use our Frames' mobility and whatnot.  

That being said, ESPECIALLY with so many players fighting at once, I can see it being riddled with bugs, as well.  Like, how do you deal with 4 players going for the same limb at the same time?  I'm not saying it can't be done, but just pointing out why it might not have BEEN done thus far.

Perhaps you should add it to feedback? I'd love to read more about that specifically...

[ranks21]

this enemy is too easy to kill<>

step 1. remove the 4 shield covers on the legs

step 2. those indicator light on the legs is its weak spot fire away, no fancy element needed just a weapon with punch thru to hit 2 legs at a time on each side left or right.

ps: K.I.S.S. keep it stupid simple.

[(PSN)guzmantt1977]

On 2019-04-14 at 1:35 PM, Zilchy said:

@Aldain @lexandritte here you are gentlemen. I put the eidolon killer back in the uber closet 🙂, dusted off my lex prime, removed all the hard to get mods from it ie primed and shadow debt ones and got stuck in. The volt build is purely an efficiency build, admittedly it has arcane guardian but that's only because I forgot to unequip it, I barely got attacked anyway because the volt shield blocks it all. Keep in mind this is a bounty 5 thumper, they are much easier on lower bounties but give better loot at higher level obviously. This lex prime build and sarpa build should be much more approachable for newer players to equip, I doubt that much forma is needed for the lex it's just the amount I have for when I use the primed mods and everything else I have. The 2 most important things shown here are removing the armour with shattering impact(watch it's health go from yellow to red) and using temporal blast to slow it down for easy weakpoint shots. Keep in mind if you do not strip the armour, you are attempting to shoot through an alloy armour value of 5000, compared to only 100 with it stripped... Weapon builds shown at the end of the video so you can see that I didn't swap out my build or cheat.
 

For the record a new player could use literally any sniper rifle and make the fight easier for themselves, this is just to show it can be done comfortably with a budget build.

gg

👏

[Lakais]

18 hours ago, (PS4)Taishin_Ishu said:

I read your post originally as calling FOR a cinematic.  I've not played the aforementioned games, but I can understand the concept.  I DO think that could be a fun, more engaging way to use our Frames' mobility and whatnot.  

That being said, ESPECIALLY with so many players fighting at once, I can see it being riddled with bugs, as well.  Like, how do you deal with 4 players going for the same limb at the same time?  I'm not saying it can't be done, but just pointing out why it might not have BEEN done thus far.

Perhaps you should add it to feedback? I'd love to read more about that specifically...

Well, to fix the issue of who gets to "go for a ride" I'd picture that weak spot not being on the legs, but somewhere on the top. And that only one player can be attached at any one time for a limited time. Preferably you'd need to weaken the Thumper so it staggers or stuns, at which point a player jumps on (first come, first serve with the rest just sliding off like we do now) and removes or holds open some hatch or piece of armor to expose the insides and just unloads. There is an entire side to all the Thumpers (weakest has two) that has no weapons to it which would be perfect for such a place without overlaping the top drone launcher area. 

As for why it might not have been done, not enough time or tech for it, perhaps. Or I think more likely is that DE decided to play it smart and assume that damn near everyone will figure out some stupidly fast way to take them down and not even bother with that extra complexity of a contextual takedown. As cool as it might of been, if no one bothers to use it then it's wasted dev time and that's precious. 

PS: You really have missed out on not playing those games. TF1 and TF2 are awesome games but TF1 is multiplayer only and while TF2 has a very tight singleplayer campaign, the multiplayer for both has a very high skill ceiling and floor and the vets have no concept of dialing down the tryhard. Lost Planet 1-3 are available on steam (2 might be region locked as it is for me, 3 is meh) and it is a joy of a game. Kill giant bugs in a variety of mechs and on foot. I wholly recommend. 

Edited April 20, 2019 by Lakais