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BLI7Z

P2W

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At first, I convinced myself that Waframe ain't pay to win. Now I know it is.

With enough money you can buy just anything (except the gameplay experience).

So... if I have money and want to put it into this game, where is the actual hardcore challenge? Not even the grind is a challenge, only long and boring timewalls. 

I end up playing games that are actually competitive PvP FPS at the end of the day...

Warframe feels like some kind of relaxing place... but a long time ago it felt like a good dark place to call home... 

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Simple solution; if spending money trivializes the game, don't spend the money.

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hace 3 minutos, MagPrime dijo:

Simple solution; if spending money trivializes the game, don't spend the money.

And then how would I support a F2P game that I've been playing for some years and want it to keep on thriving? I don't want to depend on other people maybe paying for something I want to be eternal.

And what would I do with all that loads of platinum? Buy "godlike" rivens from people, enabling them to get into the P2W status? I prefer wasting that platinum (real money) in the market so it disappears from the player market. 

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1 minute ago, BLI7Z said:

And then how would I support a F2P game that I've been playing for some years and want it to keep on thriving? I don't want to depend on other people maybe paying for something I want to be eternal.

And what would I do with all that loads of platinum? Buy "godlike" rivens from people, enabling them to get into the P2W status? I prefer wasting that platinum (real money) in the market so it disappears from the player market. 

Buy cosmetics (Deluxe skins, syandanas, color palletes). Or buy stuff from tennogen which supports DE AND the skin creators.

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You're paying for convenience. Not to "win". I like Waframe has approached it this way without ludicrous time gates. 

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Justo ahora, (PS4)Technesiss dijo:

You're paying for convenience. Not to "win". 

The convenience of getting almost everything Waframe has to offer? That feels like P2W

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2 minutes ago, BLI7Z said:

And then how would I support a F2P game that I've been playing for some years and want it to keep on thriving? I don't want to depend on other people maybe paying for something I want to be eternal.

And what would I do with all that loads of platinum? Buy "godlike" rivens from people, enabling them to get into the P2W status? I prefer wasting that platinum (real money) in the market so it disappears from the player market. 

Cosmetics, slots, Forma bundles, potatoes, Exilus Adapters, etc.

Also, due to the nature of Warframe, it isn't true Pay to Win, as there isn't any "winning" in this game.  The closest you get it by adhering to the META but that changes frequently and still requires player effort to achieve.

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On 2019-04-15 at 4:17 AM, BLI7Z said:

The convenience of getting almost everything Waframe has to offer? That feels like P2W

P2W implies that without paying you're at a severe disadvantage compared to those who do pay. Or that the amount of playtime needed vs cost is not balanced. Sure you could pay for everything but the game hasn't been built to where that's your only option to progress in a reasonable amount of time. 

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Justo ahora, MagPrime dijo:

Cosmetics, slots, Forma bundles, potatoes, Exilus Adapters, etc.

Also, due to the nature of Warframe, it isn't true Pay to Win, as there isn't any "winning" in this game.  The closest you get it by adhering to the META but that changes frequently and still requires player effort to achieve.

You can buy all prime stuff, and all needed mods, and all the ayatan you need to upgrade those mods. Also you can buy fishes, etc, to get your rep maxed. And it ain't hard to get credits with a credit booster in the index. If you get all the hard hitting stuff, and max everything, everything gets totally trivialized. 

I know that all of that stuff bought... someone had to farm it, so anyone else can trade it and get it for plat.

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Justo ahora, (PS4)Technesiss dijo:

P2W implies that without paying you're at a severe disadvantage compared to those who do pay. Or that the amount of playtime needed vs cost is not balanced. Sure your could pay for everything but the game hasn't been built to where that's your only option to progress

Well, you are right. In any case, it is ... pay to get everything the game has to offer without a hard effort.

I am writing this after 2200hs of gameplay, grinding and farming for lots of stuff, and paying because I feel DE and Warframe is something amazing. 

My girlfriend started playing a month ago, and while helping her rank up and get stuff, I got into thinking this. That it is really, really easy to be powerful and to get everything here. 

The problem is that when you get a hold of everything, and it feels so easy to get everything... it becomes something unrewarding, something trivial, something like is like a walk in the park. I always loved Warframe 'cause I felt like I had real challenges. Now I fell like I am going for a walk in some sunny and beautiful place instead of getting into the maws of hell itself. 

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2 minutes ago, BLI7Z said:

You can buy all prime stuff, and all needed mods, and all the ayatan you need to upgrade those mods. Also you can buy fishes, etc, to get your rep maxed. And it ain't hard to get credits with a credit booster in the index. If you get all the hard hitting stuff, and max everything, everything gets totally trivialized. 

I know that all of that stuff bought... someone had to farm it, so anyone else can trade it and get it for plat.

Been playing for over 5 years, I know how to trivialize the game with plat.  My point still stands though, Warframe doesn't lend itself to P2W like you're talking about.

But the simplest solution is this; don't spend money on the game in the manner you're talking about.

Want to support DE?  Buy Dark Sector.  Buy stock in their company.  Buy TennoCon tickets, digital and otherwise, and gift them to others.

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3 minutes ago, BLI7Z said:

The convenience 

What convenience? Trade chat? Bruh, IDC how much money you throw at the game, there is no guarantee you'll get anything in trade chat. Much less conveniently. Lol

 

1 minute ago, BLI7Z said:

You can buy all prime stuff, and all needed mods, and all the ayatan you need to upgrade those mods

Oh you can huh? Go buy Excal Prime, Skana Prime, Lato Prime..how bout vaulted cosmetics...I'll wait..  also again there also is no gauratee some one will trade u anything 

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By trading, and thus emptying the stores of platinum from players that do buy prime access, you assist DE in maintaining a healthy premium currency economy.

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But what are you paying to win...? You're not getting an advantage over the other person who chose to grind for the same thing... if anything all you are doing is paying to do it faster, and play the game less, which leads to less enjoyment. If anything, you're paying to lose.

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hace 1 minuto, (XB1)RDeschain82 dijo:

What convenience? Trade chat? Bruh, IDC how much money you throw at the game, there is no guarantee you'll get anything in trade chat. Much less conveniently. Lol

 

Oh you can huh? Go buy Excal Prime, Skana Prime, Lato Prime..how bout vaulted cosmetics...I'll wait..  also again there also is no gauratee some one will trade u anything 

In waframe.market you can get almost anything. Excal, Skana and Lato prime are exclusives that have been always out of discussion. 

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5 minutes ago, BLI7Z said:

Well, you are right. In any case, it is ... pay to get everything the game has to offer without a hard effort.

I am writing this after 2200hs of gameplay, grinding and farming for lots of stuff, and paying because I feel DE and Warframe is something amazing. 

My girlfriend started playing a month ago, and while helping her rank up and get stuff, I got into thinking this. That it is really, really easy to be powerful and to get everything here. 

The problem is that when you get a hold of everything, and it feels so easy to get everything... it becomes something unrewarding, something trivial, something like is like a walk in the park. I always loved Warframe 'cause I felt like I had real challenges. Now I fell like I am going for a walk in some sunny and beautiful place instead of getting into the maws of hell itself. 

Your issue you're describing has more to do with player reward value after huge amounts of gametime. Not the game being P2W. 

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Seems like your real problem is not other people "winning" but you feel that you're losing because other people can get the stuff you want so much easier than you. Making all the effort you put into the game seems pointless.

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7 minutes ago, BLI7Z said:

You can buy all prime stuff, and all needed mods, and all the ayatan you need to upgrade those mods. Also you can buy fishes, etc, to get your rep maxed. And it ain't hard to get credits with a credit booster in the index. If you get all the hard hitting stuff, and max everything, everything gets totally trivialized. 

I think you're severely underestimating the difficulty of Warframe, or underestimating the general stupidity of people. I've seen a MR 18 years ago (when the highest MR was around 19-21, I think) who go down in Sortie a lot for going off on his own, while my MR 14 self and a MR 15 are still able to handle themselves. Just because you have everything, doesn't mean you know how to use them. The user behind the equipment is just as important.

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hace 1 minuto, Rekkou dijo:

Seems like your real problem is not other people "winning" but you feel that you're losing because other people can get the stuff you want so much easier than you. Making all the effort you put into the game seems pointless.

Actually, the problem is that what I had to get with lots of effort and enjoyment when I had no money... I can have it with no effort and no enjoyment while having money to spend. And also, after getting a hold on the stuff I want... there are no more rewards, progression gets totally capped.

hace 5 minutos, (PS4)Technesiss dijo:

Your issue you're describing has more to do with player reward value after huge amounts of gametime. Not the game being P2W. 

True, but you can also get a low reward value if you buy stuff and have a taste of what it is to be really powerful, spending plat and getting everything maxed and the frames you want. The gameplay might be amazing, something one of a kind... but if it lacks a real reward system.

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23 minutes ago, BLI7Z said:

where is the actual hardcore challenge? Not even the grind is a challenge, only long and boring timewalls. 

2 minutes ago, BLI7Z said:

The problem is that when you get a hold of everything, and it feels so easy to get everything... it becomes something unrewarding, something trivial, something like is like a walk in the park. I always loved Warframe 'cause I felt like I had real challenges. Now I fell like I am going for a walk in some sunny and beautiful place instead of getting into the maws of hell itself. 

This seems to be what you're actually complaining about, thinly veiled under a P2W issue. That issue stands regardless of how much plat you spend, the game has no end game, has a low skill ceiling, with insane player power lvls, and bad enemy scaling, it's not really some secret.

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Justo ahora, Gamma745 dijo:

I think you're severely underestimating the difficulty of Warframe, or underestimating the general stupidity of people. I've seen a MR 18 years ago (when the highest MR was around 19-21, I think) who go down in Sortie a lot for going off on his own, while my MR 14 self and a MR 15 are still able to handle themselves. Just because you have everything, doesn't mean you know how to use them. The user behind the equipment is just as important.

I know that, and that is applicable in everything in life. The mind behind the equipment is what makes the equipment useful. But what about players that know their trade and tools and want more? It gets limited and starts to get unrewarding. 

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hace 1 minuto, rapt0rman dijo:

This seems to be what you're actually complaining about, thinly veiled under a P2W issue. That issue stands regardless of how much plat you spend, the game has no end game, has a low skill ceiling, with insane player power lvls, and bad enemy scaling, it's not really some secret.

Exactly. And I could actually see that after helping my grilfriend get to MR14, and buying plat for her, and helping her get all the stuff she wanted (by grinding and trading). After that I got again to the spot where I was before all that... having nothing to aspire to. And she got into my same spot after ONLY 1 month of hard gameplay...

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