PvE+PvP Players are leaving the game :(

[(XBOX)Zweimander]

The main attraction of warframe is the PvE not the PvP. go play destiny or some other multiplayer only game if you want PvP...

[Dark_Chroma_Prime]

Don't mind if those people leave, they can go and play this bulS#&$ of gamble in destiny.

The great part of Warframe is that we DON'T have to play PVP to get new weapons etc(except of some ugly decorations). Warframe is 99,5% PVE focused the main reason people play it, the remaining 0,5% is PVP, cause nearly no one is interested in it

[Acos]

5 hours ago, Kontrollo said:

Let's compare then; what you took from that thread, and a few things that I actually wrote there:

In conclusion, let me simply expand on that last part for you, even if I don't really agree with these points (you don't really back up your stuff yet presume to speak for the devs):

4) Comparatively, DE didn't put a lot of effort into it in the first place (and that's alright because it's not the main focus of the game) and almost none in over half a year . However, they could at least do some basic maintenance because yes, some people enjoy it still, despite all that. Only recently, some unlisted changes made it in and improved the situation, part of that was removing Zaws. Yes, you read that right: removing things makes the game mode better these days.

Alternative 4) DE should not put any effort into it and shouldn't have put any effort into it in the first place (because I don't like it).

 

Decide for yourself which stance is more grounded than the other.

Right, that's the last dig I'm taking from you. I have been quite transparent in what I think and my reasons and sources as to why, my only "failure" to back up my argument is that I won't go sifting through devstreams for you, and quite frankly your insistence that I go do this for you is absurd given that it is entirely unnecessary to our conversation given that we are possessed of the same information at this point. I don't intend to speak for the developers, go look up what the word "infer" means and get back too me. I have explained why I think they have approached PVP in the manner they have based on the evidence provided to us (both yours and mine), which is exactly what you have been doing as well albeit in the most roundabout method you have available, so whatever accusation you're trying to make of me is hypocritical at best, and meaningless in truth. 

Do you assume my argument to be that I don't want developers to work on PVP because I do not personally care for it? Is that perhaps why you've been sidetracking my argument and dancing around your argument by asking me questions instead of making your point in order trap me into giving that as an answer? That has not been my point for the several times that you've asked me to remake it for you, and this entire exercise in trying to get me to arrive to that conclusion has been tiresome and childish. I don't think the developers have worked on PVP because PVP in Warframe has proven to be unpopular, and I don't know how I can make that point any more succinct for you. If you wish to derive other things from my very simple argument from there, that is entirely a fiction you can do by yourself as I am done entertaining this topic. 

Edited April 17, 2019 by Acos

[Almagnus1]

57 minutes ago, Acos said:

I don't think the developers have worked on PVP because PVP in Warframe has proven to be unpopular, and I don't know how I can make that point any more succinct for you.

You're missing the counter argument to this that it's unpopular because it's just not good.  We deal WAAAAY to much damage to basically instantly chunk one another if we go at it with a normal setup, and there's next to no concept of balance in Conclave.

Then there's Lunaro.

DE is (as usual) not listening to their playerbase and doing what they want as there's many staple PvP modes like like Capture the Flag and a PvP Interception mode that would work well... but DE gives PvPers a janky mod system that's not easy for me to initially buy into, so I'm forced into losing until I can grind out the mdos to build the weapons so that I can actually be somewhat competitive in PvP... rather than just taking my PvE loadout and playing.

[low1991]

On 2019-04-15 at 6:36 PM, Swagernator22663 said:

Dont worry OP, DE will make PVP ... forced to everyone, you like it ? You dont ? They dont care, you will be forced to play PVP, just you wait.

 

 

Oh yes... the time limited snowball conclave event that alot of the players AFK in-game.

[Kontrollo]

48 minutes ago, Acos said:

I don't intend to speak for the developers, go look up what the word "infer" means and get back too me.

Sure you aren't. I think our conversation has shown pretty well what you're about. At this point I'm just going to assume you have never actually tried that part of the game and are just in this thread to keep arguing against it. Or rather, now that I've actually come up with detailed information it sounds like you want to bow out of here. (Honestly I hope you do, maybe then I can go back doing something productive.)

Remember my first post in response to you? This is where the "mildly annoyed" comes from. You're not the first one nor will you be the last who is trying to argue against that part of the game getting even what little bit of attention it would actually deserve. Let alone a bit more as requested by the OP. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Meanwhile I hope you've seen the two posts following mine, maybe you finally understand where I'm coming from, but honestly I'm not getting my hopes up at this point. 🙄

 

I've been pretty straight forward here in my earlier posts in this thread, and I've backed everything up I've said so far. It was your decision to draw this out, it is not actually my fault.

• You could've gone to the patch notes on the wiki, done an 'Expand All' and  Ctrl + F, then search for Conclave. 1 minute tops.
• You could've visited that thread where I've already listed pretty detailed information and quoted my posts from there. You decided to not do that.
• You write "DE safely assumes their playerbase isn't interested in PVP, playerbase continues to thrive and grow without its conclusion." when I told this is not a "the game is dying thread" and I'd say the OP confirmed as much.

If you're not interested in providing feedback for this part of the game because you have no interest in it, then why do you put so much effort into arguing against what I write?

 

Now to recap:

• I've given insight on how much effort the devs put into it. Or rather don't put into it. (After asking you to provide some kind of perspective several times, mind you.)
• I've shown that people have been playing it, and as said before it's very easy to confirm yourself that this is still the case.
• I've said that from what I've seen it was in a better state in early 2017, which was before I took a break from the game.
• I've stated that I think it's not too much to ask that the mode gets at least a bit of maintenance to address the sorry state it is in. The OP goes further, I haven't even been trying to argue for that in our little exchange here.
• Yet I continually get responses that are not actually addressing any of that. Must be pure coincidence. /s

 

Oh and of course let's not forget these "fun" parts here:

Spoiler

Here's how we started:

23 hours ago, Acos said:

There's already a plethora of other games that offer a dedicated PVP experience that I don't feel like Warframe needs to dilute itself making it a focus.

What focus? The mode needs some basics getting addressed at this point in time.

 

11 hours ago, Acos said:

I will put the burden of evidence on you then since you haven't provided any yourself. Perhaps our expectation of developer effort is different, but I have been playing this game actively for six years now, so I don't feel as though I am possessed of any less information than you.

10 hours ago, Acos said:

The burden of evidence is greater than my interest in this topic ...

7 hours ago, Acos said:

I didn't omit anything, I directly referenced the person you were talking too (who also disagrees with you) and elaborated on his point. ...

7 hours ago, Acos said:

... I am not entirely sure what you think that interaction is supposed to prove for you given that you've just discredited the entire conversation you had with SilentMobious ...

...

13 hours ago, Acos said:

You are coming off rather aggressively in your post. 

You use the royal "we", but statistics are not actually on your side of the argument.

7 hours ago, Acos said:

I'm not surprised you feel you are having a difficult time communicating with people on this forum given your style of argument. ...

7 hours ago, Acos said:

Also, its' really disingenuous for you to act like I have been side-stepping my evidence because you refuse to acknowledge the Devstream and Developer activity you are entirely aware of until I do.

1 hour ago, Acos said:

... last dig ...

1 hour ago, Acos said:

... accusation you're trying to make of me is hypocritical ...

1 hour ago, Acos said:

... this entire exercise in trying to get me to arrive to that conclusion has been tiresome and childish.

On that last one I actually agree.

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[Kontrollo]

Alright, looks like the talking to people who can't put things in perspective is really over now, so I can move onto something more enjoyable -- sorry for ignoring:

 

On 2019-04-17 at 10:41 AM, MystMan said:

The closest thing that resembles Warframe's pvp is Gunz, a game from 2003.  A very niche game that only hardcore gamers even know exists, the general gaming populace never heard of it. And there's a reason for this as to why it's such an obscure niche game: there aren't enough gamers who can handle and enjoy this high speed pvp, the demand just isn't there so it never took off to the limelight like the Counterstrikes and Battle Royals and their many many clones. 

Slower paced pvp is simply what the market wants and enjoys the most. Developers know this so they all have stuck to that all these years, this is why it's so hard to find Gunz alternatives. Gunz is still up btw and it's a safe bet to say way more active and alive than Warframe's conclave.

I've seen that mention a few times and had a look at your link. The gameplay looks like it could appeal to me, at least from the mobility perspective, but it's of course hard to judge from footage alone. And when comparing that to Warframe, it's still like day and night.

Here's the Gunz trailer from their site:

Spoiler

 

And here's Witchydragon's unofficial Conclave trailer from back in 2016:

Spoiler

 

 

On 2019-04-17 at 10:41 AM, MystMan said:

... Take it from me, don't waste your life sticking around a game you have burnt out from hoping it will become something better you want it to be. Game development takes years to make and perfect, years better spent looking and discovering other games that you will like.  

Not actually what I'm looking for, by the way. I'd be happy if it just were brought roughly back to the state of early 2017, back before I took a break. Or rather, if they would reintroduce Opticor Variant or one of the other Variant modes. Everyone on equal footing, I'd say I would play it again. Not as avidly as I did, just here and there, to enjoy that part of the game again.

 

Edit: So yes, maybe I should check out Gunz after all, maybe I will, not sure yet. I've also been playing with the thought of buying UT2004 from GOG again. You know, from back when Epic & DE made great arena shooters.

Edited April 18, 2019 by Kontrollo

[Aramil999]

On 2019-04-17 at 12:00 PM, (XB1)Zweimander said:

The main attraction of warframe is the PvE not the PvP. go play destiny or some other multiplayer only game if you want PvP...

 

On 2019-04-17 at 1:01 PM, Dark_Chroma_Prime said:

Warframe is 99,5% PVE focused the main reason people play it, the remaining 0,5% is PVP, cause nearly no one is interested in it

 

Guys... Warframe misses this whole lot of potential PvP funs.

Look at hard statistics:

Online players right now:

Dota2 582 000

PUBG 538 000

CS:GO 352 000

Rainbow Six Siege 59 000

Warframe 54 000

...... League of Legends and Fortnite has many MANY more than DOTA2, there are littyeraly millions of players who love pure PvP and/or PvE games with good PvP content. Stop that "Warframe doesn't need PvP" bullsh*** mentality. It is dumb.

DE does everything to make better game and get more players. PvP such as Stalker Mode (which is very much Confirmed) maybe will bring some of them.

[Guest]

8 minutes ago, Aramil999 said:

...... League of Legends and Fortnite has many MANY more than DOTA2, there are littyeraly millions of players who love pure PvP and/or PvE games with good PvP content. Stop that "Warframe doesn't need PvP" bullsh*** mentality. It is dumb.

That is a tired and dumb argument already. There are already games which cater to these players much better than Warframe can ever do so. Making the Devs work on something they won't win another game at the expense of the rest of the game is a losing battle.

There are players that love PvP and games dedicated to purely that with no PvE content. Warframe Devs have to make PvE content as well. No matter what you do, the total man hours they can spare on PvP will be inadequate. There is no incentive for the PvP market to switch to Warframe.

In that case, why waste time trying to draw in a market that doesn't materialize?

[Dark_Chroma_Prime]

1 minute ago, Aramil999 said:

 

 

Guys... Warframe misses this whole lot of potential PvP funs.

Look at hard statistics:

Online players right now:

Dota2 582 000

PUBG 538 000

CS:GO 352 000

Rainbow Six Siege 59 000

Warframe 54 000

...... League of Legends and Fortnite has many MANY more than DOTA2, there are littyeraly millions of players who love pure PvP and/or PvE games with good PvP content. Stop that "Warframe doesn't need PvP" bullsh*** mentality. It is dumb.

DE does everything to make better game and get more players. PvP such as Stalker Mode (which is very much Confirmed) maybe will bring some of them.

Ever thought of the Idea that Warframe players exactly don't play any of these games BECAUSE those games are PVP focused and Wf players pretty dislike till hate PVP. Thats the reason why MANY MANY MANY players ignore conclave, THEY DON'T WANT TO PLAY PVP.

Conclave should be fully removed, just like the raids there is only a small minority who playes conclave, imo even smaller than the raid community. It takes to much capacity to keep conclave running, just like raids, both of them have/had to looked over and fixing it, while those devs carring it, can be used in other parts of warframe (Eidolon fight as an example).

 

Until, anyone of DE really comfirms for everyone in Warframe will be able to play Stalker Mode, this mode is non existent. The only times we were able to see this mode was during tennocon, dev- primetime streams, content creators(if the even were able to play it), as I can see it now the Stalkermode is just a gimick DE uses. Hoping to get it is like hoping to get back a 100% bless trinity

[Aramil999]

2 minutes ago, Datam4ss said:

Making the Devs work on something they won't win another game at the expense of the rest of the game is a losing battle.

Well but DE wants to work on it. 

Besides Stalker Mode is almost ready for like few YEARS now...

[Aramil999]

1 minute ago, Dark_Chroma_Prime said:

It takes to much capacity to keep conclave running,

This is just lie, back when Conclave had updates it was 2 DE employees who did job after hours. 

Now not a single DE member works on Conclave, there was no patch for it in few mounths.

[Guest]

Just now, Aramil999 said:

Well but DE wants to work on it. 

Besides Stalker Mode is almost ready for like few YEARS now...

If they wanted to work on it, have you ever wondered why they are so lazy on conclave or implementation of that Stalker mode you seem crazy about?

I can tell you I am doing my homework, but if you see me playing games I don't think you will be very convinced.

The fact is that time and resources are limited. More time spent on PvP work means less time for other things. With everyone complaining about content drought or old bugs not fixed, PvP deserves the back burner as it doesn't cater to the majority of current players.

Again, as I mention, there is no point risking current paying players for potential players if the numbers don't cut it.

[Dark_Chroma_Prime]

1 minute ago, Aramil999 said:

This is just lie, back when Conclave had updates it was 2 DE employees who did job after hours. 

Now not a single DE member works on Conclave, there was no patch for it in few mounths.

just an other reason it should get removed

[Otaiken]

1 hour ago, Aramil999 said:

Well but DE wants to work on it. 

Besides Stalker Mode is almost ready for like few YEARS now...

The beautiful dream is that this mode will result in a tense battle between the Stalker and the host as they play a game of cat and mouse through the mission.

The unfortunate reality is that the Stalker will be exploded by a squad of roided-up metabuild gankers the moment he loads into the level. Think sunbro ganksquad but with weapons of mass destruction instead of swords and shields.

I think this is the main reason we don't have the mode yet.

[Aldain]

1 minute ago, LocoWithGun said:

The unfortunate reality is that the Stalker will be exploded by a squad of roided-up metabuild gankers the moment he loads into the level.

Or a MR27 who can beat missions without touching the ground will wind up going after some MR0 newbie who doesn't even know which end of the gun is supposed to be pointed at the enemy.

Both of these are equally as trolly and come standard with an invasion system, which I still hold is something Warframe doesn't need and most people will opt-out of day zero.

[Aramil999]

52 minutes ago, Aldain said:

Or a MR27 who can beat missions without touching the ground will wind up going after some MR0 newbie who doesn't even know which end of the gun is supposed to be pointed at the enemy.

Both of these are equally as trolly and come standard with an invasion system, which I still hold is something Warframe doesn't need and most people will opt-out of day zero.

Yet many players want it anyways. Like say ... i don't know... 57 players out of 60 i asked on region chat, all people who I know irl who play warframe, most of my clanmates (mountain clan Dolmari), all my friends who doesn't play warframe YET.... I have no idea who might want this gamemode.

[Otaiken]

38 minutes ago, Aramil999 said:

Yet many players want it anyways. Like say ... i don't know... 57 players out of 60 i asked on region chat, all people who I know irl who play warframe, most of my clanmates (mountain clan Dolmari), all my friends who doesn't play warframe YET.... I have no idea who might want this gamemode.

I'm pretty sure that 60 out of 60 people in region chat think Nezha is a CENSORED. So it's about time DE made that canon... maybe through a cinematic quest?

[Aramil999]

I love how exacly the same 5 players hate all PvP related content on this forum... someone pays you? Or it is some childhood related PvP trauma?

[Aldain]

5 minutes ago, Aramil999 said:

I love how exacly the same 5 players hate all PvP related content on this forum... someone pays you? Or it is some childhood related PvP trauma?

There are more than 5 people across these 4 pages saying they don't think PvP is that integral to Warframe.

You are claiming that we're paid shills just because we don't agree with you and are trying to say the only reason we don't like PvP is because we suck at it by implying trauma.

You could not be more disingenuous if you tried.

[Chappie]

So the OP's logic is a vegan restaurant should serve meat because most people eat meat and that will increase their customer retention?   

Edited April 23, 2019 by Chappie1975

[Aramil999]

48 minutes ago, Chappie1975 said:

So the OP's logic is a vegan restaurant should serve meat because most people eat meat and that will increase their customer retention?   

Finaly someone GETs it! But Warframe was vegan restaurant in 2011 now it is normal restaurant with very VERY disguesting one meat meal... it is not purely PvE, vegan game. Solar Rails, Conclave events? Now Stalker Mode? 

[MJ12]

5 hours ago, Aramil999 said:

 

 

Guys... Warframe misses this whole lot of potential PvP funs.

Look at hard statistics:

Online players right now:

Dota2 582 000

PUBG 538 000

CS:GO 352 000

Rainbow Six Siege 59 000

Warframe 54 000

...... League of Legends and Fortnite has many MANY more than DOTA2, there are littyeraly millions of players who love pure PvP and/or PvE games with good PvP content. Stop that "Warframe doesn't need PvP" bullsh*** mentality. It is dumb.

DE does everything to make better game and get more players. PvP such as Stalker Mode (which is very much Confirmed) maybe will bring some of them.

Look at hard statistics:

Online players right now:

Warframe 54,000

Tribes Ascend 19.3

Lawbreakers 0.1

I'm sure Warframe will benefit from the 19.4 fans of high-mobility PvP shooters they'll get.

[Almagnus1]

4 hours ago, Aldain said:

Or a MR27 who can beat missions without touching the ground will wind up going after some MR0 newbie who doesn't even know which end of the gun is supposed to be pointed at the enemy.

Ok, show me a video where an MR0 gets attacked by the hit squad.

[Chappie]

5 hours ago, Aramil999 said:

Finaly someone GETs it! But Warframe was vegan restaurant in 2011 now it is normal restaurant with very VERY disguesting one meat meal... it is not purely PvE, vegan game. Solar Rails, Conclave events? Now Stalker Mode? 

No..its not a normal restraunt.  What it did was tried to add meat to a few vegan dishes and very few liked it.  It keeps them around because occasional customer come in and want them..but far for why people show up.   You haven't done anything to convince anybody...on the contrary...you have hardened the convictions against you.   Pretty sad when you played yourself...but knowing most people aren't that dumb...you are trolling.  

Edited April 24, 2019 by Chappie1975