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Did the Simulor get the ability to form a Gravity Well removed?


Darena_Bryant
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I noticed a huge number of people demanding that the Simulor have it's graphical effects removed for the Gravity Well ability it had. The end result though, seems to be that it no longer has the ability to do that at all, which basically changes it's design from a weapon that can cause large AoE damage effects to a hover bomb launcher with bombs that need to be manually exploded. This essentially ruins the weapon.

It's been about 10 days since I posted a thread about this and no replies. Not even a response from other players who might know something.

I tried using the Simulor again, and it still has no gravity well effect. While searching for threads about the topic, I noticed a lot of people straight out demanding the Simulor's effects be removed. Not 'adjusted for more visibility'. Not 'changed to something less vision obscuring'. Removed. I would like to offer the thought that these people weren't asking for the Simulor to be gimped by removing the ABILITY, but were asking for the VISIBLE EFFECTS to be changed to make it easier to function when some idiot with a Mirage was using one and spamming it all over the place.

I thought this weapon was kinda weird, but I grew to like how it could be used to close off avenues of approach temporarily. Using it just enough to block stairs or a ramp or a hallway made the gun much more useful than I had thought when I first got it. And now that ability that I thought made it useful has been removed, just as I start thinking it could be useful. I almost want to laugh.

My suggestion would be to restore the ABILITY to cause gravity wells, but make the VISUAL EFFECTS a lot less 'visible'. One idea is to make the effect look like those static electricity domes you see in novelty stores; a core of energy, then lightning tendrils reaching out to an outer dome of more energy. Not too complex or dense, and not too bright, but enough to let people know it's there. This way, even if some idiot is spamming it all over, it won't completely blind other players.

I was actually enjoying using the Simulor, and was using it in a sensible way that no one complained about instead of covering the entire area in Gravity Well effects and mocking people for not knowing what was going on. I feel completely destroying a good mechanic because of the people who were misusing the weapon is the absolute wrong way to go about it. Please don't ruin something good because a few idiots were misusing it and made other people mad. A few changes can render this weapon functional and yet not a complete annoyance, rather than gutting it's core mechanic.

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20 minutes ago, Darena_Bryant said:

A few changes can render this weapon functional and yet not a complete annoyance, rather than gutting it's core mechanic.

Core mechanic? It sucks in nearby loot (which means absolutely nothing if you're using Vacuum), and it disposes of enemy corpses (which is a downside for Nekros and an upside for precisely nobody else).

I mean, the gravity well looked cool and all, but that was about all it did. I'd love to see it return (about as much as I'd like to see the GPU-frying particles turned down), but I'd hardly call it the core mechanic of the weapon.

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2 minutes ago, SortaRandom said:

Core mechanic? It sucks in nearby loot (which means absolutely nothing if you're using Vacuum), and it disposes of enemy corpses (which is a downside for Nekros and an upside for precisely nobody else).

I mean, the gravity well looked cool and all, but that was about all it did. I'd love to see it return (about as much as I'd like to see the GPU-frying particles turned down), but I'd hardly call it the core mechanic of the weapon.

...that was what it did. It created damaging gravity wells that did AoE damage. I say it's a core mechanic because this ability is even listed in it's basic stats. Combining the orbs you shot multiplied the damage of the resulting Gravity Well. Up to four orbs could be combined in this way. Without that, it's as I said... a hover bomb launcher with manually detonated bombs that as far as I've seen, only do electric damage. With the Gravity Well itself, you could mod it to do Corrosive or other elemental types, which further increased its usefulness.

The ability to suck in resources *was* a secondary effect of the gravity... it's gravity, so it pulls things in. And as far as I had seen, it doesn't destroy bodies, just pulls them in. I literally didn't have enough time to observe before the ability was removed; only enough to come up with a strategy for it's use.

So yes, I think the ability to combine orbs into a Gravity Well was a core mechanic of how the weapon worked and was used. In it's current state, the orbs don't even combine, much less create a Gravity Well.

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21 minutes ago, Darena_Bryant said:

...that was what it did. It created damaging gravity wells that did AoE damage. I say it's a core mechanic because this ability is even listed in it's basic stats. Combining the orbs you shot multiplied the damage of the resulting Gravity Well. Up to four orbs could be combined in this way. Without that, it's as I said... a hover bomb launcher with manually detonated bombs that as far as I've seen, only do electric damage. With the Gravity Well itself, you could mod it to do Corrosive or other elemental types, which further increased its usefulness.

The ability to suck in resources *was* a secondary effect of the gravity... it's gravity, so it pulls things in. And as far as I had seen, it doesn't destroy bodies, just pulls them in. I literally didn't have enough time to observe before the ability was removed; only enough to come up with a strategy for it's use.

So yes, I think the ability to combine orbs into a Gravity Well was a core mechanic of how the weapon worked and was used. In it's current state, the orbs don't even combine, much less create a Gravity Well.

Oh, I'd actually forgotten about the DoT effect, my bad. But, orbs merging never increased the DoT's damage at all (only the damage of "merging" instances, and the damage of the final explosion), and the DoT's damage has never really been impressive to begin with (on top of being unable to crit or proc Status). So despite happening all the time, it's always kinda been, uh... a bit lower on the "things the Synoid Simulor is known for" list.

Also:
- Detonations have base Electric damage and have a forced Electric proc, but they can combine elements like any other weapon. The Electric proc happens on top of whatever elemental combo you have (i.e. you can proc Corrosive and Electric at the same time with one explosion).
- Orbs should still merge. The damage has been gutted into nothingness (with the detonation damage being slightly increased to make up for it), but merging still happens.
It's just that orbs with 4 or more stacks are prone to not moving, so a 4-stack will not be pulled toward another 4-stack. They will still draw smaller stacks towards them, though (which is actually a huge problem, since their detonation damage isn't increased beyond 4 stacks-- meaning that if an orb gets absorbed into a 4-stack, it's effectively wasted).
- 4-stacks will still do DoT. Unless something was changed/broken within the past several weeks, I don't recall this functionality ever disappearing in the first place.

 

Disclaimer: The last time I used this weapon was a couple months ago (right after it was changed to be automatic). If merging/DoT/etc is indeed broken and it wasn't mentioned in any patch notes, then it's probably just a bug.

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34 minutes ago, SortaRandom said:

Oh, I'd actually forgotten about the DoT effect, my bad. But, orbs merging never increased the DoT's damage at all (only the damage of "merging" instances, and the damage of the final explosion), and the DoT's damage has never really been impressive to begin with (on top of being unable to crit or proc Status). So despite happening all the time, it's always kinda been, uh... a bit lower on the "things the Synoid Simulor is known for" list.

Also:
- Detonations have base Electric damage and have a forced Electric proc, but they can combine elements like any other weapon. The Electric proc happens on top of whatever elemental combo you have (i.e. you can proc Corrosive and Electric at the same time with one explosion).
- Orbs should still merge. The damage has been gutted into nothingness (with the detonation damage being slightly increased to make up for it), but merging still happens.
It's just that orbs with 4 or more stacks are prone to not moving, so a 4-stack will not be pulled toward another 4-stack. They will still draw smaller stacks towards them, though (which is actually a huge problem, since their detonation damage isn't increased beyond 4 stacks-- meaning that if an orb gets absorbed into a 4-stack, it's effectively wasted).
- 4-stacks will still do DoT. Unless something was changed/broken within the past several weeks, I don't recall this functionality ever disappearing in the first place.

 

Disclaimer: The last time I used this weapon was a couple months ago (right after it was changed to be automatic). If merging/DoT/etc is indeed broken and it wasn't mentioned in any patch notes, then it's probably just a bug.

Well this in part is what I'm trying to find out. At first, everything you say here was indeed happening. But recently NONE of this happens. No merging orbs, no AoE, no combined elemental effects on detonation... nothing. It's hobbled the weapon badly for me, and made it so I can't find any real use for it other than spamming the orbs, then detonating them. This is a fairly recent thing for me (couple of weeks, maybe?) so it's probably something that's happened after your last time using it.

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5 hours ago, Darena_Bryant said:

Well this in part is what I'm trying to find out. At first, everything you say here was indeed happening. But recently NONE of this happens. No merging orbs, no AoE, no combined elemental effects on detonation... nothing. It's hobbled the weapon badly for me, and made it so I can't find any real use for it other than spamming the orbs, then detonating them. This is a fairly recent thing for me (couple of weeks, maybe?) so it's probably something that's happened after your last time using it.

Ah, that makes sense. Sounds like a bug to me 😞

This is the most recent Simulor change that i found after a quick search, so maybe this has something to do with it? I don't recall multishot ever "not working" on the simulor (it's always increased the stack count of the orb that was fired, as I assume was intended). The biggest issue that the simulor had with multishot was its abysmal max-stack count. (That, and stacked orbs dealing a single tick of damage instead of ticking multiple times like literally any other gun.)

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11 hours ago, SortaRandom said:

Ah, that makes sense. Sounds like a bug to me 😞

This is the most recent Simulor change that i found after a quick search, so maybe this has something to do with it? I don't recall multishot ever "not working" on the simulor (it's always increased the stack count of the orb that was fired, as I assume was intended). The biggest issue that the simulor had with multishot was its abysmal max-stack count. (That, and stacked orbs dealing a single tick of damage instead of ticking multiple times like literally any other gun.)

I'd reply to that if I could, but I can't so... hopefully this thread gets noticed. No one ever replied to the first one.

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They removed Simulor from Simulor. It's not remotely the same weapon.

...and yea they turned it into a minelayer essentially which are fundamentally bad in Warframe. All the talk of go fast anime ninja and they made a stand still and stack weapon. It's all very stupid. You prolly won't get much replies cuz few people use it now. DE made sure of that.

Fun fact. Simulor was bugged the entire time of it's release. The Orb pulse never stacked in the original version. So no surprise if it's still bugging out.

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  • 2 weeks later...
On 2019-04-16 at 5:23 PM, Xzorn said:

All the talk of go fast anime ninja and they made a stand still and stack weapon.

Yeah, but I think there's a slight misunderstanding here.

Warframe was never a 'go fast' game. People just like to bumrush.

There's a LOT of instances where a weapon like the Simulor is useful. Defense, Mobile Defense, Survival... I could see even Arbitrations benefiting from it, if it could be built right. It was very useful for locking down spawn corridors, even if it didn't kill (and the way I had it working it DID kill, quite well). If all the enemies are standing there convulsing from whatever damage type the zone was doing, then they became both easy targets and no threat, their damage potential removed until you let the orb drop... which if you used it right, you never did.

Leveling in stages like Helene became much easier too, as I could post up near the pod and place damage zones in all the approaches depending on if the platform was up or down, and nothing could get close... not that they wouldn't try and die anyway.

I'm just sad they seem to have ruined it, and that no one has even spared a short comment to say what's been done, or even acknowledged my concern.

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