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[DE]Marcus

Nightwave Changes: Wolf Spawns & Feedback

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I'll take increased spawn.. That said , could you also increase the % chances of him dropping the operator mask from 2% to maybe 10% or something... Seems kinda unfair to add a new item to his drop table less than a month before the end of the event and that requires defeating the wolf at least 50 times on average to get it... Especially since most of your hardcore fans have already gotten to LVL 30 Nightwave and have gotten their hammer built.... So now we're stuck spending the next four weeks farming a 2% drop rate item.

Edited by (PS4)Stealth_Cobra
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Thats the beauty of it, you literally can stop farming him because now that your rank 30 theres no point in continuing doing Nightwave, no point to login now, least for me, I'm not gonna sit on my hands for 3 weeks, I heard divison 2 is fun. stephen colbert finger guns GIF

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11 minutes ago, Knight_Ex said:

Thats the beauty of it, you literally can stop farming him because now that your rank 30 theres no point in continuing doing Nightwave, no point to login now, least for me, I'm not gonna sit on my hands for 3 weeks, I heard divison 2 is fun.

That's a thing i heard several twitch streamers (and warframe partners) say lately: the biggest reward for finishing nightwave is that you don't have to do it anymore.

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4 minutes ago, TheFBD said:

That's a thing i heard several twitch streamers (and warframe partners) say lately: the biggest reward for finishing nightwave is that you don't have to do it anymore.

Makes you wonder huh? think about it hockey GIF by San Jose Sharks

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Pffft! Overall sucky game mechanic, overall sucky miniboss with sucky rewards. Yeah, I'm excited of the suckiness.

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Rank 35. I am so disappointed there's nothing else for me to do or look forward to in Nightwave beyond a 6% spawn rate that's also fighting over Stalker and syndicate spawns and then the RNG for the weapon parts. I thought the whole point of the Nightwave system over alerts was to give you a set progress path you can manage on your own, but no; the final piece of the puzzle (Wolf hammer) is buried in 2 layers of RNG.

So much for a clear progress path.

I'll stop completing Nightwave challenges. It's pointless at this stage if it won't lead to a reliable fight with the Wolf.

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I know the wolf spawn was increased but why did Shadow Stalker come after me back to back twice in the same day if his spawn is so low. To be honest both Stalker and The Kill Squads for syndicates feel like they got spawn buffs lol

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Make the rewards worth it.

For a sponge of an enemy that takes forever to kill unless you have specifically prepped against him ending up with a common mod is a slap in the face. Right now whenever he comes around I can feel my eyes rolling into the back of my head because the fight more than likely wont be worth the time.

Make him drop tons of resources, credits, and endo at lower levels.

Endo, kuva, ayatan stars (cyan and amber), a unique arcane, a unique ephemera at higher levels.

 

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Any news on the absurd levels of bullet sponge that the Wolf has?  40 minutes to kill a field boss is a little ridiculous.

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2 hours ago, Knight_Ex said:

Im more annoyed that we have to deal with 3 more weeks of this -.-, seriously I was looking forward to this ended next week and DE realizing that the alert system was better and to stop trying to copy fortnite.

Agreed... If it only ended, maybe they can fix things for next season if they don't... Unninstall is probably the option, i'm not going to go through another season like this.

The only thing good about Nightwave is the concept of the Nightwave... The way they implemented was flawed to the bone, the only marginally good thing is the reward track part of it, which they could slap in just as a daily login system or something like that...
All the rest is flawed, challenges have so many obviously written on the knee moments that it's not even fun... There's a ton of challenges that make no sense, like the Forma ones, the Gild ones, the 60 consecutive minute ones. The standing inconsistencies, etc. And they've been TESTING THAT, they have all the challenges pop in on their test servers, and no one for a moment thought "hang on, are we asking them to spend 3 forma to gain 3/10 of 3 forma? That doesn't seem right..."

The Wolf and his reward table is just stupid... Spawning stuff like the Wolf shouldn't be RNG, never, it should be Capture X members of the pack, and you get marked by the wolf, which means he'll pop in on one of your next missions. That'd be the most elegant solution, but noo... RNG, because it's easier to implement...

The "Prestige" part of the reward track is just laughable... I've spent like 100 of the wolf creds i got, and all, but 15 of it was on creds, i bought Nitain, because i "only" had 7 left, and although i don't have anything left to build that needs Nitain, might as well stock up... All the other creds i've still not spent.
So basically Prestige is useless to me, and the people that could actually gain anything from the prestige part, won't, because they're the ones less likely to get to the prestige part. Well, now that they pretty much added a whole month to the "season" they might, but that just leaves me, and other people like me with a whole month of squat to do. At least back when Alerts existed, i could be doing the Kubrow egg ones, or the Void traces and such, cause those things are more handy to me than Nitain...

And finally, the utter fail that is that the only thing that connects this with Alerts is the Wolf creds store... Basically they created content that is totally unrelated to Alerts, it does not fill the same niches that Alerts did, but it shares the reward pool, and so it's a valid replacement in their eyes, it makes no sense!!
It's like saying a coffin is a replacement for a bed (well, after you're dead it kinda is though, but that's not the point) because you can lie down in both!!

And of course, not only does the Wolf creds not replace the social and guidance aspects of Alerts, but it's also a poor replacement as a means of obtaining the items from that reward pool, because it severely limits the options, and delays the rewards by weeks!!
While with Alerts people could get a reactor or a catalyst from Alerts, plus a couple helmets, and a few Nitain in a week. Now, you'll have to choose one of two of those rewards per week. And some people actually think that just because you can see them there all the time, they're more available... Well, then again, people believe that the earth is flat and vaccines cause autism... So yeah...

Nightwave was a comedy of errors, that is slowly turning into a tragedy... And honestly, i'm kind of done with Warframe largely because of it... Most of my friends stopped playing largely because of Nightwave, and now that i've actually reached rank 30, i'm also out of "things to do"... My friends aren't playing because of Nightwave, so the stuff i did with them, gone, and i also don't have the Nightwave stuff... Sure i could go waste 200h trying to get the Wolf mask, or the hammer, or even Condition Overload, but since, i'm more likely to end up empty handed than not, i'm better off not even playing. There's more games out there... Might do another run of Borderlands 1, 2 and pre-sequel to prepare for Borderlands 3.

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I was at rank 26 before the Wolf spawned for me, and haven't seen him since. So yay for the increase in spawn rate.

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Posted (edited)
Quote

Even with 6%, that is still a .12% chance at a mask. That's 3835 missions just for statistical probability to reach 99%, 577 runs to be 50%. But wait, it gets better. If we assume you do a given mission for 280 seconds and maximize each spawn chance perfectly, you would spend approximately 1,073,800 seconds for a 99% chance (298 hours and 16 minutes), and 161,560 seconds for a 50% chance (44 hours and 52 minutes) respectively in normal missions.

That's the whole point of RNG...It's a huge factor. You can take any item (from other games) and do the math for 99% chance and you will find (way) worse number. 

Quote

I was looking at more cosmetic drops, and this gets even spicier! Let's take a look at the Blazing Step Ephemera that has a 1.01% chance to drop every 22 minutes at rotation C of Elite Sanctuary Onslaught. I'm going to spare the words: This is

 ~171 hours of Elite Sanctuary Onslaught for a 99% chance at Blazing Step Ephemera. If you notice, that time is around 57% of the time it will take to likely net you a Saturn Six Mask from normal missions.

Blazing Step Ephemera Blueprint - 1.01% Rotation C only (AABC is the rotation) and takes ~22 minutes minimum.

227 runs to have a 90% chance to get the item at least once ~ 4994 minutes = 83.2 hours of ESO 

454 runs to have a 99% chance to get the item at least once ~ 9988 minutes = 166.4 hours of ESO

Succeeding at least once
9.65% for 10 runs
18.37% for 20 runs
26.25% for 30 runs

Say you do 3 runs (wave 8 AABC) every day. It'll take roughly ~10 weeks to Blazing Step Ephemera (at 90%) / 21 weeks for 99%. Now that's just 3 runs per day. 6 runs is 5 weeks to 10 weeks. 9 runs is 3 weeks to 5 weeks. 12 runs is 1.5 weeks to 2.5 weeks. 15 runs per day result in 15 days to get Blazing Step Ephemera at 90% to 30 days at 99%. 

For something that is going to stay permanently, the numbers are absolutely fine. These are the things make people do ESO and even if you do casual ever day run, you will eventually get it. Only people who want to rush and want to get everything right now have a hard time. 

__

As for Wolf spawn, he is now 6% which makes him appear at least once (90% chance) every 37 runs compared to 56 runs previously. At 99% it's 74 runs compared to 113 runs previously. 

It's a significant improvement. 

Edited by IIAxiosII
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1 hour ago, ReaverKane said:

Agreed... If it only ended, maybe they can fix things for next season if they don't... Unninstall is probably the option, i'm not going to go through another season like this.

The only thing good about Nightwave is the concept of the Nightwave... The way they implemented was flawed to the bone, the only marginally good thing is the reward track part of it, which they could slap in just as a daily login system or something like that...
All the rest is flawed, challenges have so many obviously written on the knee moments that it's not even fun... There's a ton of challenges that make no sense, like the Forma ones, the Gild ones, the 60 consecutive minute ones. The standing inconsistencies, etc. And they've been TESTING THAT, they have all the challenges pop in on their test servers, and no one for a moment thought "hang on, are we asking them to spend 3 forma to gain 3/10 of 3 forma? That doesn't seem right..."

The Wolf and his reward table is just stupid... Spawning stuff like the Wolf shouldn't be RNG, never, it should be Capture X members of the pack, and you get marked by the wolf, which means he'll pop in on one of your next missions. That'd be the most elegant solution, but noo... RNG, because it's easier to implement...

The "Prestige" part of the reward track is just laughable... I've spent like 100 of the wolf creds i got, and all, but 15 of it was on creds, i bought Nitain, because i "only" had 7 left, and although i don't have anything left to build that needs Nitain, might as well stock up... All the other creds i've still not spent.
So basically Prestige is useless to me, and the people that could actually gain anything from the prestige part, won't, because they're the ones less likely to get to the prestige part. Well, now that they pretty much added a whole month to the "season" they might, but that just leaves me, and other people like me with a whole month of squat to do. At least back when Alerts existed, i could be doing the Kubrow egg ones, or the Void traces and such, cause those things are more handy to me than Nitain...

And finally, the utter fail that is that the only thing that connects this with Alerts is the Wolf creds store... Basically they created content that is totally unrelated to Alerts, it does not fill the same niches that Alerts did, but it shares the reward pool, and so it's a valid replacement in their eyes, it makes no sense!!
It's like saying a coffin is a replacement for a bed (well, after you're dead it kinda is though, but that's not the point) because you can lie down in both!!

And of course, not only does the Wolf creds not replace the social and guidance aspects of Alerts, but it's also a poor replacement as a means of obtaining the items from that reward pool, because it severely limits the options, and delays the rewards by weeks!!
While with Alerts people could get a reactor or a catalyst from Alerts, plus a couple helmets, and a few Nitain in a week. Now, you'll have to choose one of two of those rewards per week. And some people actually think that just because you can see them there all the time, they're more available... Well, then again, people believe that the earth is flat and vaccines cause autism... So yeah...

Nightwave was a comedy of errors, that is slowly turning into a tragedy... And honestly, i'm kind of done with Warframe largely because of it... Most of my friends stopped playing largely because of Nightwave, and now that i've actually reached rank 30, i'm also out of "things to do"... My friends aren't playing because of Nightwave, so the stuff i did with them, gone, and i also don't have the Nightwave stuff... Sure i could go waste 200h trying to get the Wolf mask, or the hammer, or even Condition Overload, but since, i'm more likely to end up empty handed than not, i'm better off not even playing. There's more games out there... Might do another run of Borderlands 1, 2 and pre-sequel to prepare for Borderlands 3.

Alerts were generally terrible.  You could play for a year without ever seeing a corrosive projection alert for example or that custom helmet for khora for example.  Nitain was the biggest pain in the ass resource to farm in the game and you need over a hundred of it to build everything requiring it in game without counting research.  You want a kubrow egg so bad go run earth captures and blow up kubrow dens, they even changed it so you can have as many eggs as you want in your inventory.  Void traces can be obtained in fissure missions, not sure why you'd prefer an alert where you get traces but no prime part unless you're starved for relics at which point you can run without relic but most people who put any amount of effort into this game have an overabundance of relics that they can't possibly run out of.  

Only problem with this system is prestige mode granting just wolf creds.  Should be more rewards, but I'm not going to complain when umbra forma got introduced this way and is better then anything you could get in old alerts.  They even gave out an arcane energize, also better then anything in the old alerts.  Most alert missions were garbage dark sector missions/get credits and nothing else, which if you need creds run index, run 5 waves/minutes then extract from akkad or some survival and get over 20,000 of them.  Or run sortie every day and you're likely set on credits unless you want to get everything maxed out prime mod wise as fast as possible.  

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Posted (edited)
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99% chance (298 hours and 16 minutes), and 161,560 seconds for a 50% chance (44 hours and 52 minutes) respectively in normal missions.

While at it, Nightwave is active for roughly 12 weeks which is 2016 hours ~ 120960 minutes.
(yes, it was 4% before and now 6% which results in 0.08 compared to 0.12)

0.12 each run which takes yes 3835 runs for 99% / 1918 runs for 90% chance. 

298 hours from 2016 hours doesn't seem super huge (or might) now for 99% while 44 hours (for 50% chance) out of 2016 hours feels...normal. That's like 2.4% of your time requirement during the course of Nightwave to get a 50% chance.

24 hours a day. Assuming you play at least an hour or two of Warframe every day for 12 weeks, that's 14 hours a week / 168 hours total. 

Assume you do a given mission for 280 seconds and maximize each spawn chance perfectly, for 90% chance you are looking at 537,040 seconds which is 149 hours and that falls under your daily 2-hour playtime quota and still have 19 hours to spare. 

For 50% it's 161520 seconds which is ~45 hours like you mentioned. 45 hours out of 168 hours at 2 hours a day. Even if you spend 1 hour per day, 7 hours weekly, you are looking at 84 hours of playtime out of 2016 hours for 50% chance to get it and you only need 45 of it. Barely an hour/day for 50% chance. 

Plus, RNG factor. You can spend 298 hours and 16 minutes and still not get it while someone who got within an hour. You cannot dissect numbers in a grinding/looter game and expect a small number. If that was the case, the game wouldn't be the same. The exclusivity/rarity wouldn't have any value. 

🤷‍♂️

Edited by IIAxiosII

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I think there can be a way for Wolf to be the hunter while making the grind less frustrating for players. Maybe have players accumulate "marks" as they capture Saturn Six escapees. Having more marks makes Wolf more likely to hunt you down to take revenge on you for capturing his pack. That will give the player at least some agency as to when Wolf will spawn while still making Wolf the hunter.

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10 hours ago, [DE]Marcus said:

Note that the end of Nightwave Series I does not mean the end of the Wolf of Saturn Six appearances - he'll still be around!

Cheers for this info. I was feeling pretty deflated only having seen him less than a handful of times and getting 1 drop, good to know I still have a chance to get his weapon once the series is over. :thumbup:

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6 hours ago, Caramello said:

Excuse me but due some datamining we know that his spawn rate was already 4%...

May I ask when this datamining occurred?

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5 hours ago, TheFBD said:

That's a thing i heard several twitch streamers (and warframe partners) say lately: the biggest reward for finishing nightwave is that you don't have to do it anymore.

This made me sad to read and then I realized.. this is exactly how I felt when I reached 30. That's not a good thing indeed. 😩

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10 hours ago, MagPrime said:

or made it so the Wolf hunted down people who finished a lot more often that would be incentive to keep trying.

rather than just a straight up increase in probability that's the sort of things i was hoping for - another separate increase based on your Nightwave Rank on top of progressively going higher as the Season ticks on.
(since stuff like that is something that can actually feel cool)

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3 minutes ago, taiiat said:

rather than just a straight up increase in probability that's the sort of things i was hoping for - another separate increase based on your Nightwave Rank on top of progressively going higher as the Season ticks on.
(since stuff like that is something that can actually feel cool)

I'd love a mechanic that gives the players more control.  Increasing your "prestige" tiers to progressively increase your spawn chances with Wolf would be flat out amazing.

 

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1 hour ago, MagPrime said:

I'd love a mechanic that gives the players more control.  Increasing your "prestige" tiers to progressively increase your spawn chances with Wolf would be flat out amazing.

i mean, why not the first 30 Ranks too - can have both make an impact, even further on top of the increase over time in the Season.
(and more, more stacking increases based on Players doing something rather than just more Timers we stand around waiting for, looking like idiots just waiting for paint to dry)

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11 hours ago, Zavenosk said:

I've reached Nightwave rank 30 and haven't encountered the wolf once.  I'm glad you're raising his appearance rates, hope to be able to obtain his unique items before he is gone.

Did you even read the post? Lol

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10 hours ago, [DE]Marcus said:

There is a 4% or 6% chance the Wolf will spawn in your mission (depending on mission level). This is outside of the percentage for any Stalker, Zanuka, or Syndicate spawn. It is not possible for multiple assassins to spawn within the same mission (at least, it's not intentional!)

Could you please clarify what you mean by "outside of the percentage" for the other invasions? The phrasing makes it sound as if The Wolf can appear in the same mission as those other targets which makes the sentence after a bit confusing.

Does each invasion have an individual % chance to occur and then the first of the bunch to roll positive shows up? Is there a roll order players should be aware of to more effectively farm for these very rare items?

In that case it would technically be easier to "farm" The Wolf by losing all assassin marks and not ranking any syndicates (or somehow staying out of aggro territory). I understand if the specifics can't be shared in order to maintain a level of mystery and rarity (and to avoid abuse). I just have a habit of pursuing information on stuff like this :V

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