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[DE]Marcus

Nightwave Changes: Wolf Spawns & Feedback

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6 hours ago, Sabremouse said:

Or you carry your wolf loadout at all times as I've been doing expecting an increasing spawn rate and he NEVER shows up! 😕

Eh, it kinda sucks when I have to lug my Catchmoon (or Rubico Prime) everywhere and need to use a Sarpa to boot. I normally run CP so I can't be half assed if I forget the Sarpa. The problem is i really dislike the Catchmoon (and don't fancy the Rubico for every mission). Yet the Wolf spawn chance makes it so that I have to run prepared, rather than forgo the Catchmoon (or Rubico) so I can use the stuff I like more.

Yeah, before you go "but the Catchmoon is OP for all game types", yes, I have a relatively good Riven for it and it does kill everything fast enough but I don't like these kind of guns. Thing is, making the wolf a random spawn that requires a very specific loadout to defeat kind of locks you into the loadout, which is annoying because you may not like the loadout mechanically despite how effective it is.

Sure, I can of course play Volt every mission and carry electric shield around but ... why?

 

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Quick question about the announcement here. It appears as if there's a 4-6% chance for any given mission for the wolf to appear. That's unlike hunters like the Stalker or Zanuka, where each marked player increases the odds.

So is it the case that if you play solo the odds of Wolf appearance would be the same as if you were in a group of up to four people? Because right now, a lot of people are running 5 waves of Hydron, hoping for the Wolf to run in, and then leaving those who want to level up their stuff by going beyond five.

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On 2019-04-17 at 8:28 AM, ReaverKane said:

That's bullS#&$ and you know it! I got all alert mods in the first 3 months of playing, and by the time Nightwave hit, having played for a total of less than a year, the only helmets i needed (and bought just to spend creds) were the really ugly ones i didn't want to use, like the Zephyr Tengu.

And Nitain STILL IS the biggest pain in the ass resource to get in the game, except instead of 1-4 per day you'll be able to buy 15 per week, and to do that you have to sacrifice getting everything else! (if you know maths you'll realize you get less now, even if you sacrifice other rewards)

What i said is, those are still useful for me, unlike anything else in the cred store, basically everything in the cred store has finite usability. You only need so much Nitain, you only need one helmet of each, you only need one mod of each, you only need vauban once, and that's for MR, you only need 1 Catalyst per weapon (and no one uses all weapons), and you only need one reactor per frame/pet/archwing. Basically i have 20+ reactors and catalysts in stock, i already have all the mods and helmets, i've maxed Vauban in 2016 (through alerts, in a week!!) when i first started playing.  It doesn't mean i don't know where to find them, or don't have a decent stock.
Also as for the void traces, the alerts rewarded 10 traces consistently, in a mission that could be done as fast as the fastest fissure mission, in which you can sometimes get less than 10 traces. So yeah, they were a nice thing to do when you have nothing else to do really.

What you did here, was in your haste to defend this poor iteration was consider if this was an upgrade, a downgrade or a sidegrade... In it's best days you can consider Nightwave a sidegrade of Alerts, but it's actually a downgrade... Speaking only in terms of rewards, not even the other aspects of Alerts, You have to sacrifice having some stuff to get other stuff, which you didn't need to do with Alerts, sure they were more random, and less available, but that could be easily fixed by making them less random, more available, and longer lasting.
What they did is put stuff on a shelf for everyone to see it at all times, and simple minded people will think that because they can see it, they can have it, but the truth is, you can't, because to have something you'll have to let go of having something else... And even worse, you can't even save up on creds for later, because in 3 weeks they'll be gone...

Your dislike towards Alerts, which is misguided, is blinding you to the fact that this is worse. Alerts didn't have Umbral Forma? Yeah, nothing had it! But it could have been just as easily been added to Gifts of the Lotus (which would make it much faster to obtain), or even random Alerts, which could have a 48h duration, they could even have added it to the Arbitration shop, give us a reason to do Arbitrations consistently! Either option would have been better than having it after a month of Nightwave, and then having to wait another 2 months to get the next one... YAY 3 months per Umbral Forma!! Only takes as long as a human baby to be born to get one slot per Umbral mod on a Warframe!!

Arcane Energize, is pretty much the same, you got the base tier form of it, you'll still need to get the other 9 arcanes to get it going as you want it, that means you'll still need to run Tridolons to finish it...

Yeah Alerts had flaws, but Nightwave has MORE flaws, while at the same time it does a bad job of introducing repeatable content to the game, which is basically what Alerts were, an incentive to repeat content.
Basically with Alerts, i would log in when i saw an alert that i found useful, like a Nitain, or a Kubrow Egg, Tellurium or even Argon. Now with Nightwaves, after rank 30, i have no reason to login, and that's the whole problem with this, Nightwaves didn't fill that niche that Alerts had, which was giving people a reason to log in. After Rank 30, and for a lot of people, even before Rank 30, that reason doesn't exist, and you're done.
 

That's the whole thing, you can be done with Nightwaves, and not have any reasons to play, while Alerts were consistently a reason to do something in the game, which would then probably chain into another, and that's what they need, stuff that gives players reasons to play the game, Nightwave, doesn't, it does the opposite.

Incredible.  Everything you just said, was wrong.  10 traces guaranteed < any prime part, even a garbage 15 ducat item like burston bp.  You're already guaranteed 6 traces at minimum in a fissure.  Add in a resource booster and you're always getting 12 at minimum.  Alerts are not a reason to play this game at all, I never logged into warframe specifically to see what alerts were up and run them for the credits and nothing else they offered almost always they were filler missions that were like missions you did on the star chart simply to unlock the next planet.  

You mean 0-4 nitain per day by the way.  People have lives, they go to school, work, etc. they can't login at 12pm to grab a nitain off an alert necessarily.  You might get 1-2 per day in the old system if you're lucky per day, certainly not 3-4 unless you just have absolutely no life and can login every time a nitain pops up on alert.  You get 1 wolf cred reward you can buy 15 nitain.  That's 7 and a half days worth if you get 2 per day.  All you have to do for that wolf cred is some challenges that can be completed in any mission unless it's a specific challenge like complete 3 sabotage missions.  The challenges are easy too for the most part to complete in terms of weeklies.  

1 umbra forma every 3 months > no umbra forma at all.  Yeah, it could be introduced other ways.  Take it up with DE, who will either reply that they're never giving it away any other way, they'll do something soonTM, or won't respond at all.  

Yeah, I get you need 10 energizes for a set for maximum power.  Arcane energize is the most powerful thing in this game though, even a rank zero is decent and a rank 2 will actively help you.  Or you can sell it for platinum at the very least, since people care about their plat count.  

Reactors/catalysts are always going to be either you have too many or too few.  The best part about them though is that as long as the game continues to update you'll have a need for them as more weapons/frames are released.  Better still is you can reasonably justify using multiple potatoes on one specific weapon to have different polarities on it so one build can go viral with primed cryo rounds and malignant force while the other is going for two 90 elementals for radiation for eidolon hunts or what have you.  Same can be said of frames.  

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On 2019-04-16 at 3:32 PM, arm4geddon-117 said:

Nice to hear about that but you gotta also understand that alot of people have started this week with a rank 30 already done and we have 4 weeks of packs of 15 wolf creds ?

There should be a middle ground there with a change about the rewards after 30 because let's be honest, the majority who have achieved all rewards are most likely stockpiled of everything else we could purchase with those creds by now...

Either end the season 2 weeks earlier but i know probably there'll be someone at the last week half way through the ranks or add some more perks to the rewards after 30

It could be Kuva for a start...

Buying Kuva would be very nice if it's worth it.

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Just wanted to give some constructive feedback on the Wolf.

On 2019-04-17 at 5:23 AM, [DE]Marcus said:

some feedback has come in about the Wolf of Saturn Six as a miniboss

Currently when the wolf spawns it can be a long haul, especially when levelling or farming. In no way am I going to complain that it shouldn't happen at those times, but I will recommend that it needs to be more engaging so it's not disappointing when it occurs. The wolf is the hunter, if we were in his shoes we'd attack at the enemies weakest, I like the randomness. Only time I'd ask to add to the exclusion list would be fissures, as when you plan to do an endless (fissure def, intercept, survival and such) it drags out to the point that everyone quits right after.

Ideas for more engagement:

  • Mechanical interplay between fugitives and the wolf:
    • Currently they are indestructible while he is active. Some way to counter this during the fight could make it interesting. For example how Lech Kril needs to have his backpack device disabled to beat him.
    • If they were killable mid fight, you could add an aggression system where he'll attack the person who got the kill shot
    • Maybe when one dies he gets stronger but more vulnerable for a duration.
  • Incentivise use of operator form:
    • Similar to normal sentient, especially now that he is in an amalgam form.
    • He could have abilities or buffs that get reset or turned off with tenno powers.
    • Void damage could give him a debuff that stacks to a threshold and needs to be replenished for optimal combat efficiency.
  • The fight needs to feel worth the effort:
    • This is NOT "give me more stuff" or "make the better loot drop more".
    • You've probably been told endlessly "make beating him give nightwave affinity points", I do support that idea.
    • Perhaps it needs to be an incentive to continue the current mission.
      • Beating him gives you a unique buff to operator or warframe for the rest of the mission.
      • Beating him could temporarily (10min) give a booster of some sort.
  • Difficulty that doesn't just mean fight length:
    • Certainly some times the best way to simulate enemy strength is to make them so tanky that it takes forever to beat them. The wolf is also worthy of a hard boss fight, he is not a trivial enemy. I will say, having Alad V beat him makes me doubt that point a little, cause the Wolf should destroy Alad.
    • Powering through the health and armour should still be an option, as that's the easiest thing to prepare for.
    • But if you're not prepared for a long fight, that either drastically extends a mission or potentially will force people to prematurely end a mission, there has to be a better way to drive him off.
  • Alternate lose condition:
    • Him running away when he kills you (or the whole party) feels lame, and begs the question of what he's even trying to achieve. The same thought comes up with every other random encounter, especially if the enemy is aware of the Tenno being safely hidden on their orbiter.
    • Tying back into sentient mechanics, similar to when sentients appear on a mobile defence on Lua, it temporarily changes or interrupts the current mission.
    • Perhaps he's not here for the tenno, he's after something else. You're have to stop him or let him get away to continue your mission.
    • You can now choose to fight or to avoid the conflict.

I didn't just want to rant as if I'm not having fun or if I don't appreciate the Wolf's encounter, it just has a habit of being a buzz kill, and I'd like everyone to enjoy it more.

Obviously these are just ideas, limited to my scope of knowledge. I don't pretend to know what you have in store for him, and for all I know there's mechanics I've overlooked and just stated irrelevant points.

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i dont know if anyone has posted this suggestion, there are 8 pages of replies, but just a though: after someone hits rank thirty with the nightwave rewards and prestiges(?) for lack of a better word, i feel like an option should open up in the rewards offerings to purchase a wolf spawn beacon for like 150 wolf creds. at that point, clearly youre a dedicated player, and have put in a ton of time. it would still take an exorbitant amount of effort to get the beacon, but it would gove players extra incentive to actually keep going with it. if what youre aiming for with this nightwave system is increased player attentiveness and gameplay time, that would certainly do it for a lot of us. just a thought.

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On 2019-04-17 at 2:29 AM, Caramello said:

Excuse me but due some datamining we know that his spawn rate was already 4%...

I refuse to believe that his spawn rate was above 1% at any point prior to this announcement. Hopefully this works as intended and he's some kind of farmable now. Wolf's design is an abomination of cascading game design failure, but a spawn rate higher than once a week would be a good step.

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Definitely seen him more, but can we please not have him spawn when we’re all on extract? Kinda forced to play solo and wait 5 minutes since it’s been happened 3 times now 😂

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On 2019-04-18 at 4:44 PM, Oreades said:

RNG encounters + Boss loadouts != Good 

Found the programmer XD

In all seriousness tho I completely agree.

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On 2019-04-17 at 1:08 PM, Tsukinoki said:

Quick Question:
Does the spawn rate work like other assassins?  As in the more people in the squad the higher the spawn rate?  Or is it just a static 4-6% regardless if you have 1 person in the squad or 4?

Well he's spawned on me 4 times over the last 2 days and always solo, so take from that what you will, and the accumulated rewards were 3 truely awful low lvl mods and 1 Wolf Sledge head 😞

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I'm calling BS on the wolf spawn rates, 10 hours a day actively searching for him to find him once.......  yet I know people who see him 3-4 times a day playing a few hours.  As far as I'm concerned the spawn rates favour players who play less and screw people who put the time into the game. IMO DE are knowingly doing this as those who play the game more are likely to buy plat and just buy the parts, coincidentally there's a plat sale on with mere weeks to get the Wolf parts.

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How about nightwave prestige tier giving you one random (3 days long?) alert with a guaranteed wolf spawn (or a beacon to summon him)? it'd fix the two biggest flaws of this whole event (wolf's abysmal spawn right and prestige tiers being worthless).

Hell, if people can organize themselves to group up and having everyone run their "wolf alert" this might even make his droptable feel less horrible (and adding a few wolf creds as a guaranteed drop).

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Posted (edited)

And I haven't even seen the wolf since these changes....

DE are you sure you put the right 'percentage' into the code and not made it so it's been reduced instead.

Edited by LSG501
edit to last bit to make sense lol
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Posted (edited)

As the wolf is killable if you're prepared, and can be unkillable otherwise, having him spawn randomly feels like the game is trolling. I've "encountered" him 4 times while soloing derelict with 4 void keys... NO WAY.
It always ended with one of his attack that 1HKO the operator and then 1HKO the frame (no time to do anything after transference ends ), and then he despawn.

Furthermore, there are no game mechanics between crappy fugitives and the wolf, which feels cheap.

I'd rather farm fugitives to make the wolf spawn or avoid fugitives and not have the wolf spawn. At the moment the Wolf only feels like an annoyance and not "event" or "additionnal content", you know like that kid who bully others while hidding from grown up ?

 

 

Edited by MonsterOfMyOwn
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Posted (edited)

Imagine how much more engaging it would be if Wolf worked like the Acolytes.   Where Nightwave gives subtle hints to where Wolf is, right down to a specific node.  Once the community finds him Nightwave gets more obvious to where he is and anyone can go there to find the wolf.

• Dissatisfyingly random, means you cannot play as you will, you have to always be prepared to fight the wolf.

- On top of that,  he doesn't appear in missions that a lot of people spend most their time in (Quests,  Open Worlds, ESO, ect)

• Ridiculously tanky requiring optimized builds.  If you're not that optimized it can take so long that he just decides to disappear when he has just a sliver of health left after you spent 10 minutes to what might feel like half an hour fighting him.   My weapons aren't that bad but they're useless against him.  I can only touch him using Gara's splinter storm, though he usually appears in the first 3 minutes or not at all,  so the splinterstorm isn't that effective yet.  Otherwise Titania use to be good until they gave him an obnoxious pull because who doesn't love getting their frame invalidated so yet again you're forced to play specific meta frames that aren't constantly invalidated.

•Deliberately frustrating and unrewarding, granting NO standing when it's obvious that he should,  and purposefully designed to often drop generic mods everyone has in abundance. 

 

Making him work like an acolyte with the hidden location solves the first two issues,  and lessens the third issue (People wouldn't care as much if he's unrewarding if we could fight him reliably).

Edited by Kingsmount
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4 hours ago, MonsterOfMyOwn said:

As the wolf is killable if you're prepared, and can be unkillable otherwise, having him spawn randomly feels like the game is trolling. I've "encountered" him 4 times while soloing derelict with 4 void keys... NO WAY.
It always ended with one of his attack that 1HKO the operator and then 1HKO the frame (no time to do anything after transference ends ), and then he despawn.

Very true. As much as i appreciate DE not going back to the old invulnerability phases crap, how can it be (lore-wise) that the wolf of saturn six is magnitudes stronger than G3 and zanuka? And even worse, he is definitely much harder to kill than shadow stalker! That does make no sense at all.

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On 2019-04-17 at 3:23 AM, [DE]Marcus said:

Hi all - some feedback has come in about the Wolf of Saturn Six as a miniboss. The Wolf of Saturn Six is the one that does the hunting. So when you're hunting for him... he doesn't always appear.… We’re getting the Wolf out to howl more as we head into the later weeks of Nightwave Series I. 

The Wolf's spawn rate will be increased across all four platforms to 4%, and for missions that are level 20+ it will be increased to 6%. One of the major exceptions is that he doesn't spawn in Open Worlds, so keep that in mind. Note that the end of Nightwave Series I does not mean the end of the Wolf of Saturn Six appearances - he'll still be around! 

We also have much-requested clarity for everyone: The earliest date we will end Nightwave Series I is May 15th

Cheers and happy hunting.. and remember... this isn't over yet and it is the Wolf who hunts you...!

EDIT: These changes are live as of posting! New spawn rates are already implemented across all four platforms

So the last week, from May 13 (Mon) to May 15 (Wed), there will still be a week's worth of missions, or nah? 

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Posted (edited)

OK, 3 encounter with Wolf in last week - 2 subsequent Fissure Rescue missions and one Nightmare - 2 failed - first with Rescue target and 2 low MR killed by Wolf and his trio faster than we can resurrect and second when I was solo and a full 1200+(What_Looted_Carrier_from_mobs) Ignis Wraith ammo stock don't shred even a 1/3 of his HP (1000+ base dmg on mobs and only 77 !!! on Wolf).  And second run-in with Wolf on Rescue Fissure (thankfully before we entered Prison area) dropped only some useless mod.

So relive my paranoia and say that DE don't scripted Wolf encounters to spawn only when you are most vulnerable and/or powerless?  

 

UPD And what about persistent NightWave standing bug? https://www.google.com/search?q=warframe+nightwave+standing+bug+site:forums.warframe.com&client=aff-maxthon-maxthon4&channel=t38&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiz-ZzDr9_hAhVFbVAKHaj7CiQQrQIoBDAAegQIBBAN&biw=1026&bih=648

Just as I was making main post my clanner lost 6000 standing on this bug

Location Fortuna

Finished challenges - daily 20 energy orb and weekly 100 Eximus

https://ibb.co/7yJXRNH - before relog 

https://ibb.co/vP4Q7jY - after relog

 

Edited by Gunner6011
UPD
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Still have yet to see the wolf at all. Seriously getting sick of trying to get him to spawn.

Yes, I went into hydron with all 0 , with no mods even a few times. Yes, I put forma into things. Yes, I hung out in the void. Yes , I did kuva missions. Yes, I played the game solo and under leveled. Yes, I leave after another assassin.

At the very least there needs to be a way to at least get marked by him like other assassins. 

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1 hour ago, (PS4)Kaleidos_Joker said:

Yes, I went into hydron with all 0 , with no mods even a few times. Yes, I put forma into things. Yes, I hung out in the void. Yes , I did kuva missions. Yes, I played the game solo and under leveled.

And all of this are useless things that don't increase his spawn chance

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Posted (edited)
On 2019-04-17 at 3:23 AM, [DE]Marcus said:

Hi all - some feedback has come in about the Wolf of Saturn Six as a miniboss. The Wolf of Saturn Six is the one that does the hunting. So when you're hunting for him... he doesn't always appear.… We’re getting the Wolf out to howl more as we head into the later weeks of Nightwave Series I. 

The Wolf's spawn rate will be increased across all four platforms to 4%, and for missions that are level 20+ it will be increased to 6%. One of the major exceptions is that he doesn't spawn in Open Worlds, so keep that in mind. Note that the end of Nightwave Series I does not mean the end of the Wolf of Saturn Six appearances - he'll still be around! 

We also have much-requested clarity for everyone: The earliest date we will end Nightwave Series I is May 15th

Cheers and happy hunting.. and remember... this isn't over yet and it is the Wolf who hunts you...!

EDIT: These changes are live as of posting! New spawn rates are already implemented across all four platforms

So the last week, from May 13 (Mon) to May 15 (Wed), will there still be a week's worth of missions? 

Edited by JunoMagnus

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Rng is still rng

in the entirety of nightwave even after the changes I have seen wolf a whole 2 times in total and Ive already prestiged nightwave

this is kinda dumb
I mean it takes away the whole lore aspect of nightwave coz again whats the point of telling stories about this BIG BAD WOLF OOOH HES GONNA GET YA!!!
if youre not gonna see him? and I know Im unlucky ashell I dont think Im gonna get the hammer parts in quite awhile 

I do think there should be a way to atleast increase your chances of meeting him more often
some way to piss him off or something?

just my 2 cents

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Just had the wolf spawn for the 3rd time ever - with a squad of people leveling on helene. Took us over 25mins to get him, just for him dropping a common mod. I understand why people quit the mission as soon as he spawns, and i will do the same in the future, because apparently the wolf is a coward and never spawns when you're fully geared up.

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Posted (edited)

A view minutes ago the Wolf appeared during an Relic capture and the bad thing was, right in that moment the last player jumps into extract the Wolf joins. I thought DE fixed/or tried to fixed that...? 

Oh and I forgot: yesterday he appeared on Hydron in the first 5 waves and likely I killed him with lv equipt after long minutes and what happens!?! The mission was stucked on the 5th wave and nothing ... DE you need to do more of your homework... 

Edited by .-KG-..-BornStoned-.

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