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[DE]Rebecca

Nintendo Switch & Console Tennogen: Bug and Resolution.

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25 minutes ago, (PS4)Cephalon_Hope said:

That doesnt not mean you should not be careful, Tennogen items always appear first thing in the market, if people checked and it wasn't there and still bought the item whiteout thinking there might be something wrong then its a lesson learned for them.

The platinum will be given back, people can just save it and get the items back once DE is ready to release them, there is no need for so much drama over it.

How do you expect us to know that something like this would happen and that we should be careful when DE themselves were not careful and were irresponsible about all this in the first place? Like I said I never check the Market for TennoGen stuff, I didn't go "oh wait, before I buy this TennoGen item directly from the Arsenal let me just check and make sure that it's also available in the Market". So don't give me this lesson learned bs and no need for so much drama? How about you tell that to your PS4 buddies instead who complain and whine and cause so much drama about TennoGen getting delayed or getting less TennoGen than before in every thread. Also, you guys would be outraged if this happened to you.

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A "bug" is typically an unintended engineering flaw in the software. A "loophole" is typically an unintended allowance in the letter of the law exploited to contradict the spirit of the law. This situation seems like neither.

Instead, by all appearances, somebody who is involved in licensing and/or legal matters made a Bad Decision.

But regardless of how the mistake is defined, whose fault it is, and whether or not the artists and players are being compensated fairly, there remains an unfortunate, enduring consequence of this mistake:

Trust is broken.

Next time a batch of Tennogen goes up for sale, who's going to buy it? What if DE has to take that back, too?

If I'm an artist, do I want to submit my work to a marketplace that does that kind of thing?

We're all just armchair quarterbacking here, of course. And at the end of the day, we're spending our hard-earned money on ephemeral bits and bytes that can evaporate at any time.

What makes that exchange worth it is the relationship DE has so carefully built with its community. Trust is a big part of that relationship.

I've never met or chatted with any of the DE folks. But I've watched a lot of streams and been part of many gaming communities, usually as the player, sometimes as the developer.

DE believes in and treasures this relationship with its community. Yes, this is their royal eff-up. And yes, I also wish they were more forthcoming in their communication and ownership of the problem.

But DE knows it has to rebuild trust with us, and wants to. This squabbling forum thread isn't the end of the story. If I were at DE, I'd be focused on rebuilding trust right now. It'll take time; it's a long-term strategy. But they're smart people and a hell of a lot more successful at game development than I was. They know their relationship with their community isn't merely their golden goose, but something special, beyond profitability.

I feel disappointed. But DE want to make this right. I believe that. They work too hard for us, way beyond the call of mere money, for me to believe otherwise. They value this relationship they have with us, their community, way beyond what a spreadsheet can measure.

So I'm not going anywhere. That's how relationships work.

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Hey, Tenno. I understand your confusion, so I'd like to answer some more specific questions here:

48 minutes ago, (PS4)Cephalon_Hope said:

But is it ALL of Switch Tennogen being revoked or is it just a few selected items ?

No, not all Nintendo Switch TennoGen is being removed! The bug made it so un-licensed TennoGen was available through the Arsenal that was not available is the Market. Only TennoGen that was exclusively available through the Arsenal has been removed, and players who purchased that TennoGen will be refunded their Platinum.

We released a big wave of TennoGen in the Fortuna: The Profit Taker & Nightwave update. All of that TennoGen is staying!

1 hour ago, (NSW)ohgodzilla said:

Pulling all of that without any prior notice or warning, and then providing no new information on when it's going to return outside of "we're working on it" is disappointing. 

Vaguely stating "We're working on it" was fine before this miss happened. Not so much now.

The plan is to have all TennoGen available on all consoles, but part of realizing that plan is doing right by TennoGen artists, and that takes time.

TennoGen creators submit designs through Steam on PC. PC players purchase through Steam, which assures that artists receives a cut of every purchase. Steam distribution isn’t possible on consoles, but we wanted to make sure TennoGen was available to all Tenno. That's why we worked out a way to make it purchasable with Platinum on consoles: we talk to each individual artist and make sure they are fairly compensated before releasing their designs.

That kind of coordination takes time, so we can’t say specifically when each piece that’s available on other platforms will be available on Nintendo Switch. This is absolutely our bad for not handling this bug sooner, and we will be working as fast as we can to restore each piece. This is on us. We're sorry.

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40 minutes ago, [DE]Helen said:

Hey, Tenno. I understand your confusion, so I'd like to answer some more specific questions here:

No, not all Nintendo Switch TennoGen is being removed! The bug made it so un-licensed TennoGen was available through the Arsenal that was not available is the Market. Only TennoGen that was exclusively available through the Arsenal has been removed, and players who purchased that TennoGen will be refunded their Platinum.

We released a big wave of TennoGen in the Fortuna: The Profit Taker & Nightwave update. All of that TennoGen is staying!

The plan is to have all TennoGen available on all consoles, but part of realizing that plan is doing right by TennoGen artists, and that takes time.

TennoGen creators submit designs through Steam on PC. PC players purchase through Steam, which assures that artists receives a cut of every purchase. Steam distribution isn’t possible on consoles, but we wanted to make sure TennoGen was available to all Tenno. That's why we worked out a way to make it purchasable with Platinum on consoles: we talk to each individual artist and make sure they are fairly compensated before releasing their designs.

That kind of coordination takes time, so we can’t say specifically when each piece that’s available on other platforms will be available on Nintendo Switch. This is absolutely our bad for not handling this bug sooner, and we will be working as fast as we can to restore each piece. This is on us. We're sorry.

So basically all the good ones are getting removed and the ugly ones are staying. So more than 90% of my TennoGen purchases. You know what, I don’t want the plat, you guys keep it. I’m not even joking. No way in hell am I buying any TennoGen again after this, I can’t trust you guys anymore and to be honest my interest in the game dwindled after this fiasco. Good luck with everything.

 

Edit: I regret buying the TennoCon 2019 Digital Pack. What a waste but that’s my fault for not waiting. Not buying anything again though that’s for sure. 

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52 minutes ago, (NSW)NeonNebula said:

How do you expect us to know that something like this would happen and that we should be careful when DE themselves were not careful and were irresponsible about all this in the first place? Like I said I never check the Market for TennoGen stuff, I didn't go "oh wait, before I buy this TennoGen item directly from the Arsenal let me just check and make sure that it's also available in the Market". So don't give me this lesson learned bs and no need for so much drama? How about you tell that to your PS4 buddies instead who complain and whine and cause so much drama about TennoGen getting delayed or getting less TennoGen than before in every thread. Also, you guys would be outraged if this happened to you.

"You guys", "Your PS4 buddies" No need to generalize there mate.

See whats in Bold ? Thats exactly what you should have done to prevent this from happening, never go full on "I trust you".

Just because you and some others are having a huge drama bomb over this doesnt mean every single person on Switch is doing the same, so just like I think some PS4 members are overdramatic, I think so are the people having a huge drama about this.

Also, no, i wouldnt give a single brain cell if this happened, because I would have my money back, and I could just wait for the item to come out and buy it back, what you mean is that there are also people like you in PS4 that make a huge deal out of a mistake just because it took 1 week or 2 before being fixed.

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This is supremely disappointing. Looking over what was in the actual update, basically every piece of Tennogen I bought will be gone and it will effectively trash all of the looks I've set up for my favorite warframes.

I literally bought something on Monday that I'm going to have pulled. I get that it will all (probably) come back eventually, but this blows.

I get that mistakes happen, I'm not sharpening the pitchforks or anything. That said, I'm extremely disappointed that this has gone unchecked for months and that pulling everything and refunding us is the solution. Hopefully the wait to get this stuff back so I can...respend my refunded plat in it is short. Once that happens though, probably stay away from Tennogen altogether going forward. Not really interested in the prospect of finding awesome new looks and losing them for a second time.

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3 minutes ago, (PS4)Cephalon_Hope said:

"You guys", "Your PS4 buddies" No need to generalize there mate.

See whats in Bold ? Thats exactly what you should have done to prevent this from happening, never go full on "I trust you".

Just because you and some others are having a huge drama bomb over this doesnt mean every single person on Switch is doing the same, so just like I think some PS4 members are overdramatic, I think so are the people having a huge drama about this.

Also, no, i wouldnt give a single brain cell if this happened, because I would have my money back, and I could just wait for the item to come out and buy it back, what you mean is that there are also people like you in PS4 that make a huge deal out of a mistake just because it took 1 week or 2 before being fixed.

Yeah okay man whatever you say. I won’t be wasting any more of my time here. 

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29 minutes ago, (PS4)Cephalon_Hope said:

Also, no, i wouldnt give a single brain cell if this happened, because I would have my money back,

No, no you wouldn't. You'd have some in game currency back, not your money. There is a BIG difference.

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If people bought plat specifically to buy Tennogen, then they should get their money back and not the plat. Because they wouldn't have bought the plat if not for the Tennogen. So it's still unfair. Either we get our money back or we keep the Tennogen and you refund the artists.

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Thank you for answering DE, the amount of radio silence for how big of a deal this honestly is was worrying. I'm still very upset- all of my looks that I've put a lot of time into and had pride in are going to be Thanos snapped from the game. I'm not jazzed about waiting months and months on end to get everything back, but the artists deserve payment. I just hope this can be sorted out ASAP and we can learn from this and move on. 

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All of it aside, what I am simply not getting is how they feel taking away purchases will be the correct fair solution... 

 

Go to a diner, waitress comes over half way through your meal, dumps you food into the trash and hands you a gift cert... 

 

DE TEAM... T H E R E   M U S T    BE     A   B E T T E R     W A Y

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The worst part is that, as i expected, all the Tennogen that my girlfriend bought or was looking forward to get is gone. all the cute ones like the butterfly wings... I'm sure the artists have a heart and would prefer even not getting payed for once than making a lot of fans sad.  Tennogen is from fans to fans after all. You are an amazing company that can make the impossible possible so just offer them money in value of the plat we spend and don't refund us. It would make us and them happy. Also you where mentioning crossaves anyway... maybe allow console players to buy Tennogen on steam and use it on consoles ? It would be a nice workaround for the licensing.

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While we appreciate the apology.. sorry doesn't exactly rebuild a trust that has been a little wrecked. We all feel pretty bad about being teased and having everything taken from us. I main Saryn and don't care for her basic skins or the prime. I bought one of the skins that will be removed and the butterfly wings to make her look the way that I wanted and now I'm going to have to go back to plain ol' prime Saryn for who knows how long. You can see why this would be upsetting when post game is all about flaunting your fashion frame. We all want a frame that we can be proud of.  Its going to take a lot to restore the faith of those effected. I can live with everything else being taken away but I am going to miss my Saryn's cosmetics. 

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So if I understand this correctly, the only licensed tennogen are these:

Quote

TENNOGEN SWITCH BUNDLE I
Nova Visage Skin
Mirage Morgaine Skin
Trinity Knightess Skin
Ember Graxx Skin
Saryn Graxx Skin

TENNOGEN SWITCH BUNDLE II
Volt Zener Skin
Wukong Auman Skin
Loki Incubus Skin
Excalibur Apex Skin
Rhino Mastodon Skin
Harrow Graxx Skin

TENNOGEN SWITCH BUNDLE III
Naru Syandana
Mithra Heavy Blade Skin
Rhino Teutonic Helmet
Loki Ersatz Helmet
Loki Rogue Helmet
Mesa Falcon Helmet
Nova Tachyon Helmet
Wukong Xingzhe Helmet

TennoGen Bundle XXXIV
Gara Zamariu Skin by led2012 and daemonstar 
Limbo Graxx Skin by Faven 
Equinox Divisa Skin by HitsuSan
Titania Lympharis Skin by lukinu_u
Kavr’r Greatsword Skin by Faven and Scharkie 

TennoGen Bundle XXXV
Zenoriu Earpices by led2012 and daemonstar 
Zenoriu Oculus by led2012 and daemonstar 
Zenoriu Mask by led2012 and daemonstar 
Garasu Oculus by lukinu_u and Ixe
Lumis Earrings by lukinu_u
Incognito Oculus by Prosetisen

TennoGen Round 15 (Not yet on switch, but i'm assuming it's licensed?)
Nidus Night Hunter by Mz-3
Garuda Successor by prosetisen 
Ivara Astrea Skin by Rekkou
Dominus Syandana by led2012 and jaeon009
Nikana Shinigami Skin by Hitsu San and Reil

And any other tennogen item that is not in this list is getting refunded?

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2 minutes ago, (NSW)Bromsson said:

So if I understand this correctly, the only licensed tennogen are these:

And any other tennogen item that is not in this list is getting refunded?

Pretty much. 

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After spending real world monies... I gotta say the way this switch "loophole" is being handled is pure salt in a wound... taking away the items purchased simply CANNOT be the correct solution. It actually hurts my brain to fathom that theyre going to remove items I pulled out my credit card and bought and then handing me in game currency... I dont want anything aside from what I bought. This is pure bull... there has to be a way to track what was bought and pay the owners accordingly. DE, YOU CAN DO BETTER THAN THIS... PLEASE DONT TAKE AWAY MY STUFF

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2 hours ago, [DE]Helen said:

Hey, Tenno. I understand your confusion, so I'd like to answer some more specific questions here:

No, not all Nintendo Switch TennoGen is being removed! The bug made it so un-licensed TennoGen was available through the Arsenal that was not available is the Market. Only TennoGen that was exclusively available through the Arsenal has been removed, and players who purchased that TennoGen will be refunded their Platinum.

We released a big wave of TennoGen in the Fortuna: The Profit Taker & Nightwave update. All of that TennoGen is staying!

The plan is to have all TennoGen available on all consoles, but part of realizing that plan is doing right by TennoGen artists, and that takes time.

TennoGen creators submit designs through Steam on PC. PC players purchase through Steam, which assures that artists receives a cut of every purchase. Steam distribution isn’t possible on consoles, but we wanted to make sure TennoGen was available to all Tenno. That's why we worked out a way to make it purchasable with Platinum on consoles: we talk to each individual artist and make sure they are fairly compensated before releasing their designs.

That kind of coordination takes time, so we can’t say specifically when each piece that’s available on other platforms will be available on Nintendo Switch. This is absolutely our bad for not handling this bug sooner, and we will be working as fast as we can to restore each piece. This is on us. We're sorry.

I fully and completely understand the reasoning behind this, but I’m more than disappointed. Me, aswell as many others, are now completely put off spending any more money on this game.

Like another commentor said, imagine ordering food at a restaurant, then half way through your meal the server comes and takes it away saying “sorry, a chef from a different store made this, you can’t keep it but here’s your money back, and if you cross your fingers we might maybe be able to get that chef to make this meal for you again in an undisclosed amount of time in the future! So hold onto this money we’re giving you back as you might get to try your luck again!” You’d never go back to that restaurant again. 

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Well, if we don't get compensation outside of the standard refund for our time designing fashion frames (Personally, several tens of hours) on the cosmetics we bought, I don't think I'll be spending a single dollar on plat again. Can't speak for everyone, but I assume I'm not the only one who thinks this.

You guys had several weeks, hundreds if not thousands of sales of plat that were directly converted to Tennogen items, many playstreams with people clearly sporting these items.

We deserve more than a "whoops" and a refund in this case, Tennogen items are literally bought by your most loyal players and it's sort of a slap in the face to us.

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As someone who recently was heavily let down by DE support by a non-tennogen but similar cosmetic inventory issue (I bought 2 helmets with 150 platinum, and next mainline update they were totally removed. When support finally returned to me with a verdict 3 weeks later, they said they had no record of the purchase and thus could not restore my platinum, despite me having screenshots of my inventory with the items there and then with the items removed), this is 2 strikes in a row for me.

The rollback is the only real correct course of action, but it SHOULD NEVER HAVE REACHED THIS POINT. Clearly DE has 0 people who spend any time on the Switch version outside of Wednesdays at 10am, or they'd realize that many aspects of the market and other UI elements are just totally broken (the thermia event progress bar was 100% nonfunctional for its ENTIRE original run). It hurts me for this to be my first forum post, because I do love the game and I know DE cares in general, but both the massive oversight in the first place and the attempt to downplay their own responsibility in the oversight have pushed me to make this post. Edit: If you're calling this a "bugfix," you should really, really post it in the update log and thread, too.

But look on the bright side... at least with the tennogen issue everyone's getting their plat back. It can always be worse! My plat has been sent to the ether, with no way to make an appeal as far as I can tell. (As you can see, I get bitter every time I think about that support response.) Godspeed on the licensing DE.

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2 hours ago, [DE]Helen said:

Hey, Tenno. I understand your confusion, so I'd like to answer some more specific questions here:

No, not all Nintendo Switch TennoGen is being removed! The bug made it so un-licensed TennoGen was available through the Arsenal that was not available is the Market. Only TennoGen that was exclusively available through the Arsenal has been removed, and players who purchased that TennoGen will be refunded their Platinum.

We released a big wave of TennoGen in the Fortuna: The Profit Taker & Nightwave update. All of that TennoGen is staying!

The plan is to have all TennoGen available on all consoles, but part of realizing that plan is doing right by TennoGen artists, and that takes time.

TennoGen creators submit designs through Steam on PC. PC players purchase through Steam, which assures that artists receives a cut of every purchase. Steam distribution isn’t possible on consoles, but we wanted to make sure TennoGen was available to all Tenno. That's why we worked out a way to make it purchasable with Platinum on consoles: we talk to each individual artist and make sure they are fairly compensated before releasing their designs.

That kind of coordination takes time, so we can’t say specifically when each piece that’s available on other platforms will be available on Nintendo Switch. This is absolutely our bad for not handling this bug sooner, and we will be working as fast as we can to restore each piece. This is on us. We're sorry.

I get it. But I still cant fathom how taking away the content purchased is justified... just take an inv on what was bought and reimburse the right people... why burn the fans ? I am not seeing how that helps.

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Hey I was just wondering if we could get a bit of a tighter ETA on when refunds will be received. I understand the situation and also understand that doing so many specfic returns isn't a quick process, however if things I purchased are to be taken from me in exchange for the platinum paid, I need to be aware of when the items will be removed and when I'll be receiving said refund. The mix up and error with Tennogen items is one thing, but don't be playing with my money honey.

Thanks and apologies if this came off negatively. I'm sad to lose the items, but I love the game and as long as I'm getting a refund I honestly can't complain.

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Some of you are going way overboard with this. My entire look from head to toe is tennogen, so I'm really annoyed too, just as mad as everybody else. But this is a legal matter at this point.
It's not up to DE whether we can keep our stuff until it's licensed. Yelling at them that we should get to keep it is childish and stupid. It's out of their hands. DE legally cannot sell other people's artwork in game without the licensing, and while they do technically co-own the artwork, the licensing contract for most of the tennogen didn't yet apply to switch so they didn't have the right to distribute it on our platform. Your feelings and outrage don't matter when it comes to the legal side of things and all DE can do about it is what they're already doing: apologise to us for their mistake, rectify it and get the licensing as fast as possible so it can all be repurchased. 

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I think that Queen_Kiripatra's post is being taken out of context. DE has made a mistake, bug or otherwise. They have owned up to the mistake and they are rectifying it to the best of their abilities given the circumstances.

That said, it isn't enough for some people, and that isn't at all unreasonable. People have gone to their jobs, gotten their paychecks, logged into their favorite game and bought cosmetic items; only for these items to be returned and that money refunded as digital currency. They don't *want* to buy something else, they either want their money back or they want their content back. Unfortunately, I don't think this is possible given the way the digital currency is purchased on the system.

DE is stuck between a rock and a hard place. Their fans are clearly unhappy with the situation, but they also need to make sure that the content creators are paid their share. I highly doubt anyone in this thread would deny that these people deserve to be paid for the content they created. That isn't what all this outrage is about. I think they just feel like they're the ones bearing the brunt of the steps taken to rectify the situation.

I honestly think something as simple as a coupon or a color palette would go a long way toward rebuilding the goodwill with these fans.

Maybe not though, I don't know. I'm not in that position.

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Some of you need to get a grip. Yes, this is frustrating and anyone affected has a right to be upset. However, the vitriol, the accusations of theft and conspiracy theories about this being intentional are completely unjustified and absolutely deluded. This sucks, but mistakes happen and you need to remember that DE are humans and deserve basic human respect, especially since the people who are our point of contact don't have any decision making capacity. You catch more flies with honey. You have every right to express frustration, but knock off the petulance and abuse. 

That said, it is becoming quite clear that the Switch version of Warframe is an afterthought with all of the blatant oversights and long standing bugs. We really do deserve better. It took 5 months to get a single Ghoul Purge! DE, you really need to step up your game because as someone who has spent a lot of money on this game I'm feeling like I don't want to spend any more.

Finally, anyone who is defending this by saying people should have checked to see if the thing they were buying was in the market as well is out of their mind. That is completely unreasonable and ridiculous.

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