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[DE]Rebecca

Nintendo Switch & Console Tennogen: Bug and Resolution.

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My biggest gripe with all of this is that DE double dipped. I don’t know exactly what goes on behind the curtain, but here are my thoughts:

On other consoles, when plat is purchased, the profit is split between DE and the platform store. Then, when tennogen is purchased, the creators get a kickback for their content. In this case, the subcontracts weren’t established and the kickbacks weren’t happening, meaning for purchased plat the pie was split between DE and Nintendo. 

We have no guarantee that these content contracts will reach agreeable terms for the content creators and DE, and players are going to use the refunded plat for other things in the meantime because, again, there’s no guarantee that your Deru Syandana will come back to the switch - and that player will have to find ways to get that plat again to buy that syandana if it does come back. Therefore DE gets a second cut of that cake. 

As for a resolution, I think DE should eat this cost. I’m way less apt to buy plat now that the content I buy isn’t really permanent. Removing the content from the market was a great first step, but removing it from the inventories of the players that purchased it leaves a sour note between the company and the player base. The content creators should get their kickbacks from every player that has already purchased the items, but any future purchases will be frozen until an agreement is in place. 

I also find it hard to believe that they aren’t tracking market purchases. Companies want to know what kind of content is selling so they can make more like it. And the switch as a platform should be no different. Alarms should have been going off when revenue was being generated from saryn’s integra skin on a platform that shouldn’t have it. 

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18 minutes ago, (NSW)Brutase said:

As for a resolution, I think DE should eat this cost. I’m way less apt to buy plat now that the content I buy isn’t really permanent. Removing the content from the market was a great first step, but removing it from the inventories of the players that purchased it leaves a sour note between the company and the player base. The content creators should get their kickbacks from every player that has already purchased the items, but any future purchases will be frozen until an agreement is in place.

I honestly couldn’t of put it any better myself, if anything throughout all these comments I hope someone at DE notices this one particular paragraph.

I still love DE and everything they do, they really are one of my all time favourite developers and this one issue shouldn’t taint my/everyone else’s opinions, but this really was just such an unfortunate situation, It’s a sad day for everyone!

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29 minutes ago, (NSW)Brutase said:

As for a resolution, I think DE should eat this cost. I’m way less apt to buy plat now that the content I buy isn’t really permanent. Removing the content from the market was a great first step, but removing it from the inventories of the players that purchased it leaves a sour note between the company and the player base. The content creators should get their kickbacks from every player that has already purchased the items, but any future purchases will be frozen until an agreement is in place. 

There was no agreement between the parties before the sale. If you allow people to keep the skins then you are no longer talking about an agreement, the parties will look to apply a penalty to DE and it's really up to their discretion since they own the rights. There might be not even a guarantee that they come to an understatement with some of these cosmetics and a licensing may never be issued for those items. Are you just gonna let some people have these cosmetics while others don't?

I do agree that fair compensation should be in order though. I think a fair compromise would be to refund the plat and have those cosmetics for free if/when they come out.

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8 minutes ago, (NSW)Bromsson said:

There was no agreement between the parties before the sale. If you allow people to keep the skins then you are no longer talking about an agreement, the parties will look to apply a penalty to DE and it's really up to their discretion since they own the rights. There might be not even a guarantee that they come to an understatement with some of these cosmetics and a licensing may never be issued for those items. Are you just gonna let some people have these cosmetics while others don't?

I do agree that fair compensation should be in order though. I think a fair compromise would be to refund the plat and have those cosmetics for free if/when they come out.

I really agree. There’s no perfect solution. That was something I considered after posting too - what happens if that addendum doesn’t get approved? 

I used to work on contracting out work in a separate industry. 

I’d assume a licensing contract is already in place for tennogen content. An addendum needs to be added to provide this stuff on switch - and addendums don’t usually take months to do. 

Maybe it can be rectified with a grace period - “We’ll let you keep the tennogen cosmetics that were purchased by our mistake while we continue to hammer out the subcontracts with the creators. However if an agreement isn’t reached by x date, we’ll be refunding the platinum and removing access to the content.”

Personally, I never would have purchased any tennogen if I had known this was an issue, and I doubt other folks in this thread would have either if this bug were reported earlier. It just feels as though I’m being penalized for supporting content I like. 

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I was looking to get one eventually but they're gone? I never saw anything about them being limited edition nor with any timer indicating it in the shops. What's going on?

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14 minutes ago, (NSW)Kaizer said:

I was looking to get one eventually but they're gone? I never saw anything about them being limited edition nor with any timer indicating it in the shops. What's going on?

Did you read the original post? They weren't supposed to be out for switch yet. They didn't have the licensing and have to refund everyone and take them away until they have the legal licensing. 

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10 minutes ago, (NSW)GhoulVixen said:

Did you read the original post? They weren't supposed to be out for switch yet. They didn't have the licensing and have to refund everyone and take them away until they have the legal licensing. 

No, I saw nothing whatsoever, not even any headlines or even a facebook post.

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3 minutes ago, (NSW)Kaizer said:

 

No, I saw nothing whatsoever, not even any headlines or even a facebook post.

I meant the original post that DE made that started this thread. 

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If this is a bug, what takes you guys months to realize that you are selling unlisenced tennogen stuffs? Also, the mirage Synoid Simulor bug was widely used for such a long time and during the time no comment was made. Does this mean you care NS server less than PC and other consoles?

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Ok, telling Switch players who bought ”unlicensed” TennoGen from the Arsenal that its their fault for wasting that Platinum isn’t helping anyone. I thought our fellow Tenno would be more supportive than this, I’m truly disappointed right now. I feel for you all and hope this issue is resolved soon. I would hate for this to happen on my platform, and we’ve had TennoGen delays for months so this wouldn’t be out if the realm of possibility.

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You guys really need to get your act together.  I love this game, but it's like you guys don't pay attention at all when it comes to bugs, especially on switch.  We STILL have the bugs with gear in relation to the new melee system, and many more that still aren't fixed.  You guys rarely reply to issues and many of us honestly wonder if you even read these stupid forums or just use them to throw issues under the rug (cause the response a help ticket gets is ALWAYS "use the forums.")  Heck, you guys probably aren't even reading the replies to THIS thread. e_e

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9 hours ago, (NSW)Queen_Kiripatra said:

Some of you are going way overboard with this. My entire look from head to toe is tennogen, so I'm really annoyed too, just as mad as everybody else. But this is a legal matter at this point.
It's not up to DE whether we can keep our stuff until it's licensed. Yelling at them that we should get to keep it is childish and stupid. It's out of their hands. DE legally cannot sell other people's artwork in game without the licensing, and while they do technically co-own the artwork, the licensing contract for most of the tennogen didn't yet apply to switch so they didn't have the right to distribute it on our platform. Your feelings and outrage don't matter when it comes to the legal side of things and all DE can do about it is what they're already doing: apologise to us for their mistake, rectify it and get the licensing as fast as possible so it can all be repurchased. 

The people taking it "overboard" are most likely the same people who have spent a large amount of money on something digital only to have it unlawfully removed and have been "compensated" with a relatively useless digital currency and a "oh oopsie sorry our bad" and the somewhat slim hope that some not all of the items may one day be licensed and returned to this version of the game and are therefore easily allowed to voice frustration, disappointment and sadness.

 

Plus let's not go into a purely legal discussion on this.  Yes they aren't allowed to sell IP they dont own GOING FORWARD.  Similarly they aren't actually legally entitled to remove something from the possession of someone who has bought and paid for something entirely in good faith who is not aware that the person selling such item was not entitled to sell the item.  If you want to get technical on it, it in the real world not digital lala land that matter would require the owner of the IP to make an application to court known as a 'spoliation application/mandament can spolie' to remove the item from a bona fide possessor who temporarily actually holds a stronger legal right, so the rollback isn't legally sound either.

Finally DE Helen's response actually echoes the position I stated earlier, this isn't a "licensing issue" per se, and most people who dont understand legal process are being misled.  Licensing takes a few days at most.  The hold up is because of a commercial negotiation on compensation (i.e. profitshare) not a licensing discussion which is why it is taking long and may not happen.

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Uh, weren’t those Syandanas up there for like a month or more? How’d it take so long to notice?

 

Thankfully I didn’t spend any plat on the Tennogen Items so I’m less salty, but it must be very frustrating for people who did. Damn. 

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So apparently DE might be trying to silence talk about this in-game... my friend caught a one week chat ban for trying to discuss it.

 

This is absolutely absurd that they would do something like this...

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13 hours ago, (NSW)Brunzwick said:

No, no you wouldn't. You'd have some in game currency back, not your money. There is a BIG difference.

Yes, yes you would, because that ingame currency was what you paid for (its your money) and you can easily not waste it and buy back the items wen they are officially released, simple.

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5 hours ago, (NSW)Enso said:

The people taking it "overboard" are most likely the same people who have spent a large amount of money on something digital only to have it unlawfully removed and have been "compensated" with a relatively useless digital currency and a "oh oopsie sorry our bad" and the somewhat slim hope that some not all of the items may one day be licensed and returned to this version of the game and are therefore easily allowed to voice frustration, disappointment and sadness.

 

Plus let's not go into a purely legal discussion on this.  Yes they aren't allowed to sell IP they dont own GOING FORWARD.  Similarly they aren't actually legally entitled to remove something from the possession of someone who has bought and paid for something entirely in good faith who is not aware that the person selling such item was not entitled to sell the item.  If you want to get technical on it, it in the real world not digital lala land that matter would require the owner of the IP to make an application to court known as a 'spoliation application/mandament can spolie' to remove the item from a bona fide possessor who temporarily actually holds a stronger legal right, so the rollback isn't legally sound either.

Finally DE Helen's response actually echoes the position I stated earlier, this isn't a "licensing issue" per se, and most people who dont understand legal process are being misled.  Licensing takes a few days at most.  The hold up is because of a commercial negotiation on compensation (i.e. profitshare) not a licensing discussion which is why it is taking long and may not 

THIS IS PERFECTLY WHAT MY ANGRY BRAIN WAS TRYING TO SAY

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First off, i have been a GREAT fan (as all of us) for DE/Warframe because the the singularity of TENOGEN sets it apart from other AAA Games.   I absolutely support WarFrame because of the TENNOGEN Designer Community and content.  I consistently tell people to play warframe because of tennogen and warframes' ability to MAKE GAMES BETTER by making items and designs.. NOT PAYING FOR DESIGNS. 

It gives the possibility (even thinest chance to have it happen) to design something within the game and make money for a game rather than "spend money" on a game.. such as Fortnite or any other big name game (free or not). 

I absolutey support all the designers of tennogen, which is why i buy the tennogen gear from the old PC Steam Days of being on STEAM/WINDOWS before Nintendo Switch... I see this as a speed bump. But lets preserve the tennogen on all platforms.  Its what makes this WARFRAME community Great!

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6 hours ago, (PS4)Cephalon_Hope said:

Yes, yes you would, because that ingame currency was what you paid for (its your money) and you can easily not waste it and buy back the items wen they are officially released, simple.

I purchased plat to use on tennogen content. More than half of that content is being removed with no promise of all of it coming back. If the repala syanadana doesn’t come back, that’s five dollars worth of plat that I purchased in which I otherwise wouldn’t have.

I wouldn’t have purchased the plat in the first place without the allure of those cosmetics. 

So, no. Getting a plat refund is not the same as getting my money back. 

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1 minute ago, (NSW)Brutase said:

I purchased plat to use on tennogen content. More than half of that content is being removed with no promise of all of it coming back. If the repala syanadana doesn’t come back, that’s five dollars worth of plat that I purchased in which I otherwise wouldn’t have.

I wouldn’t have purchased the plat in the first place without the allure of those cosmetics. 

So, no. Getting a plat refund is not the same as getting my money back. 

The items will most likely come back, there hasn't been a case where Tennogen failed to get into all consoles, you guys should be saving your words IF it indeed doesn't come back, being over-dramatic will just make it seem like you are going overboard whit this and kinda diminishes the whole situation imo.

Just be patience and everything will be resolved.

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7 minutes ago, (PS4)Cephalon_Hope said:

The items will most likely come back, there hasn't been a case where Tennogen failed to get into all consoles, you guys should be saving your words IF it indeed doesn't come back, being over-dramatic will just make it seem like you are going overboard whit this and kinda diminishes the whole situation imo.

Just be patience and everything will be resolved.

It’s easy to just be patient - let DE ride out this mistake and let it blow over, but this mistake has cost plenty of people real world money. 

And I don’t think we can say that all of the tennogen is coming back. The switch version has been live for almost 6 months with only 3 bundles of tennogen being released with Fortuna. Why is this so slow?

We know it’s not a problem with creating the assets in game because for a time, they were all ingame. The 6 month slowdown is coming from disputes around the profit sharing after Nintendo takes their cut. There is a contract already in place with the content creators. They just need addendums that say, “and this can be sold on the switch too for x kickback.”

These addendums don’t take long to write - on the scale of days, but it’s been 6ish months and the terms aren’t agreeable. 

I don’t think you are outraged enough 🤷‍♂️

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5 minutes ago, (NSW)Brutase said:

It’s easy to just be patient - let DE ride out this mistake and let it blow over, but this mistake has cost plenty of people real world money. 

And I don’t think we can say that all of the tennogen is coming back. The switch version has been live for almost 6 months with only 3 bundles of tennogen being released with Fortuna. Why is this so slow?

We know it’s not a problem with creating the assets in game because for a time, they were all ingame. The 6 month slowdown is coming from disputes around the profit sharing after Nintendo takes their cut. There is a contract already in place with the content creators. They just need addendums that say, “and this can be sold on the switch too for x kickback.”

These addendums don’t take long to write - on the scale of days, but it’s been 6ish months and the terms aren’t agreeable. 

I don’t think you are outraged enough 🤷‍♂️

And I think you are outraged way too much, its a meter of licencing, until DE has proper licencing to place the items in the game they simply cant, period, if its faster or slower its between them and Nintendo, the Tennogen items that PS4 and Xbox has will eventually come to Switch, I dont see DE leaving a whole console deprived of content. 

And no, it didnt cost anyone real world money, the money you used was to buy the platinum, if you still have the platinum then you haven't lost your money, its still there in the game, the reason you bought the platinum for doesn't mean you suddenly lost your money, because just like I said, this whole outrage should be saved for the case that said Tennogen does not come to Switch, IF that happens then the outrage is justified, but until then, just stay calm and let DE work their magic and see if they can license the items.

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On 2019-04-17 at 1:48 AM, (XB1)Lycentia said:

Welcome to Warframe: Console editions. We are not as important as PC

That's a sad thing to see someone say. But I can't help but admit this is what it feels like right now.

The point of my post which I didn't really word well which is my own fault is this; every single bug lasts months. While maybe to some people mentioning "bugs" isn't relevant; it really is.

We had a month of having these items. Had it been corrected in a reasonable amount of time it probably would feel so bad to so many players. Like every other bug (lasting about 2-3 months and are game breaking / changing) it wasn't realized until imo far too long later. Either no one is paying attention to the Nintendo switch version or the communication in which would let us know they KNOW but there's nothing they can do isn't very widely spread. That isn't a good thing either.

I've read this thread as well as several others on reddit about this. People are unhappy, lost trust, some even because of this loss of trust want to put the game down. I honestly don't think simply handing them their plat back with a "were soooorry" is going to cover it. Compensation to show ninntenno they are valuable customers would be a great start to making this better.

And honestly; guys. Stop running over to this thread to argue with people who are upset. They have a right to be. You don't control any part of what goes on with them or DE. Take a backseat and chill. Let people express themselves otherwise DE wont know the actual impact this had on our version. Thanks and have a wonderful day.

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I actually kind of agree that those that aren't complaining should be elsewhere. Let those that are upset vent. DE won't know how upset the fan base is if no one tells them. Everyone has the right to have a voice. Especially those effected by all of this. The tennogen artists and the switch users that bought these items and are losing them both have fair grounds to be upset.  I also agree that switch users need more than a "Oops. Our bad." and a plat refund. Without tennogen there is nothing those people may want to spend plat on so the refund is almost meaningless. I have plenty of plat left on my game already without my refund (which I am waiting on.) and nothing I want to spend that plat on already. So.. I understand why everyone is so angry. I'm not exactly a happy camper myself. I believe that trust needs to be rebuilt with the switch users and I am sure DE will slowly work towards that. 

Just because I am mad, doesn't mean that I don't understand that mistakes happen. I get that. DE is human too. They make mistakes. However, I strongly agree that these items have been available for so long that it is a tad ridiculous that they are just now noticing. Especially when we know they play the switch version at least every Wednesday. Pictures have been tweeted of squading with randoms on switch. I am sure they have seen people with these cosmetics. Hell, I have posted pictures of my Saryn and her tennogen stuff that will be taken from me and tagged them in it. There isn't much of an excuse for it lasting this long undetected. Like one of the people above me stated: "Either they aren't paying much attention to the switch version or they aren't communicated that they KNEW." Either way.. that is NOT a good thing. 

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Hey, Tenno. We've finished running the script to refund Platinum to all players who had unlicensed TennoGen items removed from their Arsenals. If your Platinum has not been refunded, please contact our Support team right away.

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