Arbitrations Revisited

[Emperrier]

Why is Elite Sanctuary Onslaught still allowed to be terrible? You keep adding 2% rotation C rewards even as the whole mode is ruined with host migrations from people leveling weapons and leaving at zone 3, past the point where their vacancy can be filled by matchmaking. Literally all you need to do is extend the "must be Rank 30" rule on frames to include weapons.

[NickelStiller]

But what about solo players?

[Yggdrazzil]

Reviving doesn't make it easier to deal with enemies that are outscaling you so why make them outscale you faster?

Besides, for solo players, this will just mean a straight up increase in difficulty with NO BENEFITS.

If you want to improve arbitrations, I suggest you reduce rewards to every 5 waves. THAT would justify uncapping enemy scaling. (More rewards, so more risk)

 

[NinjaKitsune56]

18 hours ago, Azrubel said:

And what happens if I pick up a resurgence burden by accident when I don't want (or the dead squadmate doesn't want) to do the revival? That is the only thing that slightly bothers me.

That aside, looks nice. Good job.

Generally-speaking, people tend to be rather irritated with themselves when they get downed in Arbitrations. So a revival option outside Iron Renewal or the like would, imo, be welcome.

[(XBOX)Froz3n]

These changes are underwhelming and disappointing. It ultimately doesn't address any of the issues I feel most people had with the game mode.

-There is still absolutely no reason to bring squishy frames(due to drones making damage/debuffing ability pointless and general scaling problems the game has innately). The game mode actively ensintivises bringing tanks such as Rhino or Inaros between ability doing nothing to drones and their tethered allies; and the one deaths limit.(than with the change the Rhino in the squad will just be annoyed someone brought banshee that got one shot so They have to keep reviving them.

-Increase in difficulty (or rather increase in health and damage) is odd but only reinforces the idea of brining a Tank frame as well. But with the additional challenge brining to quicker rewards is just counter intuitive. If your goal is to make it more fun by making it harder to get rewards is not a great idea. Additionally many players think the reward structure to being double what it normally is is hilariously overturned.

-Than finally these missions are just glorified versions of normal missions. Outside of the drones, which are probably the worst designed part of the mode, this mode is just a normal mode that takes longer times to get the rewards.

I'd like to see the reward time  go down. Maybe for instance defense, instead of 10 waves make it 7. As well as change the Arbitration drones themselves. A idea is to have them vulnerable to debuffing ability (i.e. banshee sonar, equinox sleep, ect) but have them immune to the damage of abilitys. No longer makes enemies immune to all damage, But gives them 50% damage reduction. Maybe make 2 versions of the drone (indicated by a change of there energy color) and have one make enemies slightly faster and give them a additional 25% dmg reduction against guns/melee but makes them more susceptible to debufs from abilitys (making them last longer, or give them additionally power strength) while another type of drone can make abilitys weaker (make them not last as long, reduced power strength) but make them more susceptible to gun damage by 10%. Something just to make them not just a annoyance and make a reason to have a mix of ability and gunplay. Because right now its, pick a tank, and if they have a ability that buffs gun damage GREAT! Than I would make it at LEAST so team mates can pick you up in a downed state after you go down in addition to the revive player through financial stress points. Than I'd remove the 300% strength & weapon thing. I'd rather see maybe random buffs that applies to all warrants. Maybe +300 armor one abitration and +50% duration another. Just general smaller buffs every frame can benifit from. Finally I'd like to make abitrations unique from other modes. Maybe once every x waves or time in order for you to get the reward you have to defeat a certain enemie such as the wolf, or the stalker (for the hunters of course nerf there damage and scaling to the mission), add bosses but remove invulnerability phases, make them weak to abilitys, or maybe just make one random eximus unit make them twice as large, Double all there values. (Of course there'd need to be more tuning to that but it's just a idea. Same with all the other specific numbers I've mentioned) 

If even half if these changes made it through I'd probably consider to do abitrations. But right now I just see it as 2nd best endo farm and adaptation farm.

[CatJinx]

This idea is stupid.

These are the things I think that should be tweaked to the system:

1. The host leaving, or any other that makes the game reload:  For example, I'm playing as Gara, and I loaded my Splinter Storm. Well, whenever the game reloads I need to stack all that damage up again. It's really annoying. Also, you have a chance to die even if you can't see anything, your loading screen might still be running but your frame is already in game which gives you an unexpected and annoying death.

2. You shouldn't have to wait until the game ended to receive your rewards to the point where you survived. I think if you 'abort' your mission, you should be able to take your rewards with you until the mark where you died, there's no need to wait until the leftover team goes to extraction.

What if my warframe can survive abitration but is quite vulnerable to any health that one might lose due to this "financial stress"? What if I don't want to pick up these pickups because I know that I will die? Maybe the response is: get a better warframe. But then, don't suprised when you only see a Nidus and Inaros instead of where you can still find a Gara, Garuda or a Trin. 

[Ham_Grenabe]

I thought the point of Arbitrations was "if you die, you're done." I mean, I hate being dead, but I kinda thought that was the challenge -- "don't have a momentary lapse in concentration."

If you're going to do the five token thing, though, they have to be intentional pickups - as in, you have to interact to pick them up. Automatic debuff pickups in the midst of a pile of enemies is a Bad Idea.

 

Also, it seems like you could have left Arbitrations as they were by coming up with a better way to handle host migration. Just sayin'.

[Zanchak]

The revives idea sounds ok, but it shouldnt be auto pickup as mentioned throughout this thread. You may need to restock your own health before picking them up and youd be out of luck doing so if they auto latch to you mid-fight.

10 minutes per round is still too long and too boring. Difficulty comes a distant second to boredom.

[Vortuna]

This only makes it far harder for solo players without better rewards to compensate, and for the record I don't really do arbitration with a group because of Host Migration, that's it.

[ReaverKane]

1 hour ago, Ham_Grenabe said:

Also, it seems like you could have left Arbitrations as they were by coming up with a better way to handle host migration. Just sayin'.

That seems to be EXACTLY what they did!!
Host migration isn't just an issue in Arbitrations, and instead of working on THAT systemic problem that is hugely detrimental to Warframe, they decided to remove what was the whole premise of Arbitrations.
They didn't remove the longer wave times, or the other stuff that makes it boring and annoying instead of hard, they removed the whole point of the content, which was permadeath...

Stellar design.

[DarkFenix2k5]

Way to completely miss the point DE. Permadeath was the sole interesting thing about arbitrations, one of their good points, and you're removing it.

The problem with arbitrations is the sheer tedium, they just take far too long for how little you're getting. 30 minutes to start getting remotely worthwhile rewards? What a joke.

[guiltyx2]

Still a boring mission.

[Silly_Dili]

Love this update! More love for Arbitretions. But can we talk about those ospreys?
Could we get rid of the immunity to warframe abilities and damage... Make the ospreys give their allies 75% damage reduction, like Trinity? Reduced duration on crowd control, like many bosses in the game?

Would it be possible to pick up respawn points and drop them again? I also hope the points aren't affected by vacuum/fetch.

Really excited to see the cosmetics and what'll happen with archwing rivens 🙂

[OmegaConstruct]

Are you kidding? Permadeth consequences was literally the ONLY interesting thing about the game mode. Looks like I'm never doing a pub matchmaking arbitration again, because the last thing I need is a MR9 with unforma'd gear who just finished off the starchart spamming chat for a revive 3 minutes into the game. On top of that, the index point mechanic is a terrible idea because it's a permanent debuff that you can't get rid of unless you cash them in, after accidentally picking them up when you didn't want to pick it up in the first place.

This makes arbitrations worse, without fixing any of the community's complaints about the game mode. 

Also, yay more rivens! So glad you guys decided to expand on the single biggest source of toxicity in the game. More chances for people to be riven snobs is exactly what the community needs.

Thanks DE, I hate it.

[IceFire909]

I couldn't care less about revives being a thing or not. but it's the insanely tedious and drawn out missions that are the killer. 10 minutes for a single reward just sucks super hard. I think I've only done about 7 runs of it because:

- It takes forever to get a single reward drop

- the no-fun annoying immortality shield drones exist

At the very least can you just get rid of the immortality drones? crank up their natural resistances or something just stop with invulnerable states. Exploiter orb proved that invulnerability isn't needed to make fights fun.

[TheGreenFellow]

Echoing what has been said in this thread already, the tediousness of Arbitration is why I avoid playing it. No other reason.

Same reason I avoid Defense missions whenever possible.

[(PSN)BlightDragon89]

My issue with Arbitrations is that they are not great for solo players. I usually play solo, and I don't mind the 1 death (though if I could bank the revive beacons in solo play that would be great), but the length does stink for solo play. Especially if the enemies are going to scale faster. I see that making the time investment more fun for groups, but it will make things much harder for solo play. I want a challenge, but not a Dark Souls level challenge.

I also like the suggestions I have seen above to make the drones buff the enemies, but not make then invincible. I have had issues with the drones clipping into the environment and therefor I get surrounded by invincible enemies. That's not challenge, that's a death trap.

[LasarraSelendis]

With the inclusion of Archgun Rivens placed onto the table, Will the Riven slots maximum capacity of 90 be further more increased?
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Please?.... xD

[tarfeef101]

7 hours ago, WeaselBoy said:

I don't like my drop tables diluted with one-time, non-tradable, cosmetic junk. These just turn into 2500 credit cache rewards after the first time.

I do however like Endo. Endo will always be useful. Either for maxing my own mods, or maxing duplicates to trade, endo is never a wasted resource. If you want DE to add other stuff to the reward structure, it should be added into the vitus redemption.

 

 

Then maybe have 5x vitus or something in there instead. But honestly I have more than enough endo for myself, and trading maxed mods is a pain. 90% of the time people back out and you just wasted thousands of endo. There are better ways to make plat. 

But I totally agree with you about the one-time nature of stuff. Octavia neuroptics has ruined ODS for me. Every freaking C rotation... without fail

[Teoarrk]

I am okay with the conceptual changes, but I would be much happier if they added the nightmare multipliers to these missions randomly. Since death is no longer permanent, a major component of control has been given back into the hands of players.

22 hours ago, DragoonStorm1 said:

People are going to start howling in chat to be revived, over and over again.

Howl all you want, we won't bring you back.

[Alaeacus]

https://old.reddit.com/r/Warframe/comments/bevn56/arbitrations_were_already_unrewarding_and_now/

So now I have to hide in a section of the map in order to not pick up Debuff Revive Orbs, or risk dying myself because I'm exponentially weaker for picking them up?  Lets say I successfully avoid these stupid orbs the whole time.  When it comes time for extraction, I will need to parkour through the level in order to get to extraction, while avoiding all these stupid debuff orbs along the way that nobody has picked up.  

You're forcing me to find the Extraction point as early as possible, and camp there the entire stage so I can avoid picking up debuff orbs.  You're making a long mode longer.  Are you trying to tell players that they shouldn't take Vaccuum on their pet in Arbitrations? 

P.S.  If you must add more, give me Sentinel and Pet Rivens.  Nobody wants Archgun Rivens.  

[(PSN)ForNoPurpose]

Not going to lie..

This is overly convoluted, doesn't address the issues, and seems setup to make things worse than they already are.

[deinonychus1]

23 hours ago, SSI_Seraph said:

Can anything be done about the spawns in solo Survival arbitrations too? It seems really hit or miss with some maps rn.

 

23 hours ago, Bipp said:

That's something people have been complaining about for literal years now (solo spawn counts in general).

Don't hold your breath, is my advice.

This is something they've been mentioning repeatedly in devstreams and progress updates, so I'm repeatedly surprised with how it seems the majority of players don't know this: this is due to the AI/pathfinding code, which is so badly broken that they have to completely remake and replace it. The good news, however, is that Steve said the AI team is mostly finished, so coming soon^TM.

[Waldo_man12222]

Hey all I know that the update has not come out quite yet but i wanted to put my two cents in. I feel like the revive idea will probably be a positive one and gives more reason for the drones to be there. However, I still take issue with the reward system. Each mission you do feels completely unrewarding comparatively to the time spent and the current enemy level. Of course the level of the enemies are fine and are the current reason that this gamemode exists, but I feel like something needs to be done about either how fast you get the rewards or the quality of them.

[PrawiSucia]

Oh no no no no... permadeath is the main attraction of arbitration. The only thing that annoys me is the duration. 10 mins survival for a reward is too long and boring. Please just rework the duration and let everything else as is.