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When it comes to rewards they need to scale by how long people play for e.g. interception wave 2 2,000 endo, wave 4 4,000 endo, wave 6 6,000 endo etc.

Reward options in missions;

  • Void traces 500x  
  • Permanente argon crystals x2
  • Tellurium x4
  • Kuva x6,000 

Reward options exclusive from arbiters;

  • Weapon mods
  • K-drive cosmetics
  • Emotes
  • Warframe statue pose

Operator;

  • Armour
  • Mask
  • Amps
  • Hairstyles
  • Face ornaments
  • Archanes
  • Statue pose

One thing I would like to see in the future is new game modes where it`s related to the syndicates like arbitrations.

 

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I think my biggest gripe with Arbritations was (and as it looks like will be) boredom. Always the same enemies for quite a long time, without many milestones in between and without interesting loot for the first 30 Minutes. I think I most often died because I just didn't pay attention to the game anymore, rather than the enemies being that overwhelming.  Perhaps the faster leveling enemies will change that a bit, but I kinda doubt it.

Elite Sanctuary Onslaught by camparison is way more fun, thanks to it's diverse enemies and shorter reward-cycle, but I guess coping things from it, will not make a unique thing out of Arbritations.

What about making it some kind of endless chain of random missions, instead of just a "a little harder" endless Misson? You start as a spy mission, and thanks to the data you know: There's a cryo-captive you need to defrost/defend for X Minutes. Then while bringing the Capitve to the exit: Suddenly Infested Invasion, so bring the Captive to saftery and then better sabotage / blow up this ship. While the countdown lasts, head to the escape pod to board the infested Vessel that brought the invaders here...

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Posted (edited)

Problem 1 - SLOW: I hope the 'slow' part will be fixed too. Really, 10mins in survival is already boring but at least you know how much time it will take, but 10 waves on defense is really too much, counting all the bugged AI Path and stucked enemies inside objects it takes FOREVER. So I generally just skip a lot of mode waiting better and faster one.

Problem 2 - BOREDOM: Arbitrations aren't even so much hard (excluding bugs and kamikaze objectives), they are only time intensive and boring, pretty much a waiting game multiplied by two. I would like to see something harder (so less boring) but faster, if it is possible.

Problem 3 - DROP: I think that the more you play (and the harder it gets) you should be rewarded with better drop.

And another thing. Any way to add a passive to Inaros in Arbitration? Maybe even 'more hp' or 'less of those things needed to revive him', because It's just sad to see a frame with a passive disabled. And I don't even play Inaros.

Edited by DukeNix
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Will we be able to revive kubrows, kavats, and MOA pets using the same mechanic displayed?

Do you also have any plans to increase our maximum Riven capacity now that Archgun Rivens have been announced?

I am wondering if you have any plans to give certain warframes that scale poorly with power strength such as loki and vauban(currently) a different buff to make them enticing options?

These all seem like excellent changes regardless. Happy to see you revisit a mode that has its share of issues

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There's still sudden inexplicable deaths in arbitrations, so I do think that weakening permadeath is a decent idea.  That being said, I think that putting debuffs on the surviving players is a poor decision: it punishes not the person who died, but the people who didn't die.  A group of 1 dead player and 3 survivors is in a worse position than one that just started with 3 players; they need to deal with the debuffs in addition to being down a player.  This could make playing arbitrations in public much less appealing.

Instead, let me propose that players who die can respawn, but they have 5 stacks of the debuff on them.  If they die with any debuff stacks, they're permanently dead.  Picking up arbitration drone drops removes one stack of the debuff instead of adding one.  (If it were time-based instead of drop-based, then respawning players would just hide.)

I think that upping the scaling without upping the rewards is a not a good idea - particularly since solo players get no benefit whatsoever out of the changes.  I'd personally be fine with tripling or quadrupling the scaling speed in exchange for reward intervals that match the rest of the game.  I'd much prefer a hard challenge that we get to quickly over the endurance challenge of slow scaling that arbitration is now.

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I still believe removing the ability to host for anyone with a higher quit rate of 5% would be better.

Some players are reliable hosts and will not quit after death, a fail or a quit is pretty much the same thing, the task assigned to you failed and so making sure reliable hosts are the ones that host is important, the ability to revive is pointless, it also takes away the challenge and the consequence.

Arbitrations have been an eye opener for many and it would be nice that the players that die reveal themselves as players who quit or players who trust the team so they can get a mission completion added to the profile, the ability to revive takes away that reality, so i'm against it in a similar fashion to the self reviving mechanic.

Introducing mechanics that reduce the probability of fail in a mission are a no no in my point of view, if you die, you should not be able to self revive so that other players think on what do to and so that for some time abilities can't be used, self reviving eliminates that and players resume with abilities after a few seconds.

Arbitrations should make players remain dead so that they either improve and choose if they want a quit added to profile or not, you have to reward those that place effort into the game, instead of catering to those who are clearly not ready, ready to play and ready to host.

Make arbitrations impossible to host if the user has more than 5% quit rate, that will certainly reduce the host migrations because someone working hard not to quit will not quit even in an arbitration.

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Why is Elite Sanctuary Onslaught still allowed to be terrible? You keep adding 2% rotation C rewards even as the whole mode is ruined with host migrations from people leveling weapons and leaving at zone 3, past the point where their vacancy can be filled by matchmaking. Literally all you need to do is extend the "must be Rank 30" rule on frames to include weapons.

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Reviving doesn't make it easier to deal with enemies that are outscaling you so why make them outscale you faster?

Besides, for solo players, this will just mean a straight up increase in difficulty with NO BENEFITS.

If you want to improve arbitrations, I suggest you reduce rewards to every 5 waves. THAT would justify uncapping enemy scaling. (More rewards, so more risk)

 

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18 hours ago, Azrubel said:

And what happens if I pick up a resurgence burden by accident when I don't want (or the dead squadmate doesn't want) to do the revival? That is the only thing that slightly bothers me.

That aside, looks nice. Good job.

Generally-speaking, people tend to be rather irritated with themselves when they get downed in Arbitrations. So a revival option outside Iron Renewal or the like would, imo, be welcome.

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Posted (edited)

These changes are underwhelming and disappointing. It ultimately doesn't address any of the issues I feel most people had with the game mode.

-There is still absolutely no reason to bring squishy frames(due to drones making damage/debuffing ability pointless and general scaling problems the game has innately). The game mode actively ensintivises bringing tanks such as Rhino or Inaros between ability doing nothing to drones and their tethered allies; and the one deaths limit.(than with the change the Rhino in the squad will just be annoyed someone brought banshee that got one shot so They have to keep reviving them.

-Increase in difficulty (or rather increase in health and damage) is odd but only reinforces the idea of brining a Tank frame as well. But with the additional challenge brining to quicker rewards is just counter intuitive. If your goal is to make it more fun by making it harder to get rewards is not a great idea. Additionally many players think the reward structure to being double what it normally is is hilariously overturned.

-Than finally these missions are just glorified versions of normal missions. Outside of the drones, which are probably the worst designed part of the mode, this mode is just a normal mode that takes longer times to get the rewards.

I'd like to see the reward time  go down. Maybe for instance defense, instead of 10 waves make it 7. As well as change the Arbitration drones themselves. A idea is to have them vulnerable to debuffing ability (i.e. banshee sonar, equinox sleep, ect) but have them immune to the damage of abilitys. No longer makes enemies immune to all damage, But gives them 50% damage reduction. Maybe make 2 versions of the drone (indicated by a change of there energy color) and have one make enemies slightly faster and give them a additional 25% dmg reduction against guns/melee but makes them more susceptible to debufs from abilitys (making them last longer, or give them additionally power strength) while another type of drone can make abilitys weaker (make them not last as long, reduced power strength) but make them more susceptible to gun damage by 10%. Something just to make them not just a annoyance and make a reason to have a mix of ability and gunplay. Because right now its, pick a tank, and if they have a ability that buffs gun damage GREAT! Than I would make it at LEAST so team mates can pick you up in a downed state after you go down in addition to the revive player through financial stress points. Than I'd remove the 300% strength & weapon thing. I'd rather see maybe random buffs that applies to all warrants. Maybe +300 armor one abitration and +50% duration another. Just general smaller buffs every frame can benifit from. Finally I'd like to make abitrations unique from other modes. Maybe once every x waves or time in order for you to get the reward you have to defeat a certain enemie such as the wolf, or the stalker (for the hunters of course nerf there damage and scaling to the mission), add bosses but remove invulnerability phases, make them weak to abilitys, or maybe just make one random eximus unit make them twice as large, Double all there values. (Of course there'd need to be more tuning to that but it's just a idea. Same with all the other specific numbers I've mentioned) 

If even half if these changes made it through I'd probably consider to do abitrations. But right now I just see it as 2nd best endo farm and adaptation farm.

Edited by (XB1)Froz3n
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This idea is stupid.

These are the things I think that should be tweaked to the system:

1. The host leaving, or any other that makes the game reload:  For example, I'm playing as Gara, and I loaded my Splinter Storm. Well, whenever the game reloads I need to stack all that damage up again. It's really annoying. Also, you have a chance to die even if you can't see anything, your loading screen might still be running but your frame is already in game which gives you an unexpected and annoying death.

2. You shouldn't have to wait until the game ended to receive your rewards to the point where you survived. I think if you 'abort' your mission, you should be able to take your rewards with you until the mark where you died, there's no need to wait until the leftover team goes to extraction.

What if my warframe can survive abitration but is quite vulnerable to any health that one might lose due to this "financial stress"? What if I don't want to pick up these pickups because I know that I will die? Maybe the response is: get a better warframe. But then, don't suprised when you only see a Nidus and Inaros instead of where you can still find a Gara, Garuda or a Trin. 

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Posted (edited)

I thought the point of Arbitrations was "if you die, you're done." I mean, I hate being dead, but I kinda thought that was the challenge -- "don't have a momentary lapse in concentration."

If you're going to do the five token thing, though, they have to be intentional pickups - as in, you have to interact to pick them up. Automatic debuff pickups in the midst of a pile of enemies is a Bad Idea.

 

Also, it seems like you could have left Arbitrations as they were by coming up with a better way to handle host migration. Just sayin'.

Edited by Ham_Grenabe
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Posted (edited)

The revives idea sounds ok, but it shouldnt be auto pickup as mentioned throughout this thread. You may need to restock your own health before picking them up and youd be out of luck doing so if they auto latch to you mid-fight.

10 minutes per round is still too long and too boring. Difficulty comes a distant second to boredom.

Edited by Zanchak
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This only makes it far harder for solo players without better rewards to compensate, and for the record I don't really do arbitration with a group because of Host Migration, that's it.

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1 hour ago, Ham_Grenabe said:

Also, it seems like you could have left Arbitrations as they were by coming up with a better way to handle host migration. Just sayin'.

That seems to be EXACTLY what they did!!
Host migration isn't just an issue in Arbitrations, and instead of working on THAT systemic problem that is hugely detrimental to Warframe, they decided to remove what was the whole premise of Arbitrations.
They didn't remove the longer wave times, or the other stuff that makes it boring and annoying instead of hard, they removed the whole point of the content, which was permadeath...

Stellar design.

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Way to completely miss the point DE. Permadeath was the sole interesting thing about arbitrations, one of their good points, and you're removing it.

The problem with arbitrations is the sheer tedium, they just take far too long for how little you're getting. 30 minutes to start getting remotely worthwhile rewards? What a joke.

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Posted (edited)

Love this update! More love for Arbitretions. But can we talk about those ospreys?
Could we get rid of the immunity to warframe abilities and damage... Make the ospreys give their allies 75% damage reduction, like Trinity? Reduced duration on crowd control, like many bosses in the game?

Would it be possible to pick up respawn points and drop them again? I also hope the points aren't affected by vacuum/fetch.

Really excited to see the cosmetics and what'll happen with archwing rivens 🙂

Edited by VampireMax
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Posted (edited)

Are you kidding? Permadeth consequences was literally the ONLY interesting thing about the game mode. Looks like I'm never doing a pub matchmaking arbitration again, because the last thing I need is a MR9 with unforma'd gear who just finished off the starchart spamming chat for a revive 3 minutes into the game. On top of that, the index point mechanic is a terrible idea because it's a permanent debuff that you can't get rid of unless you cash them in, after accidentally picking them up when you didn't want to pick it up in the first place.

This makes arbitrations worse, without fixing any of the community's complaints about the game mode. 

Also, yay more rivens! So glad you guys decided to expand on the single biggest source of toxicity in the game. More chances for people to be riven snobs is exactly what the community needs.

Thanks DE, I hate it.

Edited by OmegaConstruct
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I couldn't care less about revives being a thing or not. but it's the insanely tedious and drawn out missions that are the killer. 10 minutes for a single reward just sucks super hard. I think I've only done about 7 runs of it because:

- It takes forever to get a single reward drop

- the no-fun annoying immortality shield drones exist

At the very least can you just get rid of the immortality drones? crank up their natural resistances or something just stop with invulnerable states. Exploiter orb proved that invulnerability isn't needed to make fights fun.

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Echoing what has been said in this thread already, the tediousness of Arbitration is why I avoid playing it. No other reason.

Same reason I avoid Defense missions whenever possible.

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My issue with Arbitrations is that they are not great for solo players. I usually play solo, and I don't mind the 1 death (though if I could bank the revive beacons in solo play that would be great), but the length does stink for solo play. Especially if the enemies are going to scale faster. I see that making the time investment more fun for groups, but it will make things much harder for solo play. I want a challenge, but not a Dark Souls level challenge.

I also like the suggestions I have seen above to make the drones buff the enemies, but not make then invincible. I have had issues with the drones clipping into the environment and therefor I get surrounded by invincible enemies. That's not challenge, that's a death trap.

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With the inclusion of Archgun Rivens placed onto the table, Will the Riven slots maximum capacity of 90 be further more increased?
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Please?.... xD

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7 hours ago, WeaselBoy said:

I don't like my drop tables diluted with one-time, non-tradable, cosmetic junk. These just turn into 2500 credit cache rewards after the first time.

I do however like Endo. Endo will always be useful. Either for maxing my own mods, or maxing duplicates to trade, endo is never a wasted resource. If you want DE to add other stuff to the reward structure, it should be added into the vitus redemption.

 

 

Then maybe have 5x vitus or something in there instead. But honestly I have more than enough endo for myself, and trading maxed mods is a pain. 90% of the time people back out and you just wasted thousands of endo. There are better ways to make plat. 

But I totally agree with you about the one-time nature of stuff. Octavia neuroptics has ruined ODS for me. Every freaking C rotation... without fail

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