Jump to content

Recommended Posts

Posted (edited)

Heya.

So dying permanently isnt an issue. I dont care about it. It makes it tense and far more fun.

The issues with arbitrations is that they feel so unrewarding to do. 10 minutes and 10 waves are not fun. They feel like they take sooooo long. Ive been making a table to see what the average time for each reward in each game mode is, as well as the difficulty of each faction, and Ive come t the conclusion that about 70% of all arbitrations are not worth doing.

I only play infested salvage (about 6:40 mins per reward) or infested excav (about 3:20 mins per reward. Grineer is also worth doing, but a loki is almost necessary and the corpus ones, due to nullifiers are a complete waste of time).

It seems like we got a good shake up of modes, but somewhere along the way, it  seems most arbitration's are defenses. They are unrewarding as heck.

Please, please fix this. The time issue is the biggest problem. Not prema death, not even scaling. Its the time.

EDIT: I also wanted to add my voice to the choir: Keep perma death. Its what made it fun. Please.

Edited by SupernovaSymphony
  • Like 1
  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Kratosthe1st said:

No one ever complained about revives on abbitrations, like seriosuly DE need to admit some of their ideas are just bad, Main issues with abbitrations 1.takes forever to get rewards 2.Drones are not a challenge but an annoyance 3.The bonuses they give are really not that useful, i mean who will use a dera when you can melee everything in 1 sec. Last but not least takes forever to get rewards which is just not worth it, you go 2 hrs you end up with 8 sculptures, like seriously which veteran wants all them damn sculptures

Also, this, point 2. Drones are not a challenge, they are an annoyance. Either cut the time in half to do the rewards or remove the drones

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)

This is change will put the final nail to the coffin for arbie. I will still solo with Inaros, less enemies, less drone, moreover, don't have to deal with accidentally picking up debuff to my health. Basically, this is not fixing. Primed disappointment 

Edited by (PS4)longlongnguyen
Primed disappointment
  • Like 3
  • Applause 1
  • Upvote 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I see no reason why arbitrations shouldn't be made much harder, just increase the rewards to offer incentive and by that I mean just bump up endo and kuva rewards, nothing else. These can't be done until you finish the solar system so why can't it be made into a tough challenge, lord knows we need something difficult in this game. Currently farming interception arbitration is easy as hell and you can stay in the mission as long as you want.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

^^ Rewards need to be better, harder content is always adaptable there are many things in game that you can use. It may be costly material like pads specters, cosmic specters, etc... but it can get the job done especially with full cp gas faction setups. You will own the map with that...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I’m happy to see you guys are taking steps to fix Arbis and trying to listen to play feed back but some mayor issues still stand. Two that come to mind are the invincible drones that just creates artificial  difficulty which limits what frames most players bring (eg inaros, chroma, nidus) since they are afraid of getting bum rushed by an invincible horde. Second are the long reward times of ten minutes. 5 would work just well with the sacrifice being the enemies are much higher lvls.  Atm arbitration’s feel like a chore and just like kuva farming get boring when it is same stuff different day.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I have a feeling that after this "change" they are gonna forget about arbritrations for a year or more before they go like oh we need to change it again 🤔

  • Haha 1
  • Applause 1
  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I disagree with the OP.

I don't play them all that often, but that's not because I dislike them, more because there are other things that take priority, e.g. Fissures for the reactants right now.

 

The changes sound interesting, but I want to play it first before forming an opinion.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Zilchy said:

I see no reason why arbitrations shouldn't be made much harder, just increase the rewards to offer incentive and by that I mean just bump up endo and kuva rewards, nothing else. These can't be done until you finish the solar system so why can't it be made into a tough challenge, lord knows we need something difficult in this game. Currently farming interception arbitration is easy as hell and you can stay in the mission as long as you want.

*shrug* My guess is that because it's barely played they are trying to get more people into it.
DE isn't trying to make it easier, they are trying to make it more accessible because it's pretty much not played at all.

I'm fine with it as it is. A mode made for the 1% (figure of speech) that only gets played by the 1% (figure of speech)...*shrug* what else did DE expect?
Player engagement was destined to be nigh non-existent. I can count on no hands how many times my friends ask or desire to play Arbitrations.

DE was fully aware when making it that only an extremely small minority of the community would be interested in it. Well, that's who plays it.
I play it from time to time but meh...I tend to like having "fun" in my games. Arbitrations are what I call: "Tedious for the sake of being tedious."
Like in JRPGs when boss fights require you to poison/zombie yourself & etc.

That said, I'm fine with them doe remaining hard, hell the suggestion I made would actually make it even harder tbh.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, (PS4)Zero_029 said:

*shrug* My guess is that because it's barely played they are trying to get more people into it.
DE isn't trying to make it easier, they are trying to make it more accessible because it's pretty much not played at all.

I'm fine with it as it is. A mode made for the 1% (figure of speech) that only gets played by the 1% (figure of speech)...*shrug* what else did DE expect?
Player engagement was destined to be nigh non-existent. I can count on no hands how many times my friends ask or desire to play Arbitrations.

DE was fully aware when making it that only an extremely small minority of the community would be interested in it. Well, that's who plays it.
I play it from time to time but meh...I tend to like having "fun" in my games. Arbitrations are what I call: "Tedious for the sake of being tedious."
Like in JRPGs when boss fights require you to poison/zombie yourself & etc.

That said, I'm fine with them doe remaining hard, hell the suggestion I made would actually make it even harder tbh.

I would also prefer it to be harder but I agree they don't get played much. I have no use for endo, pretty much the first day it came out I was running 3-4 hour missions for the mods and enough vitus essence and I haven't touched it since. I may need to do so to build all the ephemeras now but other than that there's no real reason for me to play it. There's no challenge in the missions and no incentive, I can actually spend less time in an endless fissure for far better gains and a higher difficulty curve, even though challenge in WF is pretty much non-existant.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, Zilchy said:

I would also prefer it to be harder but I agree they don't get played much. I have no use for endo, pretty much the first day it came out I was running 3-4 hour missions for the mods and enough vitus essence and I haven't touched it since. I may need to do so to build all the ephemeras now but other than that there's no real reason for me to play it. There's no challenge in the missions and no incentive, I can actually spend less time in an endless fissure for far better gains and a higher difficulty curve, even though challenge in WF is pretty much non-existant.

That endo remark is 1 thing that really grinds my gears with DE's reward table. That and Ayatan Treasures make me want to scream (in the bad way) when I play Arbitrations.
Why is Kuva not more prevalent as a reward for late game content? Siphons & Floods are poorly designed & it's why players really detest playing them.
I once in feedback posted a huge breakdown of a concept for Kuva Fortress to reworked.
Essentially it made it the top spot for Kuva; Kuva Defense, Kuva Interception, Kuva Excavation, Kuva Survival, etc.

Kuva, Legendary Cores are barely used. Hard/Intended to be Hard content like Arbitrations should reward these things more so than the same things everything else rewards.

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Цитата

 

Now, I fully agree that the reward intervals in Arbitrations are too far between and are in dire need of tweaking, but asking for straight buffs to reward tables from DE is never as easy as it seems. Us vets have seen this song and dance before, most notably when we could finally have more than just 1 reward from endless missions that weren't survival. When that change went live we rejoiced that we could keep our hard earned loot, but didn't notice at first that the reward rotation went from "ABC" to "AABC" and the drop rates for the good stuff had been somewhat lowered.

What I'm saying is DE never gives reward buffs without taking something else away. If we get better intervals prepare to see the table get crapified.

 

See the little problem is.

Theres' no rewards.

None.

This above what rewards look like. Trash endo you can easily get in 10 other mission types or sculptures without stars arent rewards. And neither are archgun rivens no one wants and that they keep nerfing every month.

Thats not rewards, Its a waste of breath and time.

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)

Earned revives, archgun rivens, these neither fix what is wrong with arbitrations, nor make me want to play them as a game mode. In their current form arbitrations are long and boring missions that do not feel rewarding at all.

I'm sure all of this has been said a million times in this thread already but here are some things that would get me interested in arbitrations:

  • Faster reward rotations and more risk: Rather than having to slog through bland gameplay in twice as long reward rotations, change the reward rotations to normal 5 min/5 wave/etc. and have some form of a reward multiplier attached to push people to go for longer runs.
  • Introduce more enemy variety and rework drones: More enemy variety to make things interesting, special enemies, minibosses or bosses instead of things that make the gameplay less fun (invulnerability drones). Add more difficulty the longer the mission is going on, but compensate this with extra rewards -> more risk, more reward.
  • Rather than simply giving +300% ability strength buff to a random warframe, why not add a few more different mutators that are aimed to increase warframe viability for frames that are currently deemed too risky/squishy to bring to arbitrations.

With some effort I think arbitrations could be a very fun endgame activity, but it's going require a lot more changes than simply adding in a revive system or riven rewards.

Edited by Ayarai
  • Like 3
  • Applause 1
  • Upvote 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 2019-04-18 at 7:04 PM, [DE]Connor said:

When these changes go live next week on PC (and consoles in the near future)

 

listen to the community on this one.

Spoiler

 

hold off on this one. take the advice.
  • Like 1
  • Upvote 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm not playing arbitrations very frequently because:

  1. It's rare to find people who want to stay for more than 2 rounds (mind you, that's already 20-ish minute mark). Recruiting a group is too much of a commitment for this activity though. If you never get to rotation C, what's the point? Oh right, I could solo, but that isn't quite as fun. If the rotations were a little shorter, things may be a bit different.
  2. It's not very encouraging to try out different frames, because when you make a mistake and die, you need to wait 1h before you can adjust your strategy and try again. I don't have the whole day to play Warframe. This means I always end up taking Broberon (bonus point - your teammates get more than 1 life), which gets old after a while.
  3. With Chorewave currently in place, there's no time left for me to do all the interesting stuff I want to do. Arbies currently aren't at the top of my "interesting stuff" list.

I don't see how the changes would address any of these points. If anything, even fewer people will want to stay longer, because of increased enemy scaling. 

Side note: I'm happy with the current time:reward ratio, cause I play for fun.

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)

id love arbis for perma death what i hate is 1-no shield gating for squishy frames 2-drawn out missions 3-tash level rewards 4-drons that give enemies invincibility and hide around the corner 5- enemies scaling is even slower than nightmare mode like why

Edited by IronKing24
  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
On 2019-04-18 at 3:23 PM, KirukaChan said:

Near as I can tell, these changes will make Arbitrations easier for teams, and harder for solo players.

Yeah, no thanks.

This right here. All this change does for me is make arbitrations more tedious. Thanks for nothing, I guess.

Between this and the multiple Nightwave challenges for doing missions with a friend or clanmate, it feels a lot like almost-entirely solo players like myself are being ignored frequently. Hopefully I'm wrong, but that's what it feels like.

Edited by Frostyinferno
additional comment
  • Like 1
  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I can already see this being a common occurrence.

p1)I died revive me

p1)Revive me

p1)Revive me

p1) some swear words

p2) you suck, your gear suck

p3) how about no, your a burden to the team stay dead

p1) Im the host ill leave

p2-4 blame p1 for dying while trying to revive him or just picking up the new orb/tags by accident resulting in death.

 

  • Upvote 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Il y a 2 heures, Kontrollo a dit :

btw:

  Révéler le contenu masqué

chMLkGZ.png

 

I just want to tackle this point a bit more because it warrants to be expanded. 

The most core problem with Warframe in general is that basically most of the time the development cooks up some neat ideas, threws them out, and uses rewards as bait. 

What i mean by that is there is no direction to create repeatedly enjoyable content that you can play regardless of drops. Its is a huge problem, and it's apparent in the player retention data. 

The focus is always to create the next shiny bait to give life to bith old and new stuff. It is a huge problem, because it seeped into the community mindset as well. 

The issue at hand could be a bit less of a problem if only DE were to create something akin to the kuva resource sink and focus on the gameplay loop. DE as a long term live service with a mountain worth of content has a very wide variety of player types. Currently the game is only geared towards a specific subset. 

And it tries way too hard on accessibility. I mean, arbitration was supposed to be an endgame mission. It isn't. Not by a long shot. 

Imo DE should really bunker down and decide what to do with the content they have. If something if for casual, or newer players, make it so. If something is for veterans, make it so. Don't be afraid to recognise progression. The rewards conundrum will solve itself if you create a fun and engaging gameplay loop. 

  • Like 1
  • Applause 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You know, I keep hearing about challange being decreased in Arbitrations, but the line if the Workshop that really hooked me into those changes was this

Quote

Permadeath also caused issues with host migration, since a dead host may be inclined to leave early, potentially throwing squadmates into disarray.

If the host has a chance to be revived, he wont leave and cause the squad to be disbanded at wrost.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)

So... you guys just took survival station and put it in players death spot and use index charge mechanics to activate it. Come on... create something that make sense... like void portal instead of that station... don't just copy and paste other assets. Make it look like something unique... Right now it looks very fast-made (which probably is) But, whatever... It doesn't fix the problems. Time investment : rewards ratio, diluted drop tables... and everything else your beloved players wrote.

I love you guys. You are like a family to me and i support you, but i can't hold up any longer.

You are asking your loyal players to keep playing same missions over, and over, and over again for 5 years. Sorties, Arbitrations, Nightwave. All of this is basically asking them to play repeatedly same missions. People are soon bored so they want play them as fast as possible. Blame them? No. Instead giving something new, you keep forcing them to keep playing those same missions. For example, to make players keep playing it you add new fancy cosmetic on C rotation with 1% drop chance, or some weapon parts. This is brutal... It's like saying "Oh, i think you guys are done and bored with this mode. Here! New cosmetic on C rotation, have fun guys! We know most of you are obsessed with collecting everything. Keep going, keep going".

And about those changes. Like someone wrote before, it seems like you're afraid to draw the line separating casual players from veterans. Afraid to say "Dear player, you are not ready yet to play this mode". New players have tons of things to do. Not every new thing must be appealing to them.

You guys have all the feedback you want. So many pages. Let's see what you do with it.

Edited by Sebith
  • Upvote 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Autongnosis said:

I just want to tackle this point a bit more because it warrants to be expanded. 

The most core problem with Warframe in general is that basically most of the time the development cooks up some neat ideas, threws them out, and uses rewards as bait. 

What i mean by that is there is no direction to create repeatedly enjoyable content that you can play regardless of drops. Its is a huge problem, and it's apparent in the player retention data. 

The focus is always to create the next shiny bait to give life to bith old and new stuff. It is a huge problem, because it seeped into the community mindset as well. 

The issue at hand could be a bit less of a problem if only DE were to create something akin to the kuva resource sink and focus on the gameplay loop. DE as a long term live service with a mountain worth of content has a very wide variety of player types. Currently the game is only geared towards a specific subset. 

And it tries way too hard on accessibility. I mean, arbitration was supposed to be an endgame mission. It isn't. Not by a long shot. 

Imo DE should really bunker down and decide what to do with the content they have. If something if for casual, or newer players, make it so. If something is for veterans, make it so. Don't be afraid to recognise progression. The rewards conundrum will solve itself if you create a fun and engaging gameplay loop. 

Just to be clear:

I think rewards are important. But they shouldn't be the be-all-end-all. The gameplay must be good in the first place, and then it needs some things that are at least a bit desirable, otherwise it wouldn't be able to compete for our time in this game. And that's simply not the impression I had from the OP.

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.

×
×
  • Create New...