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Defense and survival missions are SLOW AS FAK compared to the other mission modes. It's so boring. Please adjust them :V

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I think the biggest concerns about Arbitration are that it feels unrewarding, and that it promotes a lack of team work in playing. I don't think these changes address these issues.

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My main problem is not perma death, thats fine, unique and sudden, its the time, It just takes way too long to get to where you can start earning what you want.
And lets be honest, with our loadouts its hardly a challenge, the only challenge is boredom with the time it takes, its the only reason I dont do arbitrations.

It takes half an HOUR to get to rotation C for arbitration survival....

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Posted (edited)

This is such a bad solution... so you are gonna force the capable players to get debuffed to revive the player that is not up to the task and therefore died? You know those litte pellets are hard to see so the capable players are gonna be picking them up anyway, and even it they werent, its gonna be really really bothersome to play while at the same time trying to dodge them to not get debuffed. So yeah, this just makes thing worse for the capable players.

Since the key bad element is players being forcibly debuffed, you should change it to: players get the pellets but without debuff, then if and only if they choose to revive the dead player, they get the debuff for like 1 minute or something.

Still I dont like this whole new system, since it doent adress the problem of host migrations, which is the main problem that usually happens when host dies.

Edited by -Anumbra-
changed time from 2 to 1 minute, since we dont want to feel like reving is such a big punishment, right?
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Some gamemodes need to be changed, most of them are a waste of time except excavation and interception, 10 minutes in survival for one reward is way too long.

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the only thing i dont like about arbitations is how long it takes to do a rotation, 10 minute survival is just a no no

and the drones are so tiny, its really hard to hit them with anything but arca plasmor 

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Posted (edited)
4 minutes ago, -Anumbra- said:

This is such a bad solution... so you are gonna force the capable players to get debuffed to revive the player that is not up to the task and therefore died? You know those litte pellets are hard to see so the capable players are gonna be picking them up anyway, and even it they werent, its gonna be really really bothersome to play while at the same time trying to dodge them to not get debuffed. So yeah, this just makes thing worse for the capable players.

i gotta agree with that, still way better than before.

 

2 minutes ago, vid23 said:

the only thing i dont like about arbitations is how long it takes to do a rotation, 10 minute survival is just a no no

 

the rewards are way too good to be earn in 5 minutes, but i agree they are not good enough to be worth 10 minutes.

Edited by JeyciKon

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Just now, vid23 said:

and the drones are so tiny, its really hard to hit them with anything but arca plasmor 

it's really not hard to hit them at all, we're just not used to having to aim in WF because everything is "press one button and AoE nuke clear the map". 

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Thats just kinda make it worse, and it wont stop the host migration.

and now the host have priviledge "If you all dont revive me i trigger host migration" kinda feel.

I mean the point of arbitration is the one life thing, now capable player must carry the ones who bring bad gear? wow

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1 hour ago, Tromeo said:

Archgun riven gonna end up into one blip riven in 9 month like kitgun🤣 why bother?

yes this.. we put all of effort into rivens and they all get nerfed.. so why bother is correct.. When DE did the last nerf on the kitguns and others I just stopped Kuva chasing and riven rolling as there is no point in spending a ton of time and plat to see it all washed away during the "equalising" of rivens.. which is total bs btw..like I see Lecta is a 1 pip .. yet I hardly ever see it in the game.. go figure  and arbiduration just take to long to do waves and get boring after the first 10 games 🙂

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I feel like this misses the mark. It doesn't hit the issues that make arbitration boring. It touches upon a few things like levels increasing faster which is nice. But this revive mechanic already has the issue of what happens if the player isn't patient and leaves? I feel like this would be better delivered to make revives a currency rather than a trade. If you can pre-preemptively gather one revive atleast and use it as you see fit then it might stand a chance of accomplish it's goal. But as it stands now going through an ordeal to revive someone that may very well die again shortly after due to being in the middle of a S#&$ fest seems silly.

Drones still strip warframe down and turn it into a generic shooter and create situations with invulnerable enemies that can potentially body block the drones making these situations worse. I understand that you didn't want people to just peace maker the pack down but come on. Making it a case of just face diving into a crowd to pop a drone (especially when you can have 3-4 four drones making a pack invulnerable at once.) is just terrible. For all the talk about how CC has fallen off the map why not experiment with letting CC work in these situations. Or re purpose the drones to give varied buffs to enemies. 

As it stands now the mechanics that remove warframe abilities don't add a layer of challenge they just hurt the game and strip it of it's identity without adding anything meaningful in it's place. The wolf is the perfect example of this. It's a bullet sponge that essentially invulnerable to every utility the player has at their disposal that forces players to look for the tiniest cracks/ edge cases you missed just to get some semblance of the gameplay we enjoy.  

Tusk thumpers are a far better example of difficulty done right in warfame and I'd much rather you take it's design philosphies and better apply them to these kind of redesigns as of right now this isn't enough make arbitrations worth doing. They are still a huge time sink that devolve the game. 

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2 hours ago, [DE]Connor said:

Hail Tenno.

Your path has led here. Prove yourself.

Instant death still invalidates quite a few Warframe passives and augments, should just keep the revive state and if they're not picked up, give them perma-death on top of this new  Resurgence system. You could even halve the time given to pick someone up.

Beyond this, the main reasons I don't play Arbitrations as a veteran are the drones being fully immune to proc DoT damage/all abilities, and the reward intervals are twice the normal amount.

I'll never support full immunity to every ability, it's just lazy artificial difficulty. Titania for example is unplayable in Arbitrations, because outside of Razorwing she dies instantly, yet the drones are immune to her Exalted weapons. Even giving them 99% DR to abilities/CC instead would make a huge difference.

While the reward intervals just give the feeling of not making much progress. I'd take making Arbitrations even harder (not artificially) for the reward intervals to be the same amount as now, but at the normal five waves/minutes as the rest of the game.

This is an aside, but until air combos are put in, the drones are also awful to face for melee players.

If the only way to play Arbitrations will just be with AoE weapons on top of a tank frame, then I'll just keep avoiding it.
Not my play-style.

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Since we're looking at end game modes, I hope this means we're getting AABCCCCCCC in SO/ESO too, and something done about people joining the mode just to leech weapon xp and leave at waves 1-3.  SO/ESO could really use the attention.

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Never minded the "one life" scenario. I really don't feel like this was needed.

 

What i rather had, is a balance of time invested. To get to rotation A in defense it usually takes 20 minutes, while in survival i can progress much faster. The double rotation i feel, it's a pointless time sink in some mission types, and need some kinda of balance between them.

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While this is a nice change to see, I happen to be the wrong change. Permadeath is something new and a great change that's fine. The problem is the fact that unless in Interception or Excavation arbitration is pointless to play. Defense while it takes 10 waves to see a reward the waves take forever and makes the mode pointless. Survival is the same way but 10 minutes isn't as bad but still garbage. While Interception doesn't take as long as the other you can pull rewards faster than the other two mission types. And Excavation being the best of them all with only 2 excavators needed for a reward and if you have a smart team that can split rotation rewards come at a quick pace while other modes take days. 

 

Defense needs its waves dropped down to 5 waves or keep it at 10 but have all the enemy's spawn at once so the waves go by at a reasonable rate. And Survival I have no ideas on how to make it better besides 5m waves. 

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Posted (edited)

My main concern as a solo player is that these missions will be harder for no apparent gain, since there will be no reviving happening at all.

As far as I'm concerned having the burden to revive teammates is even more reason to not play in a group.

Edited by Devz1
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Posted (edited)

I feel as if the single death part wasn't the issue since it kept you on your toes. This also opens the door for toxicity since there will always be that one person that screams at you to revive them when they die every other minute.

For me, the issues regarding Arbitrations was the pacing. Survival and excavation have a set pace for rotations, however defense and (to an extent) interception's pacing is all over the place. For example: an hour of excavation could give you 12 rewards, but in that same hour you might only manage to get to wave 30 due to a S#&$ map/squad and only get 3 rewards despite the same amount of time (and albeit probably a lot more effort) put in.

Edited by FrostyNovaPrime
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Posted (edited)

Yeah no, not liking the sound of this Revival system, it sounds ripe for griefing and trolling the same way Index is. Downed squadmate does not want to be revived but decides to hang around with the death screen? Or lets themselves be repeatedly downed for laughs? You're stuck carrying these Burdens, it sounds like, and forced to extract. Have an uneven number of Burdens between remaining team members and one refuses to chip in? Stuck carrying Burdens until you or other more coordinated squadmates get the needed amount. Better hope everyone's wearing tanks, I suppose, to counter the debuffs. I'm reminded pointedly of Rhino trolls in the Index carrying a solar-system's worth of Index points and never caring to damn well bank them so the round can end (and then leaving before the following round, taking all of those points with them). After reviving a player, what happens to the excess Burdens, spread across multiple squadmates? Are we stuck with them until we can bank them when someone else dies? Do they disappear? This system does not sound like it has been tested with intent to earn a reward. I implore the team to test this system with an intentional griefer to see how easily this system can be gamed by someone who's only interest is to game the mission against you.

On top of this? These changes unfairly punish solo players. Arbitration is a slog enough as it is with a squad, solo it's painful and largely not worth the trouble. Faster level scaling with rewards still gated behind 10 minutes is ridiculous (not that it wasn't already). A revival system isn't going to encourage people to play more Arbitrations, it doesn't make playing Arbitrations more rewarding to play, not when you can go 40 minutes and wind up with nothing but Endo for your troubles.

Permadeath is a deterrent in Arbitration only because of the 10 minute gating for any kind of reward (some of them awful). You're not encouraged to try again; 10 minutes for one reward is a massive time sink in comparison to nearly every other mission type save for boss fights. If I only have 60 minutes, I'm not going to spend any of that in Arbies.

Also, DE, please stop with the Rivens, they exacerbate the game's problems with Power Creep. CC frames are already floundering thanks to the game's continuing shift to favouring DPS as the primary form of CC. You're afraid to give us decent damage numbers as a baseline in a game that is increasingly reliant on those numbers (often provided by only a very small selection of weapons), but you're willing to let RNG bestow crazy stats by chance (and then nerf them). Please make up your mind on what it is we can or can't have.

Edited by (PS4)Maunstre
Adding extra thoughts.
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Posted (edited)

Since you're focusing on team revives in arbitration what about solo? Why make it a tower that needs charges instead of revive tokens(lives) that can be earned in an arcade kinda style or respawn timer and collect from enemies to boost respawn timer (like jailers from fortuna bounty)  killing those hexis drones makes timer quicker. To me the true end game is Elite sanctuary onslaught, its quick and the timer thing keeps making me fail at zone 4 because I'm trying to use a non nuking frame because the changes and updates we are receiving are suppose to be ideal of balance and ability to do everything in any setting with any frame but with a 321% power chroma I can't seem to keep the timer up to get to zone 8 unless others are with me and I stop soloing everything.

Edited by (PS4)Killerworld
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Archgun Rivens. Nice. BUT WHERE AM i GOING TO PUT THEM?

I've been at cap from my own legitimate gains for ages. Rivens from Sorties are almost always worth less than another Anasa because I inevitably have to melt them down for a handful of Endo so I am allowed to run the next Sortie.

The more weapons, and the more types of rivens you add in, the more agonisingly diluted our crippled capacity is.

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Don't know if you are open to feedback, but any hope of normalizing rewards across mission types?

Cool that the mode holds at rotation C rewards.  Sucks that is takes 30 minutes to get there on survival and like half that for excavation/interception and some defense.  

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I dislike how you can revive people now, this was supposed to be a type of missions where players would have to work on ways not to die in the first place. This also doesn't fix host migrations, isn't it just going around the actual problem?

Dying is not fun, but everything easy isn't fun either in my opinion. 😕

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