Arbitrations Revisited

[(XBOX)COA Altair]

The problem with arbitrations isn't permadeath and host migrations, it's that they take forever and the rewards aren't good for the people who can stay there long because you're getting basically piles of endo and there's one useful mod you can sell for platinum (adaptation) out of them.  Seriously, need good rewards to make people want to play a game mode.  

Scaling the enemies faster you mean?  Like in normal missions where at wave 80 on defense you're facing enemies under level 500 and at wave 90 they're more then double that level?  Yeah, that sounds grand when the enemies start at such a high level in arbitrations /sarcasm.

[xXDeadsinxX]

4 hours ago, (XB1)Skippy575 said:

I'd rather see the weapon damage increased on arch-guns TBH. Especially in atmosphere mode. All this is doing is putting a band-aid over how much measly damage they do compared to primary guns.

Agreed. The whole riven system as a whole is a band-aid, which is rather unfortunate to say the least since they could’ve just buffed up the weapons instead of adding the system into the game.

[(PSN)GEN-Son_17]

5 minutes ago, ryugichan said:

Great changes i have a couple suggestions 
1) Arbitrations 300% power strength buff should change to something like 100% buff to all the stats maybe something like +100% buff to power ; range and duration. bacause honestly not all warframes need the 300% power strength buff.
2) Rewards intervals and rotation it would be better in my opinion to have 5 waves / 5 minutes with AABBCCCCC... rotation
3) Arbitrations drone design is there to limit the use of frames that have great aoe clear / damage ; i think instead it could be better to have the drones give ennemies a 90% damage reduction and Cc resistance for exemple a 5 secs blind would only be active for half the duration. this will limit the warframe abilities instead of having them being useless.

thank you

Excellent suggestions! I especially love the damage reduction/duration reduction of the drones. 

[Acersecomic]

Rotations should be 5 wave/minute etc.... like normal missions are. That's is the only reason I am not playing Arbitrations. Because of double time.

[exturkconner]

I think the idea of increasing the scaling factor of difficult in arbitration is super. I think the idea of a revive collection is fine. It allows clans to carry a member if they so desire and I think that's fine. I think new cosmetic rewards are super. 

However if the big draw is going to be another type of riven mod. When we are already limited to way less rivens than weapons types in this game I think that sucks.

I mean we have also been told sentinel weapons are going to be brought back into the fold at some point. 

With all of these additional riven types and the sheer number of weapons in the game (last I checked there are over 90 secondaries alone and that's not including lato prime and the exalted secondaries.) It puts players who like rivens in a bad spot. Where now we have to pick and choose. That's not fun. Having to get rid of a riven that makes a bad weapon playable in favor of a riven that makes a good gun better sucks and it's decisions we've all had to make. This is just going to make this worse. Much worse. Can we please get an increase in riven capacity? I get that you have concern but if you don't believe the game servers can handle unlimited rivens than perhaps adding more riven types that we can't access doesn't have much value? 

For example as of me writing this I'm already at capacity. I have had to dissolve three rivens in the last two weeks because I was over capacity. I had been saving a bunch of melee rivens in hopes that the melee rework would bring those weapons up. But I couldn't do my sorties any longer and doing those sorties is one of the few things that keeps me playing. So I dissolved them. 

So for me playing a new game more for rivens rewards I cannot use has virtually no appeal. I am sure I am not along in this.

[Nazzami]

Rather of had the bleedout timer but longer duration before a perm death rather then have the worst part of index added to a game mode with No Fun drones running around making everything immortal.

[Nitro747]

For me the biggest issue with arbitrations is: they are just the SAME missions we've always been playing over and over and over again since day one. It's just so damn boring.

[Ceroneous]

As a player who plays arbitration daily here is my feedback for this mode, and imo a few things should change.

1. Removes drones and replace them with Newly designed Unique enemies 

This promotes Warframe/Weapon variety because the average player in arbitration that can go 30mins and above in random queue are running tank warframes with guns like Arca Plasmor. Unique enemies that are already present in game that can be threatening include Nox's, Bursas,etc. Why not add onto that concept by designing a few new ones?

2. Set rewards at 5 waves or 5 minutes

I don't mind running an arbitration mission for an hour, but rewards are lackluster when they are spaced to far in between. Often times I find myself watching the clock, it's a frustrating experience and makes me feel like there is nothing to really do. 

Also Permadeath is not a problem imo.

[ValariusXT]

Just rethink the changes and don't roll.it out just yet. CONSIDER what most people here are saying. NO ONE WANT'S REVIVE, SHORTEN ROTATION, REMOVE THE DRONES, how simple is that DE?? We don't need BABY PROOFING!

[(PSN)solartorch81]

I think DE is totally out of touch with the player base. Revive is not the main issue with arbitration, we do not want apex. While revive lessen the problem of host migration(HM) , HM is a warframe problem. HM should be fixed for good of whole warframe and not side step in arbitration. 

 

The 2 main issue is arbitration is too long and drawn out. We want shorter rotation but faster level scaling. 

The arbitration drone mechanics restrict certain weapon and to a lesser extend frame to be use. Invincible enemies is not fun and the same mistake is being make with the wolf pack.

[Ulseth]

Not only does this not seem to resolve the issue some people have been mentioning here, with arbitrations not being rewarding enough for them or taking too long per reward, but it also introduces issues that currently don't exist.

I think rewarding people that die with free revivals is a bad idea, they don't even have to do anything to be revived.

You can just die, sit there, and if they don't revive you, they will have to deal with Index coins nerfing their health and shields.

You can't stop killing Arbitration drones, so you can't stop the index coins from spawning whenever someone dies and goes to make some coffee.

Couple this with the fact that you're going to make enemies level up faster (I'm assuming it's going to be double the current Arbitration leveling up rate) and it gets nasty quickly.

This is a really bad idea unless the surviving players can completely opt-out of the Index coin punishment. (even if it means giving up on dead players)

People'd basically have to completely give up on public/group Arbitrations and play in solo games exclusively if they're confident in their ability to survive (to avoid the index coin issue), and people that want to EXPLOIT other players would just have to join random public Arbitration lobbies and basically grief with this new mechanic.

This change will mark the end of public Arbitrations, they'll just become completely unplayable.

I'd rather just have the imperfect system as it currently is. Please don't make it worse.

Sorry if I come across as overly negative, I actually really appreciate how you guys keep adding more and more to the game, while also going back to older content to make it all better.

Hopefully someone can take something constructive away from this, if anyone even bothers to read it.

I realize that I could be completely wrong as well, so take what I say with a grain of salt, as I haven't played with this new mechanic yet.

[kaelvamp]

The game is 6 years old and still nerfing the """"end-game modes""" because of new players... nice. C'mon DE. Give older players the RESPECT and MERIT they want!.

Truth is warframe will be always a casual game and keep on cater to babies and players that dont want/care about any challenge.. and worst part is that those same casual players ask every day for nerfs on thins that they dont even use and "find OP" just because older players are having fun with it. that's the hard truth.

No wonder why warframe keeps always bleeding older players out.
this is just sad.

[SirTobe]

Cool to finally see new rewards in arbitration.

But seriously, can't you just try to fix the bad host migrations once and for all instead of working around it? I'm sure there are better ways to back up mission progress.

[Straxxes]

This update is gonna be a nice touch, giving players the ability to revive, but in a challenging way. As long as we can get one shoted by enemies, we need a way to get back in action to keep this system playable.That's the way to go for sure, thumbs up for that Finance Stress idea, no problem with that challenge either!

HOWEVER...

With all do respect... the "Vitus Shop" is as shallow as pool of muck in a pothole. The Archgun Rivens is a good direction, but can we just agree on that we should be able to purchase all Unveiled riven types for Vitus Essence at this point? I mean even if there is a limited purchase per day or week, but this "Sortie-Only-Riven" system cannot stay as it is. I mean there is almost 360 weapons in the game(including all iterations of weapons, but even without that, it's a mental number) and you have one shot every day to get a riven to drop, which then you have to roll to get the weapon what you are looking for.

Well the idea was that "it's fine, go to trade chat and trade your rivens to get the riven you want". Well I just leave that here for people who tried to judge how wonderfully that works. (trade chat is poisonous)

Sorties are in dire need of change to be honest, because with Arbitrations around, no-one appreciates an Ayatan Sculpture 7 days in a row (happens quite often) at this point.

Conclusion:

This update looks great, it has a good direction, just please push it a bit further to make it worth it's glory.

[ZetraThorn]

So if these are the only changes being added then it will make little to none difference in the end.

Thanks biggest issue with arbitrations is not permanent death. Its time to reward ratio. Ten minute survival is lengthy 10 waves in defence is a slog. Longer intervals do not make these missions harder they make them boring.

And I understand that 300% str buff is random but I've seen so much 300% str looking start to believe it is some kind of meme.

[jiminatorx]

to me the big problem with arbtrations are the huge investment of time for the rewards. As I see it there is an easy solution. Change the mission structures to be similar to the regular missions, where you get rewards twice as frequently. Change the drop rates for good stuff to be 1/2 of what they are. Change the endo drop rates to be twice as much but 1/2 the reward. The net results will be exactly the same but overall the greater frequency of rewards will make it feel much much more rewarding. Change the rotations to be AABBCCCC....

Example Rotation A:

1300 Endo    38% -> 650 Endo    76%
Ayatan Ayr Sculpture    18% -> 9%
Ayatan Sah Sculpture    18% -> 9%
Ayatan Valana Sculpture    18%-> 9%
Adaptation    2% -> 1%
Rolling Guard    2% -> 1%
Sharpshooter    2% -> 1%
Vigorous Swap    2% -> 1%

[LGear]

While the new changes sound nice, it's not really the permadeath that's a problem for most players when it comes to Arbitration, rather it's how tedious Arbitration feels compared to every other mission type due to how it takes twice as long for people to get rewards. Especially with enemies scaling normally once the above changes hit (and thus making Arbitrations even more dangerous the longer it goes), we shouldn't have to play 10 minutes per rotation just to get a reward. 

[LSG501]

I'm sorry but there is no reason that arbitrations should not have revives like everywhere else in the game so this half baked (I want to use a different word)  'fix' to the lack of revives isn't going to suddenly make players like me want to play it, if anything the fact that you're going to get some sort of hit, health most likely, isn't going to make me want to revive a player as I might die in the process... just give us 1 revive (press x type) per 5 rounds, which increase to a max of 5 if we don't use them, or something instead, still has risk of perma death but we don't have to risk dying ourselves to revive them. 

This fix still doesn't fix underlying issues with the game mode

• It isn't going to make it less monotonous.... it's the same thing over and over again
• Rewards are still just as poor as before, with the majority of rng being biased to endo/ayatan which also makes up the bulk of the rewards.  I personally have no need for this at the moment...
• rewards still take twice as long to get as normal, there is zero reason why it needs to take twice as long
• the drones will still annoy players, especially those that like titania where her guns don't work (unless they've fixed that) against it (I do wish DE would make their minds up if her guns use bullets or an 'exalted weapon' and then be consistent with that decision)
• rivens are already broken so you add them to another section of the game where the weapons are reasonably well balanced.... yep makes perfect sense when you've already been complaining about how quickly we kill stuff using them.... as others have said I'd rather see a buff to their damage than rivens for them.

Honestly the suggested change isn't going to make me want to play, I've hardly played the current arbitrations because of the above issues and this change is not likely to change that. 

edit: Actually thinking about it, this 'fix' kind of shows how detached the devs are from the game that us players play, it's all very well coming up with an idea that works well in the closed world of internal testing where you all communicate and do exactly as intended but that internal testing doesn't reflect what happens in the real game.. there usually isn't any communication and we're not going to risk dying ourselves to 'save' another player.  

Not to mention the dev's think that lack of revives is the most 'pressing issue' with arbitrations....

[Pancoar]

This is such a horrible idea. I like doing Arbitrations sometimes, but this makes me never want to do them again. 

I'm not going to debuff myself, or even worse accidentally walk into one of the tokens on the ground because someone died.

It's like you do't actually listen to what people wanted... Shorten rotations on defense/survival and drones to be less a nuisance, heck keep the increased level scaling of mobs if you do that... But I don't play Arbitrations to now have to worry about babysitting the person who died 5 minutes in and will continue to keep getting themselves killed and having to play "don't step on the tokens on the ground".

Oh well, I got the seeding step ephemera, and mods like adaptation + rolling guard and there are other options for Endo. Sucks for people who still need items from Arbitrations though...

[Caramello]

Everything must be made easy in this game -.-"

I wont be reviving anyone, so you better also implement a way to drop those tokens for those who pick them up by accident.

[operative-verona]

1. Removal of perma-death will expand the viable loadout options and Inaros won't be 80% of all players anymore. That's always good.
2. This system really needed new rewards. Thank you!

[XIDOS4TW]

6 hours ago, [DE]Connor said:

The most polarizing of these issues is Arbitrations’ lack of revives

This is just wrong, the lack of revives is completely okay. It adds to the challenge otherwise arbitrations would be just another survival type mission. Players' gripe with arbitrations is the duration between rotations i.e. the loot drops basically. If you deny players their loot drops, well, we all know what happened with Anthem

[owendawgx]

This wasn't even among the most pressing issues of the game mode though?

Half the frames in the game do almost nothing because frequently spawning drones just make their abilities do nothing, leading to the CLASSIC "buffing/tanky frames are the only ones that matter" meta. I want to use that 300% strength Mag, but literally none of her abilities work in the game mode, and killing drones either kills the enemies they were connected to, or lets you use your ability on like 4 dudes before another drone swoops in to take its place.

There HAS to be a better solution to making difficult content than locking our abilities away from us. I started playing for the cool abilities. I continued playing for the cool abilities and builds. I've stopped playing because my abilities stopped working in the content that matters to me. At least in raids, most frames COULD contribute something, arbitration/Eidolons/Orbs just says if your frame is supposed to interact with enemies it doesn't work.

We need multi-staged content like raids, but you have segments where CC frames shine, damage frames shine, buffing frames shine, tanky frames shine, and all members of the cast can at least do something unique and useful. 

Also this stuff takes like 40 minutes for a full rotation 😞 

[AutoCept]

My biggest issue with arbitrations isn't the revives (but I play solo so I'm largely uneffected both by this change and host migration), it's with arbitration drones. Specifically, the best part of arbitrations (random warframe/weapon buff) is largely rendered moot by them. Trying to kill a drone with anything other than an AoE weapon is just not worth the time spent, either from losing life support or as a risk to dying to enemies. Similarly, many warframes that would otherwise be fun to play with 300% strength are ruined by having no survival option other than CC/killing enemies with abilities, and drones shut that down. That means the 300% buffs are really only relevant to the warframes/weapons you would already be taking to arbitrations. 

Could you please consider letting the random warframe/weapon chosen for the buff bypass arbitration drone effects? This would actually give a reason to run random frames/weapons allow CC/damage frames to be relevant in arbitrations, at least part of the time.

[KaijuKraid]

I play a ton of Arbitrations. Get to around Wave 20/30 quite often in pubs. 

The biggest problem with Arbitrations isn't revives. They're nice to have if you make some changes (which I put a bit below), but that sometimes it's simply not worth doing the Arbitration shown. Defence (Non-Helene/Hydron Map), Defection and Survival are simply not worth as much as Interception or Excavation are. (No idea on Salvage.) 

Revival is a nice feature. However, it shouldn't be an auto pick up. I suggest it being a manual pick up, like an Ayatan Star. Have a big symbol showing also. Having Vacuum or Fetch will become super punishing if it's like the points in Index. If you ever play Khora in Index with Fetch, you know how far away you can pick up Index points without meaning/realizing it. 

The main problem with lack of revives is that Corpus can one shot you. It happens way too often to many people, experienced or not. One moment you exist and the next, you're wondering what hit you before you realize it was a Corpus Sniper hitting you both through your shield and your health and your computer screen. 

I do like the changes all around. Other people may have complaints about the length of a rotation. I can take it or leave it.