Why ? :(

[Lutesque]

So I caved and bought platinum again to increase my weapon Slots so I can keep the crappy weapons that are fun to use...

One such weapon is, Zakti... a Tenno Dart Gun that erupts in a plume of toxic gas...

This weapon is rubbish... its only saving grace is that the gas plume stuns enemies and opens them up to finishers. 

Heres the issue... This doesn't happen if the theres something else is affecting the enemies animation.... say... like Saryn's Miasma blinding them.... which I don't have issue with.... I mean I do but theres a much bigger problem.

This issue lies in the fact that this Weapon has Impact Damage. And Proccing Impact causes the Enemies to Stagger.... and this Stagger Animation prevents the Gas Plume from Triggering the Stun animation 😞

okay... This Weapon needs a Riven to lower the likely hood of Proccing Impact right ?

well apparently not... According to the wiki.... The Impac Procc is Guaranteed....

 

Why ? 😞

[(PSN)Hikuro-93]

Well, let us add it to the list of poop mechanics on weapons, right under Ballistica Prime and its enemy-alerting ghosts. There should be an award for who comes up with these mind-bending mechanics.

Edited April 18, 2019 by (PS4)Hikuro-93

[RolloDex]

Quite on the contrary, the Zakti is an absolute monster... if you use it right.

Its less of a weapon and more of a tool, and one of the most disgusting things you can do with it involves dual-wielding it with a Condition Overload Glaive. See, the Zakti is a tried and true status weapon, and the fact that is it capable of proccing two guaranteed effects on top of its other elementals, which, if you build it right, can be upwards of 90%, means that you’re in prime CD territory.

The Glaive itself just adds to this madness. It has a guaranteed slash proc on it’s charged throw, and again, building it right will put you in the upper 70s for status chance.

All this combines together to get a combination that at worst, gives you a 180% increase to your damage, and given that slash procs scale off of base damage, this quickly escalates into ridiculousness. The only thing that I’ve ever seen come close to kill times on Corrupted Bombards is the Redeemer Prime, another monster of a weapon that abuses the everliving hell out of CD. Once I get on I’ll update this post with screenshots of my builds, and if I can manage it, a short clip of the combo in action.

And just so you know, it’s the dart’s impact that opens them to finishers, not the gas cloud. I’ve never had issues with initiating one.

Builds:

Spoiler

Zakti:

Glaive Prime:

 

Edited April 18, 2019 by RolloDex
Updated with builds

[NinjaZeku]

20 minutes ago, Lutesque said:

Proccing Impact causes the Enemies to Stagger.... and this Stagger Animation prevents the Gas Plume from Triggering the Stun animation

How did you test this?

I just spawned some Bombards in the Simulacrum, shot them with Zakti,
and the Gas 'splosion allowed me to Finisher them just fine,
both for the ones I hit directly and the ones caught in the blast.

(Enemy AI wasn't paused, so that wasn't what allowed the Finishers.)

Edited April 18, 2019 by NinjaZeku

[Lutesque]

The reason why I want this weapon to work is because I have The Rakta Dark Dagger... yet another weapon with a Special Trait... it caps out your Overshields when performing Finishers on Radiated Enemies... and because I have Stinging Thorn and Weaping Wounds.... I can Use the Carving Spike Combo to stun Enemies and kill them with Finishers.... in The Simulacrum.... 

Yep.... this is highly impractical in actual combat which brings use to The Zakti.... 😞

19 minutes ago, RolloDex said:

Quite on the contrary, the Zakti is an absolute monster... if It Works

FIXED 😉

19 minutes ago, RolloDex said:

And just so you know, it’s the dart’s impact that opens them to finishers, not the gas cloud. I’ve never had issues with initiating one.

Im pretty sure its the Gas.... I know this because you can miss the enemy with the dart but hit them with the Gas Plume and still perform the finisher..... itworks the same way if you fire it into a Crowd.... The dart only hits one enemy and the Gas Hits multiple of them.... stunning them all (if it works)

16 minutes ago, NinjaZeku said:

How did you test this?

I just spawned some Bombards in the Simulacrum, shot them with Zakti,
and the Gas 'splosion allowed me to Finisher them just fine,
both for the ones I hit directly and the ones caught in the blast.

I did the same thing except I only spawne one Bombard... Unpaused and No Invincibility... I would Dodge the Homing Rockets... hit the Bombard with the Dart And Roll Forward Forward and Tap Melee Once.

From my Testing the Gas Cloud doesn't always erupt at the sane interval... the thing thats cause the stun to fail is when the Impact proc happes too late and overlaps with the Gas erupting.

The Melee Animatiin Bombards and Heavy Gunners perform is also Uninterruptable....

This isn't knew... You can out right Kill these enemies and still get knocked over by an invisible force.

 

Edited April 18, 2019 by Lutesque

[Loza03]

11 minutes ago, RolloDex said:

Quite on the contrary, the Zakti is an absolute monster... if you use it right.

Its less of a weapon and more of a tool, and one of the most disgusting things you can do with it involves dual-wielding it with a Condition Overload Glaive. See, the Zakti is a tried and true status weapon, and the fact that is it capable of proccing two guaranteed effects on top of its other elementals, which, if you build it right, can be upwards of 90%, means that you’re in prime CD territory.

The Glaive itself just adds to this madness. It has a guaranteed slash proc on it’s charged throw, and again, building it right will put you in the upper 70s for status chance.

All this combines together to get a combination that at worst, gives you a 180% increase to your damage, and given that slash procs scale off of base damage, this quickly escalates into ridiculousness. The only thing that I’ve ever seen come close to kill times on Corrupted Bombards is the Redeemer Prime, another monster of a weapon that abuses the everliving hell out of CD. Once I get on I’ll update this post with screenshots of my builds, and if I can manage it, a short clip of the combo in action.

And just so you know, it’s the dart’s impact that opens them to finishers, not the gas cloud. I’ve never had issues with initiating one.

I think we can go deeper. I used to run this, and the main weakness I noticed was the weakness to groups. It has roughly the same TTK on pretty much everything (great for beefy targets, less so for mooks) and only targets one or two enemies at a time. But I just tried something out in the Simulacrum and figured something out: Zakti's deals innate gas procs and has good status and deals this in a radius, so if you combine it with a corrosive build, a good barrage will have numerous gas and corrosive stacks on several targets. Toxin is reduced by armour (some...how?) but since corrosive deals with armour and since explosives can let the Gas proc on targets several times in a group, it can deal pretty great damage even against high-level heavies. Might not be amazing on a group of heavies, but that's not too common. Most of the time, groups will be mostly mooks, maybe with one or two heavies to fall prey to either that, or the Glaive toss.

This would probably reduce the TTK on the Glaive build a bit on REALLY heavy enemies (like, Raknoids), but probably not enough to really impact regular gameplay too much. I'd say it's a fair exchange for a solution the main drawback of the setup.

[CandyDragon]

Zakti falls into the pit of weapons that aren't technically bad if you build them properly, but are so functionally inadequate vs other raw damage weapons that their gimmick may as well be discarded for something easier to do. 

[RolloDex]

10 minutes ago, Loza03 said:

Zakti's deals innate gas procs and has good status and deals this in a radius, so if you combine it with a corrosive build, a good barrage will have numerous gas and corrosive stacks on several targets. Toxin is reduced by armour (some...how?) but since corrosive deals with armour and since explosives can let the Gas proc on targets several times in a group, it can deal pretty great damage even against high-level heavies.

This isn't a bad idea, another good way to deal with crowds is to simply detonate the Glaive. It clears groups and returns faster, fun for the whole family.

12 minutes ago, Loza03 said:

This would probably reduce the TTK on the Glaive build a bit on REALLY heavy enemies (like, Raknoids), but probably not enough to really impact regular gameplay too much. I'd say it's a fair exchange for a solution the main drawback of the setup.

BUT MUH DEEPS.

34 minutes ago, Lutesque said:

The reason why I want this weapon to work is because I have The Rakta Dark Dagger... yet another weapon with a Special Trait... it caps out your Overshields when performing Finishers on Radiated Enemies... and because I have Stinging Thorn and Weaping Wounds.... I can Use the Carving Spike Combo to stun Enemies and kill them with Finishers.... in The Simulacrum....  

Now I see your issue, you're using a dagger. 😛

26 minutes ago, Lutesque said:

Im pretty sure its the Gas.... I know this because you can miss the enemy with the dart but hit them with the Gas Plume and still perform the finisher..... itworks the same way if you fire it into a Crowd.... The dart only hits one enemy and the Gas Hits multiple of them.... stunning them all (if it works)

I stand corrected. I just tested it, and it is the gas cloud that procs the finisher state. However, upon repeated tests, I am still not having any trouble initiating it, UNLESS the Bombard is in his ground slam animation. I believe this works much like momentum does on heavy blades and makes them immune to finishers. In this case, wait for them to slam, hit them with the dart, and you should be good to go.

Tested with Hildryn, Zakti, Rakta Dark Dagger, and 1 level 100 Bombard. Invincibility off and AI on.

Builds:

Spoiler

Hildryn:

Zakti:

Rakta Dark Dagger:

 

[DatDarkOne]

25 minutes ago, Nariala said:

Zakti falls into the pit of weapons that aren't technically bad if you build them properly, but are so functionally inadequate vs other raw damage weapons that their gimmick may as well be discarded for something easier to do. 

Quite true.  A person is better off just using the Glaive or dagger by itselve with gas build to trigger the two procs for Condition Overload.  Less work for same effect.  

2 minutes ago, RolloDex said:

This isn't a bad idea, another good way to deal with crowds is to simply detonate the Glaive. It clears groups and returns faster, fun for the whole family.

BUT MUH DEEPS.

Now I see your issue, you're using a dagger. 😛

I stand corrected. I just tested it, and it is the gas cloud that procs the finisher state. However, upon repeated tests, I am still not having any trouble initiating it, UNLESS the Bombard is in his ground slam animation. I believe this works much like momentum does on heavy blades and makes them immune to finishers. In this case, wait for them to slam, hit them with the dart, and you should be good to go.

Tested with Hildryn, Zakti, Rakta Dark Dagger, and 1 level 100 Bombard. Invincibility off and AI on.

 

For your Rakta Dark Dagger, all you need are Stinging Thorns stance, Fury or Primed Fury, Covert Lethality, and the optional Gleaming Blight (for syndicate proc for energy).  The Stance Stinging Thorns will activate CL during the normal combo. So rarely will and enemy live through more than 3 hits regardless of lvl.  This works on all frames.  

[Loza03]

30 minutes ago, RolloDex said:

This isn't a bad idea, another good way to deal with crowds is to simply detonate the Glaive. It clears groups and returns faster, fun for the whole family.

But consider this - Zakti Darts on the floor in the way of a Nullifier with a bubble full of grunts.

35 minutes ago, RolloDex said:

BUT MUH DEEPS.

I'm reminded of that one Futurama Scene with Zoidberg in the Gym.

"Maybe you could hit more enemies with less deeps?"
"AAAGGGH!"

[RolloDex]

8 minutes ago, DatDarkOne said:

Quite true.  A person is better off just using the Glaive or dagger by itselve with gas build to trigger the two procs for Condition Overload.  Less work for same effect.  

Leave my stupid gimmick weapon alone ;~;

12 minutes ago, DatDarkOne said:

For your Rakta Dark Dagger, all you need are Stinging Thorns stance, Fury or Primed Fury, Covert Lethality, and the optional Gleaming Blight (for syndicate proc for energy).  The Stance Stinging Thorns will activate CL during the normal combo. So rarely will and enemy live through more than 3 hits regardless of lvl.  This works on all frames.  

Tell that to the boi who started this thread, I was just testing it with the Dark Dagger because it was what he was using.

[DatDarkOne]

12 minutes ago, RolloDex said:

Tell that to the boi who started this thread, I was just testing it with the Dark Dagger because it was what he was using.

Sorry about that.  I had multiple tabs opened and didn't realize I had confused you for the OP.  Goodness Gracious, I just realized who the OP is.  Damn.  

[Lutesque]

7 hours ago, RolloDex said:

 Now I see your issue, you're using a dagger

LoL... if it were up to me... I'd use a Sword. Gram Prime is cool 😄

7 hours ago, RolloDex said:

I stand corrected. I just tested it, and it is the gas cloud that procs the finisher state. However, upon repeated tests, I am still not having any trouble initiating it, UNLESS the Bombard is in his ground slam animation. I believe this works much like momentum does on heavy blades and makes them immune to finishers. In this case, wait for them to slam, hit them with the dart, and you should be good to go.

Tested with Hildryn, Zakti, Rakta Dark Dagger, and 1 level 100 Bombard. Invincibility off and AI on.

Cool.... So maybe I'l havw better luck with Trash Mobs...

Also one more... Why did they make Bombard's Explosions SUPER GIGANTIC ?... its Area of effect is huge and can blow through 3000 Shields no problem... This isn't good for Harrow.

7 hours ago, RolloDex said:

Builds:

  Hide contents

Hildryn:



Zakti:

Rakta Dark Dagger:

I want Jolt and Voltaic Strike so bad 😞

when is Tethra's Doom ? 

8 hours ago, Loza03 said:

It has roughly the same TTK on pretty much everything 

TTK ? Time To Kill ?

8 hours ago, Loza03 said:

Toxin is reduced by armour

Well yes... Isn't this Normal ?

7 hours ago, DatDarkOne said:

Quite true.  A person is better off just using the Glaive or dagger by itselve with gas build to trigger the two procs for Condition Overload.  Less work for same effect.  

I mean If im going to do that then I may aswel use a Rapier instead.... Rapiers are cool 😉

7 hours ago, DatDarkOne said:

For your Rakta Dark Dagger, all you need are Stinging Thorns stance, Fury or Primed Fury, Covert Lethality, and the optional Gleaming Blight (for syndicate proc for energy).  The Stance Stinging Thorns will activate CL during the normal combo. So rarely will and enemy live through more than 3 hits regardless of lvl.  This works on all frames.  

Actually some Tough Bastards take two combos to kill... also the Status Effect I want to Procc more than any other is Radiation.... so I frequently run this thing with Weeping Wounds on top of Condition Overload. 

7 hours ago, RolloDex said:

Tell that to the boi who started this thread, I was just testing it with the Dark Dagger because it was what he was using.

LoL... he thought you were me... 

6 hours ago, DatDarkOne said:

Sorry about that.  I had multiple tabs opened and didn't realize I had confused you for the OP.  Goodness Gracious, I just realized who the OP is.  Damn.  

Let the Darkness flow through you !!!

[Loza03]

4 hours ago, Lutesque said:

TTK ? Time To Kill ?

Yes

4 hours ago, Lutesque said:

Well yes... Isn't this Normal ?

Also yes. I was more questioning the in-universe logic about how metal plates strapped to you reducing how much damage you take from a poison already in your bloodstream.

[0_The_F00l]

4 hours ago, Loza03 said:

I was more questioning the in-universe logic about how metal plates strapped to you reducing how much damage you take from a poison already in your bloodstream.

I wonder this all the time. amongst other nonsensical things that dont quite make logical sense (within the framework and context of the game and its unique magics and technology)

[DatDarkOne]

4 hours ago, Loza03 said:

Also yes. I was more questioning the in-universe logic about how metal plates strapped to you reducing how much damage you take from a poison already in your bloodstream.

That's a very good point.  

[N5Code]

The zakti combos amazingly with a glaive with awesome DPS.

[Lutesque]

18 minutes ago, C0DE_ said:

The zakti combos amazingly with a glaive with awesome DPS.

Oh thanks for Reminding me... I need to update all my melee weapons with Primed Point Blank.

Edit... I mean Primed Pressure Point.

Edited April 20, 2019 by Lutesque

[taiiat]

yes, shooting Enemies directly with Zakti can apply Impact Status which will override them being opened for Finishers.
you can alleviate that by shooting the Terrain near Enemies since it is an AoE Weapon afterall, or double tapping foes, since the second Dart will ensure that they're opened for Finishers.
(which also makes Primed Magazine Warp a very tempting choice on Zakti, so that you can cover a wider area. possibly Fulmination too)

minor CC and opening Enemies to Finishers is literally what Zakti exists for, so ofcourse it doesn't deal 6digit Damage.
though, even so it still deals pretty decent Damage. especially when one considers the special math rules that innate Gas Weapons use vs non innate Gas Weapons.

 

on a side note, your Secondary Weapon can be quite useful for a Thrown Melee.
for example, i happened to have Zakti Equipped in this particular Mission, i felt like using it. and this is a worst case Damage scenario in the sense that the Enemies are resistant to basically all of my Damage Types.
:)

Edited April 20, 2019 by taiiat

[Lutesque]

13 minutes ago, taiiat said:

especially when one considers the special math rules that innate Gas Weapons use vs non innate Gas Weapons.

Wait... What rule ? : O

Oh BTW... Covert Lethality Doesn't Work on Saturn Six Fugitives.

Also it seems like when performing a finisher animation you can't proc Status Effects.

[taiiat]

9 minutes ago, Lutesque said:

Wait... What rule ? : O

• Oh BTW... Covert Lethality Doesn't Work on Saturn Six Fugitives.
• Also it seems like when performing a finisher animation you can't proc Status Effects.

innate Gas Weapons use the entire Gas Damage for the Toxin DoT, rather than only just the Toxin component if you were to add Gas to a Weapon via Mods.

• i'm not surprised if you can't perform Finishers on Fugitives. the Base Damage Multiplier would still work though, and Daggers are quite powerful Melee Weapons outside of Finishers.
• yes, you can't apply Status when performing a Combat or Stealth Finisher.

Edited April 20, 2019 by taiiat

[NinjaZeku]

3 hours ago, taiiat said:

innate Gas Weapons use the entire Gas Damage for the Toxin DoT, rather than only just the Toxin component if you were to add Gas to a Weapon via Mods.

What's your source on this?

In the Simulacrum, it made no difference whether I had Primed Heated Charge or not on my Gas Zakti, same Toxin DOT strength.

And replacing Pathogen Rounds with PHC was a severe damage loss on those DOTs.

[taiiat]

8 hours ago, NinjaZeku said:

What's your source on this?

can be seen clearly - the Toxin DoT matches being taken from the full innate Gas Damage. so you'd see that the Toxin DoT will base from the full 80 innate Gas, rather than only a portion of it by Mods, as other Weapons would end up with.
it's kinda neat, but you'd probably take advantage of it via Damage buffing Abilities and forcing Crits, Et Cetera.

(it'd be a lot more impressive if we got a Sniper Rifle with innate Gas, hehe)

[DeckChairVonBananaCamel]

On 2019-04-19 at 8:10 AM, RolloDex said:

All this combines together to get a combination that at worst, gives you a 180% increase to your damage, -

nah my dude, the buff increases are all calculated separately. 

so 3 procs don't take it to +180% with the formula: finaldmg = moddeddmg x (1 + (0.6 x procs))

3 procs would instead take you to +309% with the fomula: finaldmg = moddeddmg x 1.6^procs

It's exponential growth per proc, and it is fantastic!!!

Edit: Also blast counts as 2 procs for some reason... 😉

Edited April 21, 2019 by DeckChairVonBananaCamel

[RolloDex]

2 hours ago, DeckChairVonBananaCamel said:

3 procs would instead take you to +309% with the fomula

:0

Well now, that throws my calculations for theoretical damage out the window. Hot damn.

[DeckChairVonBananaCamel]

4 hours ago, RolloDex said:

:0

Well now, that throws my calculations for theoretical damage out the window. Hot damn.

condition overload is absolutely insane, i love it (even better if you can combine it with crits)