And DE wonderz whY we don't use Augments...

[Lutesque]

Fun Mod... I was considering making an Umbral Equinox Build... just for this rather than Maim nuke build... and then I Threw some level 120 Heavy Gunners at the Doppleganger and she barely lasted 3 Seconds.

Useless! !!

Unless.... does anyone know how to make the Clone Tankier ?

[DarkRuler2500]

There is no... way.
The clone does not even take mods from the "main" Warframe (e.g. Adaption/Vitality) from what I observed.
She is just a minor distraction and thats it... the clone wont last in serious content. Sadly.

[(PSN)OriginalEquinox]

Wish they reworked this so the other half lasts until killed or until the player swaps again instead of 10 seconds, it would b a fun mod at least on low level content

[Lutesque]

4 minutes ago, (PS4)OriginalEquinox said:

Wish they reworked this so the other half lasts until killed or until the player swaps again instead of 10 seconds, it would b a fun mod at least on low level content

They couldn't even be bothered to Make it an Exilus Mod.... so sad.

[lnfine]

First, you can do vazarin dash to make it live longer if you want to bother.

Second, you want to take a high DPS hitscan weapon. Probably crit/status hybrid. Doppelganger is bad with projectile travel time and falloff (and horrible with beam weapons) and does body shots. OTOH it has aimbot.

If you give it, say, a properly modded rattleguts, it just deletes index.

[0_The_F00l]

It is very much dependent on the weapon of choice, and the mods you have on. 

It's a glass cannon not a tank.

Damage output is not affected by mods only the duration of the clone (and stats of base weapon) . 

Could you let us know the build you have and the weapon you used? 

[EoR_SolusCaeles]

The clone was innocent. An Equinox was never meant to be tanky facing high leveled enemies. The reason she died so fast was because you standed there doing nothing wanting to see her killing everything for you. You could've used Maim if you were in the day form yourself, or sleep the enemy if you're in the other. Even if you have no extra energy to do so, you could hit the enemy first while the form changing animation was still going on, to make the enemy stumble, and to give your clone some time to land a bullet for you before being shredded into tragic light particles that glitters in your energy colour. Remember one thing that the clone still stays there and fights for you even if you get killed, as long as the ability's duration doesn't run out. And she'd also think that you're useless since you yourself could get one-shotted in most of the cases, while facing enemies in high levels. That's why she covered you with gunshots. You really should do some pay back for her.

[CephalonDizzy]

I dunno...

Regenerative Molt, Capacitance, Vampire Leech, any one of Nezha's augments, pilfering swarm, Despoil, Ironclad Charge, Hall of Malevolence, Chilling Globe...

All these seem kinda cool I guess.

 

[Lutesque]

4 hours ago, lnfine said:

First, you can do vazarin dash to make it live longer if you want to bother.

LoL... theres a delay after casting the ability that prevents me from doing that.... atlesst doing it consistently... and thats when im solo.... if I'm playing in a squad this borderline unviable....

When are we getting Client Side Transference again ? Was this even confirmed... I only ever heard Rumors.

4 hours ago, lnfine said:

Second, you want to take a high DPS hitscan weapon. Probably crit/status hybrid.

So far I've used Tigris Prime and Rubico Prime... they work... but only if the clone doesn't work.

3 hours ago, 0_The_F00l said:

It is very much dependent on the weapon of choice, and the mods you have on. 

It's a glass cannon not a tank.

Glass Cannon's don't work very well in this game just because the enemies don't miss.... and the clone is Stationery when engaging enemies.... not that moving makes much of a difference but this just hilights how little thought was given to the mod in the first place.

3 hours ago, 0_The_F00l said:

Damage output is not affected by mods only the duration of the clone (and stats of base weapon) . 

It is... I confirmed this using a Status weapon. Changing the stats on it did proc different Status effects. The issue is with The Clone itself.

3 hours ago, 0_The_F00l said:

Could you let us know the build you have and the weapon you used? 

It was a combination of High Power Strength and Duration and low Range and Efficiency. 

1 hour ago, SolusCaeles said:

The clone was innocent. An Equinox was never meant to be tanky facing high leveled enemies.

Alot of Frames aren't... and this One Dimensional sort if thinking has made warframe boring. Frames that aren't tanks need some way of not dying.

Im getting tired if having to use Chroma every time DE confuses A Challenge with an Annoyance. 

2 hours ago, SolusCaeles said:

The reason she died so fast was because you standed there doing nothing wanting to see her killing everything for you.

Duh... This mod has no other purpose and Spectres in general... if it can't do that then its useless.

2 hours ago, SolusCaeles said:

You could've used Maim if you were in the day form yourself, or sleep the enemy if you're in the other.

Again... Theres a Delay before I can do anything and to make matters worse if I was using this in an actual combat scenario then I would simple be dead before the Clone even comes out. 

I could just skip The Clone all together and just Kill the enemies myself with Maim and Sleep.

2 hours ago, SolusCaeles said:

Even if you have no extra energy to do so, you could hit the enemy first while the form changing animation was still going on, to make the enemy stumble, and to give your clone some time to land a bullet for you before being shredded into tragic light particles that glitters in your energy colour.

Enemy ? As in Singular ? Just one ? Have you never played Warframe ?

2 hours ago, SolusCaeles said:

Remember one thing that the clone still stays there and fights for you even if you get killed, as long as the ability's duration doesn't run out. And she'd also think that you're useless since you yourself could get one-shotted in most of the cases, while facing enemies in high levels. That's why she covered you with gunshots. You really should do some pay back for her.

She'd be right... hence why Everyone uses Tanks when push comes to shove.

31 minutes ago, RushBCyka said:

I dunno...

Regenerative Molt, Capacitance, Vampire Leech, any one of Nezha's augments, pilfering swarm, Despoil, Ironclad Charge, Hall of Malevolence, Chilling Globe...

All these seem kinda cool I guess.

 

Those are useless... Regenerative Molt won't save you from getting one shotted and The RNG nature of Chilling Globe combine with the limited health if the Globe its self just doesn't make this particularly effective when push comes to shove....

Which reminds me... Why do enemies with guns even need to be so close to the the defense Objective. I've seen MOA's get so close they actually got stuck inside it.

[CephalonDizzy]

13 minutes ago, Lutesque said:

Those are useless... Regenerative Molt won't save you from getting one shotted and The RNG nature of Chilling Globe combine with the limited health if the Globe its self just doesn't make this particularly effective when push comes to shove....

Which reminds me... Why do enemies with guns even need to be so close to the the defense Objective. I've seen MOA's get so close they actually got stuck inside it.

Regenerative molt is very useful in ESO, which is one of those places Saryn excels at. Just because it doesn't prevent one shots doesn't make the mod useless. By that logic vitality and quick thinking are useless too.

Edited April 19, 2019 by RushBCyka

[Lutesque]

2 minutes ago, RushBCyka said:

 Regenerative molt is very useful in ESO,

Then you don't need it.... ESO isn't the benchmark of Bull S#&$ in this game.... 

4 minutes ago, RushBCyka said:

which is one of those places Saryn excels at. Just because it doesn't prevent one shots doesn't make the mod useless.

And if Magus Repair Didn't exist you would have a Point. Which is what I do whenever I use whenever the game fails to kill me in a single hit.

7 minutes ago, RushBCyka said:

By that logic vitality and quick thinking are useless too.

LoL... They are !!! 

[thegreatersea]

I mean, just because you found the augment unsatisfying doesn't mean it's actually a bad mod, nor does it mean nobody uses augments. Heck, there's quite a few Equinox builds out there that use this augment alongside the Energy Transfer augment for Mend and Maim to augment the damage output. As for augments in general, I'd say that personally over half my current loadouts use them, and I'm not an outlier in this case.

Just keep experimenting, and I'm sure you can find a good use for this mod, or any of the other augments you've dismissed.

[0_The_F00l]

28 minutes ago, Lutesque said:

Glass Cannon's don't work very well in this game just because the enemies don't miss.... and the clone is Stationery when engaging enemies.... not that moving makes much of a difference but this just hilights how little thought was given to the mod in the first place.

It is... I confirmed this using a Status weapon. Changing the stats on it did proc different Status effects. The issue is with The Clone itself.

It was a combination of High Power Strength and Duration and low Range and Efficiency. 

You need to pick your battles mate, the clone is not tanky we all agree with the fact, you need to use the ability in the right situations. 

My normal method : either cast sleep or maim so enemies stop attacking for a sec then cast metamorphosis.

Most enemies will get annihilated if you have a good weapon (not beam, not charged, not projectile) and the beefy ones will take quite a lot of damage. 

The AI is indeed dumb as rocks, I find punch trough makes it stay behind cover and shoot relatively safe. 

 

I should have mentioned that the clone damage is not affected by warframe mods. It is affected by base weapon stats (including mods) 

The damage reduction from pacify affects the clone (as long as its within range) 

 

You probably want some range and a little less strength. 

Edited April 19, 2019 by 0_The_F00l
Corrections

[(PSN)AbBaNdOn_IGN]

Sounds like the clone should be immortal.   It only lasts for 10 seconds...  

[Oreades]

Hell when I tried the mod I was lucky if the Doppelganger actually started aiming/shooting before the 5-7 second mark. So it felt like at least half the mods duration was wasted with my double sitting around contemplating the meaning or possibly heat death of the universe before they realized "OH HEY I'M SHOULD SHOOT TEH STOOF". 

 

That said there are some interesting augments. I can't think of a single one for Equinox that shouldn't already be baked into her default package but Stuff like Blitz (even tho I really don't use it enough) can add a little spice to gameplay and really Augments are just there to add a wee bit of spice.

Edited April 19, 2019 by Oreades

[Lutesque]

5 minutes ago, 0_The_F00l said:

You need to pick your battles mate, the clone is not tanky we all agree with the fact, you need to use the ability in the right situations. 

Theres literally no situation I can use it where I can easily take care of that situation myself.... 

And that's the problem. I have no reason to ever have this Fun Mod equipped 😞

8 minutes ago, 0_The_F00l said:

My normal method : either cast sleep or maim so enemies stop attacking for a sec then cast metamorphosis.

Why ? 

If I can Cast Either of those I can simply kill the enemies myself just as effeciently.

10 minutes ago, 0_The_F00l said:

Most enemies will get annihilated if you have a good weapon (not beam, not charged, not projectile) and the beefy ones will take quite a lot of damage. 

The beefy ones will kill her...

11 minutes ago, 0_The_F00l said:

I should have mentioned that the clone damage is not affected by warframe mods. It is affected by base weapon stats (including mods) 

:(

12 minutes ago, 0_The_F00l said:

The damage reduction from pacify affects the clone (as long as its within range) 

 

You probably want some range and a little less strength. 

Nooooo... I just want a reason not to use maim. 😞

10 minutes ago, (PS4)AbBaNdOn_IGN said:

Sounds like the clone should be immortal.   It only lasts for 10 seconds...  

Exactly. ... The description is a lie. 

BTW mine lasts for 20 Seconds.

 

[0_The_F00l]

2 minutes ago, Lutesque said:

Theres literally no situation I can use it where I can easily take care of that situation myself.... 

And that's the problem. I have no reason to ever have this Fun Mod equipped 😞

Why ? 

If I can Cast Either of those I can simply kill the enemies myself just as effeciently.

The beefy ones will kill her...

:(

Nooooo... I just want a reason not to use maim. 😞

Exactly. ... The description is a lie. 

BTW mine lasts for 20 Seconds.

 

Fair point, if it maintained all the active abilities as you cast duality it would be a lot more useful. 

3x weapon damage in bursts is why I use it, it's very situational though and I can understand why you feel it is a waste of a mod slot. 

[0_The_F00l]

8 hours ago, Lutesque said:

Fun Mod... I was considering making an Umbral Equinox Build... just for this rather than Maim nuke build... and then I Threw some level 120 Heavy Gunners at the Doppleganger and she barely lasted 3 Seconds.

Useless! !!

although you raised some fair points over the general state of the mod ,

She seems to hold her own.

 

 

[CephalonDizzy]

51 minutes ago, Lutesque said:

Then you don't need it.... ESO isn't the benchmark of Bull S#&$ in this game.... 

And if Magus Repair Didn't exist you would have a Point. Which is what I do whenever I use whenever the game fails to kill me in a single hit.

LoL... They are !!! 

ESO not being a benchmark does not make the augment mod useless. Neither the existence of magus repair.  It's much smoother to pop Saryn's 2, get the speed boost while healing and dropping a decoy, and resume playing.  This is something people actually do, believe it or not. And no it doesn't make them "bad players" in case that's the next point you make.

Also, I'm pretty sure you can make ANYTHING sound "useless" if you try hard enough. My issue really is the way the argument is framed.  An example of a sub par augment mod does not equate to all augment mods being useless, because there are many augments that are useful in situations. If you had said Duality needs work, then sure. I might be inclined to agree.

The real reason why some augments are underused or disliked is because they either A ). Don't do enough or are too specific (who uses vampire leech on a bless trin?) or B ) the augment effects really should have been in the vanilla version of the ability. Not because "Equinox's clone can't survive vs level 120 gunners" since how would that be relevant for a capacitance volt? Which by the way, level 120 gunners also aren't the be-all-end-all benchmark for B.S. in this game.

Edited April 19, 2019 by RushBCyka

[Lutesque]

3 hours ago, RushBCyka said:

ESO not being a benchmark does not make the augment mod useless. Neither the existence of magus repair. 

It does... I'd replace Regenerative Molt with something that kills fast enough so I don't have to worry about taking Damage in the first place.

[CephalonDizzy]

17 minutes ago, Lutesque said:

It does... I'd replace Regenerative Molt with something that kills fast enough so I don't have to worry about taking Damage in the first place.

But Saryn ALREADY kills fast enough...but since you have to go around popping your spores chip damage is inevitable. (More damage won't help, this is just how the mechanics of spores work) This allows a very viable hunter adrenaline build that also keeps up your energy...

If it doesn't mesh with your playstyle, that's one thing. So maybe it's useless to you. But this is FAR from a useless augment. 

 

If you really want unkillability then play Wukong or a Phoenix renewal (augment) Oberon. These will absolutely 100% prevent one shots just by function.

Edited April 19, 2019 by RushBCyka

[Lutesque]

Just now, RushBCyka said:

But Saryn ALREADY kills fast enough...but since you have to go around popping your spores chip damage is inevitable. This allows a very viable hunter adrenaline build that also keeps up your energy...

Well obviously this isn't fast enough....

1 minute ago, RushBCyka said:

 

If it doesn't mesh with your playstyle, that's one thing. So maybe it's useless to you. But this is FAR from a useless augment

Its useless... Saryn as a whole isnt my style but I can play her just fine... 

4 minutes ago, RushBCyka said:

If you really want unkillability then play Wukong or a Phoenix renewal (augment) Oberon. These will absolutely 100% prevent one shots just by function.

They are boring... I want my fun War frames to have some survivability. 

 

[CephalonDizzy]

1 minute ago, Lutesque said:

Well obviously this isn't fast enough....

Its useless... Saryn as a whole isnt my style but I can play her just fine... 

They are boring... I want my fun War frames to have some survivability. 

 

Then how Phoenix renewal useless, by your definition?

[Almagnus1]

Hey, at least we have phones!

Right guys?

[CephalonDizzy]

3 minutes ago, Almagnus1 said:

Hey, at least we have phones!

Right guys?

Keeps me entertain when it's slow at work 😁

[Lutesque]

7 minutes ago, RushBCyka said:

Then how Phoenix renewal useless, by your definition?

I never said it was...