My Ivara is invisible, DE

[(PSN)Ch1b1N1njaGam1ng]

Can this thumper please stop turning around? He shouldn't be able to see me AT ALL

[Xaero]

Maybe he smells you?

[(PSN)Ch1b1N1njaGam1ng]

4 minutes ago, Ksaero said:

Maybe he smells you?

Its a ROBOT 

[5H4DE]

1 minute ago, (PS4)Ch1b1N1njaGam1ng said:

Its a ROBOT 

Heat radar?

[Genoscythe]

il y a 15 minutes, (PS4)Ch1b1N1njaGam1ng a dit :

Can this thumper please stop turning around? He shouldn't be able to see me AT ALL

I think an enemy that is supposed to be a miniboss should not be able to be trivialized by invisibility skills.

[BossLevel9000]

vor 33 Minuten schrieb (PS4)Ch1b1N1njaGam1ng:

Can this thumper please stop turning around? He shouldn't be able to see me AT ALL

Not everything can be solved with camping,u should mod ivara a bit with mobility mods such as "Endurance Drift" and "Infiltrate".

Edited:

I use Arcane Consequence as well,and btw. not every frame i suited for getting the job done.

You should try out Loki with Rolling Guard.

 

Edited April 19, 2019 by CyberMemes

[(PSN)deathwolfclaw666]

7 hours ago, Ksaero said:

Maybe he smells you?

I smell you, boy (Megatron)

[SECURATYYY]

On 2019-04-19 at 10:26 AM, Ksaero said:

Maybe he smells you?

SNIFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF

[Teridax68]

On perhaps a slightly more serious note, there's been a recent trend of enemies who don't seem at all to care whether or not the player's invisible, e.g. Profit-Taker and Exploiter firing their weapons at invisible frames, and now Thumpers turning away from players they should not be able to see. This is, at the very least, inconsistent, and while I can agree that powerful enemies shouldn't be trivialized by players pressing a button, the reverse should also apply, and players shouldn't have their abilities hard-countered by some arbitrary immunity, because that just makes things confusing for everyone (there's no way to know which enemies ignore invisibility without checking an external source, and the same can be said for the handful of effects that also ignore Limbo's Rift).

If there is a valid point to be had, though, it's that some invisibility effects, along with many warframe abilities, do in fact trivialize the game, which makes it impossible for us to receive the challenge many of us so crave. However, the way forward shouldn't be to simply negate these effects on a whim with enemies, but to rebalance or redesign these effects so that they can be healthy. In the meantime, enemies shouldn't simply ignore these effects, no matter how powerful they're supposed to be: putting aside how it wouldn't be the end of the world if players could remain undetected to the likes of Profit-Taker when invisible (it would likely not change the current meta there at all), at the end of the day, DE has made their bed, and until they change their design they're just going to have to lie in it. For sure, it's not great design to have abilities that trivialize the game, but it's even worse design to try to answer that with enemies that just fail to obey the rules set by the game, and so for no strong reason and with no indication. Not only does it make the game less consistent now, it's going to only add extra work when the relevant effects get fixed, and all of the special-casing (or bugs turned features) needs to get removed for those frames to function properly. If making stealthed frames undetectable to Thumpers makes Ash, Ivara or Loki the best Thumper hunters, so be it: those frames aren't that good at doing Bounties, where Thumper farming happens, so their increase in viability could in fact add to diversity overall.

[MirageKnight]

1 hour ago, Teridax68 said:

On perhaps a slightly more serious note, there's been a recent trend of enemies who don't seem at all to care whether or not the player's invisible, e.g. Profit-Taker and Exploiter firing their weapons at invisible frames, and now Thumpers turning away from players they should not be able to see. This is, at the very least, inconsistent, and while I can agree that powerful enemies shouldn't be trivialized by players pressing a button, the reverse should also apply, and players shouldn't have their abilities hard-countered by some arbitrary immunity, because that just makes things confusing for everyone (there's no way to know which enemies ignore invisibility without checking an external source, and the same can be said for the handful of effects that also ignore Limbo's Rift).

Agreed. There needs to be an established ruleset that governs what sort of enemies are capable of negating our cloaking abilities, how they go about doing it, and how we can tell if they can detect us... and DE needs to stick to it.

Let's use Thumpers as an example. It would be reasonable to surmise that a Thumper's pilot would have access to active IR/UV sighting systems that could "see" through our camouflage. That being said, the pilot would need a reason to activate those systems to look for us to begin with, such as coming under attack but being unable to identify the attacker. In addition, there should be a way for the player to tell if the Thumper's pilot has those systems engaged, such as a small bright red light showing up next to the Thumper's optical sensor - or even having the optics glow red would work. I'm pretty sure that Dargyns would have some kind of PNVS (Pilot Night Vision System) that has an IR camera as well.

It's also reasonable to surmise that advanced Corpus Proxies and autonomous robots would have similar active IR/UV sighting systems. As with Grineer units, those systems  would normally come into play if the unit came under attack but couldn't see the attacker by normal means and we should have some kind of visual indicator on the enemy to show that they can detect us (glowing optics etc.)

The exception to that "no special detection unless attacked by unseen source" rule would be if an area is in a state of alert, in which case units with detection capabilities would obviously have their detection systems engaged to look for enemies...with those systems being disengaged when the area's alert level returns to normal.

Edited April 22, 2019 by MirageKnight

[SECURATYYY]

Why wouldn't the active IR/UV be on at all times?

[DatDarkOne]

This is interesting topic to me.  I've fought the Thumpers solo as Ivara and found it to be quite easy.  I also was at range and sniping him with my Rubico Prime.   It's the group dynamic that changes things a bit.  Which is something I've said many times already in regards to Ivara.  The exact same thing happens in those solo fights I've had with Wolf as compared to in groups.  

6 hours ago, MirageKnight said:

The exception to that "no special detection unless attacked by unseen source" rule would be if an area is in a state of alert, in which case units with detection capabilities would obviously have their detection systems engaged to look for enemies...with those systems being disengaged when the area's alert level returns to normal.

This is somewhat the case right now in the game.  The real problem I've found to be really really annoying are the missiles of both Kela and the Jackal.   Why can those missiles track invisible frames while the anti-AW missiles can't track Itzal in Penumbra.  

6 hours ago, SECURATYYY said:

Why wouldn't the active IR/UV be on at all times?

simple answer would be increased energy usage and/or wasted extra processing power when not needed.  

Edited April 22, 2019 by DatDarkOne

[MirageKnight]

15 minutes ago, SECURATYYY said:

Why wouldn't the active IR/UV be on at all times?

Fair question!

12 minutes ago, DatDarkOne said:

simple answer would be increased energy usage and/or wasted extra processing power when not needed.  

^This. There are also disadvantages to using IR/UV optics, notably in that you can't see in real color and that it can be really hard to discern small details in those vision modes.

Edited April 22, 2019 by MirageKnight

[SECURATYYY]

They're hidden in the ground until something(tenno) walk by, then it pops out. I'd figure it would go into full assault mode at that time.

[Teridax68]

13 hours ago, SECURATYYY said:

Why wouldn't the active IR/UV be on at all times?

I mean, it could, but I think the important thing here is that there is some sort of visual/audio cue that clearly signals that the player's invisibility is being negated in some form. I think what @MirageKnight is proposing first and foremost is to translate current hard counters or immunities on enemies into actual gameplay mechanics, rather than just hidden effects that were added there for the arbitrary sake of balance. This is why most stealth games with special enemies typically go out of their way to show how those enemies don't play by the normal rules: the Dishonored series, for example, has special units that can't be knocked out (Tallboys), enemies that can look in more than one direction at once (Clockwork soldiers), enemies that can disrupt the player's powers (Music Box Overseers), and so on, and each of these units have a whole set of visual and audio cues to showcase how they operate differently, in addition to entirely different models, behaviors, etc. It is precisely because these units are so clearly understandable that the player can have a much richer and deeper gameplay experience than if they, say, randomly got detected or couldn't cast any abilities. A Thumper with a special detector that caused invisible players to shimmer constantly when near it would be better than a Thumper that would behave in the same way, but with no cue.

[MirageKnight]

14 hours ago, SECURATYYY said:

They're hidden in the ground until something(tenno) walk by, then it pops out.

Not always. Sometimes you find them wandering around near a base.

[MirageKnight]

1 hour ago, Teridax68 said:

I think what @MirageKnight is proposing first and foremost is to translate current hard counters or immunities on enemies into actual gameplay mechanics, rather than just hidden effects that were added there for the arbitrary sake of balance.

Correct and thanks for the shout out 🙂