Mr 27 complaining about trade chat

[SenariousNex]

I used to resell Arcanes a lot during raids, it's an honest way to make money, your local businesses do it every day. They buy in bulk and sell individually at a mark up. Warframe arcane reselling is more like the fishing industry, the fish market (reseller) pays the fishermen (Raiders/Eidolon hunters) A certain cost to acquire goods, bundles them up and resells to the end consumer who doesn't want to waste 10 trades and 3 hours collecting a grace set. 

It's up to you how you play your game, you can sit in trade chat all day, or you can be in the field all day grinding spiders and selling their legs. I used to do the trade chat sitting for hours role, but with WFM now, the grinding and listing is much more lucrative, even if you sell at a lower cost than a reseller.   

[(XBOX)Kuljack]

1 hour ago, (XB1)Nightingale589 said:

Imagine telling a new player they can earn 10s of thosands of platinum if they camp trade chat to buy r0 arcanes to sell r3. Realistically even fewer people would stick with the game 

You need to understand trade camping to appreciate it. Those who commit to this sit for hours posting the same banner over and over again. 

It can takes minutes, hours, sometimes days before they are on at the sane time as some who will pay the price. In the meantime they have to swat through hundreds of low balls and trolls *@##$ing them out for their prices. 

This is an economy of players with different interests and pleasures. You say you enjoy tricaps and you make plat off your arcane steadily. Traders pay you valid plat to gather arcane collectively and resell for a little profit for their time and efforts. Most of these players don’t enjoy tricaps but also seek a means for platinum. 

You are supporting each other’s interests. It’s a bit silly the bite the hand that feeds you.

[(PSN)obsidiancurse]

57 minutes ago, KIREEK said:

May i ask why does the game of other players bother you that much? Why are you trying to dictate what other players do or shouldn't do?

They sell for the price they want and you do the same, there is nothing you can do.

This topic is essentially someone complaining that other players are making more profit than OP.

The ridiculous thing is, as I’m sure someone has already pointed out, it’s the OPs decision to sell singularly, they could just wait until they have a set themselves..

[sleepychewbacca]

5 minutes ago, (PS4)obsidiancurse said:

The ridiculous thing is, as I’m sure someone has already pointed out, it’s the OPs decision to sell singularly, they could just wait until they have a set themselves..

As someone pointed out, OP is most likely upset that someone profits better than he does. 

Someone sold an Adaptation mod for 35 plat in trade chat, and I flipped it for 75. He was not amused. 

So it's more likely an issue of lost profits than ethics for OP's case. 

[(PSN)guzmantt1977]

2 hours ago, (XB1)Nightingale589 said:

Let me prefice this by saying this is one of my first forum posts so please bare with me. I am an avid eidolon hunter and quite enjoy the rewards that they give out. Ive done over 1000 hydrolyst captures and have had many good experiences with them. Arcanes are my main source of platinum but as of recent ive been discouraged from hunting as many people who i would sell my arcanes to will just stock pile them and then sell the rank 3 arcane for over 2 times what it would cost to buy unranked ones. This is not an isolated incident you can see many people buying graces for 120p and in the same day selling a rank 3 for 2000p. They have completely circumvented the "eidolon grind" the fix to this issue would not be easy but i think the "eidolon hunting community" needs to think of something

Lemme make a suggestion.

Instead of selling rank 1 arcanes, wait till you have 10, combine them and sell for under 2k plat. Preferably in large numbers one at a time, walking your way down towards the 1200plat mark, one per customer of course. That way you still make your plat, and tank the market while cutting down on the supply for the resellers. 

Anyone who actually buys from you instead of the resellers, benefits from your lower prices, and the resellers who try to snag an easy flip for a couple of hundred plat, get jammed up with arcanes that they're going to have to hold on to in order to see any profit at all. 

 

Now if you ask me, that path is far more morally questionable than buying to resell at a profit. You'd be intentionally attempting to screw with a market equilibrium for your own purposes. I'm only comfortable making the suggestion because I don't really believe that a single player will create a lasting impact. 

[Guest]

2 hours ago, (XB1)Nightingale589 said:

Its a video game market. This isnt the real world we don't have 3rd party people pressuring us to sell for cheap. Camping trade chat=/=playing warframe how do we not realize this

The market is dictated by the players. There's no such thing as 'too cheap' or 'too expensive', the correct price is exactly what both parties agree on.

What do you suggest? That DE should set maximum price for each item because apparently no one not allowed to make more profit than you?

Edited April 20, 2019 by Guest

[(XBOX)SilverSurferGuy]

Sooo you’re just complaining that someone is making more than you? They know that they can turn a profit by buying them individually and then selling them fully ranked. See, you’re making an issue where there isn’t one. 

[(PSN)JordanMalicious]

This is tame compared to the big d*** energy players who try to sell Rivens for 2-5k plat (PS4) Absolutely absurd BUT I see them pushing those same Rivens every day, guess finding a buyer on ridiculously priced stuff is a bit hard.

[Firedtm]

4 hours ago, (XB1)Nightingale589 said:

This is not an isolated incident you can see many people buying graces for 120p and in the same day selling a rank 3 for 2000p.

welcome to warframe's broken trade chat. where arcanes are under cut and over sold, if you think the arcanes are bad, just look at the riven market....

[Kodiak_PL]

And in today's episode, a Warframe player discovers how free market works. 

Buy low, sell high. 

Things in sets cost higher because:

1. They are convenient for the buyer. 

2. They took some time and resources to gather and hold on to. 

That's like the most basic of basic ideas of economy, I am baffled that you're so disgusted by it, even calling it "immoral". 

You're either really naive or really young if you don't understand that it's fair to charge more for a set than for individual pieces. 

[(XBOX)D00M INCARNATE]

4 hours ago, GnarlsDarkley said:

Welcome to the real world.

Not farmers get good payment. It's the industry between the farmer and you

That's actually a stereotype. Farmers are extremely wealthy.

[Shadedraxe]

4 hours ago, (XB1)Nightingale589 said:

Why would anyone do eidolons then? The people generating the arcanes should be benefiting the most, not the people camping trade chat

You could cut out the middle man and keep the arcanes until they reach R3 and then sell them at a higher price yourself if it really bothers you. You’ll have a lot less time to grind for arcanes waiting in the trade chat. But I don’t see another solution without DE changing the trade system.

Edited April 20, 2019 by Shadedraxe

[(XBOX)Dex Xean]

is the OP detached from reality cause this practice happens in the business world no matter the country. The only difference is how much every country does it.

[Vanaomie]

You know you could also grind out the 10 or so and use them to make the max profit. That would cut out your middle man but make you work harder as other people have explained.

[(XBOX)Nightingale589]

Well I think this was a successful first post. Kinda killed the game for me so break time but plenty of conversation was had gg bois

[Arceps]

The replies are getting repetitive. I was about to say we're done here. But OP seems already done that 🙂

[FlyingDice]

As long as people will sell low on raw materials/incomplete pieces and other people will buy high on end products and complete sets, middlemen will exist. That's just how gaming markets work.

A perfect example was the old '05-'06-era Runescape flax/bstring economy at Seer's.

In both cases, there are people willing to put in the additional time required to gather raw mats and process them into the desired sale state, gaining the highest per-unit profit at the expense of time. There are people who want quick cash based on small-volume labor -- they farm raw mats and sell them off to middlemen. There are people who want to risk their liquid capital on their trading skills, buying and processing raw mats into the desired sale state, then selling high enough to make money on the transaction. There are people who want to use the product in the desired sale state but don't want to invest either the larger time expenditure to get it for free through their own effort, or the smaller time expenditure to buy raw mats and combine them.

If you don't like that, don't sell raw mats and don't buy finished products. Other people will, of course. Unlike pure flippers, who are unrepentant parasites, middlemen like this provide a valid service: they spend the time scouring trade chat for enough raw materials to make a finished arcane, which saves impatient farmers from grinding enough to make one and impatient users from having to farm their own. That's their labor input, and it's a valid contribution of value to the end product.

It's how most modern business works due to simple efficiency of labor: a fisherman can't in most cases reasonably expect to make more money in a given time period if he also cleans his catch, cooks it, and runs a restaurant to distribute it to end-users (i.e. someone who wants to eat a fish sandwich for lunch). Different components of that process are taken on by different parties, with each gaining a portion of the overall value of the end product (that fish sandwich's sale price) in exchange for the value they contribute to the process of taking it from "fish in the sea" to "fish sandwich in the customer's hand".

That doesn't mean profit is always distributed in a manner which corresponds to the degree of value added to the product. It often isn't. However, in a simple economy like Warframe's where chains of production are typically two-step with no middlemen and less often three-step with a single middleman, there's not much room for corruption and inequity (barring straight flippers who contribute no value to the product).

Edited April 20, 2019 by FlyingDice

[(NSW)Sk0rp1on]

5 hours ago, (XB1)Nightingale589 said:

This seems...highly immoral

In some situations it might be, (like, say, driving up the price of insulin) but in this context letting the market play out is fine. 

[Aksad]

Profit goes to the patient, and the ones buying your arcanes are the ones declaring the value of your goods if you and other sellers elect to part with them at that price. Want more plat? Hold on to your arcanes and upgrade them over time, sell them when they're maxed. Take more time, makes more plat. Selling unranked arcanes is quick but less profitable long term. 

You and the eidolon hunting community can do nothing besides pointlessly trying to petition DE to implement a price controlled economy. I promise you that you don't speak for the whole eidolon hunting community, and that many of your fellow hunters are also these trade chat campers you speak of. They buy unranked arcanes to add value to their current ones. I know this because I've done it, and know many others who do so.

Nothing immoral about the free market, friend. There are simply those who adapt well to it, and those who don't. You're not ill-adapted to the War-trade market, you are simply selling the most basic product possible from eidolon hunting (unranked arcanes) which is an important part of the economy. Buy things that will increase in value over time, sell them later. Arcane trading is in a good spot right now though, after the fortuna release the amount of arcanes in the market dropped, causing a large surge in value.

Seek profit and prosper, fellow Wartrader!

[zoffmode]

I'm with you, OP. Just have to accept that human nature is greed. Resellers in real world provide actual service. Resellers in Warframe provide no service and no value, but they do gain profit.

Basically just accept that trade chat Tenno are actually worse than Corpus. That's all you can do. Scum of the scum. 

[sleepychewbacca]

52 minutes ago, zoffmode said:

I'm with you, OP. Just have to accept that human nature is greed. Resellers in real world provide actual service. Resellers in Warframe provide no service and no value, but they do gain profit.

Basically just accept that trade chat Tenno are actually worse than Corpus. That's all you can do. Scum of the scum. 

If someone sells me something cheaper than I can sell it for does that make me scum tho? 

Arr. Me Pirate. Yo ho ho and a bottle of rum. 

[zoffmode]

3 minutes ago, sleepychewbacca said:

If someone sells me something cheaper than I can sell it for does that make me scum tho? 

Arr. Me Pirate. Yo ho ho and a bottle of rum. 

That depends if you're regularly sniping the lower prices or not.

[sleepychewbacca]

1 minute ago, zoffmode said:

That depends if you're regularly sniping the lower prices or not.

Whenever I see it, or if it's something that'll complete a set I have. 

Like for example, Wolf Sledge. I had some parts and saw some people selling the parts I didnt have for under the average value. I bought it, and flipped the set for 1,500 platinum during week 2 of Nightwave.

Same thing with arcanes, and prime parts. Mods, depending? ROI there doesn't go far, save for the occasional time like Acolytes.  

[Aksad]

2 hours ago, zoffmode said:

I'm with you, OP. Just have to accept that human nature is greed. Resellers in real world provide actual service. Resellers in Warframe provide no service and no value, but they do gain profit.

Basically just accept that trade chat Tenno are actually worse than Corpus. That's all you can do. Scum of the scum. 

Reselling maintains the sell value of the item vs the buy value. You are correct to say that in a free trade environment, individuals who flip bought goods don't provide any "value or service" to others, but they do provide a function to an economy while making a fair profit for themselves.

To that logic though, one might argue that they indirectly provide the service of price stability to sellers. The buyers take on an inherent risk by buying goods with the intent of resale for later profit, and the seller of the item gets plat at an agreed upon price. I think calling them "scum of scum" might be a little harsh, but I understand the frustrations of seeing others profit using your own goods.

[Amoral_Support]

You and other like minded folks can always form a trade union. Stock pile rank three Arcanes and then sell them at 1p each. Undercut unethical capitalist pig dogs and if you market yourselves well enough completely tank the market. Its not like DE is going to play the part of government and stop you from doing that. Seriously start stock pilling Arcanes and sell them for next to nothing. 

Edited April 21, 2019 by Amoral_Support