Arbitration Rework Suggestion

[(PSN)AllOrNothinDays]

Yeah, I only just recently wondered about accidentally picking them up. Sounds like a real pain.

[Knight_Ex]

There were so many particle effects on the screen you can't avoid them at times 😕

[CryptonicLove]

So with this new update we got the ability to revive dead squad mates (hurray- in a sarcastic way) now i have just finished an hour thirty minutes survival so im curious:

1: Why are you forcing players to revive squad mates? (And i mean literally forcing to revive players) When a squad mate dies why is it that we are being forced to revive him/her over and over again. Reached 50 min+ in survival and one person kept dying over and over again and guess what i cannot control whether i want to revive that player why so?, because i dont have the option of not picking up those gems or whatever they are called after you kill an arbritration drone. So effectively you are forcing players to revive their squad mates even if that person keeps dying again and again and refuses to leave the match after he/she keeps dying. 

This opens up a whole new possibility of trolls who keep dying and if their team decides not to revive them, they can just sit there do nothing and basically ruin other peoples experience by having drones drop gems which effectively reduces their health making it easier for them to die or get 1 shotted in higher level content. 

2: Why are squad mates being punished and not the person who dies? Played Inaros 6.8k hp, try and revive dead squad mate pick up gems and guess what 5 gems 2.8k hp, 4k hp vanished. Do i care as inaros if i lose that much hp no i dont but do other frames care if they lose hp. (Staring at Nidus hp if he picks up 5 gems) 

Spoiler

BTW when you revive your squad mate you do not get the lost hp back you have to heal it to full. So if u dont have anyway to heal yourself back to full health u screwed 

So why are the other players being punished for someone elses mistake? The dead person can come back to full health and shield with no drawbacks no punishment and the squad mate who revived him/her has his hp effectively cut in half (Im assuming here by picking 5 gems up coz i went from 6.8k to 2.8k when i picked 5up). 

3: Is there a cap on the number of times a player is allowed to die or can they just be bought back as many times as possible so long as their team decides to revive them? Pretty sure the guy i played with died more than 6 times in the entire run so am actually curious as to whether there is a hard cap on the number of revives or is it infinite as long as your team revives you.

Aside from that im pretty impressed with this new update as a whole but definitely feel the revive mechanic needs to be changed or tweaked in some way or else its just too punishing for other players

TLDR: Why are the people trying to revive a dead team mate punished where as the person who dies not punished at all. 

Edited April 25, 2019 by CryptonicLove

[Tenno_Aster]

As someone who enjoyed Arbys as a sort of downtime activity, the new changes have me worried. I think a lot of fans of them prior will be upset with these changes.

Here's how I would change Arby's:

• Keep this new scaling change. I think Arbitrations should be engaging.
• Make reward rounds every 5 waves (or equivalent). The biggest problem with Arbitrations is their time investment. Give players something they can pick-up and do in small bursts OR binge hard. Give players MORE options with how to play the game. As is, the time investment is a major hurdle that arbitrarily gates players from being able to enjoy the content should they not have the time.
• Remove this new revive system. Instead, make it so that players earn a Revive every 10 waves or equivalent.

[EinheriarJudith]

8 minutes ago, TheStardustTenno said:

As someone who enjoyed Arbys as a sort of downtime activity, the new changes have me worried. I think a lot of fans of them prior will be upset with these changes.

Here's how I would change Arby's:

• Keep this new scaling change. I think Arbitrations should be engaging.
• Make reward rounds every 5 waves (or equivalent). The biggest problem with Arbitrations is their time investment. Give players something they can pick-up and do in small bursts OR binge hard. Give players MORE options with how to play the game. As is, the time investment is a major hurdle that arbitrarily gates players from being able to enjoy the content should they not have the time.
• Remove this new revive system. Instead, make it so that players earn a Revive every 10 waves or equivalent.

this. i absolutely hate the new revive system. keep index crap in index please. i was playing nekros in survival 1 person died, 1 person left and me and the remaining person couldnt revive the downed person so i was stuck with the debuff.

[Talinthis]

1 hour ago, zoffmode said:

Yeah they really do screw you over. Just like Index you kinda walk over them and it can happen by accident. I assume they vanish from team after revive happens though.

I assume it's a bug, but dude that died in my Arbitration after we took too long to find him (that was some far away room he died in) screwed 2 of us by leaving and locking us in with tokens on. Managed to fix it with suiciding and having the other guy with tokens revive me, but still...

indeed they do disappear if everyone is revived. i had two matches after my comments so far. my first run, a noob that has never played arbitration before tried to extract 1000 meters away from where the excavators were and wouldnt just leave, making it SUPER annoying.. i had 9 tokens and 80 health before i just went to extraction to revive him then all the way back to the excavators. we left after 8 of them because of him making everyone ultra weak (he died again after i left to go back to mission, kept getting more points again but they disappeared from the entire team after his revive.)

second match was alright. everyone stuck together, one guy died once after 50 minutes in survival and we revived him promptly. overall imo you should have to press x like you do on powercells to pick up these index points.

Edited April 25, 2019 by Talinthis

[DreisterDino]

vor 15 Stunden schrieb Marine027:

Go in without mods, without a team and with MK-1 Weapons, there is your Elite and Challange.

[...]

Edit: I still not intend to do it btw due i find it boring and just dragged out instead of a challange, i enjoy long fights but i want actual mechanics and not jsut high scaled enemys with some of them beeing CC/Ability Immune.

Maybe we need a level 500 only Wolfs wave for such people to get them of there high horses also, just my opinion.

Edit: Just in case you didnt talk to me but adressed a deleted post that got merged here, i am sorry but the confusion isnt my fault then.

"Go in without Mods" - not being able to kill anything and watching life-support run out is neither fun nor challenging.

"actual mechanics" did you even read my post? I made several suggestions for mechanics that can make the gamemode more enjoyable for everyone, just look at my suggestions for the drones for example. You say that you still dont like the gamemode at all and wont play it, which kinda implies that the changes they made dont improve the gamemode. I made suggestions that could change something, and i took feedback of other players into account when writing this, but it seems you dont even read that and instead rage against me throwing words around like "elitism" and "get off their high horses".

 

vor 15 Stunden schrieb Marine027:

Forgive them making rewards better accesable that way for people who just want to have fun also

for many people having actual consequences in just one single gamemode has been the refreshing and fun part...

vor 14 Stunden schrieb Marine027:

You still can do Arbitrations without diying once right? Go in with team you trust, your statistik you can put a screenshot of and polish your ego with it also

I make a post with suggestions on how to improve the gamemode, and you come around telling me i should take screenshots to polish my ego,

ok, great discussion mate. Just to make it clear for you - it has never been about my ego, it has been about how to make the gamemode more fun.

 

vor 14 Stunden schrieb HellVOps:

OP, have you read the post about arbitrations and its issues on the recent hotfix page? You really should.  

I've seen the topic, what do you mean with issues? in the comments? didnt read them (yet).

vor 13 Stunden schrieb peterc3:

The drones are the only reason the mode exists. Remove them, in spirit or literally, and there is no point in there being Arbitrations or for there to be even more rewards for it. 

is this adressed to my suggestion?

I didnt suggest to remove them, i suggested to change how they function. Because like i said, i support that they exist, but i think it could be improved gameplay-wise.

Also, i dont think the drones are the only reason the gamemode exists, Permadeath was a huge factor aswell.

 

vor 13 Stunden schrieb --END--Rikutatis:

Playing public is absolute cancer now. Ppl die and you accidently pick up the debuff tokens while trying to kill the drones. I only had 2 of the tokens and was waiting for the other players to converge on the dead player pod so we could revive him, but it's a public squad, so no one is communicating or coordinating. Then someone else dies while the first one is still dead waiting for a revive... yea, fun times. I'm never playing Arbitration in public again.  

Sadly, thats exactly what many people expected to happen, there have been endless posts about this in the original topic, i really wonder why they had to rush this update out so quickly. I guess they wanted it off their to-do-list and now we are stuck with this.

 

 

Edited April 25, 2019 by DreisterDino

[DreisterDino]

vor 7 Stunden schrieb Knight_Ex:

Annnd it looks like my thread was deleted and merged with that one....why am I not surprised..

I know this doesnt belong here really but - the merging of threads by moderators is really bad sometimes and doesnt help at all.

I understand the purpose to gather everything in one topic to have a better overview, but it does exactly the opposite.

 

I dont know if everyone i have quoted in my previous post actually replied when the threads already have been merged or not,

so i cant know if they are talking to me or someone else. Also, the order of the posts after merging is time-based only,

meaning everything gets thrown into one big pile making it just a big mess of multiple overlapping discussions.

 

This happened to me a few times now, and it is annoying in cases like this when multiple people make different suggestions,

because while they are on the same topic, the suggestions might go in totally different directions, and then we end up with multiple discussion in one topic, and in the end no one knows who is talking about what suggestion. so @D20, @Letter13 and all the other Mods, plz try to think a bit more about when to merge threads and if it really makes things more easy. MIght be better to add a subforum like we had for Fortuna after release when there is a hot topic.

Edited April 25, 2019 by DreisterDino

[Amadeus]

The biggest problem is definitely the revives in Arbitration. The game mode was supposed to be different. Now it doesn't feel different to any other survival. Now it just feels easy, low risk, not compelling at all. Please reconsider.

[ZarTham]

Thank you once again DE, for making things way too easy, you keep #*!%ing it up, great for you.... STOP making everything easy.

[Avadiel_tv]

All those post are TLTR for me ATM but imo we should be able to kick AFK player in any type of arbitration. The fact is that i've seen to many players of all level just hide and use macro or moove just to leave the afk mode so they just get free loot. That of course increase the difficulty for every other player in the squad. 

Edit: I've read that lot of you fellow tenno didn't like the fact that you could revive an unfortunate dead one but I'd like to remind that an error, hum hum ,an happy accident or a oneshot is waiting for you on the corner of the street. We see you sneaky drones and eximus. So it's one way to avoid all the sleepy, bored tenno to die after 2 rotations.

Edited April 25, 2019 by Avadiel_tv

[Azara.]

Im 50/50 on the reviving. It just encourages players to be sloppy. If it would be possible, i think a time gate on when that revive system activates is needed. Say 10 minutes in survival. If you die before that point, no revives for you. Because you clearly arent equipped to handle the "challenge."

I can personally say, dying an hour in to some wonk crap is not fun. I was saryn-ing my way through, 58 minutes in. Bullet jump to a new spot to deal with a drone, no sound, no line. DEAD. Midair. Cue comical flop to the ground. A grineer sniper managed to kill me mid bullet jump, with no warning i was even being target by one. Wow. What immersive and fun content, being one shot with no clear indication i was being targeted. A revive at that point is appreciated.

I really do want arbitrations to be fun. But they just get boring. Spawns in survival are horse crap. Spawns in defense are almost overwhelming, coupled with the inredibly idiotic AI defense dude who literally runs into danger All. The. Time. Not even trinity can save his a$$ sometimes.

Forcing the player to camp a secure hallway to protect a dumsh*t ai isnt fun. I would rather it be a normal defense pod if theres going to be tons of enemies. Or i dont know, actually let CC be useful here. Seriously. Frames like Vauban and Nyx are downright depressing to play in NORMAL missions, and in a place where CC should be valuable, the enemies are immnute to it. These frames could have a use and purpose here and actually promote players to play them, and instead they are curbstomped into oblivion.

 

-Reduce rotation time to match increased scaling. There is no argument for not having that now. As others have stated and agreed. New rotation pattern. AABBCCCC...

-drones offer instead: % damage reduction, can only buff a certain amount of enemies(say. 7 to reduce on fps loss for lower end pcs), enemies can be CC'd at least, drones are less squirrelly and\or bigger hitbox, drones fly above enemies so it can be dealt with a bit more easily. There is a ton of options to make them less of a nuisance and stop encouraging the wide hit weapon meta, aka the Arca Plasmor.

-unique maps, or handselected tilesets. There is nothing worse than getting a really bad map. The infested corpus ship tileset is awful. Its a parkour and navigating nightmare in normal missions. Not being able to make use of movement to survive because the terrain in cramped and overlapping isnt an appropriate source to make content more challenging.

-let CC be useful in arbitrations. Vaubans already depressing to play in starchart missions. You could at least let the poor bastard wallow in his misery in arbitrations. You know. A place his CC potential could really shine. For once, his passive would actually have some decent use considering the increased scaling.

-Insane armor values doesnt not make challenging content. Bullet sponges are not content. As a whole, not just for arbitrations, but the enemy AI needs to be revamped.

-the ability blocking with the drones. I get it, frames like equinox and saryn are insanely good at room clearing, which wipes the challenge away. But just. Reduced effectivess? Did that even cross their minds. Be it reduced damage(for damage abilities like saryn spores) or time(for cc abilities like nyx mind control) for droned enemies. If i didnt want to use my abilities i'd fight the corpus.

 

There are games out there that are challenging in a good way. The SoulsBorn games are popular for a reason. Its challenging in a way (a majority of) players can get behind and enjoy. It isnt just bullet sponge enemies with the same few attacks over and over. Its dozens of enemies of varying health pools, with there own attack speeds and movement patterns. These enemies have choreography that allows the players to learn and counter. They are all dangerous. But approached properly, they go down pretty quickly, barring the mini-mini bosses one can encounter throughout the stages. Thats the kind of enemies i want. Dangerous, but easily taken down if approached right.

[(PSN)grevenilvec75]

How about just get rid of the ability to revive teammates altogether (in arbitrations).  

 

That way everyone has their four mission revives (or however many there are) and that's it.  

[tychondus]

Revive is the band-aid solution to the problem. Putting a band-aid over a problem and banking on ignorance and hope and wishful thinking for the problem to go away, does not work in reality. The real problem with arbi is the random (and extremely consistent) 1-shotting by enemies. It does not matter what level they are. The same enemy at the same level in anywhere outside of arbi has not 1-shotted me. But in Arbi, somehow they get some weird damage boost and 1-shot. You don't get a warning beep as your health is reaches critical level or a chance to react. You are dead, that's it. I have seen this time and time again in the EE.log. This S#&$ has been going on since the start of Arbi. This frequency that this happens has progressively gotten worse and worse as time went by. And that is why everyone is running Inaros or Nidus or some other tanky frame. Adding revive to the game mode is NOT the solution. Fix the problem. This has been going on for far too long. 

[Chanzi]

Devs, please listen to some of this feedback. Arbitrations have a lot of potential, but they just take way too long and have all the problems mentioned in this thread. I agree that adding revives does nothing to help the major issues, and in fact it removes some of the fun of Arbitrations. I won't be upset if revives stay in, but please fix the other issues.

[ValariusXT]

Keep perma death, remove stupid revive mechanic, remove the drone completely, shorten the reward rotation to normal rotations, insane enemy scaling. That's it. Simple AF. This mode is not for cry babies and newbies. GTFO! If you wanna implement drone so much then this I suggest. Make it Arbitration Boss that scales every rotation. Doesn't affect enemies, just full blast boss on ever rotation and it scales insanely too. How about that. As I said no need to complicate it. SIMPLE!

[Knight_Ex]

So instead of reverting the stupid changes they made in Arbs they decided lets just fix the token bug, jesus, DE WE WANT THE DAMNED THING REMOVED, you literally killed the one mode that was even a little bit fun for those that were far into the game to make it casual friendly, I think at this point I'm done, I don't know who you guys have that actually go over the information, but I really want to see where people asked for an slapped together Index/revive system, because the most complaint Ive seen is people losing their rewards for leaving Arbs,  Ok maybe its a hard concept to grasp I dunno, but some of us are not keen on reviving teammates if they are nothing but dead weight, you die in the first few waves of Defense due to your lack of preperation or gear then thats YOUR problem, forcing a mechanic that drags people down because of a single player is BS, and its only made more people to switch to solo tactics, so again, asking that you revert these god awful changes to save what little confidence that I have left with your judgement because at this point your "testing the waters" is only enraging some of us that have nothing really left to do in warframe.   But oh no we gotta bend a knee to the casual players, we need to make it so everyone either comes out or falls together.  Yeah well I'm the tenno that will stab you through the ribbcage from behind if I think your going to be a hinderence to the team..

[(XBOX)Nightseid]

I'm commenting on this thread as it's one of the better rework suggestions threads for abritrations. 

Anyways, I recently had a thought about arbitrations and re-thought my previous post on Arbs...

So I was thinking instead of combining it with elite sanctuary,  what if arbs was instead reworked to be the new 8 person trials. Think about it. The biggest allure of the trials were the 8 person squads, and the high level enemies and missions. This could help separate Arbs from feeling/playing like every endless mission we currently have.

Some mission maps would not work so they may need to be reworked or DE could instead opt to design a unique endless mission map with 8 player squads in mind and not make it invite only parties like what happen to the original trials.

 

Edited May 6, 2019 by (XB1)Nightseid