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(XB1)Cheeseburger377

Can we please have manual blocking back

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1 minute ago, Limbo_Darkness said:

Same here, imo the Melee 2.9 changes ruined the best parts about melee for all players.

No, I like most of melee 2.9. 

However, I do greatly prefer manual blocking over the current system, so I'd like that back.

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Well, you CAN manual block if you only bring a melee weapon into a mission. But yeah, it would be nice to have manual blocking back.

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55 minutes ago, Limbo_Darkness said:

Same here, imo the Melee 2.9 changes ruined the best parts about melee for all players.

Blocking is not that important. Why block when you can just bullet jump on the enemy and smack him with a sword? 2.9 makes melee faster to use and keeps the flow of combat going

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Manual blocking is about a lot more than just what it seems. Manual blocking is tied to 'Blockgliding'(Aimgliding for the normies), and this single mechanic is absolutely CORE for mid-air melee fighting and parkour. Blockgliding allows me to control the height of my jumps and all of my mid-air inputs. Mid-air melee doesn't exist without RMB Blockglide.

I play Melee-Only 100% of the time now, unless I'm leveling a gun on Hydron for MR. It hurts my brain that so many newbs, that don't have any advanced knowledge of parkour, come to DE's defense about this topic. "BUT ANGLED SLAMS AND MORE PARTICLES!"

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2 hours ago, Limbo_Darkness said:

Same here, imo the Melee 2.9 changes ruined the best parts about melee for all players.

Hardly, it's just an advanced and better version of quick melee as now you can get combo's up and quickly return to shooting.

Only common complaint I keep seeeing (and understand and agree with) is the lack of a block button, mainly for those combo's as at the moment, it's works a bit oddly and not as fluent as the rest of the system.

Just wish DE would hurry up and just bring it back into the game to ease these complaints.

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No, god! No, god, please no! No! No! Nooo!

There's no reason not to block, so there's no reason to make you press a button to do it. The only change needed is for auto-block to not interrupt things you did actually press a button to do.

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4 hours ago, Limbo_Darkness said:

Same here, imo the Melee 2.9 changes ruined the best parts about melee for all players.

You ≠ All player

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4 hours ago, (XB1)The Neko Otaku said:

Blocking is not that important. Why block when you can just bullet jump on the enemy and smack him with a sword? 2.9 makes melee faster to use and keeps the flow of combat going

You're missing both of the important points about manual blocking.

1. You used it for melee aimglide, which gave you a great FOV and, more importantly, allowed you to aimglide while your Exalted weapon was out without putting it away. The autoswap in general is also why the update trashed Valkyr: she's both less mobile and liable to pop like a soapbubble if you ever accidentally click aim (which is a near-certainty for anyone working against years of muscle memory).

2. IT WAS GORRAM MANUAL. As in, a conscious decision to interrupt whatever you were doing to block. The new system automatically interrupts whatever you happen to be doing (like, say, recasting a vital defensive ability or going through a lengthy melee combo chain) to block incoming fire.

 

And no, 2.9 did not make melee faster to use. It slows down combat by forcing you to use the awkward, crappy, locked-in-place-and-on-the-ground melee stance animations instead of the generally fluid quick melee animations that at least retained some forward momentum and which could be performed at any time and place. All that 2.9 accomplished was forcing anyone who wanted to use melee to only play spin2win maiming strike builds or Exalted Blade because everything else is garbage now. Guandao used to be my favorite melee weapon and I haven't touched it since 2.9 because the stance animations are so awful in comparison to the quick melee animation.

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2 hours ago, SordidDreams said:

No, god! No, god, please no! No! No! Nooo!

There's no reason not to block, so there's no reason to make you press a button to do it. The only change needed is for auto-block to not interrupt things you did actually press a button to do.

Electromagnetic Shielding and Guardian Derision are good reasons to not block at certain times and to require the complete control of blocking to remain manual. It's almost as if you haven't thoroughly played the game.

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14 minutes ago, FlyingDice said:

And no, 2.9 did not make melee faster to use. It slows down combat by forcing you to use the awkward, crappy, locked-in-place-and-on-the-ground melee stance animations instead of the generally fluid quick melee animations that at least retained some forward momentum and which could be performed at any time and place. All that 2.9 accomplished was forcing anyone who wanted to use melee to only play spin2win maiming strike builds or Exalted Blade because everything else is garbage now. Guandao used to be my favorite melee weapon and I haven't touched it since 2.9 because the stance animations are so awful in comparison to the quick melee animation.

Why do people keep saying they're locked place when meleeing with 2.9?, I can sprint and melee through misssions just fine i never gotten "locked in place" with this new system.

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25 minutes ago, xZeromusx said:

Electromagnetic Shielding and Guardian Derision are good reasons to not block at certain times and to require the complete control of blocking to remain manual. It's almost as if you haven't thoroughly played the game.

I’d love to see how popular those two mods are in your average player’s melee build. Personally I doubt they are used by the wide majority of players, as most late-game content revolves around killing enemies as fast as possible rather then attempting to “tank”.

In my opinion manual blocking was only useful for air control. Parrying is extremely inconsistent, and not worth building for as it relies on waiting for a single enemy to attack you in a game about mass-killing groups. Reflecting damage via channeled blocking was also next to useless when enemy ehp far outscales their damage. Finally the damage reduction of blocking itself varies from weapon to weapon, thus rendering it unreliable when you could simply use rolls and mobility instead.

If DE does bring manual blocking back, I would hope they would attempt to actually make it useful in more circumstances. The proposed change of blocking adding to the combo counter would be a decent step as long as they don’t ignore the other issues with the system.

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13 minutes ago, OmegaZero said:

I’d love to see how popular those two mods are in your average player’s melee build. Personally I doubt they are used by the wide majority of players, as most late-game content revolves around killing enemies as fast as possible rather then attempting to “tank”.

In my opinion manual blocking was only useful for air control. Parrying is extremely inconsistent, and not worth building for as it relies on waiting for a single enemy to attack you in a game about mass-killing groups. Reflecting damage via channeled blocking was also next to useless when enemy ehp far outscales their damage. Finally the damage reduction of blocking itself varies from weapon to weapon, thus rendering it unreliable when you could simply use rolls and mobility instead.

If DE does bring manual blocking back, I would hope they would attempt to actually make it useful in more circumstances. The proposed change of blocking adding to the combo counter would be a decent step as long as they don’t ignore the other issues with the system.

Guardian Derision was actually pretty useful paired with Rage or Hunter Adrenaline if you didn't want to go Zenurik or if you're using channeled abilities that make most other forms of energy recovery useless. I think it was Rahetalius that also made note that CC itself is useless in the game, and indeed, damage is king, but there are also frames such as Chroma and Inaros and now Hildryn that do effectively work as tanks, and can pair decently well with defensive mods to guard glass cannons. Average player? Probably not. These are more specialized mods that have just effectively become useless now with 2.9 melee. They're a glaring testament to a system that has not been fully fleshed out. Them, plus the whole "implement an unfinished product" thing.

I do hope they bring back manual blocking AND make it more useful in more circumstances. However, they need to at least start by bringing back manual blocking.

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I dont use Guardian Derision to "tank" but I do use it to force enemies to attack me for rage/hunter adrenaline for my oberon build, as it stands now its all but useless because if enemies are ignoring me I cant make them attack me due to autoblocking not triggering or triggering unreliably. It and Electromagnetic shielding can also be useful in a pinch for taking heat off of defense targets and teammates who are reviving. While I dont imagine that many people use such mods that doesnt mean that they should be made effectively useless to push an undercooked change to a core system. I think DE would have given is an option in the menu to retain manual block if it wasnt for consoles not having enough buttons.

I like the changes for the most part, directional ground slam is a definite win, as is switching to melee quickly if you want to use combos but I think it was definitely rushed out because they were excited about it in house and because of the ever persistent demands for melee 3.0 to come out.

Personally I would like to see a toggle for manual block, and additionally I would like there to be an option to require a doubletap of melee to deploy then swing. While it has no negative gameplay effect to actually have to attack to bring out melee I would prefer to be able to tap it once to equip melee then tap again to attack if needed when not doing a ground slam, it would look much better that way.

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14 minutes ago, LordPantaloonsthe3rd said:

I dont use Guardian Derision to "tank" but I do use it to force enemies to attack me for rage/hunter adrenaline for my oberon build

As an Oberon main, same here.

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6 hours ago, Limbo_Darkness said:

Same here, imo the Melee 2.9 changes ruined the best parts about melee for all players.

For you maybe, but some people like it.

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1 hour ago, (XB1)The Neko Otaku said:

Why do people keep saying they're locked place when meleeing with 2.9?, I can sprint and melee through misssions just fine i never gotten "locked in place" with this new system.

because melee now forces you into your stance mods

 

If your stance mod controls your mobility like brutal tide or twirling spire then you are now stuck doing that instead of simply bopping your opponent and then moving on.

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1 hour ago, (XB1)The Neko Otaku said:

Why do people keep saying they're locked place when meleeing with 2.9?, I can sprint and melee through misssions just fine i never gotten "locked in place" with this new system.

Because you are, relative to quick melee (or, for that matter, slide attacks). Stance animations tend to be slower across the board, which means even just using the initial attack from any given stance will take noticeably longer than the equivalent quick melee. If you actually go into combos, you stop movement almost entirely, because you physically cannot intersperse them with movement in the manner possible with quick melee or slide attacks.

You seem to be confusing "you sometimes step or scoot forward a little bit with each attack" with being able to melee attack without interrupting the flow of speed-blitzing through map tiles. Quick melee was good because it was quick, you could pop out a single attack without hurting your movement much. Stance attacks were entirely disregarded (aside from a handful of situational things like Broken Bull and a few specific proc combos) because their initial attack animations were worse than quick melee and partial/full combos made you virtually stationary, not because you had to hold your weapon swap key to use them.

That you think about rapid movement in terms of sprinting does a lot to explain why you're confused about this, in fairness.

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I don't care about manual blocking, but it sure would be nice to be able to aim glide with my melee weapon out.

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I'm not entirely against Auto blocking.  But I do wonder the purpose of it.  Like the benefit we get from it.  The defense itself isn't super important unless you want to count that one niche build with guardian dursion/elctromagnetic shielding.  I think the real lose from manual blocking is from the fact that we cant aim glide with the melee anymore.  I think DE figured that wouldn't matter too much because you can instant swap to aim glide with your gun.  But that's a lil awkward.

Perhaps the same contextual input can exist for blocking so you can hold the button to aim glide.  But still not have manual block as a thing.  I mostly support the changes going on here.  I understand people's feelings about no more quick melee.  But to me quick melee was poorly done.  You didn't really use the weapon.  You just used a stat stick.  So i'm glad that's gone.

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