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"You only need to do 65 percent of the challenge to complete Nightwave" means 65 percent of returning players are effectively screwed.


NaoEthelia
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30 minutes ago, Firedtm said:

Oh god please no, they do not need to reward snowflakes, there is such a thing called earning a reward with hard work or dedication.

I played only a hour every day with maybe two to four hours on the weekend, and still got to level 30 in the Nightwave.

not everyone should get rewarded for just logging in, nor should people get rewarded for afking through a event, and than coming in at only the end, and getting everything the event has to offer.

Riddle me this, if you need to earn Nightwave standing to unlock the rewards........ how are they not earning the rewards when they earn the standing. Regardless of when they do it. 

Doesn't matter when you earned it as long as it is at some point during the event, the bottom line is that you earned it. People keep seemingly willfully glazing past the fact that if you come in late you still have to EARN the standing to EARN the rewards. It isn't like people are proposing that they just magically get awarded the standing for the weeks they missed without any effort, regardless of how some people seem to be trying to contort it. 

And if we're talking dedication, what about all those people popping into the forums to say, "Whelp got my Armor, now I'm taking a vacation from Warframe until next season" That doesn't exactly sound like "dedication", Warframe doesn't just vanish cause you finished an event. Does that mean that they don't deserve the rewards?  

 

There is no reason for the event to lock people out of any tier of reward until the last second of the last day when it ends. Until that point there is no reason people shouldn't be able to retroactively EARN the points from the challenges of previous weeks. 

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7 hours ago, Elyann said:

So what ? Let's screw 95% of the playerbase because the 5% composed by tryhards wants to feel rewarded and for things to be exclusive so they can show off ?
Hmmm....sounds like how the real world works. Nah, thanks. I think I'll pass and prefer this game to keep on being more casual friendly.

they already said everything will return at some point, no "exclusives" here

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10 minutes ago, Oreades said:

There is no reason for the event to lock people out of any tier of reward until the last second of the last day when it ends. Until that point there is no reason people shouldn't be able to retroactively EARN the points from the challenges of previous weeks. 

You are discussion an entirely different solution than what @Firedtm was responding to. Firedtm was saying that no, he/she doesn't want season 1 to still be accessibly when we're all the way into season 20. You are arguing on behalf of allowing players to do week 1 challenges during the last week of the same season. That's a completely different approach. And for the record, I agree (as posted above) and I don't see the harm in all challenges remaining open until the end of the season. I do, however, agree with Firedtm that older seasons shouldn't be kept open indefinitely and forever.

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10 hours ago, NaoEthelia said:

Having to do only 65% of the challenges effectively means that if any returning players have passed the 35% leeway, which in this case means Week 5 - Week 10, they are effectively screwed over. The slight deadline expansion is good to have as it extends the deadline to roughly Week 12, which reduces the minimal requirement to 55% of all challenges, but the numbers are still not good. It still means that roughly 55% of returning player (which in this case Week 6 - Week 12) are effectively too late to join. Nightwave as it is, is currently hostile towards long-term returning players, the very playerbase that you want to keep, and you don't want to screw them over, do you?

Let's fix that.

Why?  In game rewards have always rewarded current active players.  And that is not a statement about Waframe, but nearly every game out there that is online.  Why should this change now?  That would require a Major not Minor rework of how NightWave currently works.

The player base that DE constantly seems to cater to are those of the hard core active players, not the new players or casuals.  So, returning players are not their target.

If you want to cry about "fairness" then how would you propose that people not around for start be able to acquire Excal Prime then?  As that would fall in the same vein of fairness.  Which if you follow DE, you know, Excal Prime isn't going to be released.

 

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ITT: procrastinators in video games. My experience with battle passes on ANY games I've played only allow you to get X amount of points/rewards per day/week; in none of these games could someone just be lazy and wait til the last minute to get everything done. And no games I know of have to deal with whiny babbies trying to make the company change how they do something entirely just so their entitled asses can get stuff they should've been working towards ages ago. The deadline has already been extended for this event, stop crying. If the returnees really cared about the rewards, they would have returned sooner, when the deadline was even closer.

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If you really really want rewards and your late. Do all the weekly events, start a level 60 bounty in POE or Fortuna and farm the cons every 10 min for 300.

you missed a lot so ya you need to work extra hard for the same stuff. It sucks but if your dedicated you can do it.

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well i guess you cant get everything, i believe these nightwaves will be on a rotation (just a guess, not confirmed by DE afaik). i mean i have been away for atleast a year and probablu missed stuff but that is life, you cant have everything. (and yes im like lvl 8 on nightwave so i wont get anywhere near of all rewards from it). more effort=more rewards

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20 hours ago, DrBorris said:

This just in folks, people who don't play a game don't get rewards for playing said game. We got some crazy developers over here, rewarding loyal players, we can't have any of that.

Exactly. People who don't play a game don't get rewards for playing said game. By making Nightwave series permanent, players still need to be loyal to their game playing for 6-8 weeks to reach rank 29 or 30.

See? Still rewarding for loyal players. I don't get why it's not. It's win-win. 🙂

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20 hours ago, iG4B3 said:

How on Earth do you come to that conclusion?

If Nightwave is permanent, as in, not limited by the time of the series, then ANYONE will be able to get to the max rank, eventually.
The point of those rewards is that everyone willing to do 65% of the content EVERY SINGLE WEEK are the only ones that should be able to get it.

Yes, if they made Nightwave permanent, it's still gonna be everyone willing to do 65% of the content every single week are the only ones that should be able to get it. Permanent series won't change that. 🙂

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1 minute ago, NaoEthelia said:

Exactly. People who don't play a game don't get rewards for playing said game. By making Nightwave series permanent, players still need to be loyal to their game playing for 6-8 weeks to reach rank 29 or 30.

See? Still rewarding for loyal players. I don't get why it's not. It's win-win. 🙂

Okay, stop for a second and think through all of the ramifications of what you suggest. I really hate this "it would be so easy, just do this" type posts because, spoiler alert, designing game systems is anything but easy.

 

So, let's say that Nightwave is "permanent". Okay, so now how do you expand on Nightwave? How will a second season work?

Two solutions I see...

First is to have them 'overlap'. In this case if you start playing at whatever time the second Nightwave is released you will be progressing two Nightwaves at the same time, making your time spent literally twice as efficient as those who played the first season "on time". Now you are effectively encouraging people to not keep up with Warframe because their time will be better spent if they wait. In addition, this holds back story progression. As it stands Nightwave slowly unfolds, in this case you would have to keep Nightwave stories completely independent, hamstringing where you can go with the story.

Second solution would be to have Nightwaves sequential, in this case you would have to finish the first Nightwave in order to start the second. I'd like to think the problem here is pretty obvious, imagine someone starts playing when Nightwave three is new and shiny. Well, if there is some new reward/mechanic in that Nightwave it sucks for them, they have to grind through season one and two first.

 

Maybe it would work, there could be some other options I have not thought of yet (there most certainly are things I have not thought of yet), I am not saying it is impossible, but pretending that it is easy or a win-win is a gross overstatement and almost an insult to the intelligence of the developers. If an idea seems so obvious that you can't believe no one has thought of it yet, chances are it is because you haven't figured out the problem yet.

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I don't get how people don't have the very low time required to do Nightwave each week, but somehow have plenty of time to complain on forums. Nightwave takes less time than complaining on forums do. You don't have to play daily, the majority of "challenges" could be completed in a single day (some even in a single mission), and the dailies stack up for a couple days before one expires, allowing you to just finish all the dailies and weeklies in two days of each week.

The number of people that have legitimate reasons for being unable to play are an extreme minority. You choosing to play another game [or insert any other form of entertainment] and missing out is not DE's fault. If you cared for rewards you could spend the less than one minute each week to check on updates.

If you don't play often, Umbra forma is useless. The wolf cosmetics are just cosmetics, and realistically, isn't going to be used by most people; and the mods are for weapons most people don't care about. "I don't have time to play, but I have time to complain about how I 'can't' get stuff I don't need and won't use".

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1 hour ago, Yamazuki said:

I don't get how people don't have the very low time required to do Nightwave each week, but somehow have plenty of time to complain on forums. Nightwave takes less time than complaining on forums do. You don't have to play daily, the majority of "challenges" could be completed in a single day (some even in a single mission), and the dailies stack up for a couple days before one expires, allowing you to just finish all the dailies and weeklies in two days of each week.

The number of people that have legitimate reasons for being unable to play are an extreme minority. You choosing to play another game [or insert any other form of entertainment] and missing out is not DE's fault. If you cared for rewards you could spend the less than one minute each week to check on updates.

If you don't play often, Umbra forma is useless. The wolf cosmetics are just cosmetics, and realistically, isn't going to be used by most people; and the mods are for weapons most people don't care about. "I don't have time to play, but I have time to complain about how I 'can't' get stuff I don't need and won't use".

Answer is very simple. I am not one of those people. I simply listened to their (DE's) wish to have a lifetime relationship with their players, to have ones that keep on coming back, to also allow them to take a break occasionally (take a look at Mogamu interview). The change I propose are the ones that would better fulfill those wishes. 🙂

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23 hours ago, Mez999 said:

This thread reads more like “I’ve missed the start so DE should extend it because I want the rewards”. 

Whilst they’re at it, why not make all events permanent? 

Nobody is getting screwed over. It’s been heavily advertised and any player who was following the game slightly would’ve seen it and had the choice to jump in early. If someone is returning now that’s their personal issue and not one that DE nor those of us who have grinded the rewards should compensate for. 

Correct! That's what I am imposing. 🙂

It is their (DE's) wish to have a lifetime relationship with players, who would keep coming back, who would be allowed to take occasional break from the game. What I suggested is simply to better welcome those lifetime players.

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1 minute ago, NaoEthelia said:

Correct! That's what I am imposing. 🙂

It is their (DE's) wish to have a lifetime relationship with players, who would keep coming back, who would be allowed to take occasional break from the game. What I suggested is simply to better welcome those lifetime players.

Having a lifetime relationship with players who apparently rarely play will not be at the cost of players who actually play the game. They're not gonna suck up to people who don't benefit them. They're a business, and catering to people who want to play the game as little as possible and still get everything is not the way to run a business. It'll also kill the VAST majority of the community's opinions of them.

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14 hours ago, Firedtm said:

Oh god please no, they do not need to reward snowflakes, there is such a thing called earning a reward with hard work or dedication.

I played only a hour every day with maybe two to four hours on the weekend, and still got to level 30 in the Nightwave.

not everyone should get rewarded for just logging in, nor should people get rewarded for afking through a event, and than coming in at only the end, and getting everything the event has to offer.

But nothing will change by making nightwave permanent!

Even if it is permanent, people wouldn't get rewarded for logging in, AFKing, and coming back at the end, and getting everything the event has to offer. Returning players still have to work hard and have dedication to grind for 6-8 weeks to catch up to the last rank of the current Series as the next Series progresses. 🙂

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2 minutes ago, NaoEthelia said:

But nothing will change by making nightwave permanent!

Even if it is permanent, people wouldn't get rewarded for logging in, AFKing, and coming back at the end, and getting everything the event has to offer. Returning players still have to work hard and have dedication to grind for 6-8 weeks to catch up to the last rank of the current Series as the next Series progresses. 🙂

Welcome to the world of battle passes. Play constantly or don't expect to get the higher tier stuff.

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3 minutes ago, The_Hanky_Panky said:

Having a lifetime relationship with players who apparently rarely play will not be at the cost of players who actually play the game. They're not gonna suck up to people who don't benefit them. They're a business, and catering to people who want to play the game as little as possible and still get everything is not the way to run a business. It'll also kill the VAST majority of the community's opinions of them.

I apologize, but I do not see how the change I proposed in OP would discriminate against fully active players. It is the usual business for you lovely players who support DE, to work hard with dedication as usual to get rewards, while those who joined later, either returning or new will have to work extra hard. 🙂

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20 hours ago, MagPrime said:

Like I said, the game isn't friendly to players who don't want to put in effort. 

 

21 hours ago, R.O.G.U.E. said:

There ain't no such thing as a free lunch. Just saying.

 

But making Nightwave series permanent would not make any difference, though.

Even if it was permanent, players would still need to put in the effort, and they would not get a free lunch without truly dedicating yourself for it for 6-7 weeks. You would get your lunch for your work, while those who joined later, be it new players or returning players would have to work even harder to catch up! 🙂

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40 minutes ago, NaoEthelia said:

 

 

But making Nightwave series permanent would not make any difference, though.

Even if it was permanent, players would still need to put in the effort, and they would not get a free lunch without truly dedicating yourself for it for 6-7 weeks. You would get your lunch for your work, while those who joined later, be it new players or returning players would have to work even harder to catch up! 🙂

First off, a lot of why people are bashing said NW complainers, is the missions are incredibly easy. I could do every single nightwave mission for the entire season in the course of a few hours. Halfo f those hours spent just on the hour-long-survival missions. Half of the missions are completed litearlly by playing the game, not needing to do anything special.

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53 minutes ago, NaoEthelia said:

I apologize, but I do not see how the change I proposed in OP would discriminate against fully active players. It is the usual business for you lovely players who support DE, to work hard with dedication as usual to get rewards, while those who joined later, either returning or new will have to work extra hard. 🙂

If you've ever played literally any online multiplayer game before with an event, you'd know that the events are timed. You're either there for them, or you're not. Just consider yourself lucky they even rerun events sometimes, or recirculate the weapons back into the game. Warframe doesn't have to bend over backwards to appeal to a small amount of players like this. Also, I never said it discriminates against active players. It just kills our motivation to STAY active if we can just screw off to another game and come back in a few weeks to clear everything in 1 swoop.

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23 hours ago, (PS4)ErydisTheLucario said:

You're absolutely mad if you think we are gonna farm fugitives for standing.

Someone got rank 30 in nightwave long before DE intended anyone to I bet. They just AFK'ed in Orb Vallis and waited for fugitives to spawn, capped and repeat. 

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57 minutes ago, NaoEthelia said:

 

 

But making Nightwave series permanent would not make any difference, though.

Even if it was permanent, players would still need to put in the effort, and they would not get a free lunch without truly dedicating yourself for it for 6-7 weeks. You would get your lunch for your work, while those who joined later, be it new players or returning players would have to work even harder to catch up! 🙂

This is how I know you aren't understanding what's being posted.

We are in series 1.  The first series.  Nightwave is staying, the tiers are staying, the reward mechanic is staying, Nora is staying, the only thing that is changing (as far as we know) will be the flavor of the series villain, the rewards rotate.  That's it.  Returning players will be able to get as far as they can in series 1 and then enjoy series 2, 3, 4, etc. they just wont be doing series 1 after the 15th.

You're suggesting we keep the Saturn Six prisoners as is, static, stagnant, never changing.  That is clearly something the players don't want, and since DE put in the time and effort to make Nightwave, the Dev's don't want it either.

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